Character: Isao Kamikamite - Setting and Rules Questions

Seartethel · Unread post by **Seartethel** » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:44 pm

Hello! As you can see I'm a new forum member. I've been interested in Rifts for a few years but have never had a chance to play, and likely won't have a chance in the foreseeable future. To give this post some context: I don't know a ton about the Rifts setting, just some basic stuff and what I've happened to pick up in the course of perusing forums and rulebooks. To give you an idea of what I'm used to, I play Pathfinder regularly, but I've always enjoye diving into the rules of more niche RPGs. Rather than going to Reddit, I decided to make an account here to share a character I've built and ask some questions since I prefer this kind of forum environment and from lurking I've seen an impressive number of long time fans of the game, who I hope will be able to help! On that note, thanks in advance to anyone reading this. :lol:

Before I go any further, I want to point out that I did see this moderator reply in another recent thread:

Mack wrote:Please don't post character stats without any accompanying discussion points.

Things to consider:
-- Why are you sharing this?
-- What about it do you wish to discuss?
-- Is there something unique or odd you find intriguing?
-- Why should others take time to examine it?

I hope what I'm doing here is acceptable. I do have several specific rules questions, along with some background and general Rifts experience questions to go along with the character below, but of course I will leave it to the Moderators to decide what is appropriate

上々手・治 (Isao Kamikamite)
given name first when written in English, second when written in kanji. No special significance, beyond vague thematic matching of the kanjis' general meaning and what sounded nice.

Spoiler:

Character Concept
Chagi is a Sohei Warrior Monk (obviously), but aside from that is a musician (singer and shamisen player), and an armature Anthropologist.Along with this she is a bit of a writer, as this is part of both of her interests, as well as her spiritual journey. This is all obvious from her selection of skills. She has been sent to NA my her Lord to do research/reconnaissance, though I'd imagine she'd get involved with the locals. Basically she's built for a hypothetical campaign of, I think, middling power lever set in NA, probably near/in the CS since they seem interesting. I'd hope to make use of her interesting mix of out of combat skills.

Background Questions
1: Travel between continents in Rifts Earth is hard, from what I've heard (I tend to read RPGs mostly for the rules and pick up stuff about the setting as I go, sorry about that

). How would someone get from Japan to NA? What's the most mundane, feasible means you can think of?

2: Do you have any experience with a "foreign observer" sort of character like this? How'd it go?

3: How would the locals react to a character like Isao (assuming she was in/arround the CS)? Would she be a fugitive or just an exotic foreigner? How xenophobic are the civilians and personal of the CS toward humans from other parts of the world?

4: Do the CS have an issue with minor Psionics? are they distrusted or actively hunted? What about powers like "Chi" (which use PPE in the Japan rules).

5: what sort of campaign (in NA) would you see Isao fitting into?

Rules Questions
1: Isao's skin has an Natural AC of 18 but she can also turn her SDC and HP into MD temporarily (Chi-Gung Body hardening Exercise). From reading this forum I've gathered that this means that the Nat AC will be irrelevant while her skin is MD, but I wanted to ask specifically: is this correct?

2: The rules say specifically that skills do not receive the "+X% per level" bonus at lvl 1, but what about other things that say "+X per level of experience"? You get +1D6 HP at every level including 1, the rules are explicit there, but the Sohei Monk gets 3xPE + 1D6 per level of experience in bonus PPE. At level 1 is this bonus 3xPE or 3xPE+1D6? I assumed the latter . . .

3: when you gain a skill at a later level, the rules say it starts at lvl 1. I assume this means that you get just the base skill value, then add the +X% per level for the first time the next time you level up. Is this correct?

4: It seems to me that the bonus to Strike applies to all attacks made in hand to hand, is this correct? what about attacks that are not granted by your Hand to Hand skill, but by other abilities (like the Chagi body hardening exercise)? does the bonus to strike from Jujitsu apply to kicks that Chagi gives access to, but Jujitsu does not? Am I misinterpreting that Chagi gives access to kicks at all and only increases the damage of the listed kicks if you already have access to them?

5: For attacks with melee weapons, do you add the strike/parry bonuses from your Hand to Hand skill and Weapon Proficiency together? Or is Isao significantly worse with her staff than with throwing punches?

6: Jujitsu grants a +2 Damage bonus at lvl 4 (i think it's lvl4?). Does this bonus apply to all hand to hand combat attacks? what about kicks granted by Chagi but not by Jujitsu? What about attacks made with a melee weapon? What about MD kicks (Chagi gives you those)?

7: What do you think is the power level of this character? I was hoping it would be low/moderate but the Body Hardening Exercises seem rather powerful. I did remove the MDC armor, but 70,000 Credits in exchange for that (the median of the armor's value of 50,000-100,000 credits) is a power spike in its own way. As someone who's essentially new to the game I don't have a good way of judging power level.

Edit: 8: Have you ever started a campaign at a level beyond 1? Does this work well in Rifts? I find that in most RPGs with a level system the first few levels are rather uninteresting. I see that in Rifts the OCCs power is much more frontloaded, but that just makes it all the easier to justify starting a few levels in so you can get a few extra options for fun, in my opinion.

Final Note
Thanks to anyone who read all of this (sorry for the wall of text)! Also, another apology to the Moderator staff if they feel this thread isn't relevant to the forum.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:23 pm

Seartethel wrote:Hello! As you can see I'm a new forum member.

Welcome to the Forums, hopefully you enjoy your stay.

Seartethel wrote:I've been interested in Rifts for a few years but have never had a chance to play, and likely won't have a chance in the foreseeable future. To give this post some context: I don't know a ton about the Rifts setting, just some basic stuff and what I've happened to pick up in the course of perusing forums and rulebooks. To give you an idea of what I'm used to, I play Pathfinder regularly, but I've always enjoye diving into the rules of more niche RPGs. Rather than going to Reddit, I decided to make an account here to share a character I've built and ask some questions since I prefer this kind of forum environment and from lurking I've seen an impressive number of long time fans of the game, who I hope will be able to help! On that note, thanks in advance to anyone reading this.

Before I go any further, I want to point out that I did see this moderator reply in another recent thread:
Mack wrote:Please don't post character stats without any accompanying discussion points.

Things to consider:
-- Why are you sharing this?
-- What about it do you wish to discuss?
-- Is there something unique or odd you find intriguing?
-- Why should others take time to examine it?

I hope what I'm doing here is acceptable. I do have several specific rules questions, along with some background and general Rifts experience questions to go along with the character below, but of course I will leave it to the Moderators to decide what is appropriate

You should be good. This is exactly the sort of thing that posting a character would be for. My only suggestion is that in the future you put the character stats block in a

Spoiler:

so that reading the replies isn't a slog through pages and pages of stats.
Now, on to the questions

-----
Stat block spoilered for space

Spoiler:

-----

Character Concept
Chagi is a Sohei Warrior Monk (obviously), but aside from that is a musician (singer and shamisen player), and an armature Anthropologist.Along with this she is a bit of a writer, as this is part of both of her interests, as well as her spiritual journey. This is all obvious from her selection of skills. She has been sent to NA my her Lord to do research/reconnaissance, though I'd imagine she'd get involved with the locals. Basically she's built for a hypothetical campaign of, I think, middling power lever set in NA, probably near/in the CS since they seem interesting. I'd hope to make use of her interesting mix of out of combat skills.

Background Questions
1: Travel between continents in Rifts Earth is hard, from what I've heard (I tend to read RPGs mostly for the rules and pick up stuff about the setting as I go, sorry about that

). How would someone get from Japan to NA? What's the most mundane, feasible means you can think of?[/quote]
Rifts are easy, we know that they can cross continents so that's the easy way. Especially easy since the Monks are friends with the Kyoto Tree of life. Which can control any rift on its ley lines if I recall correctly. The Tree could send her to a nexus in North America quite easily

Seartethel wrote:2: Do you have any experience with a "foreign observer" sort of character like this? How'd it go?

They can be tricky, but fun. One issue that can crop up quickly is that unfamiliarity's can be deadly. For example she would not know that the CS is likely to shoot her on sight, simply for having a magic leaf!

Seartethel wrote:3: How would the locals react to a character like Isao (assuming she was in/arround the CS)? Would she be a fugitive or just an exotic foreigner? How xenophobic are the civilians and personal of the CS toward humans from other parts of the world?

She would be an exotic, likely a dangerous outlaw one to the CS and its allied governments. The CS is a dangerous place though for a literate, magic loving philosopher... ask Erin Tarn!
The other issue she will have is that the CS and its allies are very Tech oriented. She will feel like she is in the Republic while in their areas. A grim, dark and repressive version of the Republic.

Seartethel wrote:4: Do the CS have an issue with minor Psionics? are they distrusted or actively hunted? What about powers like "Chi" (which use PPE in the Japan rules).

There is no canon status on Chi per se..., but her massive reserve of PPE will set off the Dog Boys and they will likely assume that she is a mage... which is likely to be deadly.
The CS is leery of minor psychics, but the registration is not mandatory.

Seartethel wrote:5: what sort of campaign (in NA) would you see Isao fitting into?

She seems the perfect fit to join a Cyber-Knight or two, and some D-Bee scholars and do some exploration, or try to teach literacy...or honestly she would do well in the Siege of Tolkeen storyline. The moral questions, the civilians that need defending and evacuating... that sounds like the sort of thing she might do well with.

Seartethel wrote:Rules Questions
1: Isao's skin has an Natural AC of 18 but she can also turn her SDC and HP into MD temporarily (Chi-Gung Body hardening Exercise). From reading this forum I've gathered that this means that the Nat AC will be irrelevant while her skin is MD, but I wanted to ask specifically: is this correct?

Correct.

Seartethel wrote:2: The rules say specifically that skills do not receive the "+X% per level" bonus at lvl 1, but what about other things that say "+X per level of experience"? You get +1D6 HP at every level including 1, the rules are explicit there, but the Sohei Monk gets 3xPE + 1D6 per level of experience in bonus PPE. At level 1 is this bonus 3xPE or 3xPE+1D6? I assumed the latter . . .

That is a GM call as far as I know. That said, as a GM I would probably grant the extra HP.

Seartethel wrote:3: when you gain a skill at a later level, the rules say it starts at lvl 1. I assume this means that you get just the base skill value, then add the +X% per level for the first time the next time you level up. Is this correct?

Correct

Seartethel wrote:4: It seems to me that the bonus to Strike applies to all attacks made in hand to hand, is this correct? what about attacks that are not granted by your Hand to Hand skill, but by other abilities (like the Chagi body hardening exercise)? does the bonus to strike from Jujitsu apply to kicks that Chagi gives access to, but Jujitsu does not? Am I misinterpreting that Chagi gives access to kicks at all and only increases the damage of the listed kicks if you already have access to them?

Bonuses to Strike apply to all strikes unless the rules say otherwise. Thus hand to hand, weapons, etc. The main exception is Ranged Combat which uses its own rules to generate strikes.

Seartethel wrote:5: For attacks with melee weapons, do you add the strike/parry bonuses from your Hand to Hand skill and Weapon Proficiency together? Or is Isao significantly worse with her staff than with throwing punches?

All bonuses are cumulative unless otherwise specified.

Seartethel wrote:6: Jujitsu grants a +2 Damage bonus at lvl 4 (i think it's lvl4?). Does this bonus apply to all hand to hand combat attacks? what about kicks granted by Chagi but not by Jujitsu? What about attacks made with a melee weapon? What about MD kicks (Chagi gives you those)?

That applies to all attacks in melee combat (H2H). The MDC issue would be a GM call, but I would say, off hand, yes. But that is just my calling it, not a solidly rules based answer.

Seartethel wrote:7: What do you think is the power level of this character? I was hoping it would be low/moderate but the Body Hardening Exercises seem rather powerful. I did remove the MDC armor, but 70,000 Credits in exchange for that (the median of the armor's value of 50,000-100,000 credits) is a power spike in its own way. As someone who's essentially new to the game I don't have a good way of judging power level.

This character isn't all that powerful honestly. They are about on par with a Juicer, a Crazy, a Cyber-Knight, a Mystic Knight... aka they are comfortably in the lower middle class of power. I say that because while they can temporarally become MDC... in general they are not. This is no different than a mage and their spells.

Seartethel wrote:Edit: 8: Have you ever started a campaign at a level beyond 1? Does this work well in Rifts? I find that in most RPGs with a level system the first few levels are rather uninteresting. I see that in Rifts the OCCs power is much more frontloaded, but that just makes it all the easier to justify starting a few levels in so you can get a few extra options for fun, in my opinion.

I routinely grant my players between 5,000 and 10,000 XP or so to build their characters with. This gives me slightly better than average people who thus 'stand out from the crowd'. Especially considering that almost every NPC has levels!
As you stated, much power is front loaded so one or two levels often wont make a huge difference. But some classes can get pretty powerful quickly... fortunately they tend to have high XP costs, which is why I grant a flat XP pool and not levels

Seartethel wrote:Final Note
Thanks to anyone who read all of this (sorry for the wall of text)! Also, another apology to the Moderator staff if they feel this thread isn't relevant to the forum.

Seartethel · Unread post by **Seartethel** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:50 am

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:Hello! As you can see I'm a new forum member.

Welcome to the Forums, hopefully you enjoy your stay.

Thanks! I was impressed by the concentration of long-time players around here, and I do prefer a forum environment like this to, say, reddit, so I'll be around (assuming I can stay interested in Rifts without anyone to play with).

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:Background Questions
1: Travel between continents in Rifts Earth is hard, from what I've heard (I tend to read RPGs mostly for the rules and pick up stuff about the setting as I go, sorry about that ). How would someone get from Japan to NA? What's the most mundane, feasible means you can think of?

Rifts are easy, we know that they can cross continents so that's the easy way. Especially easy since the Monks are friends with the Kyoto Tree of life. Which can control any rift on its ley lines if I recall correctly. The Tree could send her to a nexus in North America quite easily

Ah, that makes sense. Glad I wouldn't have to pull anything too strange to make the character work.

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:2: Do you have any experience with a "foreign observer" sort of character like this? How'd it go?

They can be tricky, but fun. One issue that can crop up quickly is that unfamiliarity's can be deadly. For example she would not know that the CS is likely to shoot her on sight, simply for having a magic leaf!

As I mentioned, I did exchange the leaf armor for CS credits, partially to lower power level even further, and partly to help blend in a bit

though the Staff of Defense is very much still magic. I think it'd be fun to play around with, if the group was properly set up for it and willing. It'd be some interesting tension, and it seems a lot of people that are native to NA anyway get beat on by the CS.

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:3: How would the locals react to a character like Isao (assuming she was in/arround the CS)? Would she be a fugitive or just an exotic foreigner? How xenophobic are the civilians and personal of the CS toward humans from other parts of the world?

She would be an exotic, likely a dangerous outlaw one to the CS and its allied governments. The CS is a dangerous place though for a literate, magic loving philosopher... ask Erin Tarn!
The other issue she will have is that the CS and its allies are very Tech oriented. She will feel like she is in the Republic while in their areas. A grim, dark and repressive version of the Republic.

Well, among other things I'm one of those people that loves Warhammer 40,000 so I have some idea what a dark govt. looks like

though of course the Imperium is, well, an imperium and not a republic. Part of the reason I decided on the Literacy and Writing skills was that the Writing skill specifically mentions it's good for political movements and the like!

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:4: Do the CS have an issue with minor Psionics? are they distrusted or actively hunted? What about powers like "Chi" (which use PPE in the Japan rules).

There is no canon status on Chi per se..., but her massive reserve of PPE will set off the Dog Boys and they will likely assume that she is a mage... which is likely to be deadly.
The CS is leery of minor psychics, but the registration is not mandatory.

Ah, I'd not thought of that! I didn't realize they sniffed out not just spellcasting ability but the size of a person's PPE reserve. Yeah, her OCC gives her a nice chunk. Personally though, I think this kind of thing could be fun to play around with, as long as the group doesn't just get itself killed (and the GM doesn't make it too hard to survive). Personally I enjoy that Isao uses both ISP and PPE in minor ways, without being a full psionic or even a real spellcaster.

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:5: what sort of campaign (in NA) would you see Isao fitting into?

She seems the perfect fit to join a Cyber-Knight or two, and some D-Bee scholars and do some exploration, or try to teach literacy...or honestly she would do well in the Siege of Tolkeen storyline. The moral questions, the civilians that need defending and evacuating... that sounds like the sort of thing she might do well with.

Neat, from what I've heard about the Tolkeen supplements, well I'd have to look into them more but I'm not usually interested in prescripted event lines that change the nature of the setting. I'd rather explore the CS from a more mundane point of view, but perhaps that time period would be an interesting backdrop.

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:Rules Questions
1: Isao's skin has an Natural AC of 18 but she can also turn her SDC and HP into MD temporarily (Chi-Gung Body hardening Exercise). From reading this forum I've gathered that this means that the Nat AC will be irrelevant while her skin is MD, but I wanted to ask specifically: is this correct?

Correct.

Awesome. Thanks!

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:2: The rules say specifically that skills do not receive the "+X% per level" bonus at lvl 1, but what about other things that say "+X per level of experience"? You get +1D6 HP at every level including 1, the rules are explicit there, but the Sohei Monk gets 3xPE + 1D6 per level of experience in bonus PPE. At level 1 is this bonus 3xPE or 3xPE+1D6? I assumed the latter . . .

That is a GM call as far as I know. That said, as a GM I would probably grant the extra HP.

Makes sense. I build the character under the assumption that anything that didn't specifically say wasn't added at 1 was (so everything but skills

). For the moment since Isao was just built for fun, the "GM decisions" fall to me.

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:3: when you gain a skill at a later level, the rules say it starts at lvl 1. I assume this means that you get just the base skill value, then add the +X% per level for the first time the next time you level up. Is this correct?

Correct

Thanks! Just want to make sure I'm understanding things properly, always tricky with a new system like this (and rifts has some . . . eclectic ways of wording and organizing rules).

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:4: It seems to me that the bonus to Strike applies to all attacks made in hand to hand, is this correct? what about attacks that are not granted by your Hand to Hand skill, but by other abilities (like the Chagi body hardening exercise)? does the bonus to strike from Jujitsu apply to kicks that Chagi gives access to, but Jujitsu does not? Am I misinterpreting that Chagi gives access to kicks at all and only increases the damage of the listed kicks if you already have access to them?

Bonuses to Strike apply to all strikes unless the rules say otherwise. Thus hand to hand, weapons, etc. The main exception is Ranged Combat which uses its own rules to generate strikes.

Seartethel wrote:5: For attacks with melee weapons, do you add the strike/parry bonuses from your Hand to Hand skill and Weapon Proficiency together? Or is Isao significantly worse with her staff than with throwing punches?

All bonuses are cumulative unless otherwise specified.

These turned out to be basically the same question it seems. Thanks for clearing this up, I was pretty confused. Seems I got it right on the character sheet though!

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:6: Jujitsu grants a +2 Damage bonus at lvl 4 (i think it's lvl4?). Does this bonus apply to all hand to hand combat attacks? what about kicks granted by Chagi but not by Jujitsu? What about attacks made with a melee weapon? What about MD kicks (Chagi gives you those)?

That applies to all attacks in melee combat (H2H). The MDC issue would be a GM call, but I would say, off hand, yes. But that is just my calling it, not a solidly rules based answer.

I figured it might come down to GM decision. I mean RAW I don't see a reason it shouldn't and when you're already getting 6D6 MD from a roundhouse, +2 MD more isn't a huge deal (can't wait to see the look on a coalition grunt's face . . . :lol:

).

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:7: What do you think is the power level of this character? I was hoping it would be low/moderate but the Body Hardening Exercises seem rather powerful. I did remove the MDC armor, but 70,000 Credits in exchange for that (the median of the armor's value of 50,000-100,000 credits) is a power spike in its own way. As someone who's essentially new to the game I don't have a good way of judging power level.

This character isn't all that powerful honestly. They are about on par with a Juicer, a Crazy, a Cyber-Knight, a Mystic Knight... aka they are comfortably in the lower middle class of power. I say that because while they can temporarally become MDC... in general they are not. This is no different than a mage and their spells.

Excellent. This is exactly what I was hoping for. I really like the idea of a campaign that plays the line between SDC and MDC, so we get to see both in action. MD is only impressive if you have SDC running around to compare it to, in my opinion. It also highlights the blend of sci-fi and fantasy going on, which is part of what I think seems cool about Rifts.

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:Edit: 8: Have you ever started a campaign at a level beyond 1? Does this work well in Rifts? I find that in most RPGs with a level system the first few levels are rather uninteresting. I see that in Rifts the OCCs power is much more frontloaded, but that just makes it all the easier to justify starting a few levels in so you can get a few extra options for fun, in my opinion.

I routinely grant my players between 5,000 and 10,000 XP or so to build their characters with. This gives me slightly better than average people who thus 'stand out from the crowd'. Especially considering that almost every NPC has levels!
As you stated, much power is front loaded so one or two levels often wont make a huge difference. But some classes can get pretty powerful quickly... fortunately they tend to have high XP costs, which is why I grant a flat XP pool and not levels

This makes a good bit of sense. Though . . . which XP table would the Sohei Monk use? I don't see any in World Book: Japan, and the OCC never calls out which one to use.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply! I appreciate the help.

Other Questions
(From above) Which XP table would the Sohei Warrior Monk OCC use? I didn't see any in Rifts: Japan.

For starting HP, I decided to use the rules from the original Rifts main rulebook, but I wasn't sure if the Sohei Monk was a Man at Arms or a Scholar/Adventurer. I guessed the former and went with that when I built the character. Also, if I was to use the RUE rules for starting HP, Isao would simply get 2D6+12 since her OCC doesn't say anything at all about starting/bonus HP, correct?

Is it really worth buying a ranged weapon (I was thinking a pistol of some sort, since Isao has Concealment) for a character that doesn't have access to any of the modern weapon proficiencies? I think it'd be a useful thing to have, and since I gave currency in exchange for her armor, she could afford something and without she has no way to do ranged damage at all.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:57 am

Seartethel wrote:(From above) Which XP table would the Sohei Warrior Monk OCC use? I didn't see any in Rifts: Japan.

The XP Table is in Rifts Japan, last page (pg216), first column and middle entry. The Sohei shares the same XP table with a few other classes (not unusual in Palladium system), there is a typo I think with the placement of a comma, but Sohei is in the list.

Seartethel wrote:Is it really worth buying a ranged weapon (I was thinking a pistol of some sort, since Isao has Concealment) for a character that doesn't have access to any of the modern weapon proficiencies? I think it'd be a useful thing to have, and since I gave currency in exchange for her armor, she could afford something and without she has no way to do ranged damage at all.

Ranged weapons can be worth it, but at the same time they might feel out of character (and reviewing the OCC I'd say it would be out of character). One of the potential issues with modern ranged weapons is that without the associated WP skill there are drawbacks:
-takes penalties to their strike roll when firing
-can not make aimed or called shots
-can not maintain the weapon, this includes reloading the weapon
-they have no bonus to strike and is a straight die roll (this might also include any inheriant bonus found in some guns)

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:30 pm

Seartethel wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:5: what sort of campaign (in NA) would you see Isao fitting into?

She seems the perfect fit to join a Cyber-Knight or two, and some D-Bee scholars and do some exploration, or try to teach literacy...or honestly she would do well in the Siege of Tolkeen storyline. The moral questions, the civilians that need defending and evacuating... that sounds like the sort of thing she might do well with.

Neat, from what I've heard about the Tolkeen supplements, well I'd have to look into them more but I'm not usually interested in prescripted event lines that change the nature of the setting. I'd rather explore the CS from a more mundane point of view, but perhaps that time period would be an interesting backdrop.

The nice thing about the Tolkeen books is that with just a little elbow grease they 'pre-scripted timeline' becomes "the official battle plan"
It lets the GM throw in their own twists and turns and lets the players nudge events. In one game we had a PC who was a mage who liked to recon in astral form to 'familiarize' himself with all sorts of enemy soldiers and officers, and then send Magic Pigeons to them...which could be followed and used to locate the units even if they were trying something fancy. Neat trick... so when he got 'active results' on some of the supposedly dead CS people in the hivelands (he was doing his daily 'sweep' of every officer on his list...not knowing that some of them were supposed to be dead) his squad did some recon... and discovered the CS invasion force. They then provoked a Xictic hive swarm on it, and tipped off the defenders so that when the battered elements came out of the hivelands they ran up against an already active Triangular Defense.
In one fell swoop of accidental PC action and the entire meta-plot got overthrown. In that particular game the Seige of Tolkeen has become litteral, with the CS forming massive siege lines due to the hideous casualties and resorting to regular shelling and the occasional small unit action, with mage-smugglers bringing in supplies vey ley-line and portal.

Seartethel · Unread post by **Seartethel** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:04 pm

eliakon wrote:
Seartethel wrote:~snip~
Neat, from what I've heard about the Tolkeen supplements, well I'd have to look into them more but I'm not usually interested in prescripted event lines that change the nature of the setting. I'd rather explore the CS from a more mundane point of view, but perhaps that time period would be an interesting backdrop.

The nice thing about the Tolkeen books is that with just a little elbow grease they 'pre-scripted timeline' becomes "the official battle plan"
It lets the GM throw in their own twists and turns and lets the players nudge events. In one game we had a PC who was a mage who liked to recon in astral form to 'familiarize' himself with all sorts of enemy soldiers and officers, and then send Magic Pigeons to them...which could be followed and used to locate the units even if they were trying something fancy. Neat trick... so when he got 'active results' on some of the supposedly dead CS people in the hivelands (he was doing his daily 'sweep' of every officer on his list...not knowing that some of them were supposed to be dead) his squad did some recon... and discovered the CS invasion force. They then provoked a Xictic hive swarm on it, and tipped off the defenders so that when the battered elements came out of the hivelands they ran up against an already active Triangular Defense.
In one fell swoop of accidental PC action and the entire meta-plot got overthrown. In that particular game the Seige of Tolkeen has become litteral, with the CS forming massive siege lines due to the hideous casualties and resorting to regular shelling and the occasional small unit action, with mage-smugglers bringing in supplies vey ley-line and portal.

That's super cool! Thanks for sharing, I'll definitely take a look at those books, especially if I ever find a group to play with

ShadowLogan wrote:
Seartethel wrote:(From above) Which XP table would the Sohei Warrior Monk OCC use? I didn't see any in Rifts: Japan.

The XP Table is in Rifts Japan, last page (pg216), first column and middle entry. The Sohei shares the same XP table with a few other classes (not unusual in Palladium system), there is a typo I think with the placement of a comma, but Sohei is in the list.

Ah, thanks! I missed that page

ShadowLogan wrote:
Seartethel wrote:Is it really worth buying a ranged weapon (I was thinking a pistol of some sort, since Isao has Concealment) for a character that doesn't have access to any of the modern weapon proficiencies? I think it'd be a useful thing to have, and since I gave currency in exchange for her armor, she could afford something and without she has no way to do ranged damage at all.

Ranged weapons can be worth it, but at the same time they might feel out of character (and reviewing the OCC I'd say it would be out of character). One of the potential issues with modern ranged weapons is that without the associated WP skill there are drawbacks:
-takes penalties to their strike roll when firing
-can not make aimed or called shots
-can not maintain the weapon, this includes reloading the weapon
-they have no bonus to strike and is a straight die roll (this might also include any inheriant bonus found in some guns)

That makes sense. I guess I'd forgotten the bit about them shunning modern weapons, but at the same time I find a blend of sci-fi and fantasy appealing. I suppose that can come more from surroundings than just from the character themselves. This again makes the CS an interesting antagonist. In any case, I suppose Isao will just have to deal with not having any ranged attacks. I guess this is why the Sohei Monks can attempt to parry even bullets

On that note, when one of the Parry penalties (-2 vs Arrow/Darts/Thrown, -6 vs Gunfire) from "Parry Arrows with Staff or Spear" becomes positive from the bonuses given ("+2 at level three, and +1 at levels 4, 6, 9, 12, and 15"), am I correct to assume they become better at parrying ranged attacks than they are at parrying melee attacks? I suppose it can make a certain amount of sense, but still seems strange.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 am

Seartethel wrote:That makes sense. I guess I'd forgotten the bit about them shunning modern weapons, but at the same time I find a blend of sci-fi and fantasy appealing. I suppose that can come more from surroundings than just from the character themselves. This again makes the CS an interesting antagonist. In any case, I suppose Isao will just have to deal with not having any ranged attacks. I guess this is why the Sohei Monks can attempt to parry even bullets

While they may shun modern weapons of some types (guns), there are some ways for them to get a ranged attack:
-Spears and Knives can be thrown (they have to be retrieved and/or replaced)
-there are some melee weapons made with ranged attack features that don't require throwing them (Kittani Plasma weapons can fire plasma blasts or operate as a melee weapon)
-magical weapon enchantments in Palladium Fantasy offer up a limited possibility, though it probably is easier to find Techno-Wizard style enchantments (much more expansive)

Seartethel wrote:On that note, when one of the Parry penalties (-2 vs Arrow/Darts/Thrown, -6 vs Gunfire) from "Parry Arrows with Staff or Spear" becomes positive from the bonuses given ("+2 at level three, and +1 at levels 4, 6, 9, 12, and 15"), am I correct to assume they become better at parrying ranged attacks than they are at parrying melee attacks? I suppose it can make a certain amount of sense, but still seems strange.

No. By the rules (CB1r19) in order to parry gunfire (or energy blasts) for normal characters it is a straight DIE roll at penalty. Some classes however can roll D20 + PP attribute + Specific Parry Bonuses to Parry Gunfire - any penalty.

This means the only parry bonuses that apply would come from the Parry Arrows with Staff or Spear and any PP bonus to parry.

It also means that in combat the net effect for bonuses is that melee parry bonuses is better than the net ranged parry bonus.

Seartethel · Unread post by **Seartethel** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:58 pm

ShadowLogan wrote:While they may shun modern weapons of some types (guns), there are some ways for them to get a ranged attack:
-Spears and Knives can be thrown (they have to be retrieved and/or replaced)
-there are some melee weapons made with ranged attack features that don't require throwing them (Kittani Plasma weapons can fire plasma blasts or operate as a melee weapon)
-magical weapon enchantments in Palladium Fantasy offer up a limited possibility, though it probably is easier to find Techno-Wizard style enchantments (much more expansive)

Ah, yes knives would make sense, I’ll look at WP Knives since it’s available to the OCC but even without they could be useful. TW enhancements also sound interesting.

ShadowLogan wrote:No. By the rules (CB1r19) in order to parry gunfire (or energy blasts) for normal characters it is a straight DIE roll at penalty. Some classes however can roll D20 + PP attribute + Specific Parry Bonuses to Parry Gunfire - any penalty.

This means the only parry bonuses that apply would come from the Parry Arrows with Staff or Spear and any PP bonus to parry.

It also means that in combat the net effect for bonuses is that melee parry bonuses is better than the net ranged parry bonus.

Right, so with the PP bonus of +4 to Strike/Dodge/Party Isao has and being lvl 5, she would parry arrows/darts/thrown at +5 (4 PP -2 base according to Parry with Staff +3 from Parry with Staff by lvl 4) and gunfire at +1 (4 PP -6 base according to Parry with Staff +3 from Parry with Staff by lvl 4)? Thanks for the explanation!

The only question I had in a previous post that I’m still wondering about is:

Seartethel wrote:For starting HP, I decided to use the rules from the original Rifts main rulebook, but I wasn't sure if the Sohei Monk was a Man at Arms or a Scholar/Adventurer. I guessed the former and went with that when I built the character. Also, if I was to use the RUE rules for starting HP, Isao would simply get 2D6+12 since her OCC doesn't say anything at all about starting/bonus HP, correct?

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:19 pm

Spoiler:

Seartethel wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:While they may shun modern weapons of some types (guns), there are some ways for them to get a ranged attack:
-Spears and Knives can be thrown (they have to be retrieved and/or replaced)
-there are some melee weapons made with ranged attack features that don't require throwing them (Kittani Plasma weapons can fire plasma blasts or operate as a melee weapon)
-magical weapon enchantments in Palladium Fantasy offer up a limited possibility, though it probably is easier to find Techno-Wizard style enchantments (much more expansive)

Ah, yes knives would make sense, I’ll look at WP Knives since it’s available to the OCC but even without they could be useful. TW enhancements also sound interesting.

ShadowLogan wrote:No. By the rules (CB1r19) in order to parry gunfire (or energy blasts) for normal characters it is a straight DIE roll at penalty. Some classes however can roll D20 + PP attribute + Specific Parry Bonuses to Parry Gunfire - any penalty.

This means the only parry bonuses that apply would come from the Parry Arrows with Staff or Spear and any PP bonus to parry.

It also means that in combat the net effect for bonuses is that melee parry bonuses is better than the net ranged parry bonus.

Right, so with the PP bonus of +4 to Strike/Dodge/Party Isao has and being lvl 5, she would parry arrows/darts/thrown at +5 (4 PP -2 base according to Parry with Staff +3 from Parry with Staff by lvl 4) and gunfire at +1 (4 PP -6 base according to Parry with Staff +3 from Parry with Staff by lvl 4)? Thanks for the explanation!

The only question I had in a previous post that I’m still wondering about is:
Seartethel wrote:For starting HP, I decided to use the rules from the original Rifts main rulebook, but I wasn't sure if the Sohei Monk was a Man at Arms or a Scholar/Adventurer. I guessed the former and went with that when I built the character. Also, if I was to use the RUE rules for starting HP, Isao would simply get 2D6+12 since her OCC doesn't say anything at all about starting/bonus HP, correct?

I typically use the HP rules from the old Rifts Main Book vs. RUE as they make a bit more sense, plus I always give PC's max HP on start. The Sohei seems a bit more of a Scholar/Adventurer vs. Man-At-Arms, but then again they do have Martial training so I'd say go with Man-At-Arms.

ShadowLogan · Unread post by **ShadowLogan** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:08 pm

Seartethel wrote:For starting HP, I decided to use the rules from the original Rifts main rulebook, but I wasn't sure if the Sohei Monk was a Man at Arms or a Scholar/Adventurer. I guessed the former and went with that when I built the character. Also, if I was to use the RUE rules for starting HP, Isao would simply get 2D6+12 since her OCC doesn't say anything at all about starting/bonus HP, correct?

Base HP = PE + 1d6 (even at level one)

While both RUE and RMB present it differently, as far as I've known HP has always been calculated this way (1E RT, 2E RT, TMNT, PF2E, HU2E).

As to weather the Sohei is a M@A or S/A, I would go with M@A as they are warriors.

Seartethel · Unread post by **Seartethel** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:19 pm

keir451 wrote:I typically use the HP rules from the old Rifts Main Book vs. RUE as they make a bit more sense, plus I always give PC's max HP on start. The Sohei seems a bit more of a Scholar/Adventurer vs. Man-At-Arms, but then again they do have Martial training so I'd say go with Man-At-Arms.

Makes sense. I agree that the amount of martial training leads me to believe that they'd be Men at Arms, though there is some merit to the idea they are Adventures/Scholars. Seems strange that they defined which category each OCC fell into in the core book but immediately stopped and left it up to GM decision in the Worldbooks.

ShadowLogan wrote:Base HP = PE + 1d6 (even at level one)

While both RUE and RMB present it differently, as far as I've known HP has always been calculated this way (1E RT, 2E RT, TMNT, PF2E, HU2E).

As to weather the Sohei is a M@A or S/A, I would go with M@A as they are warriors.

Ah, yes. I meant starting SDC, not HP, my mistake.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:00 pm

Seartethel wrote:
keir451 wrote:I typically use the HP rules from the old Rifts Main Book vs. RUE as they make a bit more sense, plus I always give PC's max HP on start. The Sohei seems a bit more of a Scholar/Adventurer vs. Man-At-Arms, but then again they do have Martial training so I'd say go with Man-At-Arms.

Makes sense. I agree that the amount of martial training leads me to believe that they'd be Men at Arms, though there is some merit to the idea they are Adventures/Scholars. Seems strange that they defined which category each OCC fell into in the core book but immediately stopped and left it up to GM decision in the Worldbooks.

ShadowLogan wrote:Base HP = PE + 1d6 (even at level one)

While both RUE and RMB present it differently, as far as I've known HP has always been calculated this way (1E RT, 2E RT, TMNT, PF2E, HU2E).

As to weather the Sohei is a M@A or S/A, I would go with M@A as they are warriors.

Ah, yes. I meant starting SDC, not HP, my mistake.

Ahh! That makes more sense. Many of the OCCs in RUE have their own SDC bonuses (which I personally find annoying and unhelpful as there is no base SDC system anymore) so I just use the old RMB for SDC totals per class. So in this instance the Sohei, as a Man-at-Arms OCC would use the 1d4x10 SDC roll and add any SDC bonuses from OCC and skills.

Seartethel · Unread post by **Seartethel** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:12 pm

keir451 wrote:Ahh! That makes more sense. Many of the OCCs in RUE have their own SDC bonuses (which I personally find annoying and unhelpful as there is no base SDC system anymore) so I just use the old RMB for SDC totals per class. So in this instance the Sohei, as a Man-at-Arms OCC would use the 1d4x10 SDC roll and add any SDC bonuses from OCC and skills.

Seems like a good approach to me.

As a side note, for initial stats I generated 4 discrete sets of 8 stats the normal way (just 3d6, +1d6 if the initial roll was 16+), picked the set I liked the best (not the best 8 numbers, but either the first, second, third or fourth sequence of 8 stats I rolled) and arranged them however I wanted on the 8 stats. I did this because I like to have some chance of getting at least 1 high stat, but I feel 4d6 drop lowest generated too few below average stats. This way you get to roll more dice and have a good chance to get a high roll, but each set has the normal chance of having some low values too. My starting stats were 21, 15, 14, 11, 11, 11, 8 from high to low.

For any die roll after that initial stat generation, I just used the high average (so 1d4=3, 1d6=4, 1d8=5, etc), with the exception that 2d4=5, not 6 (so 3d4 = 5+3 =

since the high average of a d4 is pretty far from the median value. I did this because I feel that spending a resource like a skill on a random roll for a stat increase is inherently un-fun (in my subjective definition of fun, of course). You risk spending that resource and getting next to nothing if you roll bad, and it's a permanent result. Also, if you roll bad and your friend rolls well, that just adds insult to injury. I figure it's better to give a set value so you know what you're getting for spending a skill slot, and to avoid the extremes of "way below what you should expect" and "way above what you should expect."

Of course I do these things because it fits my personal preferences.

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