o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

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phillipk243
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o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by phillipk243 »

quick question. if wanted to create say an altarian blind woman burster using the old palladium rifts

would i keep the r.c.c skill set and add the o.c.c skills or overwrite the r.c.c skills with the o.c.c ones.
Shark_Force
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by Shark_Force »

phillipk243 wrote:quick question. if wanted to create say an altarian blind woman burster using the old palladium rifts

would i keep the r.c.c skill set and add the o.c.c skills or overwrite the r.c.c skills with the o.c.c ones.


i'm not sure if the blind warrior women can *be* bursters, officially.

that said, as i recall they're born with a full set of memories... i would expect that in the event that the GM is allowing one to become a burster, you would follow the standard rules for changing class. given that they start off with multiple levels in their OCC, they'd have to abandon that and start over as a burster.
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

phillipk243 wrote:quick question. if wanted to create say an altarian blind woman burster using the old palladium rifts

would i keep the r.c.c skill set and add the o.c.c skills or overwrite the r.c.c skills with the o.c.c ones.

Like Shark_Force i don't think the Altarian can become a Burster (actually in RMB the Burster was an RCC, so you can't go from one RCC to another, in WB12 it remained an RCC before becoming an OCC in RUE) by actually changing class.

That said there are a few ways for an Altarian to gain Burster abilities and not have to worry about the skills aspect:
-Bio-Wizard symbiotes (off hand I don't know if one exists specifically, but one could be made up)
-Bio-Wizard transformation/Bio-Borg
-Gene Splicers (SB3; this is specifically call out as possible by them) and the Gene Tech (a PW SB, don't recall which one or if its called out directly or not)
-Psi-Impant (WB12's Errupter type)
-equipped with a magical (regular, TW, Bio-Wizard, etc) item(s) that gives them Burster-like abilities

Now in the generic sense, if an RCC could take an OCC (not all can) it would depend on weather it was a "changing class" situation later in life OR a "it was my starting class" situation. In the Changing Class situation it's pretty straightforward (RCC skills freeze until reaching the same level in the new class, per various examples of changing class). As a starting Class, they don't get the RCC skills (they retain abilities and bonuses and attribute rolls), only the OCC.
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

The best answer I can thing of is the rules for changing OCC in PF. They typically do not allow you to go to PSI classes. But the blind warrior woman could in theory with sufficient RP justification use those rules to change to an acceptable OCC. A blind warrior woman that got a partial cyborg reconstruction could change to a headhunter OCC for example.

A blind warrior woman would always be born with there racial OCC do to memory transfer. When You change OCCs all your previous OCC skills would be frozen at the time of the change.
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guardiandashi
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by guardiandashi »

one consideration is the ruling that there were a bunch of classes that were mislabeled as RCC, when they should have been OCC's instead.

just as a consideration I'm not totally convinced that any of the PSI classes should really be RCC's I mean you can say they are, but other than being particularly gifted in certain ways... most of the mage and psychic classes are really just people.

on the other hand a dog boy is definitely a RCC because they are not human, just like a dragon, wolfen, etc. etc.

in a lot of ways if someone was going to recreate the character classes, what would make sense would be to start over with:
Race template. (attributes, and possibly a few (limited core skills)
Class core template. this might be things like man at arms, tech, scholar, psychic, mage etc.
specialty template (along the idea of the MOS's that are sometimes used. )
final customizations

in this system for instance the human template would be 3D6 for all attributes, and in a "modern" environment read and write native language(s) plus math basic and a couple (up to 4 or so) secondary skills just as an example

on the other hand a dogboy would have a base template plus generic (or breed specific) template, .....
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by Shark_Force »

guardiandashi wrote:one consideration is the ruling that there were a bunch of classes that were mislabeled as RCC, when they should have been OCC's instead.

just as a consideration I'm not totally convinced that any of the PSI classes should really be RCC's I mean you can say they are, but other than being particularly gifted in certain ways... most of the mage and psychic classes are really just people.

on the other hand a dog boy is definitely a RCC because they are not human, just like a dragon, wolfen, etc. etc.

in a lot of ways if someone was going to recreate the character classes, what would make sense would be to start over with:
Race template. (attributes, and possibly a few (limited core skills)
Class core template. this might be things like man at arms, tech, scholar, psychic, mage etc.
specialty template (along the idea of the MOS's that are sometimes used. )
final customizations

in this system for instance the human template would be 3D6 for all attributes, and in a "modern" environment read and write native language(s) plus math basic and a couple (up to 4 or so) secondary skills just as an example

on the other hand a dogboy would have a base template plus generic (or breed specific) template, .....


honestly, i would say it's more along the lines of a total retcon of what an RCC even is. as of the latest update, dog boy is *not* an RCC, it's a racially-restricted psychic OCC (PCCs have been removed entirely from what we can tell; they're now just OCCs of the psychic category, the same as a ley line walker is an OCC of the men of magic category). even more confusing, it is very apparent that this OCC includes a number of powers that are part of the race, not the class (the same is true of psi-stalkers, for the record, which is another racially-restricted OCC), and that dog boys (race) that choose other OCCs will have some or all of those racial abilities (not that we're ever told specifically which ones they'll keep).

anyways, still sticking with my original answer: if the GM is allowing it (i'm not going to make any judgment on whether they should allow it, that's on the GM), i would just use the standard multiclassing rules.
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Blue_Lion
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

guardiandashi wrote:one consideration is the ruling that there were a bunch of classes that were mislabeled as RCC, when they should have been OCC's instead.

just as a consideration I'm not totally convinced that any of the PSI classes should really be RCC's I mean you can say they are, but other than being particularly gifted in certain ways... most of the mage and psychic classes are really just people.

on the other hand a dog boy is definitely a RCC because they are not human, just like a dragon, wolfen, etc. etc.

in a lot of ways if someone was going to recreate the character classes, what would make sense would be to start over with:
Race template. (attributes, and possibly a few (limited core skills)
Class core template. this might be things like man at arms, tech, scholar, psychic, mage etc.
specialty template (along the idea of the MOS's that are sometimes used. )
final customizations

in this system for instance the human template would be 3D6 for all attributes, and in a "modern" environment read and write native language(s) plus math basic and a couple (up to 4 or so) secondary skills just as an example

on the other hand a dogboy would have a base template plus generic (or breed specific) template, .....

As I understand it orginally RCC was something you had to be born as. Later what a RCC was changed.

To be a mind melter or burster you had to be born PSI so at the time they where RCC. Later the idea the writers had of what a RCC was changed.

PSI to me is still something you have to be born as, even the class change rules as I understand them do not allow to change to a psi-classes.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by eliakon »

How to have an Altaran Burster?
Easy. Ask your GM to invoke Rule Zero.
Then the two of you sit down and hash out what an Altaran Burster looks like, roll it up and have fun.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Blue_Lion wrote:As I understand it orginally RCC was something you had to be born as. Later what a RCC was changed.

To be a mind melter or burster you had to be born PSI so at the time they where RCC. Later the idea the writers had of what a RCC was changed.

PSI to me is still something you have to be born as, even the class change rules as I understand them do not allow to change to a psi-classes.


originally, RCC meant a whole bunch of different things and people just copied that as was totally reasonable. later on, kevin decided that he had always meant it to mean a creature that essentially had no choice in being that class or not from the moment they were born; dragon is an RCC because all dragons use that class, no matter what other interests they may have.

this is quite frankly not at all consistent with the original use of the term; a psychic might have little choice in being a psychic, but there are training programs that can influence what kind of psychic you are. the original mind melter made it clear that the mind melter had to *develop* into a mind melter, and certainly, psionics has always been something that manifests later in life for humans (most common assumption seems to be puberty, but that isn't specified AFAICT). even dog boys and psi-stalkers aren't really RCCs under the new definition; psi-stalkers literally have two variations in the core book, and later would get more. dog boys are trained to have their class, and could instead train to have other classes (i believe it's mentioned that they don't typically like magic and aren't likely to become a man of magic, but they could).

so really, the definition that kevin is using now was not the definition at the start. frankly, i wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that palladium has released several RCCs that don't fit the new definition since RUE came out.
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Re: o.c.c/ r.c.c combination

Unread post by Prysus »

Shark_Force wrote:a psychic might have little choice in being a psychic, but there are training programs that can influence what kind of psychic you are. the original mind melter made it clear that the mind melter had to *develop* into a mind melter, and certainly, psionics has always been something that manifests later in life for humans (most common assumption seems to be puberty, but that isn't specified AFAICT).

Greetings and Salutations. I selected the main section of your post I wanted to address, and put an area on bold. This is not meant to change content or ignore anything else you stated.

Where do you get that it's "always" manifested later in life for humans?

Now, I understand that you can train to certain psychic O.C.C., but in order to train to a psychic class you'd already need psychic powers. I'd see this more as just because you can train to become an Olympic runner, but humans can still run long before puberty. If there's an actual book statement I'm unaware of though, I'd be greatly interested because I always like to know more. The are two other references I'm aware of that come from non-Rifts books.

One is Palladium Fantasy (PF2), page 155: "Humans and human-like races (elves, dwarves, ogres, etc.) are either born with active psionic abilities or not."

There, it states people are born with active powers. Not just born with potential, but active powers. In Heroes Unlimited (HU2), page 190 (under Latent Psionic): "As a "Latent" Psychic, the character is slower to develop his powers, with them often appearing in the character's late teens or twenties."

This version states what later is considered, which would still allow the puberty theory (or born with active powers). This wouldn't tell us much, but does provide an upper age limit.

Those are the age references I'm aware of regarding Psychic Powers. While a specific Rifts rule/reference would override a rule/reference from a different setting, I'm not aware of any such rule/reference in Rifts. So if you do know of another (such as stating all psychics start with dormant powers that don't develop until later in life) in Rifts (or even another setting), then I'd be interested. Thank you. Farewell and safe journeys.
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