Board index » MDC Worlds » Robotech® - The Shadow Chronicles® - Macross II®

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: The Future of Robotech
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:00 pm
  

User avatar
Wanderer

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:29 am
Posts: 66
Location: Alaska
Comment: It's a Gundam! *Boom!* ~ Every enemy soldier ever.
So with Palladium no longer having the license, they are now unable to make the games until they the opportunity comes in the future.

Problem with that is Harmony Gold is likely going to lose the license to Macross in the future as Big West has a hate on for HG and will fight to take it back if HG tries to get it back.

I believe HG will certainly try to get it back, but I'm dubious as to how successful that will be. Even if they don't get it back, they still have the Robotech trademark which leaves them with nothing but a name. They could try to remake the setting in a different way from before, making it all of their own thing, and depending on how they do I am open to the possibilities...but it wouldn't be the Robotech we knew.

So...I suppose my question for discussing is "...What do you think is the Future of Robotech?"

This is Wild Mass Guessing at this point, but I think it warrants a discussion.

_________________
"Your tricks are no match for Gundams immense power"-Amuro Rei


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:08 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 638
Not “nothing but the name”. Remember that Robotech II: the Sentinels used the Alpha because HG wasn't allowed to use Macross-based mecha. As far as I know, HG will retain the SDC: Southern Cross as Mospeada properties.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:12 pm
  

User avatar
Wanderer

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:29 am
Posts: 66
Location: Alaska
Comment: It's a Gundam! *Boom!* ~ Every enemy soldier ever.
dataweaver wrote:
Not “nothing but the name”. Remember that Robotech II: the Sentinels used the Alpha because HG wasn't allowed to use Macross-based mecha. As far as I know, HG will retain the SDC: Southern Cross as Mospeada properties.


I was under the impression that Big West also owned Southern Cross and Mospedia, and would be taking them too.

Good point about Sentinels however...they could use that as a spring board if HG got smart.

_________________
"Your tricks are no match for Gundams immense power"-Amuro Rei


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:35 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
The license HG has is a subsidiary license of sorts via Tatsunoku. It isn't Big West who won;t let HG renew but Tatsunoku and they are the ones who own the rights to all three shows so yes if HG loses its licenses from Tats, they have Robotech in name and basic story but they will not have the character and mecha designs.

As for it's future....like any property, while it may not have official presence in the public eye, fans like ourselves will keep it alive. Take a look at a property like Firefly. less than a full season of episodes and a single movie. That's it. Yet multiple things get made both officially AND unofficially.

What I am saying is Robotech's future is essentially in OUR hands. It's up to US to keep it alive.

I know I've been doing my part to make sure it survives in part with my personal wiki by rewriting all the mecha as well as converting it all to use in Battletech Alpha Strike (with some rules tweaks) instead of RRT. Others are doing there own thing as well.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:39 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
As an aside I sent you a PM Dataweaver...

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:40 pm
  

User avatar
Wanderer

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:29 am
Posts: 66
Location: Alaska
Comment: It's a Gundam! *Boom!* ~ Every enemy soldier ever.
jaymz wrote:
The license HG has is a subsidiary license of sorts via Tatsunoku. It isn't Big West who won;t let HG renew but Tatsunoku and they are the ones who own the rights to all three shows so yes if HG loses its licenses from Tats, they have Robotech in name and basic story but they will not have the character and mecha designs.

As for it's future....like any property, while it may not have official presence in the public eye, fans like ourselves will keep it alive. Take a look at a property like Firefly. less than a full season of episodes and a single movie. That's it. Yet multiple things get made both officially AND unofficially.

What I am saying is Robotech's future is essentially in OUR hands. It's up to US to keep it alive.

I know I've been doing my part to make sure it survives in part with my personal wiki by rewriting all the mecha as well as converting it all to use in Battletech Alpha Strike (with some rules tweaks) instead of RRT. Others are doing there own thing as well.


Would you mind sharing a link to those? I play Battletech (Classic/AS) and would love to see them.

Yeah, you're right on that part where we, the fans are ultimately what will keep Robotech as it currently is alive.

Firefly received an RPG despite it being off air for awhile. However I will point that Robotech is in a different situation than Firefly.

So I guess the question is what can we, as fans, do to keep it alive? The answer is obvious in playing of games at shops, conventions, cosplay, art, and of course talking about it online as we currently are. How about other ways though?

Just as an speculation, suppose HG does lose the license totally, what do people think HG would do after that? Come up with their own universe that keeps to the story? But with different machines/characters?

_________________
"Your tricks are no match for Gundams immense power"-Amuro Rei


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:04 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
HG will do nothing once the license is lost. They have demonstrated ZERO interest in actually investing or spending REAL money on the property as it is even with recognizable elements they have control of. To delve into all new things visually? Not a chance. RT has never been their bread and butter. That's real estate.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:10 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
As for what WE can do. Like I said, some of us are already doing it. I have my wiki. There are facebook groups, websites, etc. It was the fans that really kept it alive in the late 90s early 2000s anyway not HG or Palladium much like people like myself, glitterboy2098 in his own way, and others are now.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:41 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 42169
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
jaymz wrote:
As for what WE can do. Like I said, some of us are already doing it. I have my wiki. There are facebook groups, websites, etc. It was the fans that really kept it alive in the late 90s early 2000s anyway not HG or Palladium much like people like myself, glitterboy2098 in his own way, and others are now.


We are the Protoculture, the Fuel of Robotechnology.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:46 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Poetically put and true Taal.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:51 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 42169
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
jaymz wrote:
Poetically put and true Taal.


Hey, what's the real and sublime tap on zero point energy? Human imagination.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:14 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 9:17 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Monument City, UEF HQ
GundamChief wrote:
I was under the impression that Big West also owned Southern Cross and Mospedia, and would be taking them too.


Nope. Those are creations of Tatsunoko alone. MOSPEADA's mecha designers were Artmic: Shinji Aramaki and Hideki Kakinuma. The Southern Cross mecha designers were The Okhura Design Group (aka Studio Ammonite): Hirotoshi Okhura, Takashi Ono and Hiroshi Ogawa.

Quote:
Good point about Sentinels however...they could use that as a spring board if HG got smart.


The Okhura Design Group that did the mecha for Southern Cross also did the designs for The Sentinels.

_________________
Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:28 am
  

Hero

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:21 am
Posts: 1100
as I understand it you are really looking at 3 well 4 properties for robotech

1 Macross the 41 characters contrary to what HG may claim are owned exclusively by Big West/studio Nue, who has a serious hate on for HG for various reasons.

2 Macross as an anime/movie is I believe jointly owned by Big west/studio Nue, and Tatsunoku with Tatsunoku having the overseas (from japan) distribution and merchandising rights, which they sub leased to HG

3 the Sothern Cross, and the New generation animes are well I am not entirely sure but Tatsunoku has a definite owner interest in them and thus were able to lease them to HG in their entirety.

4 HG's lease on everything they leased from Tatsunoku expires in I believe March 2021, if they don't manage to renew it, then EVERYTHING they leased from Tatsunoku goes away, and all they are left with is the Robotech brand, and the script that they made. with that said they really upset Tatsunoku with their lawsuit so the speculation that the likelihood of them successfully negotiating a renewal of the lease is somewhere between slim and none.

and with all that said... in my and many peoples opinions HG arguably did everything they possibly could to a potential golden goose into a rotten pile of feces through their handling of the property.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:53 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:36 pm
Posts: 224
GundamChief wrote:

I was under the impression that Big West also owned Southern Cross and Mospedia, and would be taking them too.

Good point about Sentinels however...they could use that as a spring board if HG got smart.


Genesis Climber Mospeada is wholly owned and created by Tatsunoko.

Super Dimension Calvary Southern Cross is one of Big West's Super Dimension though it was created and produced by Tatsunoko so they definitely have some ownership rights however their is some grey areas (enough that HG rarely anything from it) to it but no one seems to care that much about it as it was the least popular od the Super Dimension series and was actually canceled.

A shame as I rather liked the series (Robotech: Southern cross was fairly dreadful), more than Super Dimension Century Orgus. I've never liked Mospeada however.

_________________
May contain peanuts
-warning I saw on a pack of Peanut Butter M&Ms


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:48 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 42169
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
Souhern Cross got a bum rap...I used to HATE it, but I warmed to it(maybe I just like the overly ornate body armor). I can't explain it, I just do.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:51 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 5835
Location: 25th Member of the "Cabal of 24"
Comment: Token Right Wing Fascist Totalitarian
"Never hit a man while he's down. Kick them, it's easier" - The Hunt
taalismn wrote:
Souhern Cross got a bum rap...I used to HATE it, but I warmed to it(maybe I just like the overly ornate body armor). I can't explain it, I just do.

I was in the same boat. RSCF actually has made me a believer in the awesomeness of Masters Saga equipment in Invid Invasion back in 1st edition.

With the 2e rule changes, Masters Saga character generation is the best, and needs to be the core for the other era's character generation.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:03 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 9:17 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Monument City, UEF HQ
camk4evr wrote:
Super Dimension Calvary Southern Cross is one of Big West's Super Dimension though it was created and produced by Tatsunoko so they definitely have some ownership rights however their is some grey areas (enough that HG rarely anything from it)


No, the only gray area is the original concept idea which was a Sengoku Jidai in Space series. That is owned by the widow/estate of the original concept author and she supposedly was very happy with HG's use of Southern Cross. BigWest apparently has some merchandising rights to Southern Cross in Japan, but Tatsunoko has everything else, including the Author's Rights to everything BUT what the concept owned by the widow/estate. The reason Southern Cross gets ignored by Harmony Gold now is because the jackhole "Creative Director" doesn't like it.

_________________
Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:39 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 1369
Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
camk4evr wrote:
Super Dimension Calvary Southern Cross is one of Big West's Super Dimension though it was created and produced by Tatsunoko so they definitely have some ownership rights however their is some grey areas (enough that HG rarely anything from it)


No, the only gray area is the original concept idea which was a Sengoku Jidai in Space series. That is owned by the widow/estate of the original concept author and she supposedly was very happy with HG's use of Southern Cross. BigWest apparently has some merchandising rights to Southern Cross in Japan, but Tatsunoko has everything else, including the Author's Rights to everything BUT what the concept owned by the widow/estate. The reason Southern Cross gets ignored by Harmony Gold now is because the jackhole "Creative Director" doesn't like it.


Well if we can post fan based content here then the SC will live on.

_________________
" Ale and Whores, it's not just your reward, it's your Motivation. "


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:08 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 42169
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
Kargan3033 wrote:
[

Well if we can post fan based content here then the SC will live on.


Hence why I created the BioSanitation Battalion as an Army of the Southern Cross branch. :P

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:56 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Except there is no gray area. If or when HG loses the license it's all of robotech not just macross because the license is from Tatsunoku not big west and if Tats won't renew one they are very highly unlikely to renew any. As far as I am concerned from hereforth robotech is in our hands and our hands only.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:24 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 1369
jaymz wrote:
Except there is no gray area. If or when HG loses the license it's all of robotech not just macross because the license is from Tatsunoku not big west and if Tats won't renew one they are very highly unlikely to renew any. As far as I am concerned from hereforth robotech is in our hands and our hands only.


Sounds about right to me, got a few SC era ideas brewing in the back of my mind.

_________________
" Ale and Whores, it's not just your reward, it's your Motivation. "


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:38 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Kargan3033 wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Except there is no gray area. If or when HG loses the license it's all of robotech not just macross because the license is from Tatsunoku not big west and if Tats won't renew one they are very highly unlikely to renew any. As far as I am concerned from hereforth robotech is in our hands and our hands only.


Sounds about right to me, got a few SC era ideas brewing in the back of my mind.


I've done my part statwise. I rewrote all the mecha etc (well about 90% or so) as well as a number of unofficial additions.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:37 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 1369
jaymz wrote:
Kargan3033 wrote:
jaymz wrote:
Except there is no gray area. If or when HG loses the license it's all of robotech not just macross because the license is from Tatsunoku not big west and if Tats won't renew one they are very highly unlikely to renew any. As far as I am concerned from hereforth robotech is in our hands and our hands only.


Sounds about right to me, got a few SC era ideas brewing in the back of my mind.


I've done my part statwise. I rewrote all the mecha etc (well about 90% or so) as well as a number of unofficial additions.


Nice, when are you going to post your work?

_________________
" Ale and Whores, it's not just your reward, it's your Motivation. "


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:39 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
All on my personal wiki. I can pm you the url if you wish

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:23 am
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 1369
jaymz wrote:
All on my personal wiki. I can pm you the url if you wish


I'd like that and thank you. :D

_________________
" Ale and Whores, it's not just your reward, it's your Motivation. "


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:19 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
GundamChief wrote:
Even if they don't get it back, they still have the Robotech trademark which leaves them with nothing but a name. They could try to remake the setting in a different way from before, making it all of their own thing, and depending on how they do I am open to the possibilities...but it wouldn't be the Robotech we knew.

It seems like a safe bet that Harmony Gold wouldn't bother trying to strike out on its own if they lost the Japanese source material. The last time they tried to create new Robotech material without leaning on the Japanese source material it ended up as the single biggest disaster in the franchise's history... at least until Academy was pitched on Kickstarter.



GundamChief wrote:
So...I suppose my question for discussing is "...What do you think is the Future of Robotech?"

Put simply... "Extinction".

If Harmony Gold loses the license, Robotech is done. After the public shaming they endured on Kickstarter, the company's confidence in the brand is at an all-time low. They're not willing to invest in new development now, so they're definitely not going to do it after losing the cash cow Macross license. Left with nothing but the all-original Robotech 3000 trailer, they'll fold.

I wouldn't expect fan projects to last very long before the bigger ones start getting slapped with cease and desists for using Tatsunoko or Big West-owned IP.



jaymz wrote:
Except there is no gray area. If or when HG loses the license it's all of robotech not just macross because the license is from Tatsunoku not big west and if Tats won't renew one they are very highly unlikely to renew any. As far as I am concerned from hereforth robotech is in our hands and our hands only.

The Macross license is the big sticking point... I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they were still willing to license Southern Cross or MOSPEADA to HG. The original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA is not exactly a coveted license even in its native Japan, and as one former HG staffer told me, Tatsunoko barely remembers it owns Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross due to its non-performer status.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:08 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 638
I forget where I saw it; but I remember something about a former viewer of SDC: Southern Cross who upon watching Robotech: the Master's Saga exclaimed something to the effect of “how the heck did you make it watchable?”

I agree that Robotech, outside of its fanbase, is almost certainly dead. But the thin thread of hope lies in SDC:SC and Genesis Climber Mospeada: if Harmony Gold has any interest in pursuing Robotech further (which I doubt), they should be able to retain or reacquire those two licenses.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:59 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
dataweaver wrote:
I forget where I saw it; but I remember something about a former viewer of SDC: Southern Cross who upon watching Robotech: the Master's Saga exclaimed something to the effect of “how the heck did you make it watchable?”

Not inconceivable, I suppose... though, given that the original Southern Cross was a commercial and ratings disaster in Japan and Robotech has never been available in Japan except as an import at the on-base shops in US military bases, a person who's seen both but saw the original first would be a rarity.

The view that the adaptation is the better of the two isn't at all uncommon though, which probably has a lot to do with the way the rewriters totally reworked Jeanne from a pathologically irresponsible boy-crazy ditz who only joined the army to get herself a handsome husband to a half-credible officer who acts out because she's working through some serious abandonment issues.



dataweaver wrote:
I agree that Robotech, outside of its fanbase, is almost certainly dead. But the thin thread of hope lies in SDC:SC and Genesis Climber Mospeada: if Harmony Gold has any interest in pursuing Robotech further (which I doubt), they should be able to retain or reacquire those two licenses.

Realistically, I'd have to say that thin thread of hope lies solely in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA. There isn't a lot of love for the Masters Saga among most fans, and as a result the licensees generally don't want to touch it. Any hope for a continuing animated series really rests on MOSPEADA, and the potential it has for the HG staff to turn it into a noninfringing Macross knockoff the way they tried to do with Shadow Chronicles.

MOSPEADA's kind of exhausted its "anniversary" utility in Japan lately, with a toy license that has finally reached the bottom of the barrel, so it should be a fairly cheap renewal.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:50 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 9:17 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Monument City, UEF HQ
Well...there may be news incoming that indicates Robotech's demise is greatly exaggerated....

_________________
Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:41 pm
  

User avatar
Rifts® Trivia Master

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
Posts: 14062
Location: Missouri
Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Well...there may be news incoming that indicates Robotech's demise is greatly exaggerated....


i suspect that they'll be able to renew.. the question is more "what will they lose" (since the terms for the macross material will certainly be more restrictive than what they originally got in the 80's given the TatsunokoXBigWest legal resolutions) and 'how costly will i be for them' since AFAIK HG and Tatsunoko are not quite on as good of terms as they used to be due to the payment dispute that led to the TatsunokoXHarmonyGold arbitration)

What i do think will happen though is that they'll have greater incentive to develop new material, like the shadow chronicles sequel.. or maybe do a wholesale re-envisioning of the series ala the Space Battleship Yamato 2199 project.. where they can retell the story from scratch using newer art design and replace the macross mecha and character designs that belong to Big West with something different enough that they don't have to worry about it.

_________________
Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)
Co-author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)
Image
* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

-Max Beerbohm
Visit my Website


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:00 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
glitterboy2098 wrote:
i suspect that they'll be able to renew.. the question is more "what will they lose" [...]

That's the million dollar question, yes.

After the events of the last few years, it's more or less a given that Tatsunoko will impose much stricter limitations on Harmony Gold's usage of their material if they opt to renew the license in whole or in part. That Harmony Gold tried to assert in arbitration that it had sole ownership of derivative works based on Tatsunoko's IP would be reason enough for them to heavily restrict the license or refuse renewal outright. Tatsunoko's majority owners, Nippon TV, have them exercising greater control over their catalog and seeking improved relations with Big West, and the next biggest stakeholder is Hasbro's longtime partner Takara Tomy, who have a peripheral interest in screwing HG over.

Harmony Gold only being able to secure a partial renewal seems likely. Whether it'll come in the form of requiring HG fork over their trademarks and living with a pile of new limitations, or they can only renew Southern Cross and MOSPEADA is anyone's guess. Harmony Gold has bitten the hand that feeds a few too many times for this to go smoothly for them.



glitterboy2098 wrote:
[...] (since the terms for the macross material will certainly be more restrictive than what they originally got in the 80's given the TatsunokoXBigWest legal resolutions) [...]

There was no change in the disposition of rights in the Big West and Tatsunoko copyright confirmation filings from the early 2000s. Things are as they've been since 1 Oct 1982 when Big West and Tatsunoko first partnered.

The only thing that's really changed from HG's perspective is that, having nuked the metaphorical bridge to Big West from orbit, the danger level in having overt references to Macross has gone WAY up. When relations were non-hostile back in the mid-80's, HG felt the Sentinels designs were different enough from Macross designs to make a lawsuit unlikely. Ever since relations went south, they've been keen to avoid and minimize explicit Macross Saga references as much as possible. No sense taking unnecessary risks, y'know?



glitterboy2098 wrote:
[...] and 'how costly will i be for them' since AFAIK HG and Tatsunoko are not quite on as good of terms as they used to be due to the payment dispute that led to the TatsunokoXHarmonyGold arbitration)

Yup, it's a very safe bet the cost of the license will increase sharply as a punitive measure so Tatsunoko can recoup the cash it lost on its court costs and attorney fees from the arbitration and the lawsuit that followed, as well as to get back the cash it feels Harmony Gold skimmed off of royalties owed. They'll probably also remove the language that permitted HG to use royalty funds to pay legal fees in their own lawsuits, since that was the whole bone of contention in the arbitration.

Given that Harmony Gold's own creative staff have made candid admissions that management doesn't see Robotech as a worthwhile investment beyond the immediate profit of the merchandising (online store), the renewal might end up falling through as a result of Tatsunoko pricing it higher than HG is willing to pay or unattractive restrictions on use that could hurt merchandising.



glitterboy2098 wrote:
What i do think will happen though is that they'll have greater incentive to develop new material, like the shadow chronicles sequel.. or maybe do a wholesale re-envisioning of the series ala the Space Battleship Yamato 2199 project.

That's profoundly unlikely to say the least.

By HG's own admission, they're not willing to sink that kind of cash into the brand. The management fronted the paltry budget of under $1 million USD for RTSC with the expectation that if it took off future installments would be funded by investors attracted by the first one. RTSC got a lukewarm reception from fans and ignored by almost everyone else, so the hoped-for investors never materialized. HG tried shifting its hopes to the live action movie to draw in investors, and that obviously didn't work either. They quietly canceled the OVA and abandoned the trademark filings on it back in 2011.

As many rightly pointed out, Robotech Academy being a Kickstarter campaign was kind of the ultimate vote of no confidence from HG's management. They were unwilling to bankroll it, and they scrubbed the project after it became apparent the fans weren't interested in funding it either.

If HG wasn't willing to invest a reasonable sum of its own money into developing new Robotech material when it was actually riding high on the momentum from its 2001 reboot and moderately successful DVD re-release of the series, or any sum once they lost that momentum, there's no way they'd take one on the chin in a license renewal and see it as anything more than incentive to close up shop.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:27 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
All of this just means, as I already said, the future of robutech is in our hands and no one elses.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:52 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 5835
Location: 25th Member of the "Cabal of 24"
Comment: Token Right Wing Fascist Totalitarian
"Never hit a man while he's down. Kick them, it's easier" - The Hunt
I wish HG would have Kickstarted the Shadow Chronicles, now that - I would have backed. Not some sort of High School Robot Pilots.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:19 am
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 638
Yeah; I have a feeling they would have had much more success with that.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:46 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
jaymz wrote:
All of this just means, as I already said, the future of robotech is in our hands and no one elses.

Not exactly a dignified end then, eh?

Well, at least until the IP owners start slapping fan projects with cease and desists, I suppose. That might end up being a small mercy, considering many Robotech fans don't seem to actually like Robotech very much. The history of the online fandom consists almost exclusively of factional infighting over which adaptation was the "real" Robotech, raging against Harmony Gold for things beyond its power and for using the reboot to impose order on a badly mismanaged setting because it didn't canonize their particular fan theory, and spinning bizarre conspiracy theories directed at the Macross fandom.

It's not exactly an ideal set of hands to trust the future of Robotech to.



Tiree wrote:
I wish HG would have Kickstarted the Shadow Chronicles, now that - I would have backed.

Couldn't have done... Kickstarter was founded three years after they completed the Shadow Chronicles "movie" and two years after the sequel ended up being put on indefinite hiatus.

That said, I doubt it would've been successful there. RRT was a minor factor in the failure of the Robotech Academy Kickstarter. A much bigger factor was that a lot of fans seem entirely unwilling to settle for anything that isn't Robotech II: the Sentinels. None of the Robotech 1 3⁄4: Approximately the Sentinels stuff like Shadow Chronicles, Academy, or UEEF Marines seems to do anything for 'em. HG won't revisit Sentinels, likely for legal reasons, so that ends up fomenting unrest since many fans won't settle for anything else.



Tiree wrote:
Not some sort of High School Robot Pilots.

Seems a bit incongruous, considering most of the protagonists of Robotech are high school age or only slightly older even after the rewriters aged them up from the originals.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 4:03 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 638
I'm pretty sure Tiree was talking about Shadow Rising: if the Kickstarter had been about raising funds to get it out of indefinite hiatus, I suspect it would have performed better.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:39 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 5835
Location: 25th Member of the "Cabal of 24"
Comment: Token Right Wing Fascist Totalitarian
"Never hit a man while he's down. Kick them, it's easier" - The Hunt
dataweaver wrote:
I'm pretty sure Tiree was talking about Shadow Rising: if the Kickstarter had been about raising funds to get it out of indefinite hiatus, I suspect it would have performed better.

Yes, I was talking about the Shadow Chronicles sequel(s).


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:13 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Seto - oh i never meant it to necessarily be a good thing just the reality of things. Im quite content with my robotech in my little corner of the internet.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:34 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
Tiree wrote:
dataweaver wrote:
I'm pretty sure Tiree was talking about Shadow Rising: if the Kickstarter had been about raising funds to get it out of indefinite hiatus, I suspect it would have performed better.

Yes, I was talking about the Shadow Chronicles sequel(s).

Possibly... though I suspect not by much, both for the reasons enumerated earlier with respect to Sentinels and because a lot of Robotech fans really didn't care for the Shadow Chronicles. Very few fans had anything nice to say about the first episode of the aborted OVA, and the criticism was so pervasive on the official Robotech forums that the mods there eventually made it a banning offense.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 12:28 pm
  

Knight

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:01 am
Posts: 4229
Location: Québec
To bad they did not make a Book on the Ships in Robotech.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 12:28 pm
  

Knight

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:01 am
Posts: 4229
Location: Québec
To bad they did not make a Book on the Ships in Robotech.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:35 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Thats ok gaby. I rewrote almost everything anyway. You are welcome to PM me if you want the links.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:48 am
  

User avatar
Wanderer

Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 4:56 am
Posts: 96
Location: Chippewa Valley, WI
I have to admit.... I was flabbergasted a short time ago when I came onto these forums to learn that PB lost its license again for RT. I was too late to be a backer for the RRT, which (all-in-all), I wasn't particularly thrilled with "another" table-top miniature game anyway. What is depressing the most about the loss of the license, is that I feel that PB squandered the time they had to make books (i.e. the Robotech Starships book comes to mind). The sad thing is, is that RTRPG was my first foray into table-top role-playing, and now that PB has lost the license, closes a long-time RT obsession.

As for the limbo on whether HG is able to get their renewal of the RT source material, they have only themselves to blame: putting the SC: SR sequel on indefinite hiatus; teasing us with a "live-action" RT film that put the SC: SR sequel on hiatus; and the moronic idea (IMO) of doing a Robotech: Academy series that died on Kickstarter.

To conclude these remarks, HG screwed themselves over..... Just a couple of days ago, I caught a news story that HG was suing the makers of Battletech.... Don't know much about it though.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:32 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
Treefrog wrote:
What is depressing the most about the loss of the license, is that I feel that PB squandered the time they had to make books (i.e. the Robotech Starships book comes to mind).

In all honesty, I don't think much was actually squandered on that front. The RPG's second edition was compelled to operate largely within the constraints of the official series canon by HG. They were essentially out of canon material of any significance as of the New Generation book... about two years before they launched the ill-fated Kickstarter.

The Spaceships book is the one big loss, but it's easy to understand why they didn't want to revisit that after Jason Marker left. It'd be legally problematic to use partial work he did before he left as a starting point if he hadn't been fully paid for that yet, and starting over would entail having to prove that they hadn't used his work in any way.



Treefrog wrote:
As for the limbo on whether HG is able to get their renewal of the RT source material, they have only themselves to blame: putting the SC: SR sequel on indefinite hiatus; teasing us with a "live-action" RT film that put the SC: SR sequel on hiatus; and the moronic idea (IMO) of doing a Robotech: Academy series that died on Kickstarter.

Those two things really aren't related. Harmony Gold's relationship with Tatsunoko soured over money troubles, with Tatsunoko alleging Harmony Gold was skimming off the top of licensing royalties for home video and streaming and HG claiming the license agreement allowed them to do exactly that to pay for legal actions taken in the name of brand protection.

Harmony Gold's decision to "indefinite hiatus" stealth-cancel the second installment of the "Shadow Saga" OVA was motivated by the Shadow Chronicles feature's failure to perform up to expectations. HG's senior management had been told that the OVA's first episode (Shadow Chronicles) would raise the franchise's public profile and build brand awareness among anime enthusiasts to the point the OVA's three remaining episodes would be paid for by investors. It was supposed to be an ambassador to a new generation of potential fans, and HG did make a real effort to get exposure for the film by screening it at film festivals. Reviews of the OVA were largely negative, the only award it was able to win was by being the only entrant in the category, and as a result it didn't really attract any positive attention. The fans didn't care for it much either, which left HG in the awkward position of having zero investors to fund a continuation of a largely unpopular title that the anime industry and hobbyist community had completely ignored. Indefinite hiatus was their only real option with nobody willing to pay to make Shadow Rising... and the LAM was their Hail Mary attempt to find someone willing to fund it.



Treefrog wrote:
To conclude these remarks, HG screwed themselves over..... Just a couple of days ago, I caught a news story that HG was suing the makers of Battletech.... Don't know much about it though.

That's nothing of any real interest. Just another repeat of HG smacking down the owners of BattleTech for trying to use designs they don't have the rights to, pretty much the mid-90's Harmony Gold v. FASA all over again. It goes to trial in 2019, IIRC.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:44 pm
  

User avatar
Rifts® Trivia Master

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:37 pm
Posts: 14062
Location: Missouri
Seto, i suggest that before you comment on the battletech case, you actually bother to do basic research on said case.

the case, summed up is;
in order to get away from FASA's choice ot use macross, dougram, and crusher joe art way back when, which caused a big court case back then that lost FASA all of said art assets, the current makers of Battletech related products (that is, Catalyst Game Labs (CGL, under the corporate name 'In Media Res' or IMR) for the tabletop game, and Piranha Games Inc (PGI) for MWO, as well as the newcomer Hair Brained Schemes (HBS) as the makers of the newest videogame) decided to create all new art that retcons the old stuff out of existence, and which at best only shares a vague profile with said old art. and not much of that either. no more than a gorilla shares a profile with a human. none of the three were attempting to use the macross art at all. and as such the old FASA case has no bearing on this one.

Harmony Gold however is maintaining this new art still infringes. the case against HBS has been dropped already because it's game was not using any of the mechs which had once used macross art, and the claims that HG used to drag them in were pretty unlikely. (it is likely they went after HBS purely because is run by one of the old FASA guys.)

IMR is currently in default due to not responding to the summons in time.. basically it is down to HG vs PGI, with IMR's fate tied up with PGI's as far as the rulin goes.

at the moment the case is still in the discovery and arguements phase, as each side submits evidence and makes their arguements. the court case is currently schedules for november.. but it might be over before that. PGI has established with a pretty good legal basis that Harmony Gold does not have ownership of the art they claim the new BT stuff infringes on, which by HG's own admission belongs to Big West/Studio Nue. so legally speaking they wouldn't have the authority to sue over possible infringement in the first place. HG of course is refuting that and using all sorts of tactics to try and convince the judge that distribution rights also give them original ownership rights. we'll have to see how the judge responds, but so far HG has been chewed out by said judge several times for apparent waste of court time (largely relating to HG asking for extra time to acquire unspecified legal documents from Tatsunoko and Big West, of the sort that HG should have had on hand before they started the case.. as well as a few because HG has just submitted so many documents changing the basis of the case and the charges they are making against PGI/HBS/IMR)

_________________
Author of Rifts: Deep Frontier (Rifter 70)
Co-author of Rifts:Scandinavia (current project)
Image
* All fantasy should have a solid base in reality.
* Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter.

-Max Beerbohm
Visit my Website


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:02 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 12619
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
GB - not for nothing but Seto has shown exactly how much he knows about every case between HG and Fasa and Catalyst and and and elsewhere. Maybe he just doesn't feel it worthwhile to got into details here as it is frankly irrelevant in these forums to begin with.

_________________
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of hte day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, AIM - icesith1, MSN Messenger - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, ICQ - 127915633, Yahoo Messenger - demonjames666, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

MIAFI :D


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:13 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
jaymz wrote:
GB - not for nothing but Seto has shown exactly how much he knows about every case between HG and Fasa and Catalyst and and and elsewhere. Maybe he just doesn't feel it worthwhile to got into details here as it is frankly irrelevant in these forums to begin with.

Pretty much. This is such old, heavily trodden ground that the arguments being made to the court look like a field after a four day outdoor music festival. BattleTech gets brought to heel for this nonsense so often that this feels like a Wile E. Coyote cartoon... defeat is inevitable, the only queston is how much damage their fool's errand could do to them before the dust settles.



Spoiler:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
Seto, i suggest that before you comment on the battletech case, you actually bother to do basic research on said case.

Oh, I've read everything the courts have made available. Research, you see, only counts in the end if you've got the background to understand what you're reading and you're referencing trustworthy sources. The inaccuracies your summary contains suggest you're not very familiar with intellectual property law and/or are getting your summary from less-than-reputable sources like BattleTech fan forum scuttlebutt or that useless mess called Sarna.

The long and short of it is BattleTech's current owners are trying to work around the binding settlement from Harmony Gold's lawsuit against FASA by replacing the unusable Unseen designs with something that looks similar but which they drew themselves. Harmony Gold is, not unreasonably, pointing out that the designs appear to have been based on the Macross designs for which they have exclusive merchandising rights outside Japan, which under the law would be just as much of a violation as FASA's unauthorized use of the Macross designs. Plus, should they establish that the new designs are based on Macross ones, that would also mean that they're in breach of the original binding settlement.


glitterboy2098 wrote:
[...] the claims that HG used to drag them in were pretty unlikely. (it is likely they went after HBS purely because is run by one of the old FASA guys.)

No, it's fairly standard practice in this kind of lawsuit to name any and all parties in a partnership who might have been involved in an offense, and selectively dismiss them based on the evidence turned up during discovery. The same standard practice also entails leaving open slots for parties yet to be named, which is why there are "Does" listed in the filing as well.


glitterboy2098 wrote:
PGI has established with a pretty good legal basis that Harmony Gold does not have ownership of the art they claim the new BT stuff infringes on, which by HG's own admission belongs to Big West/Studio Nue.

Actually, that's not correct. PGI's argument doesn't hold water, and has already been refuted by Tatsunoko in their sworn statement. Specifically, refuted on the grounds that PGI very foolishly seems to have forgotten that one of those rights a copyright holder has is the ability to delegate or transfer their rights to another party temporarily or permanently. Yes, the copyrights on the art and the artbook are held by Big West and Studio Nue, but they forgot merchandising rights and distribution rights are subsets of the author's rights under copyright, and that Big West transferred those rights (outside Japan) to Tatsunoko in their October 1982 contract in exchange for Tatsunoko financing production of the original Macross series. Tatsunoko then licensed those rights to Harmony Gold starting in 1984. (Amusingly, Tatsunoko's statement also indicates that not only does HG have the standing they need to bring a legal action against PGI and Catalyst, they're supposedly doing it at Big West and Tatsunoko's instruction.)

So, in short, their contention that Harmony Gold does not have the standing to bring this legal action against them won't work because Harmony Gold can demonstrate via its licensing agreement with Tatsunoko that they do hold (under license) a portion of the copyright rights to those designs that specifically grant them the exclusive right to produce merchandise (e.g. games) based on those designs outside of Japan. FASA tried a very similar argument during one of their attempts to get Harmony Gold's lawsuit against them dismissed, and it didn't work then either. (In fact, the most circulated document from that old lawsuit is the judge's rejection of their motion on the grounds I identified above.)


glitterboy2098 wrote:
(largely relating to HG asking for extra time to acquire unspecified legal documents from Tatsunoko and Big West, of the sort that HG should have had on hand before they started the case.. as well as a few because HG has just submitted so many documents changing the basis of the case and the charges they are making against PGI/HBS/IMR)

It wasn't unspecified... it was a letter rogatory asking the Tokyo District Court for documents relating to the original contract between Big West and Tatsunoko from when it was reviewed in 2000-2003. Essentially, because PGI has filed a small mountain of absurd motions to dismiss, HG is forced to refute them all one at a time. It's the same tactic FASA tried to use in 1997.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:48 pm
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:04 am
Posts: 298
You know, the thing is that if the IP holders in Japan want anything other than well, whtever payment HG might want to give them, they really need to find another license holder--which mind you, does little for robotech, because even if they give the license to Macross to someone else, HG would still hold on to robotech.

But fundamentally, HG has done nothing with robotech, and will probably DO nothing with it, if they somehow do renew it.

To be honest, we should hope that if we like robotech, someone buys the license for robotech, or the IP entirely *from* HG, and then puts in the kind of money and effort the property would need.

But, to be fair, I'd have to say, between HG's mismanagement and the bad feelings that have develoed around robotech, you'd probably be better off just coming up with a "completely origional movie about earth getting attacked by giant aliens and using transforming mecha" and call it something else. At this point, Robotech is an IP that is irrecoverably tainted.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:48 am
  

User avatar
Wanderer

Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 4:56 am
Posts: 96
Location: Chippewa Valley, WI
mech798 wrote:
You know, the thing is that if the IP holders in Japan want anything other than well, whtever payment HG might want to give them, they really need to find another license holder--which mind you, does little for robotech, because even if they give the license to Macross to someone else, HG would still hold on to robotech.


I suspect that the IP holders maybe secretly hoping that HG won't be able to get their U.S. distribution renewal, in-so-far-as: finally they (the multiple Macross series developers) would finally be able to market their products for the North American market; however, this is only suspicion on my part.

mech798 wrote:
But fundamentally, HG has done nothing with robotech, and will probably DO nothing with it, if they somehow do renew it.


I agree completely.

mech798 wrote:
To be honest, we should hope that if we like robotech, someone buys the license for robotech, or the IP entirely *from* HG, and then puts in the kind of money and effort the property would need.


I don't think this will happen (at least as much as a snowflake's chance in Hell, that is).

mech798 wrote:
But, to be fair, I'd have to say, between HG's mismanagement and the bad feelings that have developed around robotech, you'd probably be better off just coming up with a "completely original movie about earth getting attacked by giant aliens and using transforming mecha" and call it something else. At this point, Robotech is an IP that is irrecoverably tainted.


And this, above all, is the true sadness of the whole debacle. For me, Robotech RPG was the first rpg game that I ever played. I still remember seeing the Macross portion on TV.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:15 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4849
Location: Macross2.net
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie."
mech798 wrote:
[...] because even if they give the license to Macross to someone else, HG would still hold on to robotech.

To be frank, if Harmony Gold loses the license from Tatsunoko there'll be practically nothing left of Robotech to hold onto.

Harmony Gold got a pointed reminder of this franchise-ending problem during their arbitrated dispute with Tatsunoko over royalties owed. At one point, HG claimed it would retain the ability to use Tatsunoko-owned IP after the license expired due to having used it in original Robotech works. They were informed by Tatsunoko and the arbitrator that that's not how copyright law works, and that once they lose their license from Tatsunoko they'll lose the ability to use anything from the shows covered by that license. Like what happened to Untold Story after HG didn't retain the rights to Megazone 23, but writ large.

They'd lose the Robotech TV series outright as well as what's left of Untold Story, and they'd have to make severe Untold Story-esque edits to all the incomplete sequels except the all-original Robotech 3000 trailer. The comics (new and old) would be unsellable, the novels, art books, the games, toys, apparel... all of it wouldn't be sellable anymore and would have to be surrendered to Tatsunoko or destroyed.

All that would be left to them would be the word "Robotech", a handful of character names, some terms, one or two all-original comics like Robotech: Mordecai, and the Robotech 3000 trailer.



mech798 wrote:
But fundamentally, HG has done nothing with robotech, and will probably DO nothing with it, if they somehow do renew it.

The truth of Kevin McKeever's guarded admission that HG's management is primarily - almost exclusively - interested in the "quick buck" from merchandise sales from the online store seems to be more readily apparent with each passing year.



mech798 wrote:
To be honest, we should hope that if we like robotech, someone buys the license for robotech, or the IP entirely *from* HG, and then puts in the kind of money and effort the property would need.

Per the above, who would WANT to? You'd be getting the trademark on the title, a word more commonly associated with a brand of automated pool cleaners or a very odd "adult novelty item" from Japan, a library of commercially unexploitable works, and enough legal baggage to choke the courts of a small country for decades.





Treefrog wrote:
I suspect that the IP holders maybe secretly hoping that HG won't be able to get their U.S. distribution renewal, in-so-far-as: finally they (the multiple Macross series developers) would finally be able to market their products for the North American market; however, this is only suspicion on my part.

There's really not much stopping them from doing that now, TBH.

Harmony Gold could effectively block Macross from the west before the rise of e-commerce when people were dependent on their local brick-and-mortar stores to get hold of tapes, DVDs, and merch... but now that fans can poke their browsers to an online store and buy directly from retailers in Japan. HG can't do a bloody thing about it. Japan and the US are even in the same Blu-ray region code, which meant the workaround for Harmony Gold blocking licensing was comically simple: just put English subtitles on Japanese domestic market Blu-rays.

So far, both of the Macross Frontier movies and the Macross Δ TV series have been released that way with English subs, and it was recently confirmed that the movie Macross Δ: Passionate Walkure will also be subtitled in English for the forthcoming BD/DVD release in August.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group