Questions, Erata and nits, Robotech®: New Generation™

[Drakenred®™©]

The original topic name for this original version of this thread was suposed to be Questions Errata and nit picks for Robotech® The Shadow Chronicles® RPG . . . but that was unwildy.

Because some of us may be getting the book sometime today and the rest will get it later, the following will include some spoilers. in the mean time, let's keep this thread on topic with actual typos, errors, oddities, and possible editing mistakes.. . . .

And a Reminder, there were a few errors and not exactly cannon units in the original RPG books,(not to mention things that were not exactly cannon because they were not well defined to start with) so if you see something in the new book that seems to conflict with the Original RPG you may want to double check with whats currently the "Source" material

And that (more or less in order) is

1) What Harmony Gold says it is(wich kind of takes precidence over . . .
2) The Original US Show Robotec, (with the obvious exclusion of Art Errors and Fan Service)
3) The OSM where HG has not said one way or the other

and last if not least

GM Fiat where all else is silence.

Granted if the RPG seems to conflict with the current "offical word" from HG (Or even the OSM) then its a legit item for Inquiry, Errataing and or Nitpicking

That said. . .

Lets try to keep the comentary on sutch things as Mecha A clearly has tissue paper armor because they always get blown up or Mecha B is indestructable becuase of X to a minimum. Lets face it Its Anima, a mecha is not going to blow up on camera even if the pilot deliberatly fly it full throttel into at a Motherships main engins with ticking megabombs straped to it while yelling ou the name of (fill in the blank) unless it serves the story line for said mecha to be destroyed. and if the script calles for said unit to be destroyed and then it will be taken out by a child spilling his unidentifiable food item in some obsucre opening that was not their untill said item is spilled for the sake of destroying said mecha*.

*name that Anima!**

**Yes I know there are more than one Anima where something like this happens. its Anima. Its probably listed as a trope.

[Tiree]

Consolidated Errors?

Page 44 - 2nd Column 2nd paragraph under VFH-10G "Ares": It states that the Mecha does not have the ability to transform. The next paragraph (3rd) states that it has 3 modes of transformation. Under the statistical information it also states that it only is a battloid configuration.

Page 45 - Statistical Information: Physical Strength states that it is 35. Same page under Hand to Hand Combat states that it is 40. In either case the Mecha has guns for Arms, can it really have a PS?

Page 45 - Statistical Information: Range states 8 Days of fuel, Seriously?!?! Or is it truly able to find an abundance of Protoculture on Invid controlled Earth?

Page 49 - Statistical Information Cargo: The Hovercycle has built in storage compartments on the hover jets. The Typhoon uses those Hoverjets. Wouldn't that same cyclone have the same storage compartments? So they are unlisted as of right now.

Page 54 - AAT-30: Power System uses protoculture, but does not give an endurance range (In any form). But does have a backup fuel system that gets really underpar performance.

Page 55 - M-70 Kodiak: Power System uses protoculture, and instead of giving an endurance range in hours/days/months, it gives only a total mileage.

Page 75 - Invid Prince/Princesses Secondary Skills: Do they gain any per level? As written they do not

[glitterboy2098]

Okay some cool things

Hover Cyclone
Lunks first truck
Invid Genetic Experiment
Invid Bionic Experiment
Half Breeds (even though I disagree on bonuses)

Nits -
The name Franken Mecha (ugh!)
The vehicles give ranges instead of months or days of use. And are we to believe 4 P-Cells should power a truck for 1500 miles?
Almost all the OCCs are not MOS style, just the freedom fighter. But almost all have some sort of options.
Frankenmecha art is not clean as to be expected. It looks like it was dirtied up on purpose. Not my favorite, and I do not recommend it.

This is just a brief synopsis.

i think he means "point out any typos, flaws,and ommissions".. not give a review.

the point about the vehicles listing range instead of duration is a good point though. maybe the ground vehicles have extremely inefficent engines?

[Tiree]

Oh I realize that. But in an effort to make some points I wanted to go back for some input. I expect to edit that first post of mine in the next day or so

[Drakenred®™©]

Consolidated Errors?

Page 44 - 2nd Column 2nd paragraph under VFH-10G "Ares": It states that the Mecha does not have the ability to transform. The next paragraph (3rd) states that it has 3 modes of transformation. Under the statistical information it also states that it only is a battloid configuration.

Page 46 - Statistical Information: Physical Strength states that it is 35. Same page under Hand to Hand Combat states that it is 40. In either case the Mecha has guns for Arms, can it really have a PS?

Page 46 - Statistical Information: Range states 8 Days of fuel, Seriously?!?! Or is it truly able to find an abundance of Protoculture on Invid controlled Earth?

Page 49 - Statistical Information Cargo: The Hovercycle has built in storage compartments on the hover jets. The Typhoon uses those Hoverjets. Wouldn't that same cyclone have the same storage compartments? So they are unlisted as of right now.

Page 54 - AAT-30: Power System uses protoculture, but does not give an endurance range (In any form). But does have a backup fuel system that gets really underpar performance.

Page 55 - M-70 Kodiak: Power System uses protoculture, and instead of giving an endurance range in hours/days/months, it gives only a total mileage.

Page 75 - Invid Prince/Princesses Secondary Skills: Do they gain any per level? As written they do not

Page 44 the Original unit submited as per DLDLC/Irin Jackson was transformable, however as is in the RPG its not, I would however allow versions to be built that were as jet and helicoptor mode. (transformation would cause some issues based on the original model)

PS is also an idication of things like Towing and general carrying str/capacity, for example if you had a version with 1 arm and 1 gunarm. I would say the Str is 40-35 depending on how its built

also I edited your post a bit, but ...

Page 46 its 8 Pcells not 8 days, providing power for 4 days. TBH I would adjust that a bit myself but meh

ATT30 as for the unifuel engin, thats actualy not suprising if (a) its underpowered for the frame and (B) its actualy a mutli fuel (as in any thing from Vegitable oil to Kerosine to Aviation grade gas to the gas salvaged from the wrecked scammart)

as for the Princess, its a princess. .. . ..

[Drakenred®™©]

oh I dont have a problem with that.(his posting his opionion here)
that said
the ranges bit I dont have a problem with. for some, its a bit more accurate than time, but then I tend to do a bit of a bell curve roll to see how long the charge lasts. but then I suspect most of us are a bit arbitrary about the whole thing.Probably should have reserved a page for combined Errata.

[Tiree]

Well I updated my post with additional information inconsistencies that I saw. I'll go over it more the next few days.

I have to admit, I am almost underwhelmed by this book.

[Drakenred®™©]

the protoculture question depends on how you define what the heck is going on on earth and what protocutlre itself actualy is

theres evidence of the invid or someone rationing it or issuing it. and otherwise at the early parts that they are getting enough to maintain some level of normalicy.

And then theres also fallout logic to work with

to explain. . . if you drop a lot of (bascialy dirty) bombs, and society uses whats bascialy self breeding reactiors to provide it power for everything from flashlights to cargo ships, so that when things go to **** you have the fallout and all of thoes breeder reactiors curning out more radioactive waste, apart from the fraction of civilization that were in long term shelters the net effect to civilisations colaps would result in a fairly drastic population dieoff. bascialy what was a years supply of food in stores and warehouses for example becomes a 100+ year supply as radiation, diseas, and the colaps of modern medical infrastructure results in a massive population dieoff.

Then theres the fact that literaly entire army corps are droped willy nilly all over the planet with enough supplies to last them months if not a year or more and getting wiped out, and then the invid literaly just ignoring the giantic stockpiles of said suplies to rot.

[Drakenred®™©]

ok fuel, If my information is correct, an F 16 has 1000 gallons of fuel intenral,

Lets assume its compable to the alfa

lets further assume that it only flys once a day on that load of fuel on average

16 PC cans provide power to a Alfa for 30 days

that means that ONE PC cell is roughly - 1000-2000 Gallons of fuel,

a Quick grab from a fleet listing Im aware of, a 2006 PETERBILT 379EXHD 430hp Sleeper is rated at 6.5 MPG with an average cargo load of 30,000 pounds (rated 40,000)

So for that your looking at roughly 6500-13.000 miles per pcell, based on estimated power load.

(compare that to a Cyclone, if you comare it to a 2007 Harley-Davidson FLHTCUSE2 Screamin' Eagle Ultra Classic Electra Glide 1800/2 your looking at 38c/54H or anywhere from 30,000->70,000 miles on a single PCell.)

is it any wonder thoes things had power to spare for things like transforation and unstreamlined flight profiles at 80mph?

(edit note, an F14 weights more than an F 15, but has a larger internal fuel load at over 2000 gallons. >2500 with 2 drop tanks . . . so a Pcell = >-4000 Gallons of fuel. . .)

[Chris0013]

Okay some cool things

Hover Cyclone
Lunks first truck
Invid Genetic Experiment
Invid Bionic Experiment
Half Breeds (even though I disagree on bonuses)

Nits -
The name Franken Mecha (ugh!)
The vehicles give ranges instead of months or days of use. And are we to believe 4 P-Cells should power a truck for 1500 miles?
Almost all the OCCs are not MOS style, just the freedom fighter. But almost all have some sort of options.
Frankenmecha art is not clean as to be expected. It looks like it was dirtied up on purpose. Not my favorite, and I do not recommend it.

That is just a brief synopsis.

Page 44 - 2nd Column 2nd paragraph under VFH-10G "Ares": It states that the Mecha does not have the ability to transform. The next paragraph (3rd) states that it has 3 modes of transformation. Under the statistical information it also states that it only is a battloid configuration.

Page 45 - Statistical Information: Physical Strength states that it is 35. Same page under Hand to Hand Combat states that it is 40. In either case the Mecha has guns for Arms, can it really have a PS?

Page 45 - Statistical Information: Range states 8 Days of fuel, Seriously?!?! Or is it truly able to find an abundance of Protoculture on Invid controlled Earth?

Page 54 - AAT-30: Power System uses protoculture, but does not give an endurance range (In any form). But does have a backup fuel system that gets really underpar performance.

Page 55 - M-70 Kodiak: Power System uses protoculture, and instead of giving an endurance range in hours/days/months, it gives only a total mileage.

Are there pictures for everything? Hates it when they give you stuff but no pictures so you have no idea what it looks like.

[Seto Kaiba]

Nits -
[...]
The vehicles give ranges instead of months or days of use. And are we to believe 4 P-Cells should power a truck for 1500 miles?

Actually, it's a lot less unreasonable than you'd think... based on the OSM, anyway. The specs for the Ride Armors in the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA cite ranges over 300km on a single HBT3 cell for the older models like the VR-038 Bartley and the VR-041T Blowsperior. The newer, more powerful engine in the VR-052 MOSPEADA can go almost a further hundred kilometers on top of that (380km is the listed value). That's 236 miles on ONE cell. So, yeah, it's entirely reasonable that a truck could get 1,000 miles on four. (I think, with a better transmission and lower energy demands, that 1,500 miles isn't beyond reason there either.)

16 PC cans provide power to a Alfa for 30 days

I don't have a copy of the new book on hand, but aren't you overestimating by about a factor of three here?

[Tiree]

Are there pictures for everything? Hates it when they give you stuff but no pictures so you have no idea what it looks like.

For the most part yes on equipment. They reused some artwork here and there from Invid Invasion, Masters Saga, and Macross Saga. There is one motorcycle for sure that did not get a picture, the Warthog. Looks like vehicle combat and extreme weather rules were reprinted. But get Streetwise and Seduction skills show up.

[Chris0013]

Are there pictures for everything? Hates it when they give you stuff but no pictures so you have no idea what it looks like.

For the most part yes on equipment. They reused some artwork here and there from Invid Invasion, Masters Saga, and Macross Saga. There is one motorcycle for sure that did not get a picture, the Warthog. Looks like vehicle combat and extreme weather rules were reprinted. But get Streetwise and Seduction skills show up.

I would say if it has pictures of different modes then it transforms.

[Tiree]

Are there pictures for everything? Hates it when they give you stuff but no pictures so you have no idea what it looks like.

For the most part yes on equipment. They reused some artwork here and there from Invid Invasion, Masters Saga, and Macross Saga. There is one motorcycle for sure that did not get a picture, the Warthog. Looks like vehicle combat and extreme weather rules were reprinted. But get Streetwise and Seduction skills show up.

I would say if it has pictures of different modes then it transforms.

No pictures of the Transformed Ares, but there is a great description of what it looks like when it does!

I believe the non-transformable factor was put in afterwords, or that the Artist said it couldn't be done (if he's working off of 3d models). I still am not sure about the feasibility of the Ares IMU, and why anyone would use that platform.

Oddly enough it is stated as one of the first IMUs, and because of that it apparently is in sort of 'Mass Production'.

[Chris0013]

Are there pictures for everything? Hates it when they give you stuff but no pictures so you have no idea what it looks like.

For the most part yes on equipment. They reused some artwork here and there from Invid Invasion, Masters Saga, and Macross Saga. There is one motorcycle for sure that did not get a picture, the Warthog. Looks like vehicle combat and extreme weather rules were reprinted. But get Streetwise and Seduction skills show up.

I would say if it has pictures of different modes then it transforms.

No pictures of the Transformed Ares, but there is a great description of what it looks like when it does!

I believe the non-transformable factor was put in afterwords, or that the Artist said it couldn't be done (if he's working off of 3d models). I still am not sure about the feasibility of the Ares IMU, and why anyone would use that platform.

Oddly enough it is stated as one of the first IMUs, and because of that it apparently is in sort of 'Mass Production'.

I would pay real money for a deluxe compilation with all the inconsistencies ironed out.

[Drakenred®™©]

Nits -
[...]

16 PC cans provide power to a Alfa for 30 days

I don't have a copy of the new book on hand, but aren't you overestimating by about a factor of three here?

RT:TSC page 99 Feature 11 "16 fully charged protoculture cells give the mecha an active combat life of about 1 month."

[Tiree]

DLDDC - did you look at the dimensions of the arms to see if they would in fact fit on the body of the Mecha

Yes, I'm keeping it vague for those who do not have the book

[ShadowLogan]

Can the GR-80 be used on a Cyclone Fore-arm hard-point (GR-97, EP-40, CADs station)?

VRM-32. This is a continuity thing, but the VR-052 is said to be "new" in the 1st Episode of NG by Scott. The VR-041/038 seem like they would have been used in the VRM-32 before the VR-052, with preferance to the -041 for its heavy firepower.

This is another continuity thing, but wasn't the Alpha excluded from the 10th MD according to the Invasion Comic.

Invid Experiment OCCs. Why would they have their own OCCs, shouldn't they use the subject's original OCC instead and use the tables as modifiers as in 1E?

[Chris0013]

Invid Experiment OCCs. Why would they have their own OCCs, shouldn't they use the subject's original OCC instead and use the tables as modifiers as in 1E?

I don't know....seems like it could be a valid carreer path while the invid are in charge...there would probably always be work....and if you can work out a decent compensation package you might do alright for yourself.

[Seto Kaiba]

This is another continuity thing, but wasn't the Alpha excluded from the 10th MD according to the Invasion Comic.

It was. The 10th Mars Division only had Conbat fighters, as per the comic.

[Chris0013]

Can the GR-80 be used on a Cyclone Fore-arm hard-point (GR-97, EP-40, CADs station)?

VRM-32. This is a continuity thing, but the VR-052 is said to be "new" in the 1st Episode of NG by Scott. The VR-041/038 seem like they would have been used in the VRM-32 before the VR-052, with preferance to the -041 for its heavy firepower.

This is another continuity thing, but wasn't the Alpha excluded from the 10th MD according to the Invasion Comic.

Invid Experiment OCCs. Why would they have their own OCCs, shouldn't they use the subject's original OCC instead and use the tables as modifiers as in 1E?

What is this?? missile launcher? energy weapon?? Something we see in the show and is finally getting stats or something from the pre-production work??

[Tiree]

The GR-80 is a 3 shot mini missile launcher. It is used on normal motorcycles during the episode with Dusty Aires

[ShadowLogan]

@Chris0013
The GR-80 is said to be a 3-shot variant of the GR-97 ('virtually identical' is the words used) seen used on the solider's motorcycles in "Hired Gun". They don't note if it can be used on the Cyclone's hub stations, though the bike they are seen on is said to use Cyclone parts it doesn't have the hub stations.

The Invid Experiment though is supposed to be captured humans from any walk of life, as an OCC that seems odd to have a fixed setup.

@Seto
Thanks. I had reviewed the 1st two volumes, but was wondering if there was something I missed in the overall series that points to Alpha Veritechs being part of the 10th MD.

[Chris0013]

@Chris0013
The GR-80 is said to be a 3-shot variant of the GR-97 ('virtually identical' is the words used) seen used on the solider's motorcycles in "Hired Gun". They don't note if it can be used on the Cyclone's hub stations, though the bike they are seen on is said to use Cyclone parts it doesn't have the hub stations.

The Invid Experiment though is supposed to be captured humans from any walk of life, as an OCC that seems odd to have a fixed setup.
@Seto
Thanks. I had reviewed the 1st two volumes, but was wondering if there was something I missed in the overall series that points to Alpha Veritechs being part of the 10th MD.

I get that...apparently no one gets when I make a humourous comment around here.

Is the AAT-40 in the new book? the truck from Sentinels with the laser gatling gun next to the driver....I believe it appears in the episode with the old timers with the Garfish.

[Tiree]

Is the AAT-40 in the new book? the truck from Sentinels with the laser gatling gun next to the driver....I believe it appears in the episode with the old timers with the Garfish.

No they dont have the AAT-40, but they have both of Lunk's Trucks. The one where we first meet Lunk, the same one that is also in his Flashback. Then his standard utility truck. The also made the popup mini missile launcher an add on weapon for any flatbed truck

[Chris0013]

Is the AAT-40 in the new book? the truck from Sentinels with the laser gatling gun next to the driver....I believe it appears in the episode with the old timers with the Garfish.

No they dont have the AAT-40, but they have both of Lunk's Trucks. The one where we first meet Lunk, the same one that is also in his Flashback. Then his standard utility truck. The also made the popup mini missile launcher an add on weapon for any flatbed truck

I am right in that it is the truck we see Gabby driving in that episode though....right?

[Tiree]

Is the AAT-40 in the new book? the truck from Sentinels with the laser gatling gun next to the driver....I believe it appears in the episode with the old timers with the Garfish.

No they dont have the AAT-40, but they have both of Lunk's Trucks. The one where we first meet Lunk, the same one that is also in his Flashback. Then his standard utility truck. The also made the popup mini missile launcher an add on weapon for any flatbed truck

I am right in that it is the truck we see Gabby driving in that episode though....right?

I don't know. I thought he was driving an AAT-30

[jedi078]

DLDDC - did you look at the dimensions of the arms to see if they would in fact fit on the body of the Mecha

Yes, I'm keeping it vague for those who do not have the book

Yes, when in fighter mode they would ride much further back on the body. You could also, quite frankly, shorten that barrel length without a loss in range. It isn't really necessary for them to be as long as on the original destroids.

The barrel length of a kinetic energy weapon (i.e. slug thrower) determines it's range.

VRM-32. This is a continuity thing, but the VR-052 is said to be "new" in the 1st Episode of NG by Scott. The VR-041/038 seem like they would have been used in the VRM-32 before the VR-052, with preferance to the -041 for its heavy firepower.

Kinda makes me think that the VRM-32 is not a kitbash mecha and a full production model that predates the VR-38, VR-41 and VR-52.

@Chris0013
The GR-80 is said to be a 3-shot variant of the GR-97 ('virtually identical' is the words used) seen used on the solider's motorcycles in "Hired Gun". They don't note if it can be used on the Cyclone's hub stations, though the bike they are seen on is said to use Cyclone parts it doesn't have the hub stations.

I would say that the GR-80 can be mounted on the upper hard points of a Cyclone much like a RL-6 or EP-37 is.

IMO the MR-20 should really be a VR-20, (or a VR-30) Cyclone and the GR-80 could very well be a handheld three shot mini-missile launcher. The bike's design is very close to that of a cyclone.

[Colonel Wolfe]

DLDDC - did you look at the dimensions of the arms to see if they would in fact fit on the body of the Mecha

Yes, I'm keeping it vague for those who do not have the book

Yes, when in fighter mode they would ride much further back on the body. You could also, quite frankly, shorten that barrel length without a loss in range. It isn't really necessary for them to be as long as on the original destroids.

The barrel length of a kinetic energy weapon (i.e. slug thrower) determines it's range.

and the Raidar-X/Defender has Slug throwers... as it has extra weight when loaded

Weight: 21.7 tons (dry), 27.1 tons (loaded)

[jedi078]

DLDDC - did you look at the dimensions of the arms to see if they would in fact fit on the body of the Mecha

Yes, I'm keeping it vague for those who do not have the book

Yes, when in fighter mode they would ride much further back on the body. You could also, quite frankly, shorten that barrel length without a loss in range. It isn't really necessary for them to be as long as on the original destroids.

The barrel length of a kinetic energy weapon (i.e. slug thrower) determines it's range.

and the Raidar-X/Defender has Slug throwers... as it has extra weight when loaded

Weight: 21.7 tons (dry), 27.1 tons (loaded)

Maybe these cannons should be the energy variant and not the slug thrower variant?

[Seto Kaiba]

Thanks. I had reviewed the 1st two volumes, but was wondering if there was something I missed in the overall series that points to Alpha Veritechs being part of the 10th MD.

No problem. In, I think, the first issue of the Invasion miniseries, Lance Belmont's CO says something along the lines that they'd been training to use the Alpha fighter, but they'd been needed more urgently elsewhere and so they got stuck with Conbats.

[ShadowLogan]

Kinda makes me think that the VRM-32 is not a kitbash mecha and a full production model that predates the VR-38, VR-41 and VR-52.

Well various takes exist for hover-cyclones (imai files, IINM TY even created one for TSC). I really don't think of the VRM-32 to me suggests it's more of modified M-32 than a VR-Cyclone.

Either way I think I'll treat the Cyclone and the VHT as production designs. The AGAC one I'll just forget about, it's role IMHO could be better handled by a conventional vehicle mounting those weapons.

I would say that the GR-80 can be mounted on the upper hard points of a Cyclone much like a RL-6 or EP-37 is.

IMO the MR-20 should really be a VR-20, (or a VR-30) Cyclone and the GR-80 could very well be a handheld three shot mini-missile launcher. The bike's design is very close to that of a cyclone.

The illustration I think makes it clear it could go on the handlebar hardpoint, but what about the hub/forearm hard points?

Well the MR-20 probably should have been used as the VR-20. They did leave some room to do that as it shares parts with the Cyclone. How much can't say.

[Tiree]

There is some fan stuff that puts the three pack on the arms over a cads system I believe. I personally say no, even though the rules technically written say yes.

[Drakenred®™©]

There is one motorcycle for sure that did not get a picture, the Warthog. .

Which is just a nickname for any MDC streethog or custom bike that is not otherwise specificaly named.

[jedi078]

Either way I think I'll treat the Cyclone and the VHT as production designs. The AGAC one I'll just forget about, it's role IMHO could be better handled by a conventional vehicle mounting those weapons.

I intend to do the same. The VRM-32 being an early combat unit that is eventually replaced by the VR-41. I might include the missile launchers form page 66 of the imaifiles. The VHR-2S would basically be an up gunned variant meant to give the Myrmidon the fire power to take out bioroids. The MLOP could very well be an option for any Spartas or Myrmidon.

[dataweaver]

The AJAC design doesn't appear to be of much use if it isn't transformable. If it is, then maybe it's better to think of it as a Defender that can transport itself rather than an AJAC with big guns.

I intend to ignore the Invid Experiment OCCs and simply apply the Invid mods to other OCCs.

[Arnie100]

Anyone (or is it me) notice that from pages 59-86 that the the print in the paragraphs have shrunk (apparently to fit the 96-page reuirement)???

[jedi078]

Anyone (or is it me) notice that from pages 59-86 that the the print in the paragraphs have shrunk (apparently to fit the 96-page reuirement)???

Your not going crazy.....

IMO it was nice of PB to lower the font size in order to get that info into the book.

Question: The M-70 Kodiak has some weird looking front wheels. Or are they supposed to be treads that can be rotated?

Nits:
Why would the 'Invid Kill shot' be exclusive to the Freedom Fighter OCC when most UEEF personnel would also know that the Invid Sensor eye is a weak point (after all the UEEF is fighting the Invid too). IMO this should be removed altogether or granted to everyone who knows IC that the sensor eye is a weak point.

'Invid fighting' should also be granted to UEEF personnel as well.

While it makes sense for the non-military personnel (Freedom Fighter, Patchers, Pathfinders, Wastelander Rider etc) to learn how to pilot mecha their MECT bonuses should not be on par with what formally trained UEEF personnel get. Therefore the MECT bonus should be halved to reflect having to learn to operate the mecha secodn hand (i.e. not in a formal mecha combat school).

Why would the Mechanized Combat Spec MOS get the gymnastics skill simply because we see Rook hop and bounce all over while in a Cyclone? Instead this should be dropped or limited to a select number of physicals skills.

Patcher OCC has WAY TOO many OCC skills. I may be a bit off, but I count 4 mechanical type skills, 2 electrical skills, and 4 technical skills. This should instead be limited to 6 skills spread across the three categories. Otherwise you have a character class that trumps a military trained character.

[Tiree]

Jedi - I'm going to disagree with you on MECT. I like how it is set up now. You either have MECT or you don't. If you don't, it defaults to your Hand to Hand. Which reflects if you can pilot something, you can fight in it too.

What it also shows is how easy it is to use Robotechnology. And if you have non-military able to pick it up with a skill selection, this is good.

It also helps in deciding to use the limited number of skills provided to characters. Which makes me agree with the OCCs. The patched was set up to make IMUs

[jedi078]

Jedi - I'm going to disagree with you on MECT. I like how it is set up now. You either have MECT or you don't. If you don't, it defaults to your Hand to Hand. Which reflects if you can pilot something, you can fight in it too.

What it also shows is how easy it is to use Robotechnology. And if you have non-military able to pick it up with a skill selection, this is good.

Sadly that isn't how the world works. While it may be easy to figure out how to drive/fly something, it takes several months of training to effectivle use it in a combat situation. We even see this in the anime where Rand tries to operate the Cyclone and utterly fails until shown how to by Scott. Furthermore Rand and Rook never really appear to be equals to Scott and Lancer when using mecha. This pretty much tells me that the 1st edition of basic mecha combat training should be utilized by those not trained in a formal mecha combat school.

Instead of writing up separate a Basic MECT for every mecha the simple rule of halving the bonuses should suffice.

It also helps in deciding to use the limited number of skills provided to characters. Which makes me agree with the OCCs. The patched was set up to make IMUs

I don't mind the OCC concept of the Patcher but it basically trumps and mechanic type UEEF OCC/MOS combo. Those trianed in a formal enviorment should have the better skill selections, number of OCC related skills and overall education. Someone who has been living on a world occupied by the Invid is going to have to learn everything they do practically by themselves, all while trying to survive.

[Tiree]

Jedi - I still disagree with you on the MECT. What you are seeing with Rand and Rook is experience. Rand doesn't even have pilot Veritech. When he is able to transform, thats when his normal HTH kicks in. Rook I can actually see with MECT and pilot skills, but remember Rand and Rook picked up flying skills through that same period of time.

[Tiree]

Maybe these cannons should be the energy variant and not the slug thrower variant?

If there was an energy variant available. Macross Saga sourcebook didn't list one

[jedi078]

Jedi - I still disagree with you on the MECT. What you are seeing with Rand and Rook is experience. Rand doesn't even have pilot Veritech. When he is able to transform, thats when his normal HTH kicks in. Rook I can actually see with MECT and pilot skills, but remember Rand and Rook picked up flying skills through that same period of time.

I am sure we can both agree that this was all 'on the job training' and not formal military training. This is my whole point behind taking the MECT and halving the bonuses for the non-military OCC's.

Maybe these cannons should be the energy variant and not the slug thrower variant?

If there was an energy variant available. Macross Saga sourcebook didn't list one

There is an energy variant in the original stats. As it is the Ares is missing the ammo bins for the 78mm cannon ammo. Is this an art error perhaps? Or are the ammo bins visible in one of the other modes mentioned?

I've also noticed a possible art error on the VRM-32. When in battliod mode the body of the VRM-32 does not connect to the legs of the CVR-3. There should be some sort of connection (at least a pipe/tube) going from the side of the waist to the side of the knees. All of the other cyclone models have this feature. In fact this connector would be needed for operating the mecha in battloid mode so as to provide power to the leg servos found within the CVR-3 armor.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Maybe these cannons should be the energy variant and not the slug thrower variant?

If there was an energy variant available. Macross Saga sourcebook didn't list one

There isn't.... so the Stats Listed for the "Area" at 17 tons Dry should be 23 tons loaded.

[Colonel Wolfe]

nit- The Ares arms are under-sized.... http://i40.tinypic.com/11uz58k.jpg

[tobefrnk]

The book is nice. I was thinking it would be more of an "Invid Race" source book, but it's not. Still a nice sourcebook though. The one thing I was truly looking for in this book was some explanation addressing (either a correction or explanation) the text in the Shadow Chronicle books stating that the Invid Protoculture Sensing could detect and target Macross and ASC Mecha (which don't use Protoculture). I guess it's back to my own devices on that one.

[Colonel Wolfe]

The book is nice. I was thinking it would be more of an "Invid Race" source book, but it's not. Still a nice sourcebook though. The one thing I was truly looking for in this book was some explanation addressing (either a correction or explanation) the text in the Shadow Chronicle books stating that the Invid Protoculture Sensing could detect and target Macross and ASC Mecha (which don't use Protoculture). I guess it's back to my own devices on that one.

I'm gonna run with the Idea Kevin planned for the RDF and ASC mecha to be PC.. and Tommy told him to take a different path... thus making the statements in TSC about mecha from those era.. errors.

[dataweaver]

Or, as others have suggested, go with the notion that without an industrial base to produce it, SLMH has become rarer than hen's teeth; and mecha that used to use it are either useless (due to lack of fuel) or have been converted to use PC instead. A mecha that the Invid can see, but which can be operated, is far superior to a mecha that's invisible to the Invid, but which can't do anything.

[ShadowLogan]

Should they be that much better than a human all across the board? I admit to not really being sure here. Either way, scrape that darn teleportation drek, that is stone cold ridiculous, Ariel is supposed to be the next potential Regis, and for similar reasons, I am equally unsure the others powers should be allowed, did Corg or Sera display any of these abilities, anywhere?

Personally I think the teleportation should have been hardware based, but a racial ability might explain Sera's entrance into the Regis audience chamber w/the NG team already present. I don't think it explains how the team teleports in/out, which is why I think it should have been hardware.

Being Royalty it would make sense for them to have similiar abilities to the Regis, just not as powerful until the ascend to the thrown (so to speak). Now the question is are all the RCB/Overlords piloted by a Prince/Princess, or is there a 2nd tier of Stage5 (1E name).

The Attributes I don't have a problem with so much. The Invid do practice bio-genetic engineering, so it would make sense they would push for optimal attributes.

Invid Experiment O.C.C., Genetic Type, this shouldn't be an O.C.C., but rather a modification to other classes. Either way, its way, way too powerful anyhow. The Cybernetic concepts are a bit more interesting, but the actual results are also considerably more powerful than I would have expected, far, far more in line with Rifts cybernetics than not.

I do agree the results are a bit on the overpowered side for the genetic type, the Cybernetics I'm not so sure on since Dusty walked away from a flaming wreak in "Hired gun" and shrugged off H-90 blasts.

I do like the revised Dino stats in the GP section, much more balanced than the ones to appear in TSC (which where Rifts reprints).

[rtsurfer]

Should they be that much better than a human all across the board? I admit to not really being sure here. Either way, scrape that darn teleportation drek, that is stone cold ridiculous, Ariel is supposed to be the next potential Regis, and for similar reasons, I am equally unsure the others powers should be allowed, did Corg or Sera display any of these abilities, anywhere?

Personally I think the teleportation should have been hardware based, but a racial ability might explain Sera's entrance into the Regis audience chamber w/the NG team already present. I don't think it explains how the team teleports in/out, which is why I think it should have been hardware.

I don't think they teleported in and out so much as they folded. They pass through a bright plane at the entrances & exits, travel across/through an energy plane/grid toward a bright sphere and glowing horizon, then form beyond the exit plane from a flash/discharge of energy. Some kind of wormhole or fixed fold perhaps connecting the Regis' chamber to the outside and possibly other areas of the main hive or maybe even other hives?