Portable Heavy Burst-Fire Weapons

[Hotrod]

I've been working on my Combat Cyborg NPC generator, and I've got a bit of an issue. My original intent for this generator was to use a rail gun as the default primary ranged weapon and provide five options for GMs to select. Since all the strike bonuses are provided in a shared table for these five weapons, they must all have the same intrinsic bonus to strike (I've chosen no bonus), and I'd like to provide a range of damage and range options. The current set I'm using is the following

Bandito Arms Bandit 5500 rail gun: 3D6 MD on a burst. Median damage: 10.5 MD
Northern Gun NG-101 rail gun: 6D6 on a burst. Median Damage: 21 MD
Triax TX-500 rail gun: 3D6 or 6D6 on a burst. Median Damage: 21 MD
Coalition CR-40 rail gun: 1D4x10 on a burst. Median Damage: 25 MD
Naruni N-200 Plasma Cartridge Machine Gun: 2D6x10 on a burst. Median Damage: 70 MD

The Naruni gun isn't a rail gun, but it uses the same weapon proficiency, fires bursts, and has no bonuses or penalties to strike, so I'm ok including it, though I'd prefer something a little more generic (the Wellington auto-grenade launcher has a -1 to strike, or I'd be all over it).

What's bugging me now is that the middle three rail guns are functionally almost the same (most cyborg-portable rail guns seem to have very similar stats). See how close their median damages are? Their ranges are also identical, and their payloads are pretty similar too. I'd like to have the second and fourth weapons have lower and higher damages, respectively, so that the median damage can go from 10 to 70 in a somewhat smoother fashion. Russia offers more options, but I want these weapon options to be in line with what a generic NPC in North America would use. Are there any other cyborg-portable heavy burst fire weapons out there that don't have bonuses or penalties to strike?

[DD The Shmey]

A simple 50 cal machine gun with ramjet rounds should be quite common, Rifts Main pg244 & Rifts Mercenaries pg 103 for the rounds,
.50 cal Heavy Machinegun, damage 7d6sdc per round, long burst 35d6 SDC, or with ramjet rounds, 1d4 MD per bullet, or 5d6 md for 40 round burst, Range: 3000ft, Weight: 30-100lbs

Free Quebec has two good ones you could use
WB22 Free Quebec
pg 46 - Q2-30 Rapid-Fire Heavy Laser, Damage: varies per length of burst from 3d6 for a single shot to 4d6x10 for a full 80 round clip burst, Range: 3000ft, Weight: 24lb, commonly used by FQ cyborgs
pg 48 - Q5-50 Light Rail Gun, Dam: 4d6 MD for 20 round burst, Range: 4000ft, Weight: 45lb +30lb for drum. Commonly used by FQ cyborgs, this one is similar to the one's you listed above with just a little less damage and less weight

The kittani K-500 railgun is nearly identical to the triax borg gun, and they also have an underwater one that does 1d4x10 with shorter range

The Colombians in WB6 have some rocket rifles (pg24), and can also fire wood ammo for anti vampire
RR-C40 Rocket rifle, Damage: 1d4x10 per burst of 10, Range: 1200ft, Weight: 21lbs
RAR-C14 Rocket Auto-Cannon Rifle, damage: 2d4x10 long burst of 20 rounds, Range: 2000ft, Weight: 50lbs
RA-C15 Rocket Auto-Cannon Damage: 2d6x10 for long burst of 20, Range: 2600ft, Weight: 70lbs

The Coalition also have a smaller railgun, WB11 pg 96
C-200 Dead Mans Railgun, Damage: 4d6 burst of 20, Range: 4000ft, Weight: 45lbs

[Mack]

Recommend checking Merc Ops. It has several rail guns in that range and a Wilks Laser Cannon.

[Hotrod]

I'd considered, but decided not to do Columbian rocket weapons or Quebec weapons, since those weapons are generally exclusive to those governments/regions. The CR-200 is almost perfect, but it comes with a +1 bonus to strike, which would throw off the bonus table; I could call it a scavenged skelebot gun without a functioning targeting system, but that would be house-ruling, which is something I avoid when making these NPC generators.

That said, I'd forgotten about the heavy ramjet rounds. Thanks, DD. That fits the middle-low-end very nicely.

Unfortunately, I don't have Merc Ops. However, I do have both NG books, and I haven't looked there yet. Thanks for the thought, Mack.

[DD The Shmey]

I've been working on my Combat Cyborg NPC generator, ...

I just checked out a few of your character generators, and they look cool. I remembered that in the Coalition Overkill book they had Typical CS Soldier Stats for a bunch of combat OCC's. They start on Page 39.

I realize that the Cyborg NPC generator for the you are working on right now is for more of a generic mercenary, non-affiliated adventurer type, but you could check out these other ones for inspirations on other NPC generators.

[Warshield73]

Recommend checking Merc Ops. It has several rail guns in that range and a Wilks Laser Cannon.

Mercenaries pg. 105 has a rapid fire grenade launcher that is a good choice. Also in Mercenaries pg. 100 and Northern Book is a heavy plasma ejector with a power backpack that is a great borg weapon.

[ShadowLogan]

Recommend checking Merc Ops. It has several rail guns in that range and a Wilks Laser Cannon.

Mercenaries pg. 105 has a rapid fire grenade launcher that is a good choice. Also in Mercenaries pg. 100 and Northern Book is a heavy plasma ejector with a power backpack that is a great borg weapon.

I second this suggestion on Grenade Launchers. Though if you are looking at energy weapons like Laser and Plasma, you might also want to look at some of the heavy particle beam weapon options (tend to fall short in range, but hit harder than lasers)

What's bugging me now is that the middle three rail guns are functionally almost the same

Palladium stats tend to do that using a stock range and damage figure (or set of) without much change other than a name and maybe payload or some other feature (like Wilk's getting a bonus to strike on aimed shots).

[Warshield73]

What's bugging me now is that the middle three rail guns are functionally almost the same

Palladium stats tend to do that using a stock range and damage figure (or set of) without much change other than a name and maybe payload or some other feature (like Wilk's getting a bonus to strike on aimed shots).

This has always been my biggest issue with Rifts weapons. When making weapons they should really diversify all the stats with each manufacturer having a sort of trademark. One makes light weapons with large payload, another heavier weapons with more damage, another in the middle with long range instead of every laser rifle having a 2000 foot range.

[Hotrod]

I've been working on my Combat Cyborg NPC generator, ...

I just checked out a few of your character generators, and they look cool. I remembered that in the Coalition Overkill book they had Typical CS Soldier Stats for a bunch of combat OCC's. They start on Page 39.

I realize that the Cyborg NPC generator for the you are working on right now is for more of a generic mercenary, non-affiliated adventurer type, but you could check out these other ones for inspirations on other NPC generators.

Thanks! I agree, the collection of typical NPC's was a nice touch in SoT 2, and it worked well as a specific set of NPC types for CS Special Forces units. The scope of my generators is broader, so I prefer a more adaptable and scale-able approach. I may go back and do a few other CS NPC generators too at some point, though I'm not sure which specific ones I'd want to do next.

[Hotrod]

Recommend checking Merc Ops. It has several rail guns in that range and a Wilks Laser Cannon.

Mercenaries pg. 105 has a rapid fire grenade launcher that is a good choice. Also in Mercenaries pg. 100 and Northern Book is a heavy plasma ejector with a power backpack that is a great borg weapon.

The auto grenade launcher is an awesome weapon, but its -1 to strike would throw off the bonuses.

The Plasma Ejector will likely be one of several weapons I include with the Scout variant, which will include single-shot, heavy energy weapons.

I've finished the rough draft of the basic Combat Cyborg NPC generator. Thanks for the help, everybody!

[Mack]

The auto grenade launcher is an awesome weapon, but its -1 to strike would throw off the bonuses.

This would be an inelegant solution, but you could just add a '-1 Str' to the weapon description block. Then the user knows to subtract 1 from the table.

[Hotrod]

The auto grenade launcher is an awesome weapon, but its -1 to strike would throw off the bonuses.

This would be an inelegant solution, but you could just add a '-1 Str' to the weapon description block. Then the user knows to subtract 1 from the table.

True, or I could house-rule a kitbashed weapon sight that negates the penalty to strike, but I don't much care for that approach. The whole purpose to these generators is to make life easy for GMs so that they don't have to mess with adding and subtracting bonuses. I hate to compromise that principle for one cool gun, especially since such that gun is exceptionally powerful (GB-levels of area effect damage in a single attack ), and my main point of this project is to create disposable NPCs.

If I can think of a way to include it in the variants page, and if I have space, I might throw it in there. Otherwise, I see the auto-grenade launcher as a pretty unique weapon that's a low priority for including in a disposable, generic NPC generator.

[ShadowLogan]

The auto grenade launcher is an awesome weapon, but its -1 to strike would throw off the bonuses.

This would be an inelegant solution, but you could just add a '-1 Str' to the weapon description block. Then the user knows to subtract 1 from the table.

True, or I could house-rule a kitbashed weapon sight that negates the penalty to strike, but I don't much care for that approach. The whole purpose to these generators is to make life easy for GMs so that they don't have to mess with adding and subtracting bonuses. I hate to compromise that principle for one cool gun, especially since such that gun is exceptionally powerful (GB-levels of area effect damage in a single attack ), and my main point of this project is to create disposable NPCs.

If I can think of a way to include it in the variants page, and if I have space, I might throw it in there. Otherwise, I see the auto-grenade launcher as a pretty unique weapon that's a low priority for including in a disposable, generic NPC generator.

You're sure that it is a flat -1 strike for everyone, or is it just those with a low PS rating. I know there are a lot of heavy weapons have a PS requirement that those w/o it are a penalty to strike. Is it possible that the -1 strike is intended for those circumstances?

Another way around it that it just uses the tri-pod version (IINM you are talking about the WI-GL20/GL21, the WI-GL20 can be used with a tripod) since it doesn't have that problem. Though it isn't as portable.

[Hotrod]

The auto grenade launcher is an awesome weapon, but its -1 to strike would throw off the bonuses.

This would be an inelegant solution, but you could just add a '-1 Str' to the weapon description block. Then the user knows to subtract 1 from the table.

True, or I could house-rule a kitbashed weapon sight that negates the penalty to strike, but I don't much care for that approach. The whole purpose to these generators is to make life easy for GMs so that they don't have to mess with adding and subtracting bonuses. I hate to compromise that principle for one cool gun, especially since such that gun is exceptionally powerful (GB-levels of area effect damage in a single attack ), and my main point of this project is to create disposable NPCs.

If I can think of a way to include it in the variants page, and if I have space, I might throw it in there. Otherwise, I see the auto-grenade launcher as a pretty unique weapon that's a low priority for including in a disposable, generic NPC generator.

You're sure that it is a flat -1 strike for everyone, or is it just those with a low PS rating. I know there are a lot of heavy weapons have a PS requirement that those w/o it are a penalty to strike. Is it possible that the -1 strike is intended for those circumstances?

Another way around it that it just uses the tri-pod version (IINM you are talking about the WI-GL20/GL21, the WI-GL20 can be used with a tripod) since it doesn't have that problem. Though it isn't as portable.

Yeah, it's -1 to strike for those with sufficient strength of 22, and that strength is a "must have." The tripod version would work, but its immobility would make it a significant change from the other options and rather defeat the purpose, as any unaugmented person could shoot that without penalty. Even if I could make the rifle version work, I'm not sure that I would want to include it. It's a potent weapon, but just doesn't quite fit with what I'm trying to do in this NPC generator. One of the variants I'll be making is an explosives-focused heavy one that will be a better match for something like this. We'll see.

[ShadowLogan]

@Hotrod
Then if the -1 to strike is from a deficiency in the PS score, wouldn't raising it avoid needing to worry about it in any fashion? Actually looking at your sheet it looks like it already has the PS requirement met, making it a non-issue.

Something else to consider is that per your sheet the Cyborgs all have Robot Level PS, what level of PS is assumed for the WI-GL21? Since there are instances of PS requirements varying based on level (this case doesn't list).

As for the Tri-Pod. I agree it probably would not "fit" with the other weapons on the list, but then again if you have something in the BFG Boomgun level having a drawback might make some sense (and a -1 to strike isn't that much of a drawback).

[Hotrod]

@Hotrod
Then if the -1 to strike is from a deficiency in the PS score, wouldn't raising it avoid needing to worry about it in any fashion? Actually looking at your sheet it looks like it already has the PS requirement met, making it a non-issue.

Something else to consider is that per your sheet the Cyborgs all have Robot Level PS, what level of PS is assumed for the WI-GL21? Since there are instances of PS requirements varying based on level (this case doesn't list).

As for the Tri-Pod. I agree it probably would not "fit" with the other weapons on the list, but then again if you have something in the BFG Boomgun level having a drawback might make some sense (and a -1 to strike isn't that much of a drawback).

From Mercenaries, p105
"A rifle model, the WI-GL21, is made for use with power armor and cyborg soldiers and is fundamentally the same as the WI-GL20, except the user must have a P.S. of 22 or higher, is -1 to strike and the rifle model cannot use the ammo-belt fed system."

I read that to mean that someone with a P.S. of 21 cannot use it, while someone with a P.S. of 22 can, but at -1 to strike.

I don't disagree that having a stationary gunner could be nice, and it would be something I haven't done yet with these NPC generators, but I think it would be more fitting for a mercenary fighter than a combat cyborg NPC generator.

[Killer Cyborg]

@Hotrod
Then if the -1 to strike is from a deficiency in the PS score, wouldn't raising it avoid needing to worry about it in any fashion? Actually looking at your sheet it looks like it already has the PS requirement met, making it a non-issue.

Something else to consider is that per your sheet the Cyborgs all have Robot Level PS, what level of PS is assumed for the WI-GL21? Since there are instances of PS requirements varying based on level (this case doesn't list).

As for the Tri-Pod. I agree it probably would not "fit" with the other weapons on the list, but then again if you have something in the BFG Boomgun level having a drawback might make some sense (and a -1 to strike isn't that much of a drawback).

From Mercenaries, p105
"A rifle model, the WI-GL21, is made for use with power armor and cyborg soldiers and is fundamentally the same as the WI-GL20, except the user must have a P.S. of 22 or higher, is -1 to strike and the rifle model cannot use the ammo-belt fed system."

I read that to mean that someone with a P.S. of 21 cannot use it, while someone with a P.S. of 22 can, but at -1 to strike.

That is the correct interpretation of the quoted text.

Maybe a +1 targeting system of some kind could compensate, breaking out at +0?

[ShadowLogan]

From Mercenaries, p105
"A rifle model, the WI-GL21, is made for use with power armor and cyborg soldiers and is fundamentally the same as the WI-GL20, except the user must have a P.S. of 22 or higher, is -1 to strike and the rifle model cannot use the ammo-belt fed system."

I read that to mean that someone with a P.S. of 21 cannot use it, while someone with a P.S. of 22 can, but at -1 to strike.

I don't disagree that having a stationary gunner could be nice, and it would be something I haven't done yet with these NPC generators, but I think it would be more fitting for a mercenary fighter than a combat cyborg NPC generator.

While by RAW I can agree with this interpretation, it seems "off". IINM the weapon is heavy at ~130lbs, and the few weapons w/n 30lbs of it don't operate this way, even ones that are heavier. The -1 strike might be from awkward design (rare, but it exists IINM), but generally PS requirements don't work with cut offs like this. And if it is a PS requirement, the 'borgs Augmented or Robotic PS would be more than sufficient to ignore this (there are SN NPCs that use the WI-GL20 variant and don't mention the -1 penalty and seem to use it as a gunpod).

Maybe a +1 targeting system of some kind could compensate, breaking out at +0?

Does a targeting system exist that would apply to bursts that could be mounted? Even in RMB, I think most examples that come to mind apply to aimed shots.

[rem1093]

From Mercenaries, p105
"A rifle model, the WI-GL21, is made for use with power armor and cyborg soldiers and is fundamentally the same as the WI-GL20, except the user must have a P.S. of 22 or higher, is -1 to strike and the rifle model cannot use the ammo-belt fed system."

I read that to mean that someone with a P.S. of 21 cannot use it, while someone with a P.S. of 22 can, but at -1 to strike.

I don't disagree that having a stationary gunner could be nice, and it would be something I haven't done yet with these NPC generators, but I think it would be more fitting for a mercenary fighter than a combat cyborg NPC generator.

While by RAW I can agree with this interpretation, it seems "off". IINM the weapon is heavy at ~130lbs, and the few weapons w/n 30lbs of it don't operate this way, even ones that are heavier. The -1 strike might be from awkward design (rare, but it exists IINM), but generally PS requirements don't work with cut offs like this. And if it is a PS requirement, the 'borgs Augmented or Robotic PS would be more than sufficient to ignore this (there are SN NPCs that use the WI-GL20 variant and don't mention the -1 penalty and seem to use it as a gunpod).

Maybe a +1 targeting system of some kind could compensate, breaking out at +0?

Does a targeting system exist that would apply to bursts that could be mounted? Even in RMB, I think most examples that come to mind apply to aimed shots.

Doesn't the custom grip give a +1 to strike. Also, i'm surprised that the Black Markets, BigBore guns haven't bin mentioned yet?

[Hotrod]

From Mercenaries, p105
"A rifle model, the WI-GL21, is made for use with power armor and cyborg soldiers and is fundamentally the same as the WI-GL20, except the user must have a P.S. of 22 or higher, is -1 to strike and the rifle model cannot use the ammo-belt fed system."

I read that to mean that someone with a P.S. of 21 cannot use it, while someone with a P.S. of 22 can, but at -1 to strike.

I don't disagree that having a stationary gunner could be nice, and it would be something I haven't done yet with these NPC generators, but I think it would be more fitting for a mercenary fighter than a combat cyborg NPC generator.

While by RAW I can agree with this interpretation, it seems "off". IINM the weapon is heavy at ~130lbs, and the few weapons w/n 30lbs of it don't operate this way, even ones that are heavier. The -1 strike might be from awkward design (rare, but it exists IINM), but generally PS requirements don't work with cut offs like this. And if it is a PS requirement, the 'borgs Augmented or Robotic PS would be more than sufficient to ignore this (there are SN NPCs that use the WI-GL20 variant and don't mention the -1 penalty and seem to use it as a gunpod).

Maybe a +1 targeting system of some kind could compensate, breaking out at +0?

Does a targeting system exist that would apply to bursts that could be mounted? Even in RMB, I think most examples that come to mind apply to aimed shots.

Doesn't the custom grip give a +1 to strike. Also, i'm surprised that the Black Markets, BigBore guns haven't bin mentioned yet?

All good points. Yes, this weapon system's relationship with strength doesn't follow precedent. If I were making a unique NPC or player character, I'd certainly consider optimizing and customizing such a weapon. I make these NPC generators according to rules-as-written and content-as-written to the greatest extent possible.

For those looking to make NPCs or PCs that use this weapon and are looking for a book-legal or book-plausible way of countering the penalty, there is a weapon-specific sight that offer an across-the-board +1 to strike, and it's reasonable that such a weapon could be removed and adapted to other weapons. I think it's a Triax weapon system.

As for the BigBore weapons, they comes with a bunch of special knockdown rules that I don't care to include in the NPC generator out of space concerns.

[Hotrod]

So I got out my NG books today and made my final adjustments to the list:

Bandit 5500 (3D6 burst) median of 10.5
50 Cal Ramjet Machine Gun (5D6 burst) median of 17.5
NG-202 (1D4x10 burst) median of 25
NG-404 (1D6x10 burst) median of 35
Naruni NE-200 (2D6x10 burst) median of 70

The NG-202 is supposed to be the most common rail gun in North America according to NG1, and the 404 seemed like an appropriate upper-tier rail gun. The 404 does have a minimum strength of 30, but that seems reasonable for an upper-tier cyborg rail gun.

I briefly considered, then rejected, using the rifle version of the Rail Cannon in NG1 (1D6x10+3 per single shot) because a cyborg can only use it at or close to maximum strength (35).

Thanks to everyone for the help! Now I just have to figure out five options for handheld grenade and missile launchers for the first variant, but I'm sure I'll find something.