Reinvisioning some old RPG mecha

[glitterboy2098]

i'm in the process of 'reinvisioning' much of the old RPG's original mecha into forms useable in the new RPG's universe. i've hit two of my favorites, the Super Logan and the Assault Battloid from the revised return of the master's book. sadly the copy of the book i took with me on this vacation trip was the older one without those mecha in it. so i have a few questions..

Super Logan - what were the old RPG's weapons for it again? i know the chin gun and gun pod were the same as the regualr logan, but how many missiles did it carry (and in what distribution between fuselage and legs?), and did it have the same 'shoulder lasers' as the old RPG's version of the Logan?
(less urgent.. anyone know where a good quality large dimension scan of the artwork can be found?)

Assualt battloid - basically same questions. i know it had the gunpod* and head lasers of the Salamander battloid, and the backpack and arms had missiles, i just don't remember how many and which types.
(also need a decent pic of this one too, though i have a somewhat decent scan i did i could use, it just came out crooked)
* i know it was technically a different model, but the stats were similar

[jaymz]

Super Logan

Nose trigun

Forward lasers

E-20 gunpod

SRMs - 4 per upper thruster, 6 per leg, 4 per arm however I would argue none in the arm and 8 per launcher as the pics show no launchers on the arms in my opinion.

Assault Battloid

SRMs - 2 per arm and 20 per back mounted pod (excessive if you ask me but thats what the books says)

Mini Missiles - 8 per shoulder and 4 per leg

EU-11 gunpod

Head lasers


Edit - added full weapon load to properly answer the questions

[glitterboy2098]

thanks. the way i do these reinvisionings things like armor levels and speeds can often end up rather different than the old RPG's stuff, but the artwork tends to actually show weapons so i try to match those reasonably closely.

i knew both of these had missiles but couldn't remember for the life of me how many.

[jaymz]

Now you know and knowing is half the battle! (y)

[glitterboy2098]

i'm thinking the super logan will get the same chin gun and gunpod as the 2nd ed's normal logan, the shoulder guns can have their stats pulled from the alpha's nose lasers (even though those suck. continuity and all), and how about 6 missiles per thruster, and 9 per leg? for a total of 30. toss in uprated SLMH fusion turbines to give it speed equal to the standard logan, and about 50% more armor. (to reflect armor material improvements and bring it closer to the Alpha's durability)
fluffed as a redesigned, improved version that is only a few steps away from being a new design entirely (similar to how the F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet was redesigned and improved to make the larger more capable F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

still looking at the Assault Battloid.. thinking similar approach here. basically a Salamander redesigned and enhanced with greater firepower. just not sure what to do with the missile yet. definately will carry less SRM's on the back (how would they all fit?). main change would be addition of limited flight abilities to the design (compared to the salamander's jump-only system), which also would make it space-operation capable.

also, neither of these mecha would be ASC. nor will they be UEEF. this is for a new group that'll let me combine aspects of both group's design styles.

[Snake Eyes]

Thats a good idea updating the super logan.......one of my SC favorites

[taalismn]

GB, you chose my two favorite mecha from that book(though all of them were great and I wouldn't mind having any of them if I was stuck in the Robotech universe...).

[glitterboy2098]

of the palladium originals, they are two of my favorites as well. (of the canon designs i was always, and still am in 2nd ed, a fan of the VF-1 and the Alpha.)

sadly i never got a chance to use them in a game, all the GM's i played with preferred macross era and tended to not use the RotM stuff.

for the 2nd ed game, i'm turning these into 'Colonial' craft.. mecha created for the defense troops of the colonies the UEEF seeded. these troops will form a branch separate of from both the UEEF and the ASC/UEDF braches, though their situation leaves them less unified than those other branches, and they tend to have closer ties to the UEEF or ASC (depending on distance from earth) than with the defense forces of the other colonies.

the SLMH power is taking a cue from the ASC, basically to avoid draining the PC the UEEf relies on (see my oft repeated rant about PC related logistic's), so their designs would be a mix of stuff derived from 1st war and ASC gear. (for example, the earliest colonies would have been using VF-1's and destroids, along with early generation VHT-1 hovertanks, while younger, and more distant, colonies would be using mostly ASC type gear)
the Super Logan, 'Assault Battloid' (the name will change) is basically the defense forces working with UEEF scientists to create versions of ASC type gear better suited to the smaller forces they have. (ASC gear really seems designed around mass quantities and 'attrition based' doctrine.. lots of less powerful but cheap gear. while UEEF gear seems to sacrifice some capability in favor of higher individual firepower and greater endurance.. the latter due to issues of space travel, the former due to the limited force sizes caused by ship transport limits. at least, IMO) this working with the UEEF is also explains the UEEF type stylings of the mecha. (the super logan having alpha like aesthetics, or the assault battloid looking rather like an armored VF-1 veritech. )

[jaymz]

All good ideas GB. Back to the specs though....I think 8 per leg would be more symetrical and make more sense. Also it keeps the same number of missiles in the design. As for the Assault Battloid...switch missiles. Make it Mini where SRMs are and Make it SRMs where the mini's are. Except for the arms. Keep those as SRM. That way 40 Mini, and 28 SRM. Also the A/B has limited flight capability so that is already there. Otherwise I like it.


As for the mecha in the expanded RotM..I was always partial to the Zeb and the Delta (Super) Alpha.

[glitterboy2098]

the flight ability is relative to the 2nd ed salamander battloid, which only has jumpjet capability. i write my fluff relative to stuff in the current RPG, to make it easier for GM's to stat up (since i'm not posting stats right now.)

[Alpha 11]

Loving what you are doing! Keep it up! And this is also one of my favorite Robotech books, with some of my favorite mecha also! And you know, I always invision the Super Logon as a kind of a combo of the Apache Longbow and A-10. Put in a pop up senser that could look over hills and stuff, and I think you would have a great mecha that could fill the role between the Alpha/Beta, and the ground troops.

[glitterboy2098]

i have a hard time seeing it like an apache or a warthog.. its just too small and fighter like. the regular logan is basically like an F-5 Tiger II .. bare bones light fighter/interceptor. the super logan would be like the F-20 Tigershark. a bigger, more capable plane derived from the regular one.

[Jefffar]

Those light fighters usually also make handy strike aircraft. IIRC the F-16 has flown more air to ground missions than air to air in a lot of the wars its been in.

[ShadowLogan]

i'm thinking the super logan will get the same chin gun and gunpod as the 2nd ed's normal logan, the shoulder guns can have their stats pulled from the alpha's nose lasers (even though those suck. continuity and all), and how about 6 missiles per thruster, and 9 per leg? for a total of 30. toss in uprated SLMH fusion turbines to give it speed equal to the standard logan, and about 50% more armor. (to reflect armor material improvements and bring it closer to the Alpha's durability)

I would actually favor using the 1E chin gun from the Logan/SuperLogan over the 2E's version. The 1E version has 5/3 the stopping power, and 8/3 the range of the 2E counterpart. This is actually one of those areas where the 2E is a step back from 1E w/no real justified reasoning IMHO concerning the Logan.

The shoulder guns could be dropped since they really don't add much using the stock LPWS-12 type lasers unless you where planning on putting in more than a pair total in the shoulders.

i have a hard time seeing it like an apache or a warthog.. its just too small and fighter like. the regular logan is basically like an F-5 Tiger II .. bare bones light fighter/interceptor. the super logan would be like the F-20 Tigershark. a bigger, more capable plane derived from the regular one.

In 1E terms I can see the Logan being thought of as an Regult Battlepod killer due to it's nose gun. By RAW (1E) the thing was capable (on right dice roll) of popping off brand new Regult Battlepods for each melee action of the pilot AND staying out of range. The VF-1, Alpha, Beta, and AJAX at best could only do that once per melee w/o resorting to missiles and they have to get w/n range of the pod's weapons to do it.

[glitterboy2098]

i can't agree.. the Logan is too fast and too fragile to be anything like an A-10 or Apache. as for being "a step back", that kind of mass firepower isn't really evident in the show, where the logan tends to struggle, even the "hero" one piloted by marie, which you'd expect to do abnormally good due to plot-armor and plot-weapons.

and i am confining myself to 2nd ed stats only. not only does this make it easier for GM's to stat out (remember, i'm only doing fluff for now.. not posting stats) but i'm also trying to keep the units balanced relative to the canon stuff in the game. which means dealing with existing game hardware, and not arbitrarily increasing the firepower of something.

[ShadowLogan]

I don't really see the Logan (even in 1E terms) as a A-10/AH-64 type platform. Its more of a gun-fighter (F-8 Crusader or eailier) than a more modern fighter (post F-4). However, by 1E standards it could be used as a Regult Buster due in no small part to the nose gun.

I have to disagree about the Logan's performance. In "Southern Cross", yes it is shown to struggle, but that seems to be function of the situation it was in and the cinematic approach taken (a lot of the time we do see the Logan firing its weapons but no indication if it hit or not). "Volunteers" clearly shows what Marie Crystal can do with a Logan, racking up a large number of kills (for reference Max Sterling is only said to have scored Nine his first time out with a VF-1 in the show, Marie here easily surpased him), 12-14 Bioroids. Ep 44 we see the Logan briefly and it doesn't do badly at all (even gets a kill). Ep46, Marie's Logan gets clipped, but otherwise there is no indication on how well/poorly the Logan actually performs (of note, a pair of Logans blasted superstructure away on a CityShip, something the Sylphide couldn't do with missiles).

As for 2E stats, what about giving the nose gun a longer burst setting to increase the damage, maybe even give it a cooling system to maintain the rate or without it the ROF would drop.

[glitterboy2098]

shadowlogan.. i am not changing the book stats for the gun.

full stop.
end of line.
do not pass go, do not collect $200.

if you don't like it? tough. go write your own material.
i'm sick and tired of everyone trying to tell me what to do, how to do it, and that my approach is bad, just because it doesn't fit their own views.

[Alpha 11]

Well, I was meaning as a support role, like those two do. It could hope around the battle field like the Apache and bring extra support to ground troops in danger, or swooping down like the A-10. Though you might be right with what plane to compare it to.

[Arnie100]

I think of the Super Logan as comparable to the F/A-18E - 18F Super Hornet. Like the Tigershark, an almost brand new design based on the earlier Logan. And so much more capable.

[Jefffar]

The late-block F-16s are also a decent comparison, at least when you look at what new capabilities they have compared to the original models.

[Arnie100]

Like the block 60s, Jeffar?

[Jefffar]

Precisely. It evolved from a daylight only light fighter to having an all weather air to air and air to ground capability including the use of beyond visual range missiles and precision guided munitions.

It started out as this sleek little number and has bulked up into something considerably more potent.

[ShadowLogan]

@glitterboy2098
I am only making suggestions, nothing more. What you choose to do is entirely up to you. It is your project you can do what you want with it.

[Chris0013]

i'm in the process of 'reinvisioning' much of the old RPG's original mecha into forms useable in the new RPG's universe. i've hit two of my favorites, the Super Logan and the Assault Battloid from the revised return of the master's book. sadly the copy of the book i took with me on this vacation trip was the older one without those mecha in it. so i have a few questions..

Super Logan - what were the old RPG's weapons for it again? i know the chin gun and gun pod were the same as the regualr logan, but how many missiles did it carry (and in what distribution between fuselage and legs?), and did it have the same 'shoulder lasers' as the old RPG's version of the Logan?
(less urgent.. anyone know where a good quality large dimension scan of the artwork can be found?)

Assualt battloid - basically same questions. i know it had the gunpod* and head lasers of the Salamander battloid, and the backpack and arms had missiles, i just don't remember how many and which types.
(also need a decent pic of this one too, though i have a somewhat decent scan i did i could use, it just came out crooked)
* i know it was technically a different model, but the stats were similar

Check your inbox....was able to find the battloid/guardian mode of it but not the jet....still looking for the Heavy Assault Battloid.

Edit...found Heavy Assault Battloid and Super Logan and sent them along as well....not too big though...maybe you can enlarge and not lose too much resolution on them

[glitterboy2098]

*stands waiting for tar and feathers*

next time i ask about pictures for the old robotech, someone slap me upside the head and tell me to check my photobucket.. aparently i uploaded a bunch of high def scans there a year or two back, which never made it to my hard drive. including the super logan and HAB..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... ighter.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... ttloid.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... ttloid.jpg

they were in a sub-sub-folder i'd forgotten about... time to reorganize things i guess..