Telemechanics, stealing robots and PA

[Baron mugwort]

Hi Guys,

What are you thoughts on being able to open a suit of PA or a robot with the pilot inside?

Will Telemechanics provide codes, you just punch them in and the hatch opens?

Do you need Telemechanic Mental Operation to open the hatch?

I would perhaps assume there is some kind of deadlock inside a suit to prevent this happening but none are mentioned anywhere (as far as I know).

I was hoping to use something like this at some point in combat, sneak up on PA/Robot pilot open suit, subdue him, take suit, subdue his friends.

Is this a possibility or would I need some extra power/ability I haven't thought of?

P.S. I don;t want to have to pick more Telemechanic skills than needed and definitely don;t want to pick Telemechanic Possession.

[Killer Cyborg]

Hi Guys,

What are you thoughts on being able to open a suit of PA or a robot with the pilot inside?

I'm against it.

Will Telemechanics provide codes, you just punch them in and the hatch opens?

The door locking mechanisms aren't ever described AFAIK, so we're left to make up whatever we like.
Same with the means of "entry" in most cases.
With a lot of power armor, it's armor... unlocking it means that you might be able to pull a helmet off and such, but it won't just denude the pilot of his armor automatically.

With robot vehicles that people climb inside, things could well work that way. There are any number of design measures that could prevent that kind of thing, but whether or not they're in any models is up to the GM.

Do you need Telemechanic Mental Operation to open the hatch?

If a hatch is unlocked, it could presumably be physically opened by anybody who could pull it open.
In some cases, the hatch might open itself automatically when unlocked, but that probably wouldn't work well in most designs.

I would perhaps assume there is some kind of deadlock inside a suit to prevent this happening but none are mentioned anywhere (as far as I know).

Yup.
AFAIK, it's never addressed.

I was hoping to use something like this at some point in combat, sneak up on PA/Robot pilot open suit, subdue him, take suit, subdue his friends.

Do you have a specific PA/Bot in mind, or just a general tactic?

Is this a possibility or would I need some extra power/ability I haven't thought of?

All up to the GM.

[Baron mugwort]

Was thinking of larger robots tbh, spider skull, UAR etc.

I was thinking PA would be too small to start trying to pull someone who is essentially wearing it out of.

[Killer Cyborg]

Was thinking of larger robots tbh, spider skull, UAR etc.

I was thinking PA would be too small to start trying to pull someone who is essentially wearing it out of.

We've run plenty of games where with larger bots like Skull Walkers, characters have successfully physically hacked (via damage) their way through either the hatch or a hatch locking mechanism.
Whether or not this was realistic play would be up for debate.

[Blue_Lion]

I would think that PA would need to be turned off to be fully opened. After all you do not want the PA to match your movements when you are trying to step out of it. This would kind of a safety thing, there may be some way to over ride it but would be hard to do in combat or without the operator noticing.

Robot vehicles would kind of depend on the type of lock. If it has combat locks like modern armored vehicles then you may have a problem. Combat locks are a manual lock(no power) activated from the inside to avoid some one from being able to open the door or hatch(basically a lever you pull to move the locking bar in place). As there is no key hole or pad on the outside the only way to bypass it would be to use brute force to pull the door open, cut through the door or use telemechanic possession to turn the lever. (the combat lock is not a powered system so it would take possession, although a gm might allow use of telekinesis to move the lever.)

[Baron mugwort]

Excellent answer, I was thinking that might be the case (manual lock inside).

Thanks for the input.

[Shark_Force]

i wouldn't say telemechanics would give you the password. it might give you knowledge of a method to basically perform a password recovery, or a reset, as well as the default password if that hasn't been changed, or something along those lines if a password is in fact being used, however; essentially it gives you the a full copy of the operating manuals in your head, plus schematics. some organizations may require the same password be used so that others can operate a vehicle if necessary, as well as allowing mechanics to know the password. either of those possibilities provide a potential weak point where a password can be uncovered as well.

i would expect there is some form of manual override to extract a pilot from almost any vehicle or armour. depending on how much security is valued over the ability to rescue a person inside in case of catastrophe, that override may be something very simple to something very difficult or at least time-consuming. it may also require special tools. telemechanics would let you know of the method (probably, your knowledge isn't perfect), and provided the technique in question does not require further highly technical skills you could most likely use it. obviously, it won't provide you with any unusual tools (whether that be something along the lines of the jaws of life used by firefighters to extract people from burning vehicles or something more like a key, and definitely for a device behind a locked panel that has a manual override to the access point since that would be part of the system), but may give you an idea of what that tool would look like (probably not for the jaws of life type thing, since that is a tool completely separate from the device it is used on; probably for something more like a key).

i would expect any physical bolts or similar to by default be operated by the machine in question; security must be weighed against convenience, because convenience will generally win easily (that is, if your security system is too annoying to use, the users will find a way to bypass it entirely). if there is a bar or deadbolt that can only be manually operated by cranking a wheel for 15 seconds, most people won't use it if they can get away with it at all; if there is a bar or deadbolt that can be opened or closed with the press of a button, and only needs to be manually operated in the event of power failure (either deliberate or accidental), it is far more likely to be used. in general, when discussing multi-million credit machines, i would expect extremely low cost protections from common threats (and at the very least, non-super psionic powers are *very* common on rifts) to be implemented in most systems; for example, the mechanoids book indicates that telekinesis is supposed to be able to reach past a physical object to manipulate things beyond (there's a passage describing a group needing to use a welding torch to cut through a panel so that they could access a button normally pressed using telekinesis); if that's how telekinesis works in your games, i'd expect the button for a robot hatch to be located in a general area rather than a specific one (so for example, there might be a button somewhere within a 2x2 area, but you don't know specifically where in that area unless you've seen it on that specific vehicle) so that you can't easily press it telekinetically because that is very low cost; they could even just have the button hanging from an adjustable extending arm (think desk lamp or similar) so that its precise location moves and telekinesis cannot be reliably used, with fairly low cost.

i would not expect them to have a system with half a dozen airlocking doors, each with a constantly moving button controlled by a device fully separated from the machine's systems and contained entirely within a separate device for each door (designed to only be accessible from inside said door), however... unless you're dealing with a custom job (which could be possible; emperor prosek's personal transportation likely has all manner of extra layers of security to it, for example).

in general, i would expect any method of easily breaching a military vehicle (barring extreme amounts of damage) to be difficult or even practically speaking impossible to use on a mobile and aware target, and likely will have some kind of warning system that activates when someone tries to use them (which you may or may not be able to disable using other methods) to let any pilot inside who is not expecting a rescue team or similar know that they should be mobile and aware.

exceptions might be made for cheaply made vehicles; black market knock-offs or chipwell armaments equipment, for example, where they cut as many corners as possible. on such devices, anything beyond the bare minimum required for essential functions is probably not there, and even what is there may be fairly shoddy.

[Blue_Lion]

Actually the is a reason the combat door lock is not operated by the machine.
If the lock is operated by the machine then when the machine looses power the crew would be locked in. So imagine your robot vehicle just got reduced to 0 MDC, it stops working if the locks are powered by the machine you are now trapped.

I should also point out a manual lock is not a huge inconvenience, they are fairly easy to operate just pull up on the lever to unlock and push down to lock.

So a manual combat lock, makes it hard for an enemy to gain access to the crew, is not a significant inconvenience and does not trap the crew in the event of loss of power.


Automatic locks are subject to higher level of tampering in rifts, can leave the crew trapped in case of loss of power.


(For opsec reason I will not go in how we override the manual lock from the outside of the vehicle, but I will say it would not be easy to do on a mobile manned robot vehicle.)

[Shark_Force]

having an electrically operated door with a manual option in case of power loss maintains full convenience. and i see little point in having a 150 MDC door that relies on a latch that will break under far less pressure, which means the bar is going to need to be pretty heavy as well; punches that would destroy lightly armoured modern tanks are not all that uncommon in rifts. so whatever bar you're sliding into place, you're probably going to want a machine to do it.

just have a panel to the side that can be opened up to reveal a crank that can be turned to manually remove the bar in case of power loss.

[Killer Cyborg]

i wouldn't say telemechanics would give you the password. it might give you knowledge of a method to basically perform a password recovery, or a reset, as well as the default password if that hasn't been changed, or something along those lines if a password is in fact being used, however; essentially it gives you the a full copy of the operating manuals in your head, plus schematics. some organizations may require the same password be used so that others can operate a vehicle if necessary, as well as allowing mechanics to know the password. either of those possibilities provide a potential weak point where a password can be uncovered as well.

RUE 183-184
When touching an artificially intelligent machine, i.e., computers, the psionic not only understands everything about its operaton, repair, access codes, etc., but can actually communicate with it telepathically. This mean he can tap into a computer's memory bank without using a terminal because the information would be sent directly into the psychic's mind. Remember, the telepathic link and memory are temporary abilities (although a Total Recall would be able to call up small bits of info). The psychic's skill knowledge is equal to an 88% skill proficiency and applies to all aspects of the machine, its operation, repair, special codes, programming, etc.

"Access codes" include both identification numbers/names and passwords, so the power grants people the same 88% chance to know passwords as it does to otherwise hack, analyze, or repair the machine.

[torjones]

Hi Guys,

Hello

What are you thoughts on being able to open a suit of PA or a robot with the pilot inside?

When I get the opportunity to play, I love playing Mind Melters and Neo-Humans, lots of other characters too, but ya know... anyway, there are so many ways to simply shut down a power armor or robot vehicle with psionics it's almost sad, except that you actually have to get close enough to actually do it, which isn't always easy. Yes, Telemechanics will get you passwords and such to open hatches and what not, but Telemechanics Mental Operation (TMO) gives you direct control over the machine in question. Of course, you still have to stay withing a pretty short range, so if that's what you're doing, I'd set the reactor to scram and just leave the whole thing shut down until they replace the reactor in the PA. Robots are a bit more flexible, imo. Not only do they all have nuclear reactors for you to play with, they also have ejector seats. If you've got TMO, just trigger the ejector seat to evacuate the pilot and then take over as it's new pilot, it's not like you really need the chair to reach the controls properly. OR you could make it look like the self-destruct had started and he's only got 30 seconds to evacuate. it's a long enough time that the pilot isn't going to yank the ejector seat handles, but short enough that he's not going to try fighting it too much.

Personally, I prefer Electrokinesis for my anti-robot operations. You get 50' range rather than 5' and you get nearly as good control over the 'bot so you can get close enough to use the fine control that TMO gives you, or the even better control that Possession gives you.

Yeah, basically, opening a robot isn't a problem to a psychic with either Electrokinesis or Telemechanics. Power Armors may be a bit different, depending on how your GM thinks they work, like putting them on and taking them off, but shutting them down and keeping them off for a significant period of time is not difficult. Keep in mind that the Rifts main book and RUE both have a handy lists that "All power armor have the following features" and the same for robots. And unless it's artificially intelligent, it doesn't get a saving throw against your powers. That list is a really neat place to start with for ways to screw with power armor and robots. "It's nuclear powered, so how many ways can I screw with that?" "It's got a combat computer, targeting computer, and radar, how many ways can I screw around with that?" Get creative. lots of fun

Will Telemechanics provide codes, you just punch them in and the hatch opens?

Yup, that's one way of doing it. or, since you know the codes, you could just enter the code into the little electronic chips that it needs to open the hatch and it'll do it all by itself without you having to touch the thing.

Do you need Telemechanic Mental Operation to open the hatch?

I think I accidentally answered this a couple of times already, but no. Telemechanics alone will allow you to do it. Telemechanics Possession will allow you to do it. Electrokinesis will allow you to do it from at least 50 feet away.

I would perhaps assume there is some kind of deadlock inside a suit to prevent this happening but none are mentioned anywhere (as far as I know).

I don't think such a thing would really be all that effective. If you're using Telemechanics, the dead-lock would be part of the mechanism of the suit, and you know about it and how to work it, and with TMO, you simply operate it. Electrokinesis wouldn't be effective against it, but the telemechanics powers would still work against it.

I was hoping to use something like this at some point in combat, sneak up on PA/Robot pilot open suit, subdue him, take suit, subdue his friends.

It works really well, imo, assuming that you can sneak up on them in the first place. "I stand in the alley working on my keyboard. when the PA suit walks past, I pop the latches keeping it all sealed up. as the pilot hits the ground, I shove the barrel of my NG-P7 in his face and ask him to kindly surrender. scrub the serial numbers and control codes from the computers, changing them to a generic set of codes, and sell the PA to the Black Market." "Oh look, there's a Warbird sitting out front of that bar? I get within 50' and shut off the alarm, I get within 5' and I own the thing. fly off with it and sell it to the Black Market." "oh my, someone's pointing a plasma cannon at me! Woe is me! Whatever shall I do? Safety flips on, e-clips drop out of the weapons. electronic sights display bad targeting information. the weapon fires when pointed at the ground or sky, anywhere but at me or my friends." Sure, you could use it to subdue his friends, but I'd rather use it to commandeer a platoon of skelebots for reprogramming into my loyal henches, and then use THEM to subdue his buddies. After all, skelebots are supposed to be on their side, right? If anyone actually knew what they were doing, the CS would be fighting itself more than it fought anyone else.

Is this a possibility or would I need some extra power/ability I haven't thought of?

Nope, the telemechanics powers, and their pre-requisites, should be all you really need, though, as I said, other powers like electrokinesis are helpful, and psi-shield is always a bonus for protecting you as you close to within telemechanics range. Total recall is extremely helpful so that your character just remembers all the details, even if you yourself doesn't, and having a computer on your person with lots of storage space is also helpful as you can just dump knowledge that you've acquired from the Telemechanics power into that other computer's storage space for later study. Such information is worth fortunes to the right people.

P.S. I don;t want to have to pick more Telemechanic skills than needed and definitely don;t want to pick Telemechanic Possession.

While I don't get huge amounts of use from Possession, it still more useful than paralysis, and once you get to higher levels, it's a lot more useful, so I could understand waiting until later to choose it as one of your powers, but it's still quite useful. I'm curious though as to your reasoning for "definitely not wanting to take it?"

[Baron mugwort]

Thanks for all of your insightful and awesome answers Torjones, I don't want to spend another Super on Possession, I might pick it up later though