Tech in the new Marine Book?

[ShadowLogan]

All current indications are the Marines will use material from the Imai files that contain a lot of OSM pre-production material. So it is unlikely the VHT will get touched upon.

That said, even if the VHT does get an update of some type that would not invalidate the bulk of your efforts. All it likely would require is a little bit of tweaking to fit in w/the new material. The ASC has two VHT types in service that we know about, so there is no real reason they or the UEEF can't have additional types.

[Seto Kaiba]

is there any rumors (official or just speculation) on what the new mecha will be in the marine book?

As ShadowLogan said, thus far all that's been announced about the Marine book's contents is that the book will be adapting (rejected) Genesis Climber MOSPEADA concept art found in the "Imai Files".

[...] is there any possibility of there being an 'official' update of the hovertank that might make our efforts wasted?

Er... agh, how do I put this?

While such a thing is not necessarily impossible, for various reasons it is extremely unlikely to be included in the books. Apart from the book's focus reportedly being rejected MOSPEADA art, there's a strong argument against it in that the post-reboot Robotech universe seems to have removed any non-MOSPEADA designs from the UEEF inventory. The Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles limited comic revisited a bunch of scenes from the last issue of the Robotech II: the Sentinels comics, updating the aesthetics to the new uniforms and replacing the VF-1's and Spartas units the UEEF had in the old comics with Cyclones, Alphas, and infantry. The way the current edition of the RPG has worded some of their fluff, the UEDF basically developed its own uniforms, equipment, and mecha separately from what the UEEF used, with no sharing between the two branches.

a friend and i got together and updated the Hovertank for our game (we took the idea of it being a new take on an old tech as a response for the loss of the Synchro cannons.) it's a Grav tank now as opposed to a hover, and incorporates very different tech

That particular modification probably wouldn't make it... they toyed with the idea of a "hover-cyclone", but never went anywhere with it in RTSC.

[Seto Kaiba]

cool, personally i LOVE tanks (was never happy with the Sparta for many reasons...but the biggest being it wasn't really a tank...it was mobile artillery...the pilot was TOTALLY exposed in 2 of it's 3 combat modes!) which is why I wanted to do an update

Well, to be entirely fair... the ATAC · 01-SCA "Spartas" makes for a pretty poor tank, which is probably why it wasn't actually classified as a tank in the original Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. The label it originally wore was that of a self-propelled artillery piece-slash-combat hovercraft. None of its modes is ever called "tank", though the mode names for all of the mecha in that series were a little "out there". (No joking, its mode names were "Sniping Clapper", "Walking Cannon", and "Battle Sniper".)

You probably won't find anything resembling a tank in the Marines book if it's drawing on the Imai Files, those old rejected designs are mostly just non-transforming humanoid robots, almost all of which are a bit topheavy and ill-proportioned. There is one that looks like the "Walking Cannon" mode of the Spartas, but it also isn't transformable. Smart money says we'll see the Golem (a less ugly Condor predecessor), the Type-99 (think the ugly love child of a Condor and a Macross Phalanx destroid), the inexplicable "Wolf" chicken-walker troop transport, the Tiger artillery unit, and maybe the Daniel multiped gun platform (which also leaves its pilot exposed, but at least has a roll cage).

[glitterboy2098]

i'm not sure what they were thinking with that 'wolf' mecha... but the 'Daniel' i think you could salvage as a non-combat mecha (like say a mobile crane) modified to carry a weapon-pod instead.

and the 'golem' would need renamed, to avoid a conflict with the ASC AI controlled security mecha

and looking at the IMAI filesstuff, i'd suspect some of the alpha derived stuff might make an appearance as non-transforming mecha.
and some of those unused cyclone concepts might make an appearance (if not as full cyclone, perhaps as the non-transforming powered armors Kevin S. talked about him the updates..)

[mech798]

cool, personally i LOVE tanks (was never happy with the Sparta for many reasons...but the biggest being it wasn't really a tank...it was mobile artillery...the pilot was TOTALLY exposed in 2 of it's 3 combat modes!) which is why I wanted to do an update

Well, to be entirely fair... the ATAC · 01-SCA "Spartas" makes for a pretty poor tank, which is probably why it wasn't actually classified as a tank in the original Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. The label it originally wore was that of a self-propelled artillery piece-slash-combat hovercraft. None of its modes is ever called "tank", though the mode names for all of the mecha in that series were a little "out there". (No joking, its mode names were "Sniping Clapper", "Walking Cannon", and "Battle Sniper".)

You probably won't find anything resembling a tank in the Marines book if it's drawing on the Imai Files, those old rejected designs are mostly just non-transforming humanoid robots, almost all of which are a bit topheavy and ill-proportioned. There is one that looks like the "Walking Cannon" mode of the Spartas, but it also isn't transformable. Smart money says we'll see the Golem (a less ugly Condor predecessor), the Type-99 (think the ugly love child of a Condor and a Macross Phalanx destroid), the inexplicable "Wolf" chicken-walker troop transport, the Tiger artillery unit, and maybe the Daniel multiped gun platform (which also leaves its pilot exposed, but at least has a roll cage).

one hopes they have more than that-- the Imai files are very light as you've pointed out and if that's it, then this may very well be the last robotech book I buy.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If any new vehicles I would expect the Horizon-V dropship (page 114 "TheArt of RT:SC") or the Cursader armored transatmospheric transport (page 104-105 mounted on the Pioneer's sides). Or maybe the Beta section of the Super Shadow Fighter (page 85) stat'ed out.

[Tiree]

If the Hovertank will be modified, I expect it will have minimal modifications and a change to the fuel source to p-cells.

[ShadowLogan]

cool, personally i LOVE tanks (was never happy with the Sparta for many reasons...but the biggest being it wasn't really a tank...it was mobile artillery...the pilot was TOTALLY exposed in 2 of it's 3 combat modes!) which is why I wanted to do an update

It might be better to think of the VHT-1 and VHT-2 as being more like WW2 Tank Destroyers, than modern day Main Battle Tanks or possibly even mobile artillery. WW2 Tank Destroyers actually have a lot of the traits one finds on the VHT-1/2 that people find objectionable (open cockpit, lack of turret). however the concept appears to have fallen to the wayside after WW2.

If any new vehicles I would expect the Horizon-V dropship (page 114 "TheArt of RT:SC") or the Cursader armored transatmospheric transport (page 104-105 mounted on the Pioneer's sides). Or maybe the Beta section of the Super Shadow Fighter (page 85) stat'ed out.

Given we haven't seen stats for the Alpha section of the SSF AFAIK, I don't think we'll see any for the Beta. However, the SSF is a Fast-Pack system anyway for either unit so its more likely an entry if it gets in (I don't think it will) it would resemble the VF-1 armor add-ons or the ASC add-ons for the battloids. The Beta is likely the easiest to work out from AoTSC, unlike the Alpha.

There is one that looks like the "Walking Cannon" mode of the Spartas, but it also isn't transformable.

If it looks like the Gladiator mode of the VHTs, then it should in theory be possible to make it into a Veritech much easier. Really getting VHT/ground vehicles out of the nt-battloids is likely easier than getting a VF/aircraft out of them.

Smart money says we'll see the Golem (a less ugly Condor predecessor), the Type-99 (think the ugly love child of a Condor and a Macross Phalanx destroid), the inexplicable "Wolf" chicken-walker troop transport, the Tiger artillery unit, and maybe the Daniel multiped gun platform (which also leaves its pilot exposed, but at least has a roll cage).

The Tiger would seem a very safe bet since it's been used in the L&W comics as a back ground filler, much like how it gave us the VHT-2. To bad the cover art doesn't include some teasers for new mecha, its all established designs (Beta, Cyclones, Alphas).

[Seto Kaiba]

one hopes they have more than that-- the Imai files are very light as you've pointed out and if that's it, then this may very well be the last robotech book I buy.

Well, you have to remember... the so-called "Imai Files" is a collection of preproduction art that was a mix of both early design drafts and rejected concept art. In terms of never-before-seen mechanical designs, there's not much there to exploit. Most of it is rejected early designs for the Ride Armor (RT: "Cyclone") and Legioss (RT: "Alpha fighter")... things like hovercraft-bikes, non-transforming versions of the Ride Armor system, and some breathtakingly ugly and awkward-looking early iterations of the Vector, and the booster system that did eventually evolve into the TLEAD (RT: "Beta").

If we limit it to just those designs that actually fit the MOSPEADA aesthetic, they've got maybe a dozen new designs to play with, and a few minor armament variations for the bikes.

[Chris0013]

I really just wish they would say what new mecha.

[Seto Kaiba]

I really just wish they would say what new mecha.

It'd be nice, but since they're almost certainly going to rename everything anyway it wouldn't actually tell us anything.

[Chris0013]

I really just wish they would say what new mecha.

It'd be nice, but since they're almost certainly going to rename everything anyway it wouldn't actually tell us anything.

If the MOSPEADA Destroids (cougar, boxer, tiger, etc...) just say that they will be in the book.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If any new vehicles I would expect the Horizon-V dropship (page 114 "TheArt of RT:SC") or the Cursader armored transatmospheric transport (page 104-105 mounted on the Pioneer's sides). Or maybe the Beta section of the Super Shadow Fighter (page 85) stat'ed out.

Given we haven't seen stats for the Alpha section of the SSF AFAIK, I don't think we'll see any for the Beta. However, the SSF is a Fast-Pack system anyway for either unit so its more likely an entry if it gets in (I don't think it will) it would resemble the VF-1 armor add-ons or the ASC add-ons for the battloids. The Beta is likely the easiest to work out from AoTSC, unlike the Alpha.

As presented in the RT:TSC movie the beta portion of a "Super Shadow Fighter" is just a SAP pack for the alpha. *shrugs*

[jedi078]

I made a UEEF variant of the Spartas hover tank. Basically it has a fully enclosed cockpit, vernier thusters for added maneuverability in zero/low G environments, and a UEEF weapons fit.

[ShadowLogan]

If any new vehicles I would expect the Horizon-V dropship (page 114 "TheArt of RT:SC") or the Cursader armored transatmospheric transport (page 104-105 mounted on the Pioneer's sides). Or maybe the Beta section of the Super Shadow Fighter (page 85) stat'ed out.

Given we haven't seen stats for the Alpha section of the SSF AFAIK, I don't think we'll see any for the Beta. However, the SSF is a Fast-Pack system anyway for either unit so its more likely an entry if it gets in (I don't think it will) it would resemble the VF-1 armor add-ons or the ASC add-ons for the battloids. The Beta is likely the easiest to work out from AoTSC, unlike the Alpha.

As presented in the RT:TSC movie the beta portion of a "Super Shadow Fighter" is just a SAP pack for the alpha. *shrugs*

Actually that is one way to describe the Beta from the series itself. The Super Shadow Fighter elements on the Alpha and Beta BOTH come down to the use of FAST-Packs on both elements, so basically the Alpha gets a Fast Pack from the Beta, then another two sets for each element to make the Super Alpha & Beta (they essentially are not shadow fighters given they lack the haydonite shadow device).

[gaby]

Maybe ther will be Better Dropship and Bording craft.
I want some thing that can reality look like it can re-entre the atmospare.

[Seto Kaiba]

As presented in the RT:TSC movie the beta portion of a "Super Shadow Fighter" is just a SAP pack for the alpha. *shrugs*

That ain't just in RTSC... that's every Beta except the one Scott's merry band had.

Maybe ther will be Better Dropship and Bording craft.
I want some thing that can reality look like it can re-entre the atmospare.

Up the wrong tree you surely do bark... the Crusader dropships are bricks, and the Horizon-V has an utterly pointless forward-swept wing that would make it even worse at cargo hauling than the Horizon-T of the original series.

[Chris0013]

As presented in the RT:TSC movie the beta portion of a "Super Shadow Fighter" is just a SAP pack for the alpha. *shrugs*

That ain't just in RTSC... that's every Beta except the one Scott's merry band had.

That has always been something that irked me about the series...the Beta is a pretty good fighter in it's own right (Rand got the first kill on an RCB in it and Scott got shot down in his Alpha and came back in the Beta to take Corg)....but it was almost always relegated to a booster/extra jet for the 4th member of the team.

Until they get to NYC and we start seeing it come into it's own.

[Seto Kaiba]

That has always been something that irked me about the series...the Beta is a pretty good fighter in it's own right [...] but it was almost always relegated to a booster/extra jet for the 4th member of the team.

There's actually a good reason for that.

The TLEAD, which Robotech fans know as the Beta, was a relatively late addition to the series concept made at the insistence of the show's toy partner. Macross had exploded onto the scene and made big money on transforming VF-1 toys, so MOSPEADA's creators came under pressure from the show's toy line partner to try and get a slice of that market for themselves. So the Legioss (RT: "Alpha) got promoted from background mecha to a front-and-center main mecha alongside (and often eclipsing) the titular bikes, while its non-transformable "Span Loader" booster system ended up being rethought and reworked into the AB-01 TLEAD armo-bomber.

The reason that the TLEAD/Beta is almost always relegated to puttering around in the background is that it wasn't really meant to be there. It was added to the series late in development to meet the demands their toy line's manufacturer made for more transforming fighter toys, in the name of grabbing a piece of the big sales Takatoku's Macross "kanzen henkai" VF-1 was enjoying. But for a few scenes added to give the TLEAD exposure, it sort of lurked in the background because a lot of the story had been planned before the TLEAD's inclusion.

[mech798]

That seems to explain why the two ships seem so unbalanced when attached to each other.

[Seto Kaiba]

That seems to explain why the two ships seem so unbalanced when attached to each other.

Eh... not s'much. The final design for the AB-01 TLEAD is actually a fair bit smaller than most versions of the older, non-variable "Span Loader" booster system concept. With the Span Loader (Concord Type), the Super Vector (what they called the early version of the Legioss, back when the project was called Descent Soldier Vector) was a whopping 21m long and 22m wide, while the Legioss + TLEAD configuration from the series was only about 19m long and 18m wide. Other versions of the Span Loader were even bigger, but they were nowhere near as tall as the final TLEAD design. Except for stabilizers proportional to their massive wing area, they were about the same height as the Vector/Legioss airframe.

The weird proportions that make it seem so unbalanced look to come from one of the space booster sketches that showed the Legioss docked to something that looks like the unholy fusion of the Inbit Iigaa (RT: "Scout") booster and the engine array of an Ikazuchi space fortress carrier, where the Legioss is all but lost in all the mass of the booster (but they couldn't seem to decide how to connect it to the fighter, so there are three or four design studies out there showing it connected at the knees, or the shoulders).


*ponders this*

I wonder if they'll try to adopt the Span Loader under a less out-there name... though it will kind of make the Beta look like rubbish by comparison, both aesthetically in practically. (Let's just say, 20 solid meters of wing surface on which to hang bombs is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG step up.)

[glitterboy2098]

the 'span loader' ideas look to be about the same size as the ground-to-orbit booster used by the VF_1 in macross, so certainly the size isn't too bad. i could see both the atmospheric one (alpha in fighter mode, the booster with wings) and the space only one being used by the UEEF early on.. the winged one could be a drone kinda like the QF-3000 ghost, minimally armed, used purely to enable alpha's to be transatmospheric before the adoption of the Beta. i say a drone, so that when an alpha disconnects, the booster can fly back to the ship, or to base, and be reused. (unlike the VF-1's booster, which seems to just be abandoned in orbit)

the space only booster that is little more than a cluster of engines i could see as a unit used to give the Condor useful space flight capabilities.. it wouldn't be as good as a dedicated space fighter might be, but it would let Destroids like the Condor be employed as mobile defense for warships. we see the Condor using a set of smaller backpack boosters in the show and some of HG's original art, so the idea of it being able to hook up with a bigger one isn't too far fetched.

[Seto Kaiba]

the 'span loader' ideas look to be about the same size as the ground-to-orbit booster used by the VF_1 in macross, so certainly the size isn't too bad.

According to the size notations on the art itself, it's actually substantially larger... mostly because the VF-1's booster from Macross doesn't have wings, and the Span Loader has a 20 meter wingspan. The booster that evolved into the TLEAD design is closer in size.

[Seto Kaiba]

i could totally see (story wise) a whole new veritech or 2 come out to actually replace the Alpha and Beta...i mean in the canon the Alpha's design is what...30 years old? that has got to be nearing the end of it's lifespan.

Twenty-two years, as of the Battle of Reflex Point... they were canonically introduced in 2022, and served the UEEF as the main transformable fighter throughout their extrasolar operations. There's some concept art out there for a VF-13 Gamma Fighter, which was originally slated to be a new fighter introduced in the Shadow Chronicles movie before it was dropped in favor of the more Macross-y Super Shadow Fighter. They don't appear to have ever gotten further than a rough concept though, since it's pretty much a version of the Convert (RT: "Conbat") that can transform.

It's doubtful they'd put a new fighter out there in the Marines book though, since that's going backwards in time (thanks to no forward motion from RT) to around the period where the Alpha was relatively new.

[glitterboy2098]

maybe we'll get the YF-4? or they'll use one of the "vector" ideas from the IMAI files to give us a new alpha model?

[mech798]

i could totally see (story wise) a whole new veritech or 2 come out to actually replace the Alpha and Beta...i mean in the canon the Alpha's design is what...30 years old? that has got to be nearing the end of it's lifespan.

Twenty-two years, as of the Battle of Reflex Point... they were canonically introduced in 2022, and served the UEEF as the main transformable fighter throughout their extrasolar operations. There's some concept art out there for a VF-13 Gamma Fighter, which was originally slated to be a new fighter introduced in the Shadow Chronicles movie before it was dropped in favor of the more Macross-y Super Shadow Fighter. They don't appear to have ever gotten further than a rough concept though, since it's pretty much a version of the Convert (RT: "Conbat") that can transform.

It's doubtful they'd put a new fighter out there in the Marines book though, since that's going backwards in time (thanks to no forward motion from RT) to around the period where the Alpha was relatively new.

The thing is, the Marines would actually be a good choice to have some kind of "ground pounder" veritech-- a vehicle that while it can fly is more oriented towards ground/low altitude operations. I suppose the big question is are they allowed to create wholely new designs or are they restricted to things in the concept art/ HG productions.

[Seto Kaiba]

The thing is, the Marines would actually be a good choice to have some kind of "ground pounder" veritech-- a vehicle that while it can fly is more oriented towards ground/low altitude operations. [...]

Er... at the risk of pointing out an oversight, that's exactly what the Alpha and Beta are. The Alpha's a Strike Fighter, and the Beta's a fighter-bomber. It's right there in their designations. In fact, every fighter that the Robotech universe gets after the VF-1 is identified as being either for close air support or for attacker or bomber duty. Hell, the AGACs is even an attack helicopter.

The VF-1 (and maybe YF-4) are the only true multirole VFs in Robotech... the rest are exactly the kind of thing you're talking about. No need to go looking for what we're already oversupplied with.

[mech798]

I'm not to certain about that-- the Alpha seems very fragile and is also heavily dpeendnet on missiles-- once they're fired off (and note that we hardly ever seee them fired in fewer than four missile salvos), it's a very weak unit. That's especially serious if you don't have a clear logistics tail and Marines, if they're anything like real world Marines understand that and try to arrange systems so that they're not vulnerable. An ideal mecha would be something more heavily armored than the Alpha or other comparable mechs, with a strong direct fire punch that had a lot of ammo--either energy based or KE with substantial ammo storage.

[ShadowLogan]

could totally see (story wise) a whole new veritech or 2 come out to actually replace the Alpha and Beta...i mean in the canon the Alpha's design is what...30 years old? that has got to be nearing the end of it's lifespan. Some fighters have lifespans in the single digits...a very few have spans spanning decades...and usually those are the ones seen in fairly 'peaceful' times not highly violent times like those seen in the Robotech Universe where war has been fairly constant. That would lead to a LOT of new tech and such.

Depends on the setting of the book. The Alpha design itself goes as far back as 2016-ish, but isn't ready for use until 2022.

There's some concept art out there for a VF-13 Gamma Fighter, which was originally slated to be a new fighter introduced in the Shadow Chronicles movie before it was dropped in favor of the more Macross-y Super Shadow Fighter.

Which would make it a Macross-y design as the Conbat and the "Gamma" appears to be related to the VF-X-4. Have since they first appeared in RT. Its been a while since I looked at the Gamma, but doesn't it basically transform like the YF-4 for the mini's game implies?

It's doubtful they'd put a new fighter out there in the Marines book though, since that's going backwards in time (thanks to no forward motion from RT) to around the period where the Alpha was relatively new.

Well we know there are a few fighters yet to be convered from that period that the UEEF uses from the animation so it is possible.

The thing is, the Marines would actually be a good choice to have some kind of "ground pounder" veritech-- a vehicle that while it can fly is more oriented towards ground/low altitude operations. I suppose the big question is are they allowed to create wholely new designs or are they restricted to things in the concept art/ HG productions.

They won't be able to create whole new designs would be a safe bet. That restricts them to the show and concept art, maybe Sentinels, canon comics (maybe even the video games in terms of hardware).

I don't think the UEEF Marines need a new ground pounder flying Veritech. Existing Veritechs can fill the role as is or with minimal modification (GBP-1S or Fast-Pack like systems). Unless the UEEF uses the VHT-1 and VHT-2, the Cyclones could use some additional ground support (either precurssors to the VM-9 Silverback, new VHTs, and nt-battloids).

I'm not to certain about that-- the Alpha seems very fragile and is also heavily dpeendnet on missiles--

I wouldn't call the Alpha fragile. Its no more fragile on screen than the VF-1. I do agree the mecha is dependent on missiles, but the volley size hasn't really changed much from the way the VF-1 uses them either (IIRC it typcially fires volley of 4 missiles to)

An ideal mecha would be something more heavily armored than the Alpha or other comparable mechs, with a strong direct fire punch that had a lot of ammo--either energy based or KE with substantial ammo storage.

You mean like the Beta? It can carry nearly as many SRMs internally as the Alpha, it has 3 cannon arrays each as powerful as the Alpha's gunpod (they also run on internal power), plus 2 more hard hitting cannon arrays (shorter range and power) that are overall better than the Alpha's jet lasers, and a bomby bay that may or may not be reconfigurable for other ordance? Add in AotSC depiction of cannon on the back (w/booster) and an MRM missile pod, it would at least allow for additional mission type pods. The Beta is also on the cover, so maybe we'll see a VF-X-7 derived unit like the Condor is to the VF-X-5 if the period predates the Beta-9.

However one way to supplement the Alpha's fire power is to have a variety of gunpod types (one based on the AAC-11 could be brutal, and RAW out performs the GU-11). Imai files also poist GBP-1S/Fast-Pack like features for Battloid mode.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm not to certain about that-- the Alpha seems very fragile and is also heavily dpeendnet on missiles-- once they're fired off (and note that we hardly ever seee them fired in fewer than four missile salvos), it's a very weak unit.

The same can be said for almost any close-air-support unit today... they are, generally speaking, somewhat dependent on missiles for most of their combat endurance.

An ideal mecha would be something more heavily armored than the Alpha or other comparable mechs, with a strong direct fire punch that had a lot of ammo--either energy based or KE with substantial ammo storage.

Well, if that's what you're after, you won't find it in Robotech... Macross certainly, but not in the Robotech technical continuity.

Depends on the setting of the book. The Alpha design itself goes as far back as 2016-ish, but isn't ready for use until 2022.

Personally, I wouldn't count prototypes... unless we're talking Gundam.

Which would make it a Macross-y design as the Conbat and the "Gamma" appears to be related to the VF-X-4. Have since they first appeared in RT.

They're actually pretty different if you look a little deeper into their designs... but the transformation they've done for the concept VF-13 is somewhere between the Alpha's and that of a YF-19, which is an odd choice in aesthetics and looks awful.

[ShadowLogan]

Personally, I wouldn't count prototypes... unless we're talking Gundam.

I would since it gives a better idea of the actual age of a design and the technology going into it. Service use is another matter though.

They're actually pretty different if you look a little deeper into their designs... but the transformation they've done for the concept VF-13 is somewhere between the Alpha's and that of a YF-19, which is an odd choice in aesthetics and looks awful.

Superficially they are different in terms of molding. However all three follow the same layout pattern in RT, and 2 (RT's VF-X-4 based on the RTT mini and concept for the VF-13) appear to use the same transformation sequence. They are more a like than not.

[Seto Kaiba]

I would since it gives a better idea of the actual age of a design and the technology going into it. Service use is another matter though.

Fair enough... though we don't even know for certain when, in the VF-X-6's development, it was fitted with protoculture-based power systems. The RPG alleges it was originally developed as a drone during a period where fusion power was king, so certain technologies may actually be "younger" than the prototypes we've seen.

[Jefffar]

We don't have cannoconical references indicating if other model designations predated the versions of the Alpha we see in the New Generation timeline. There is certainly room for an SLMH powered Alpha, perhaps without enough reserves for quality energy weapons use so the type was made missile heavy.

Alternatively, the missile loads of the Super Valkyries proved so useful it was decided to make large missile capacity a design element of the Alpha and there was a willingness to sacrifice a degree of performance to get it.

[Seto Kaiba]

We don't have cannoconical references indicating if other model designations predated the versions of the Alpha we see in the New Generation timeline.

Some of the older material suggests that the -H and -I variants had been in service as the two main variants since the Alpha's introduction. More recent canon sources seem to support this, and based on dialog, appear to indicate the VF/A-6Z was meant to be introduced in 2038.

There is certainly room for an SLMH powered Alpha, perhaps without enough reserves for quality energy weapons use so the type was made missile heavy.

It's possible, though with the available evidence any SLMH-powered Alpha is likely to be just an early prototype from the 2010s.

[Jefffar]

The evidence suggesting something is not definitive enough to preclude other options. Without something concrete the era between late Macross and early New Generation is pretty wide open, aside from what's in the Master's Saga of course.

[ShadowLogan]

Fair enough... though we don't even know for certain when, in the VF-X-6's development, it was fitted with protoculture-based power systems. The RPG alleges it was originally developed as a drone during a period where fusion power was king, so certain technologies may actually be "younger" than the prototypes we've seen.

That much is a given that the Alpha has technology that is younger than the designs:
-Beta Docking System would be a 2020-2 development (since the Beta is a younger design than the Alpha)
-Cyclone Storage Bay would also be a more recent development (not high end technology, but the Cyclone is "new" so unless the bay already was in use for other things it has to be new)
-just because Fusion was king doesn't mean they wouldn't want to experiment with PC based systems. They would after all looking to be applying technology gleamed from Zentreadi mecha and such, and they use PC
-even the energy gunpod may be newer than the design
-then there is the -Z alterations

Some of the older material suggests that the -H and -I variants had been in service as the two main variants since the Alpha's introduction. More recent canon sources seem to support this, and based on dialog, appear to indicate the VF/A-6Z was meant to be introduced in 2038.

I'm not sure if we can trust the visual coloration and looks to determine service duration (Sentinels OVA would push all 3 models back to 2022 roughly if we follow that logic), there may be internal changes if the Alpha is in service w/o having to accommodate the Cyclone and Beta mecha at any point.

[Seto Kaiba]

-Beta Docking System would be a 2020-2 development (since the Beta is a younger design than the Alpha)

It was part of the initial production Alpha design, so while the Beta itself wasn't ready for primetime, that docking system was already present.

-just because Fusion was king doesn't mean they wouldn't want to experiment with PC based systems. They would after all looking to be applying technology gleamed from Zentreadi mecha and such, and they use PC

True, which is why the existence of a fusion-powered Alpha is dubious... but it's likely that the drone that the RPG claims the Alpha was derived from is fusion-powered.

-even the energy gunpod may be newer than the design

Barring depreciated sources, I'm not sure we can say that... beam cannons were a part of human designs long before the Alpha came around.

[ShadowLogan]

It was part of the initial production Alpha design, so while the Beta itself wasn't ready for primetime, that docking system was already present.

Was the docking system really ready for prime time though? We have no idea what may have changed with the system when it moved to the Beta-9. Also the docking system would not have been part of the early prototype Alphas, so in that sense it would be "new". And I find it hard to believe the UEEF would continue to have the Alpha carry around the useless docking system what with the need for range (though if they had something else other than the Beta to use with it I could see it being retained).

. but it's likely that the drone that the RPG claims the Alpha was derived from is fusion-powered.

Maybe, maybe not. Its hard to say what the canceled drone program would actually look like. Its just as possible the system would have tried the experimental (for human built mecha at the time apparently) PC based system.

Barring depreciated sources, I'm not sure we can say that... beam cannons were a part of human designs long before the Alpha came around.

I know beam cannons have been around, even in gunpod form (VHT) that predate the Alpha. I think we can say that potentially though the Alpha gunpod may have changed during the course of the mecha service life, we know it changed once (when going to the Shadow Variant) already, so it is possible the EU-13 wasn't the original gunpod depending on how the Sentinels OVA factors into the Alpha history (IIRC it was ammo based in the OVA).

[Seto Kaiba]

Was the docking system really ready for prime time though? We have no idea what may have changed with the system when it moved to the Beta-9.

Depending on how reliable Harmony Gold's released material pertaining to the 2022-era Beta is, the actual changes between the Beta prototype and production model would appear to be principally internal. There's only some minor variations in the battloid-mode head to account for, but that's about it. Of course, that IS entirely dependent on how reliable Harmony Gold's own remarks turn out to be...

And I find it hard to believe the UEEF would continue to have the Alpha carry around the useless docking system what with the need for range (though if they had something else other than the Beta to use with it I could see it being retained).

Eh... it wouldn't be the first time a vehicle went to production with feature content that wasn't immediately applicable, or with fittings for capabilities that weren't ready yet. Given how it works, removing the docking system isn't really an option. Significant parts of the Alpha's design exist to facilitate the docking process... the unused capability's presence shouldn't have a measurable effect on the fighter's range.

[ShadowLogan]

Depending on how reliable Harmony Gold's released material pertaining to the 2022-era Beta is, the actual changes between the Beta prototype and production model would appear to be principally internal. There's only some minor variations in the battloid-mode head to account for, but that's about it. Of course, that IS entirely dependent on how reliable Harmony Gold's own remarks turn out to be...

Even if the changes are confined to that of an internal nature, that can still effect the docking system. Obviously the extension arm's dimensions aren't going to change much since it still has to accommodate the alpha of the same size, but the components that go inside it can.

Eh... it wouldn't be the first time a vehicle went to production with feature content that wasn't immediately applicable, or with fittings for capabilities that weren't ready yet. Given how it works, removing the docking system isn't really an option. Significant parts of the Alpha's design exist to facilitate the docking process... the unused capability's presence shouldn't have a measurable effect on the fighter's range.

Maybe, but we know the Alpha had to be modified for the docking system give the distinct ages of the two designs in RT. Some aspects may be too integrated with the design at this point to remove, but there are likely also sections that can be removed without incident.

And it would have an impact on range, if large unnecessary bits are removed. First it would make the unit lighter if that is all that is done (however slightly), which means the T/W ratio goes up, the speed and acceleration should also go up. If the space is converted into propellant tanks, you can also see an improvement in the range at the expense of just getting a lighter design can bring w/everything else remaining equal.