So who wants to live forever?

[The ineffible GM]

Let's make a list!
What are the different ways that a human being, with some psychic ability or the ability to study magic, could become immortal in Rifts?
I'm talking about specific examples in the books of how a PC could (or an NPC already has) become immortal.

I'm not just talking about possible forms of immortality found on Rifts Earth, but also any examples from Phase World or other dimensions, anything from Palladium Fantasy would be good (such as, I believe, becoming an Alchemist?).

Heck, I think even Mystic China has a couple of methods.

So, what pathways to forever are there?

[taalismn]

Mystic China(N&SS)
-Immortals of Sleep(False path)
-Living-Dead Immortals(False path)
-Yin Immortals(False path)
-Possessed Immortals(False path)
-Heartless Immortals(False path)
-Damned Immortals(False path)
-Ginseng Immortals(False path)
-Alchemical Immortals(False path)
-Companion Immortals(False path)
-Enlightened Immortals

Rifts Earth
-Master Vampire
-Undead Juicer
-Full Conversion Cyborg(Possibly)
-Transferred Intelligence Robot

[Mack]

Earth Warlock, transfer essence into a golem... but gaining an insanity every 4 years is going to suck.

[taalismn]

While it's not explicitly stated, I imagine a Witch or a Summoner cutting a deal with an alien intelligence might, if the AI was really fond of its mortal toy, might get immortality on the subscription plan. But miss a payment and it's Dorian Grey cash-out time.

Also, possibly becoming a bioborg with the right HMO, or experimentation on by an alien(it's suggested that Lord Frommaline may be effectively immortal, or at least pretty damned near invincible), so you might ask Dr. Articulus.

[Blue_Lion]

Cloning with direct nero-links(data jack) to write the memories and experience of the original in to the younger clones brain. (think the movie 6th day)-not officially stated that it can be done but it would be feasible to do something like that.-would make an interesting campain one of doctor Bradfords secrete experiments, or secrete ninja program in japan.

Astral domains- can have the ability to stop aging so living in one.(but most that is found in a rifter and nightbane.)

Gene-splicer might be able to make some one SN thus making them immortal.

Be born a SN.

[ShadowLogan]

Let's make a list!
What are the different ways that a human being, with some psychic ability or the ability to study magic, could become immortal in Rifts?
I'm talking about specific examples in the books of how a PC could (or an NPC already has) become immortal.

I'm not just talking about possible forms of immortality found on Rifts Earth, but also any examples from Phase World or other dimensions, anything from Palladium Fantasy would be good (such as, I believe, becoming an Alchemist?).

Heck, I think even Mystic China has a couple of methods.

So, what pathways to forever are there?

Not mentioned:
Ley Line Mutation (Sea Titans in WB7)
Eternal Brain Implant (SB3 Mindwerks)
Healing Well of Chichen Itza (WB14. maybe not immortality but x10 longer with daily use)
Pyramid Technology (WB2, maybe not immortal, but longer lifespan either via regular sleeping in one OR stasis. Stasis allows 7days aging per 10 years in stasis)
Gene Splicers can also reduce aging (SB3, may not be immortal, but living for 2d6 centuries could seem like immortality)
Major Super Power (immortality)
become a Pneuma-Biform (WB7), none have died of old age
Deific Curse: Confuer Immortality (D&G)

[Axelmania]

There's that Shadow Self spell in Bletherad.

[taalismn]

The Necromancy spell Return from the Dead, but that just turns you into a vampire without the assistance of another vampire.

[MadGreenSon]

The Necromancy spell Return from the Dead, but that just turns you into a vampire without the assistance of another vampire.

That one is a pretty cool idea. A self made vampire, unbeholden to an Intelligence or anything else. Also a great way to have a Disney Villain Death without needing the villain to fall off a cliff or something.

Bad guy is dead, you saw him get embalmed and buried, and then he's back. Uglier, crazier, and thirsty for blood. Basically a Master Vampire with no boss and Necromancer powers.

[Shark_Force]

Earth Warlock, transfer essence into a golem... but gaining an insanity every 4 years is going to suck.

you may or may not be able to transmute the golem to flesh to mitigate that (what happens if you do so is not entirely clear). with the help of an air warlock, you can very probably pull it off if you just transfer to a clay creature instead.

[taalismn]

The Necromancy spell Return from the Dead, but that just turns you into a vampire without the assistance of another vampire.

That one is a pretty cool idea. A self made vampire, unbeholden to an Intelligence or anything else. Also a great way to have a Disney Villain Death without needing the villain to fall off a cliff or something.

Bad guy is dead, you saw him get embalmed and buried, and then he's back. Uglier, crazier, and thirsty for blood. Basically a Master Vampire with no boss and Necromancer powers.

I'm investing in silver and taking a clergy training course already.

[MadGreenSon]

The Necromancy spell Return from the Dead, but that just turns you into a vampire without the assistance of another vampire.

That one is a pretty cool idea. A self made vampire, unbeholden to an Intelligence or anything else. Also a great way to have a Disney Villain Death without needing the villain to fall off a cliff or something.

Bad guy is dead, you saw him get embalmed and buried, and then he's back. Uglier, crazier, and thirsty for blood. Basically a Master Vampire with no boss and Necromancer powers.

I'm investing in silver and taking a clergy training course already.

Wise move. I'm looking at it right now and that spell is no joke. They get all the powers of a Master Vampire, isn't vulnerable to water, gets their PPE halved, but retains all their spells and OCC abilities. The big hit is to their skills, good looks, and a minor hit to mental attributes in addition to the halved PPE. In exchange they get so much more.

"Bad news everyone! Our Necromancer enemy is back from the dead as a Master Vampire without the water weakness and is a worse driver! Oh, and he'll be killing a lot more people to cast his spells from now on too, so... bonus?"

[taalismn]

[

"Bad news everyone! Our Necromancer enemy is back from the dead as a Master Vampire without the water weakness and is a worse driver! Oh, and he'll be killing a lot more people to cast his spells from now on too, so... bonus?"

"Worse...he's got himself a heavy offroad cargo truck for a ride. What he can't spell to death, he may just try to run over, even without trying."

"NO SEATBELT!!! NO SEATBELT!!!! MWUHAHAHHAHAHA!!!! 'BUCKLE UP, IT'S THE LAW!!!! 'YEAH, RIGHT, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF I GET IN AN ACCIDENT?! HUH?"

[MadGreenSon]

[

"Bad news everyone! Our Necromancer enemy is back from the dead as a Master Vampire without the water weakness and is a worse driver! Oh, and he'll be killing a lot more people to cast his spells from now on too, so... bonus?"

"Worse...he's got himself a heavy offroad cargo truck for a ride. What he can't spell to death, he may just try to run over, even without trying."

"NO SEATBELT!!! NO SEATBELT!!!! MWUHAHAHHAHAHA!!!! 'BUCKLE UP, IT'S THE LAW!!!! 'YEAH, RIGHT, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF I GET IN AN ACCIDENT?! HUH?"

This is why you never let the guy who's immune to most forms of damage drive.

[taalismn]

[
This is why you never let the guy who's immune to most forms of damage drive.

Well, if there's any justice in the megaverse, the answer would be:

"As near as we can reconstruct the accident, the sequence of events went as follows: he lost control of his truck, crashed and was thrown through the front windshield, the megadamage frame and armor glass severing his head as he was thrown forward, his body immediately impaled on a large tree limb. Both head and body were subsequently incinerated when the truck's breached fuel cells exploded and set fire to the wreckage. In summary, he might have survived had he worn his seatbelt."

"Immortality isn't invincibility."

[Axelmania]

Assuming you die when your neck is 90% severed, wouldn't you become a vampire at that point and immune to glass damage?

[MadGreenSon]

Assuming you die when your neck is 90% severed, wouldn't you become a vampire at that point and immune to glass damage?

The spell doesn't say anything about the condition of the body at the point of death. It might work even if you're vaporized, I guess.

You'd expect a ritual of bloodletting and full moon rites that takes a year to cast and requires a lot of permanent investment of PPE and hit points to be potent, yeah? I'd allow it. A year is a big investment for a mortal.

[taalismn]

Actually, I wrote the situation with the assumption that the guy was already a vampire. Now, a simple glass cut probably wouldn't sever the head outright, but I'd like to think that while under normal circumstances the necrovamp would either simply rematerialize or screw back on his head, the almost immediate impalement right through the heart and the incineration would mess with that schedule.
Yah, it might have worked better, too, if he'd been simply impaled through the windshield, but where are you going to just find megadamage trees by the wayside, and besides, I had to make the seatbelt joke...

[MadGreenSon]

Actually, I wrote the situation with the assumption that the guy was already a vampire. Now, a simple glass cut probably wouldn't sever the head outright, but I'd like to think that while under normal circumstances the necrovamp would either simply rematerialize or screw back on his head, the almost immediate impalement right through the heart and the incineration would mess with that schedule.
Yah, it might have worked better, too, if he'd been simply impaled through the windshield, but where are you going to just find megadamage trees by the wayside, and besides, I had to make the seatbelt joke...

You can actually find MD trees in a few places, but I think the Steeltree forest of South Carolina has the main ones that don't come with a ton of extra baggage like the trees being sapient magic users.

If you were offroading in the Steeltree forest without a seatbelt, you deserve what you get.

[Shark_Force]

Actually, I wrote the situation with the assumption that the guy was already a vampire. Now, a simple glass cut probably wouldn't sever the head outright, but I'd like to think that while under normal circumstances the necrovamp would either simply rematerialize or screw back on his head, the almost immediate impalement right through the heart and the incineration would mess with that schedule.
Yah, it might have worked better, too, if he'd been simply impaled through the windshield, but where are you going to just find megadamage trees by the wayside, and besides, I had to make the seatbelt joke...

You can actually find MD trees in a few places, but I think the Steeltree forest of South Carolina has the main ones that don't come with a ton of extra baggage like the trees being sapient magic users.

If you were offroading in the Steeltree forest without a seatbelt, you deserve what you get.

on the other hand, i think most of the sapient trees in the setting would probably be more than happy to go out of their way to stab a vampire driving a truck through the wilderness if they could

[MadGreenSon]

on the other hand, i think most of the sapient trees in the setting would probably be more than happy to go out of their way to stab a vampire driving a truck through the wilderness if they could

Indubitably.

[taalismn]

on the other hand, I think most of the sapient trees in the setting would probably be more than happy to go out of their way to stab a vampire driving a truck through the wilderness if they could

Given the frequency with which cars hit trees IRL, I shudder to think of the accident statistics that would ensue if the trees were, in fact, aiming to hit cars.

"Perhaps the 'I Support Clear-Cutting' bumpersticker was a mistake."

[eliakon]

Geo-Immortal from Nightbane/Dark Conversions
A Mystic Imbued/Mystic Bestowed/Power from a Demon Lord/Power from a Devil Lord all can grant Immortality super power or make a person a Megahero with Immortality.

Also on the HU them, Mutants, Supersoldiers, Experiemnts, Eugenics and the like can all be done to people when ever... and they can all be megaheroes with Immortality

A Cold Blood (Mercenary Adventures)
A Murder Wraith (Juicer Uprising)
A Mummy Immortalus
Get turned into a Death Demon

[Mack]

A Cold Blood (Mercenary Adventures)

I'm going to push back on that suggestion. I see nothing in the description about extending the character's life span.

[MadGreenSon]

A Cold Blood (Mercenary Adventures)

I'm going to push back on that suggestion. I see nothing in the description about extending the character's life span.

I can see the argument in favor of it granting a form of immortality since it turns a person into a supernaturally regenerating quasi-undead thing. But you are right, it doesn't explicitly say that it does.

For the sake of clarity and not causing arguments, it's probably best we stick to things that explicitly extend life/grant agelessness.

[Shark_Force]

oh, well if we're talking about *extending* life span too, i'm pretty sure there's a symbiote you can get in atlantis that does that... the absurr (asburr?) life node or some such thing i believe is what it is called.

[eliakon]

Become a Cosmo-Knight
Become a Demon-Knight
Bond with Mindprancer the rune Sword
Step into the Circle of Immortality in Palladium
Receive the Deific curse of Immortality from a god
Become Spirit Monster from Spirit West
Have someone Pass The Torch and turn you into a Nightbane (Dark Designs)
Become a Never-Dying of a Yama King
Become a Terra Cotta Warrior
Use the Ultimax Deathstone to raise yourself as an Undead
Bargain with The Liberator the become one of The Corrupt

[MadGreenSon]

Become a Cosmo-Knight

Interestingly, under Fallen Knight it doesn't say they lose the open ended lifespan of a Cosmo Knight.

I guess that's so they can remain bitter over their failure for a looooong time.

[dreicunan]

A Cold Blood (Mercenary Adventures)

I'm going to push back on that suggestion. I see nothing in the description about extending the character's life span.

They can survive being buried underwater or in a vacuum for an indefinite period of time. The parenthetical then says "years, even," but having a natural life span run outwould surely limit their survival to a definite amount of time (the maximum life span of a member of their species), so this would be evidence that the life span of a cold-blooded cannot be defined in those terms. It would seem quite a stretch to then suggest that their lifespan is only indefinitie while underwater or in a vacuum.

I'd also note that the description of them mentions that "like a vampire, the cold-blooded...are stronger and faster than mortal humans...." Why make that comparison if the Cold-Blooded were still mortal? A human with the immortality power is no stronger or faster in and of itself than any normalhuman being, so the point can't be that the category of immortal humans are all at least as strong and as fast as the cold-blooded. In light of that, the sentence only makes sense if the cold-blooded is no longer mortal, just as the vampire is no longer mortal. In other words, immortal unless killed.

[Shark_Force]

unless they have a timer strapped to their body that tells them when they're going to die of old age, death by old age is still an indefinite duration. all it means is that you're not sure when something will end, and if you're not sure exactly when death by old age happens, something can be limited by that and yet still have an indefinite time limit.

[dreicunan]

unless they have a timer strapped to their body that tells them when they're going to die of old age, death by old age is still an indefinite duration. all it means is that you're not sure when something will end, and if you're not sure exactly when death by old age happens, something can be limited by that and yet still have an indefinite time limit.

Fair enough, indefinite is often used by people in the sense of not known exactly. I'd still maintain that there is the issue of comparing Cold Ones to mortal humans.

[DD The Shmey]

You guys covered most of the ideas that popped into my head.

Gene-Splicers have methods of greatly increasing lifespans, and it is very feasible that they experiment with creating true immortality.

Ruin magic could theoretically preserve your life essence indefinitely within the confines of a ruin weapon, turning you into a living immortal PPE battery, however I hardly think that this would be desirable.

Isn't there a fountain of youth someplace in central or south america? ... I thought it was referenced in the water merchant in WB21 Splynn pg 20, but that was just a well of water that magically heals, and can resurrect people fully emerged in the water.

I have an NPC in one of my games that is obsessed with discovering new paths to immortality. Some of the ways he has discovered (these are all house rules) include an Elixir of Life that involves soul drinking. I've got some kind of Amulet of Youth that transfers years of aging into the gem. This amulet was based around a house rules temporal magic spell that stole/transferred years of youth from one person to another. Then there was some kind of method that magically transferred the life essence and consciousness from one person to another in order to body hop and live forever. Of course the NPC also knew about becoming undead through Return from the Dead spell and various other methods of becoming undead. ... There are others as well but most of them were listed by other posters above. It's interesting that I had never read Mystic China(N&SS), but I used the same terminology referring to a number his discovered methods as "False Paths to immortality" as Mystic China(N&SS) seems to have used (thanks Taalismn). I also have this link to an image in the notes for his character sheet that I used for further inspiration. https://imgur.com/gallery/HjF2P

[taalismn]

Become a Cosmo-Knight

Interestingly, under Fallen Knight it doesn't say they lose the open ended lifespan of a Cosmo Knight.

I guess that's so they can remain bitter over their failure for a looooong time.

Thats some serious sulking time to think "if only I hadn't used my Cosmic Awareness for NSFW viewing".

[MadGreenSon]

Become a Cosmo-Knight

Interestingly, under Fallen Knight it doesn't say they lose the open ended lifespan of a Cosmo Knight.

I guess that's so they can remain bitter over their failure for a looooong time.

Thats some serious sulking time to think "if only I hadn't used my Cosmic Awareness for NSFW viewing".

If that's why they fell, then that one may eventually get over it and go on to be the Three Galaxies largest porn kingpin.

[The ineffible GM]

I can't help but think that the options where you become an unthinking undead monster don't quite fit what I was imagining for the list. I'll give you "Turn yourself into a vampire, but no vampire intelligence" and I'll even give you "become a master vampire, WITH a vampire intelligence" because you would still retain most of your autonomy and free will with that one. Sure, you have a monster on your back, but the Master vampires are in most respects still in control of themselves. It always seemed to me like being the head of a branch of a corporation, where you're in charge, but just remember that the Board of Directors is always watching.

ALSO! The major life extensions like Gene Splicers also make total sense here.

A couple others that have already (kind of?) been covered:
- Invincible Guardsmen from Phaseworld sourcebook can get super powers, therefor possible immortality
- Zone Boys from Manhunter can get super powers, therefor possible immortality
- Super Spy from Mercenaries can get super powers, therefor possible immortality
- Inglix The Mad, from Phase World Sourcebook, is listed as basically being immortal but it never really says how he got that way. It seems to imply that he has just learned so much magic, like Rune Magic, that he kind of just 'got that way'. So, supposedly if you study enough magic you can become immortal?

[Shark_Force]

well, there are a number of NPCs in nightbane who are magicians who are described as having used magic to extend their lifespan, but since they never really specify how they do that (ie there are no spells listed for doing it, no rituals, no magic items they use, etc, it just says that somehow or other they've done it) i didn't bother mentioning them.

but if we're just throwing out "hey, somehow or other this person did a thing", then i guess there's that.

but on a (very) slightly more helpful front, also from the nightbane setting we know that the nightlords and night princes were all mortal humans once... so apparently a pact with The Dark can do the job. warning: it will also turn you into a monstrous being that feeds on the life force of sapient creatures. you do get a bunch of other cool powers, though...

[slade2501]

Immortal as un-killable or Immortal as un-aging? Unaging is not really hard, mostly a GM thing not an established game mechanic. true Immortality? usually a terrible curse, becoming a vampire, a demi-god, etc.

[MadGreenSon]

Immortal as un-killable or Immortal as un-aging? Unaging is not really hard, mostly a GM thing not an established game mechanic. true Immortality? usually a terrible curse, becoming a vampire, a demi-god, etc.

Mostly we've been talking about general agelessness. Finding ways fully within the rules is just kind of a game.


Speaking of, if optional stuff is on the table, there's the Nexus Ritual in Rifter 78. If you roll 00 on it you stop aging, become immune to poison and disease, gain huge buffs to HP and SDC, gain a regen rate 4d6 every five minutes, plus a few other goodies.
There's a near certain chance of bad to awful side effects, it also makes you immediately fall out unconscious for a number of days equal to the number of days you spent meditating on the nexus point (one day per roll, must get 10 or less on d100 to succeed) and it can only be done in the Nexus Zone around the Devil's Gate.

Even though it's all optional and the immortality is a long shot, I like the ritual because it's a stark illustration of some mages taking insane risks to get power. None of the powers truly suck, though some are WAY better than others, the price paid in both danger and lingering side effects is nicely flavorful of the mad pursuit of power at all costs too.

[taalismn]

I always liked the 'Accidental Immortal' in Mystic China(N&SS). You weren't asking for it, you weren't looking for it, you weren't prepared for it....and you're likely unable to find out about it until ...well, you don't die or age. THEN the trouble begins..
Like being a drunk outside some alchemist's shop....you quaff something the guy threw out or misplaced. You probably don't even remember it. Decades later, you make the discovery that you might be immortal, but the experience is likely to be a painful one. And the more people you confide in, the more likely you're to attract the wrong sort of attention, like maybe the original alchemist, who's chosen a more horrible way of attaining immortality, learns of yours, and comes looking to get your secret, unaware that you're the result of something he threw away and likely doesn't even remember(like you, in your drunken stupor).


See the Mermaid Forest and Mermaid Scar anime for similar takes on 'accidental' immortality, or immortality involving magical means.

I had fun with that in a Rifts campaign with an ex-slave of no particular uber-skills or desire to be adventurous. Her cruel master used her for a guinea pig when he was out of volunteers/other victims, and skipped town when it looked like he'd poisoned her. Decades later, he returns tracking rumors and discovers his 'late' servant is alive, well, super-vital....and hobnobbing with dragons and other long-lived/immortal superbeings, because her case attracted their attention. Admittedly, she was a housekeeper by training, but she now sat court for some INFLUENTIAL beings, as the alchemist found out to his dismay.

[guardiandashi]

whats interesting is that most of the examples I have seen are only things that evil people would ever consider doing.
example spell, ritual, or artifact that transfers years of life energy from one subject to another.
one I read in a novel (can't remember what exactly) where a female magic user, casts a spell on her own child that either transfers all their life energy (years of life possibly including "bonus years" makes them effectively immortal directly or forms a pact with evil supernatural (deamon or devil) typically, where the sacrifice is the proof of earnestness that gets them the "benefit"

whats harder is to come up with methods that aren't horribly evil.

[taalismn]

whats harder is to come up with methods that aren't horribly evil.

They're paths of temptation. Immortality is just such a GRAND incentive to drive individuals already self-centered to pursue solutions that rational folks wouldn't, and thus set them on a slippery slope.

Damn few people start out seeking immortality for everybody(typically only themselves and a few close associates or family), perhaps because if good people start thinking of the long term effects if everybody was immortal(or immortality was relatively easy) , they decide not to continue the search. Or else they discover that the 'easy' paths are, as you say, horribly evil, and they decide that it's not worth the effort because what they see leads them to believe that cost of immortality is too steep ethically to bear. Thus more benign workarounds on the issue of mortality get passed by by those really, desperately chasing after immortality.