Who can pilot power armor and robots

[jburkett]

Hello, I'm just hoping for some clarification. In the RUE it appears that any OCC that has OCC Related Skills that allow "Pilot: Any" can elect to take both Pilot: Power Armor/Robots and Hand to Hand: Power Armor/Robot Elite (and thus get the Basic version for all other types.) I just want to make sure that I am not missing an exclusion that may be somewhere else in the book (RUE or other). If this is true, then what would be the penalty for a Rogue Scholar who has both Pilot: Power Armor/Robot and Hand to Hand: Power Armor/Robot Elite but, because of available skills, is not able to take either the Weapon Systems skill or the W.P. Heavy Mega damage weapons skill (which includes Railguns, build in missle launchers, etc according to RUE). Would these be the same penalties listed in the Ranged Combat section for characters without a certain ranged combat W.P.? Thanks in advance for your input. I know this question has some layers to it.

[glitterboy2098]

Yes, if the pilot category says "any" you can take any of the skills in it, including the robot skills. unlike some of the other game lines Rifts doesn't seperate out civilian from military piloting skills.

as far as weapon systems and WP's go, they are not absolutely required. they are just handy.. the WP's make you more accurate, while weapon systems gives you that small bit of extra accuracy, and covers your rear end on those trickier shots where your GM requires you to roll a skill to set them up.

just like how read sensory instruments is not strictly required either.. it is just handy if you want to use sensors for anything beyond the basics "look around me" setting.

[shadrak]

Yes, if the pilot category says "any" you can take any of the skills in it, including the robot skills. unlike some of the other game lines Rifts doesn't seperate out civilian from military piloting skills.

as far as weapon systems and WP's go, they are not absolutely required. they are just handy.. the WP's make you more accurate, while weapon systems gives you that small bit of extra accuracy, and covers your rear end on those trickier shots where your GM requires you to roll a skill to set them up.

just like how read sensory instruments is not strictly required either.. it is just handy if you want to use sensors for anything beyond the basics "look around me" setting.

What glitterboy said...

Anyone with the piloting skills can pilot a robot...including a rogue scholar if they have a skill for it...

I don't think it is available as a secondary skill, though, so there probably aren't a lot of rogue scholars taking the skill...but a rogue scholar that tools around with player characters that use a Wild Weasel may find a flying power armor like the flying titan to be pretty helpful...and they will probably also want to have WP Energy Rifle so they can defend themselves.

[kaid]

Basically what the others said. If you can afford or acquire some power armor a lot of people potentially can pilot it as long as you pick up the skill. The big thing is watch the OCC skills for pilot if it just says ANY you are good to go unless it specifically calls out power armor as not available.

[ShadowLogan]

Hello, I'm just hoping for some clarification. In the RUE it appears that any OCC that has OCC Related Skills that allow "Pilot: Any" can elect to take both Pilot: Power Armor/Robots and Hand to Hand: Power Armor/Robot Elite (and thus get the Basic version for all other types.) I just want to make sure that I am not missing an exclusion that may be somewhere else in the book (RUE or other). If this is true, then what would be the penalty for a Rogue Scholar who has both Pilot: Power Armor/Robot and Hand to Hand: Power Armor/Robot Elite but, because of available skills, is not able to take either the Weapon Systems skill or the W.P. Heavy Mega damage weapons skill (which includes Railguns, build in missle launchers, etc according to RUE). Would these be the same penalties listed in the Ranged Combat section for characters without a certain ranged combat W.P.? Thanks in advance for your input. I know this question has some layers to it.

That is correct, if the OCC or OCC Related Skills allow one to select Pilot Robots and Power Armor, then yes you can select it (and the Robot Combat skills).

PER THE SKILL Description (RUE pg319 and even in RMB pg30) for Robot Combat you DO NOT NEED Weapon Systems or WP Skills to operate the units various weapons in the unit. The only downside to not having these skills is that:
A. you do not get the skill bonuses (strike and in some cases parry or other options)
B. ability to reload (WP not Weapon System)
C. ability to gauge weapon quality (WP not Weapon System)

Robot Combat may or may not apply as "trained" for purposes of WP and the Ranged Combat Penalties AFAIK, so this would be a GM's call. Personally I wouldn't apply them to Elite, and I certainly would not allow Robot Combat to supersede the no WP penalties when not using a robot/pa.

[dragonfett]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

[eliakon]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

The number of vehicles available out there that can be used for exploration has gone up significantly.
Just off the top of my head the Bulldog and the Tarantula from New West were both used in games previously by non-combat types, and a firefighter was the choice for a non-combat specialist while in Mexico.

And of course a Scholar doing anthropological field work studying the mercenary culture of North America is going to both need to be able to pull their weight with the unit and want to be in someplace safe... a robot vehicle provides a good compromise there.

[Blue_Lion]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

Oh come on those are the nerds and geeks of rifts they will pilot any gaint robot.

It is like you are saying that because they are a scientist or scholar they have no interest in being able to win a fight.

[Killer Cyborg]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

Oh come on those are the nerds and geeks of rifts they will pilot any gaint robot.

It is like you are saying that because they are a scientist or scholar they have no interest in being able to win a fight.

I'm with Blue Lion on this.

[ShadowLogan]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

Only the EX-5 Behemoth?

Titan Reconnaissance Robot
Any of the Dinosaur styled 'bots from SA1&2, with a bit of disguise could also interest them in observing dinosaurs (EIR-15 style NGR spying on the Gargoyles in WB5, with some modifications)
Kittani in WB2 (they also make all but one of the dino styled 'bots in SA) have units far more capable the EX-5
Spider Skull Walker (not likely easy to get)
Tarantula in New West (previously mentioned)
Triax has at least 2 exploration styled bots (WB5)
Japanese have at least 2 that could be valuable (WB8)

That ignores custom jobs (ala SB1o/r) or roles where the bot will be more combat orientated. This is also ignoring power armor.

[Warshield73]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

Oh come on those are the nerds and geeks of rifts they will pilot any gaint robot.

It is like you are saying that because they are a scientist or scholar they have no interest in being able to win a fight.

One more vote for Blue Lion here. If anything I am upset that RUE reduced the number of characters that can pilot robots & PA. In RMB both the Wilderness Scout and Rogue Scholar can pilot them and now in RUE they can't. With the mobility and versatility of robots & PA they would be the vehicle of choice for exploration and salvage.

My biggest problem with Pilot Robots and Power Armor has always been that it is one skill and not two separate skills. Piloting a suit of armor (discussed here). They should be two different skills.

[kaid]

Oh I did forget to mention there actually are a couple known oddball cases of power armor that does not even require any piloting skill. The gladius and I believe the thunder hound do not require power armor piloting skills. They can get some benefit if you have the skills but I don't believe require it. The former as its very bare bones basic armor power armor basically just really heavy normal armor with enough augmentation to support the weight of it. The latter because it was designed for dog boys to use had to be dead simple.

[kaid]

The only Robot Vehicle that I can see most Rogue Scientist/Scholars wanting to pilot is the EX-5 Behemoth.

Only the EX-5 Behemoth?

Titan Reconnaissance Robot
Any of the Dinosaur styled 'bots from SA1&2, with a bit of disguise could also interest them in observing dinosaurs (EIR-15 style NGR spying on the Gargoyles in WB5, with some modifications)
Kittani in WB2 (they also make all but one of the dino styled 'bots in SA) have units far more capable the EX-5
Spider Skull Walker (not likely easy to get)
Tarantula in New West (previously mentioned)
Triax has at least 2 exploration styled bots (WB5)
Japanese have at least 2 that could be valuable (WB8)

That ignores custom jobs (ala SB1o/r) or roles where the bot will be more combat orientated. This is also ignoring power armor.

NG1 has some really nice explorer bots. My favorite is the bulldog but the okemos explorer and the ogre are nice as well. The bulldog has its own small lab as well as nice sleeping pods/kitchen/bathroom facilities/small cargo/workshop area all in a package that is not a major front line combatant but still really freaking tough and enough offensive punch to dissuade attackers to go find easier prey.

The okemos explorer is smaller but really nice for a small group or solitary explorer/scientist/scholar. Again has nice sleeping quarters and bathroom facility and small work area.

[kaid]

Doh forgot to talk about the ogre. The ogre is a bit less swanky sleeping quarter wise than the other two I mentioned but still nice and safely enclosed with bathroom facilities. The ogre is also a great salvage digging bot it is built for moving really heavy stuff around and if you are trying to excavate for an archeological dig or exploring some ruins the ogre is a freaking beast for clearing debris and junk.

[ShadowLogan]

@kaid
I guess I should have said I wasn't looking at all the Rifts books (and post WB30 I haven't really looked at), but even as incomplete a review as I did it's pretty clear the Behemoth isn't the only option.

My biggest problem with Pilot Robots and Power Armor has always been that it is one skill and not two separate skills. Piloting a suit of armor (discussed here). They should be two different skills.

Keep in mind to that some Power Armor are closer to being "small" robot vehicles rather than actual power armor suits.

In actual practice we are likely looking at several skills not just two:
-flying power armor (access the flight controls and land/take-off w/o injury to self)
-non flying power armor
-non humanoid power armor (more of a Kittani thing, their chimeras, but also the dinosaur style PA in SA1 and 2)
-giant power armor (these are the boarder line units like Glitterboy or Ulti-max)
-humanoid robots
-flying robots
-non-humanoid robots (the multi-leggers)
-transforming units (admittedly rare, but probably different enough), and this might require further sub-divisions
-underwater and space 'bot and power armor might also exist
-remote operation (MiO and Triax have them, feed back is more limited so I would think it would be more difficult)

So is it realistic? No. Is it practical from an RPG perspective? Yes (and it isn't the only skill that is "practical" from this POV that really should be separate skills). And Palladium has done the "split" forms to varying degrees in both 1E and 2E Robotech (and Macross II), and I have to say the Rifts approach is more practical IMHO.

[kaid]

There are enough power armors that sort of blur the boundaries even common stuff like NG samson, glitterboy, ultimax that I can see that the training gets blurred as well. It also seems to imply a lot of similarities in control schemes so I can accept the combo pilot skill.

[glitterboy2098]

not to mention robots that blur the line, like the NGR's Jeager and Super Jeager.

[Warshield73]

My biggest problem with Pilot Robots and Power Armor has always been that it is one skill and not two separate skills. Piloting a suit of armor (discussed here). They should be two different skills.

Keep in mind to that some Power Armor are closer to being "small" robot vehicles rather than actual power armor suits.

In actual practice we are likely looking at several skills not just two:
-flying power armor (access the flight controls and land/take-off w/o injury to self)
-non flying power armor
-non humanoid power armor (more of a Kittani thing, their chimeras, but also the dinosaur style PA in SA1 and 2)
-giant power armor (these are the boarder line units like Glitterboy or Ulti-max)
-humanoid robots
-flying robots
-non-humanoid robots (the multi-leggers)
-transforming units (admittedly rare, but probably different enough), and this might require further sub-divisions
-underwater and space 'bot and power armor might also exist
-remote operation (MiO and Triax have them, feed back is more limited so I would think it would be more difficult)

So is it realistic? No. Is it practical from an RPG perspective? Yes (and it isn't the only skill that is "practical" from this POV that really should be separate skills). And Palladium has done the "split" forms to varying degrees in both 1E and 2E Robotech (and Macross II), and I have to say the Rifts approach is more practical IMHO.

I agree that you could break this into a dozen different skills and I am glad that Rifts doesn't do that. I like the way Phase World approaches pilot spacecraft, they have 3 skills that are a little vague and have some overlap. If it was more realistic there would be again about a dozen to cover different types of spacecraft and flying in different types of atmosphere but at least by splitting it into 3 skills you eliminate the situation where a guy is flying a dreadnought with the same skill he uses for a fighter.

One thing I thought about doing years ago, after WB 5 Triax came out with the flying Dragonwing Robot, was to combine pilot robot & PA with other skills. If you want to use your PA underwater, you need SCUBA. You want to fly your man sized PA, you need jet-pack skill. You want to fly your Dragonwing, that requires pilot jet.

Ultimately I only did this for flying giant robots, like the Dragonwing, but it is a good way to differentiate between different types of pilots without creating new skills.

[Warshield73]

There are enough power armors that sort of blur the boundaries even common stuff like NG samson, glitterboy, ultimax that I can see that the training gets blurred as well. It also seems to imply a lot of similarities in control schemes so I can accept the combo pilot skill.

not to mention robots that blur the line, like the NGR's Jeager and Super Jeager.

Yes there is a lot of overlap and bluing of the lines, which to me means if you split the skill Terrain Hopper is PA, your 50 foot tall Devastator is a robot, and vehicles like the GB/Jaeger/Samson could be either.

To me what is strange is that the same skill covers a Terrain Hopper that covers a Devastator. It's like having the same skill that covers a Corolla cover a Bradley IFV.

[kaid]

not to mention robots that blur the line, like the NGR's Jeager and Super Jeager.

Yup you get those things in the 10 to 19ish foot range that really start bluring the lines hard. Like jaeger are called robot vehicles but from the comic things it looks like power armor or at least if a samson is power armor than so is a jaeger and super jaeger.

[dragonfett]

Oh I did forget to mention there actually are a couple known oddball cases of power armor that does not even require any piloting skill. The gladius and I believe the thunder hound do not require power armor piloting skills. They can get some benefit if you have the skills but I don't believe require it. The former as its very bare bones basic armor power armor basically just really heavy normal armor with enough augmentation to support the weight of it. The latter because it was designed for dog boys to use had to be dead simple.

I hate the fact that the Gladius was re-classified as a power armor instead of staying a exo-skeleton.

To be honest, I don't have much knowledge of the robots or power armors that aren't in the RMB or the first Mercenaries book. I have access to just about all of the books, but rarely make characters that have the ability to use them.

[kaid]

Oh I did forget to mention there actually are a couple known oddball cases of power armor that does not even require any piloting skill. The gladius and I believe the thunder hound do not require power armor piloting skills. They can get some benefit if you have the skills but I don't believe require it. The former as its very bare bones basic armor power armor basically just really heavy normal armor with enough augmentation to support the weight of it. The latter because it was designed for dog boys to use had to be dead simple.

I hate the fact that the Gladius was re-classified as a power armor instead of staying a exo-skeleton.

To be honest, I don't have much knowledge of the robots or power armors that aren't in the RMB or the first Mercenaries book. I have access to just about all of the books, but rarely make characters that have the ability to use them.

It still is an in between item you don’t need pilot power armor skill to use it and even if you have the skill you don’t get full benefits. It is very literally powered armor as is any powered exoskeleton armor.

[dragonfett]

Oh I did forget to mention there actually are a couple known oddball cases of power armor that does not even require any piloting skill. The gladius and I believe the thunder hound do not require power armor piloting skills. They can get some benefit if you have the skills but I don't believe require it. The former as its very bare bones basic armor power armor basically just really heavy normal armor with enough augmentation to support the weight of it. The latter because it was designed for dog boys to use had to be dead simple.

I hate the fact that the Gladius was re-classified as a power armor instead of staying a exo-skeleton.

To be honest, I don't have much knowledge of the robots or power armors that aren't in the RMB or the first Mercenaries book. I have access to just about all of the books, but rarely make characters that have the ability to use them.

It still is an in between item you don’t need pilot power armor skill to use it and even if you have the skill you don’t get full benefits. It is very literally powered armor as is any powered exoskeleton armor.

I'd seen some GM's require Pilot: RPA just to use the Gladius now that wearers who had RPA Combat: Basic could benefit.

[eliakon]

I will admit I am one of the GMs who now requires people to have piloting to use Exo-Skeletons. This was arrived at after a few things. First, they provide a major boost to strength, so you need to 'get the hang' of it. Second is that they will still need some controls. Third though was that they were being used as power armor with out the power armor skill. Take a Gladius, slap on a Naruni FF, the nuclear power pack upgrade, combat vambraces and then all the optics and other stuff you can use to upgrade body armor and *presto* a Power Armor that isn't really a power armor.
After about the ninth time this happened I decided to make non men-at-arms have the skill to use them. I figured that soldiers and the like got the skills in their basic training but the rest of the world...well if you want power armor you need to actually get power armor.