Demigod races

[HarleeKnight]

The Demigod in the Pantheons book is based off of a human. (I'm assuming, don't know for sure) How should I go about basing one off of another race? Do I just take the stat difference (whatever is above or below 3D6) and apply them to whatever race I plan on using?
I know there is nothing on this in any of the books, but how would you go about doing it?

[eliakon]

The Demigod in the Pantheons book is based off of a human. (I'm assuming, don't know for sure) How should I go about basing one off of another race? Do I just take the stat difference (whatever is above or below 3D6) and apply them to whatever race I plan on using?
I know there is nothing on this in any of the books, but how would you go about doing it?

There are a couple different views on this, which result in a couple different results.
The simplest is to simply reduce the Demigod into a 'template' that you simply add onto another race. You do this by removing out all the things that a human has and then just stacking that on the new race.
This allows for instant Demigods of any race... but while it works quite well for a demigod elf, or Wolfen it can lead to abuses when making a demigod Kildred or Jerdiu or Dragon.

The second method is to simply have the demigod be the demigod and make no changes. This is the simplest and easiest... but it results in some odd results if you want that above mentioned demigod elf or Wolfen let alone a demigod dragon.

Both rules are complicated by the fact that Godlings do not have any racial element at all...
...which means that in the first version you can quickly end up with Demigods that have superior stats and abilities than Godlings... This may or may not be undesirable. It really depends on what the GM wants to do, and what the GM wants to have running around in their game. What is ballanced and reasonable in one game is unballanced and unreasonable in another game. This, like so many other things, is a matter of judgement and finese rather than any sort of hard and fast rule.

[Hotrod]

Demigods seem best suited as the offspring of gods and mortal, SDC species, and I would house-rule them accordingly. Thus the demigod template approach should work fine for elves, dwarves, changelings, troglodytes, goblins, hobgoblins, gnomes, orcs, ogres, eandroth, lizard men, and such.

A union of a god and a supernatural/MDC being would be better characterized as a godling. I would house-rule such a creation accordingly, and I would use whichever stat is higher between the Godling RCC and the standard RCC/racial characteristics.

In both cases, I'd include all special abilities of the not-god parent when creating such an offspring.

[smashed]

By the book you'd use the same stats for any type of demi-god and godling.

For my games however, I do as eliakon suggests and turn them into templates. I just remove 3d6 form all stats. For the demi-gods MDC I take a SDC creatures HP and SDC and multiple it by 5 and then increase it's per lvl increase by 1d6. For MDC creatures I just add the PEx5 on top of its natural MDC, and add 1d6 to its normal per lvl increase, with the minimum value being 2d6. For godlings I take PE and SDC and multiple it by 10 and use the 1d4x10 per lvl increase or it natural racial increase, what ever is higher. For MDC creatures I just add the PE x10 onto its natural MDC and use whatever increase is higher per lvl 1d4x10 or its natural one.

I've never applied this to races with natural magic of physic powers, so I don't have values for that. I would also modify the MDC amount of SDC creatures with incredibly high natural HP/SDC. But that would be on a case by case basis.

[HarleeKnight]

What I'm thinking about is a Pseudo Man Mutant (randomly rolled abilities) Demigod with Option 9: Psionics (Healer w/5 Super). His OCC will be Mystic Knight of the White Rose, but he will not use magic spells. He has no problem manipulating PPE for the MK abilities, but he has a mental block against actual spells. He will learn other psionic powers as a normal MK. I figure the no spells and freak mutations are a good balance to the divinity.
His mortal parent had the Angelic Face mutation and when he was born without it (if I roll it I will just reroll), his god parent abandoned them. The shaman wanted to exploit his divinity and everyone else ostracized him, so he left and joined up with the MKotWR.
So yeah, his mortal half is an MDC race but it's minor and fairly disadvantaged.

That's actually how I create characters. I write their backgrounds first and that helps me with the creation process and evolution of the character as I play.

[Curbludgeon]

That's a really neat character idea! Since the Pseudo-Man has pretty low stat variability, I'd probably just use demigod stats (with the exception of P.B.), and if the result is lower than the minimum for a Pseudo-Man adjust accordingly. The MDC maybe shouldn't stack, but it's hardly game-breaking if it does. If you wanted to do it as a template instead the largest stat bumps would be to P.S. and P.B., and with the latter then being 1d6+10 the right rolls might let the character pass for human, which might not be what you're looking for.

As far as other types of demigods, I'd be leery of any base being with as much or more MDC than a human demigod, or any species with a whole bunch of specials. A Psi-Stalker demigod is fine, but a Achilles Neo-human probably isn't, and a demigod dragon is only good for a lazy player in a crazypants game.

[Hotrod]

That's an interesting background for a character. I agree on the general premise of writing a background first and building the character second. An interesting exercise is "define an interesting type of character/NPC in 5 words or less" and then build the character to match it.

[Jorick]

I think of the Demigod and Godling as laid out in DB2 less as templates and more as guides. They establish a basic power level relative to other characters in the game. The pertinent parts are the MDC and the amount and variability of abilities.

In the case of an extreme example like a "demigod dragon," we encounter the problem of a base creature, the dragon, being (far) more powerful than the guidance suggests (at least in the case of the demigod, but even the godling may pale in comparison to an adult dragon). Simply scaling up MDC and abilities may be enough, but I think the calculation requires more deference to backstory/character idea and the story in which that character will perform.

We do have an example of dragon gods. Basically they're gods with about 10 times more MDC (than other gods). We know there can be this kind of being, a dragon ostensibly relying on the proffered PPE of followers that elevates their power levels through mystical means. We're not told exactly how one becomes a god. Maybe one just appears as an act of the will of believers, or maybe one transforms. There's evidence in the books (including Fantasy books) that both backstories are possible/likely, as well as others. There's probably lots of ways to become a god.

What exactly is a demigod or godling is less clear, but a demigod is somehow related to or chosen of a pantheon, and a godling is somehow like a god, but less powerful (somehow they are created by or tap into the powersources of their pantheon). Like gods, their powers should reflect both their accrued knowledge, and their role as a minor deity (are they a warrior of legend? an avatar of the sun? etc.).

Putting all this together, I think one could make a lesser dragon-god being by increasing MDC (by an amount that makes sense for the campaign), and magical power/potency based on the character's backstory (how/why they became a god, and role as a "minor" deity).

In the case of mortals or lesser MDC beings, I think that, as far as stats goes, while the specifics may change on a case by case basis, approximating the power-level of the demigod or godling, and creating a backstory which explains their nature, is enough for a playable and fulfilling character. I think that's true even of a basic "human" demigod. If it's a demigod with powers not listed, for instance, that should be fine. To limit the construction of the character to the selections available in the books I thin is doing a disservice to both the player/GM and the intent of the book.

[13eowulf]

I am on board with the "Demi-God as a template", reverse engineered by removing base human stats.

On the other hand, there is the PU2 Immortal version of Demi-Gods.

[Vrykolas2k]

I tend not to overthink it.
With a wolfen demigod, they get an MDC bite, nightvision and wolfen sensory abilities.
With elves, they get the 5D6 PB and nightvision.

[Axelmania]

RAW it's probably the "same stats for all races" but I like the "template" approach suggested above more as well. I think this would also be a good approach for Cosmo-Knights or Death Demons.

Can anyone think of any other examples of "races on races" where templates would work better?

I'm thinking perhaps skeletons/zombies/mummies too, because if I can get away with making a mouse corpse into one of these without losing stats, I'll do it, and there is much less incentive to animate giant corpses if they have same stats as human undead or gnome undead. Intimidation is for the ignorant, once word spreads of how they're not better, all you have is an ineffficient minion who takes up too much space.

[eliakon]

I am on board with the "Demi-God as a template", reverse engineered by removing base human stats.

On the other hand, there is the PU2 Immortal version of Demi-Gods.

You just want to be able to build Vex again don't you

I did actually go through and turn this into a template previously. I probably have that somewhere and I could post it if there is enough desire.

[13eowulf]

I am on board with the "Demi-God as a template", reverse engineered by removing base human stats.

On the other hand, there is the PU2 Immortal version of Demi-Gods.

You just want to be able to build Vex again don't you

I did actually go through and turn this into a template previously. I probably have that somewhere and I could post it if there is enough desire.

Vex is eternal!

And I recall you did. I used a version of it for one game as well, though I think modified a bit.

[glitterboy2098]

having used a fan made template for a game that was all demi's, it can be interesting. especially when you can end up with a demigod ogopogo-dragon hatchling surprising their 'uncle', the human demigod. (son of loki meets grandson of loki.. was fun while it lasted)

but i'd say that a template really would need some limits as to what it can be applied to if you were going to try and mix it into a group of non-demigods, or get it into the rifter. so that people can't apply the template to some already over powered racial class/rcc and get a game breaking result. yes win theory the GM should be able to veto such stuff, but not all GM's are going to be able to see that far ahead.. or be able to stand up to a player that really works at lowering the GM's resistance. and things like "well it is book legal" can often be a really hard stance for a GM to counter in such case.

[eliakon]

having used a fan made template for a game that was all demi's, it can be interesting. especially when you can end up with a demigod ogopogo-dragon hatchling surprising their 'uncle', the human demigod. (son of loki meets grandson of loki.. was fun while it lasted)

but i'd say that a template really would need some limits as to what it can be applied to if you were going to try and mix it into a group of non-demigods, or get it into the rifter. so that people can't apply the template to some already over powered racial class/rcc and get a game breaking result. yes win theory the GM should be able to veto such stuff, but not all GM's are going to be able to see that far ahead.. or be able to stand up to a player that really works at lowering the GM's resistance. and things like "well it is book legal" can often be a really hard stance for a GM to counter in such case.

Oh heck yeah.
My template is the epitome of optional rule stacked on optional rule.
It is definitely a "GM discretion not just advised but well nigh required" sort of thing at that.

And yeah, I would label it as "this is not remotely book legal at all, even if it looks like it. GMs though if they wish may include this as an add on that can be applied to such races as they, in their sole opinion, deem suitable"

[Vrykolas2k]

I am on board with the "Demi-God as a template", reverse engineered by removing base human stats.

On the other hand, there is the PU2 Immortal version of Demi-Gods.

You just want to be able to build Vex again don't you

I did actually go through and turn this into a template previously. I probably have that somewhere and I could post it if there is enough desire.

The problem with templates is, they belong on builds rather than characters.
I prefer role-play to roll-play, by and large, and any time someone shows up at my table with a build I ask them to leave.

[eliakon]

I am on board with the "Demi-God as a template", reverse engineered by removing base human stats.

On the other hand, there is the PU2 Immortal version of Demi-Gods.

You just want to be able to build Vex again don't you

I did actually go through and turn this into a template previously. I probably have that somewhere and I could post it if there is enough desire.

The problem with templates is, they belong on builds rather than characters.
I prefer role-play to roll-play, by and large, and any time someone shows up at my table with a build I ask them to leave.

Then you don't seem to understand what a template is
A template is simply something that you combine with something else to quickly convert A into B.
OCCs are a template that is stacked on the chosen Race to make a character as well.
MOS choices for characters are Templates as well.
So a demigod template is "how to turn a non-human into a demigod". Sort of like the demigod RCC is simply Human + Demigod Template + OCC (a template).

HU is a classic example as all the power categories are basically Templates that are simply combined with the base race and base skill to make a super hero.

The big advantage a Template offers for character building is that it has everything needed for what ever is being done already in it. Meaning that if you don't have to have every person sit down and spend time trying to reinvent the wheel everytime they want to do something.
This is why we have templates for a member of Arzno, or for a Reids Ranger, or for a milita member, or multiple other examples. Instead of trying to figure out each time what a person who had been a member of X was required to have to be competent, we can simply go through and apply the template and then spend the left over skills to customize.

[Axelmania]

Having gods breed with things much more powerful than humans (say perhaps, greater demons) and applying the demigod template on top of it would be fun fun fun.

Also fun would be treating the death demon template as what humans become, and any greater demons who become death demons could just keep all their original powers and get the death demon stuff on top!

Vampires too!

Xombies too!

[13eowulf]

Having gods breed with things much more powerful than humans (say perhaps, greater demons) and applying the demigod template on top of it would be fun fun fun.

Also fun would be treating the death demon template as what humans become, and any greater demons who become death demons could just keep all their original powers and get the death demon stuff on top!

Vampires too!

Xombies too!

This is why you can't have nice things.

[Axelmania]

Xombie Vampire Death Demon Balrogs.

[eliakon]

Having gods breed with things much more powerful than humans (say perhaps, greater demons) and applying the demigod template on top of it would be fun fun fun.

Also fun would be treating the death demon template as what humans become, and any greater demons who become death demons could just keep all their original powers and get the death demon stuff on top!

Vampires too!

Xombies too!

This is why you can't have nice things.

HEY NOW!
I thought Tellas 1 was a nice thing

But yeah, it also demonstrated pretty harshly why template stacking is a Bad Thing <tm>