Improving Wilderness Survival

[PalladiumBrony]

I've had a thought... is it just me, or does anyone else think the Wilderness Survival skill is OP as heck?

Like, with a single skill you can turn your character into Bear Grylls, able to survive in any environment in the known universe capable of supporting their species. That seems crazy to me. I'm all for using few skills to do something, so you can create a character who's good at multiple things... but to my mind, the more breadth of knowledge your character has, the less depth they should have in any given subject.

So, this is what I propose, and where I could use your guys' help: I propose a skill breakdown like that of the Weapon Expertise/Mastery system from Rifter #30 (wherein you have a basic level of proficiency in all weapons of a class, such as swords, but real, deep skill in one specific weapon such as the rapier). What would you guys think to having a "Wilderness Survival: Basic skill as a prerequisite (which gives only the most universal, basic skills such as knowing how to assemble a tent and understanding the fire triangle), and then having Wilderness Survival: <biome> as follow-on skills which give all the skills required to survive in that specific terrain, such as desert, mountain, forest, arctic etc? Having these specific skills would teach you things like understanding "the Core Four" (Food, Fire, Water and Shelter, and how to prioritize them in your specific area of expertise), what constitutes an appropriate camp site, a basic knowledge of the local hazards etc.

What specific things would you allow the Basic skill to do, bearing in mind that the more advanced skills will give you a full suite of survival skills? What seems like a good collection of terrains/biomes to put in? I've never really created a brand new skill like this before, so any tips would, I think, be very helpful.

[Mack]

While I don’t dispute what you’re getting at, this is the same game that has Electrical Engineering as a single skill.

YMMV.

[Natasha]

I'd let them have the advanced skill of their homeland. That gives the broad basics in foreign environments. When in a new region, it seems like a judgement call of the GM whether or not the situation is basic or advanced. The species ideal for a fire in the Mojave are different from those in the Midwest, but is that a level of detail you want? If it isn't, we might say any skilled character will quickly work it out. If it is, then we might have to impose penalties if we allow it at all.

[ShadowLogan]

I think I would avoid a separate "basic" skill, and make it a sub-skill of Wilderness Survival: Region (basically WS for Robot Combat or Language/Literacy).

I think I've seven seen the core Wilderness Survival skill done up in NPCs (or maybe it was the OCC) that focused on a climate region. I don't recall where I've seen it, but I thought I've seen it done that way to begin with.

[Blue_Lion]

You could just assign penalties to the skill when out side of environments or regions that you are use to.
An example would be if you are from temperate forest and find your self in a dessert you get a -35% to survival until you become familiar with the desert.

Another example is if you are from a temperate forest on east coast NA and find your self on a alien world with temperate forest you get a -35% to find food with survival but in a temperate forest in Germany you get -15% to find food.

This is easier and does not require a major rework of the skill.

[Warshield73]

While I don’t dispute what you’re getting at, this is the same game that has Electrical Engineering as a single skill.

YMMV.

Agreed, while I don't mind adding new skills, I have added several from Robotech and BTS to Rifts, I don't think we need to sub divide existing skills.

You could just assign penalties to the skill when out side of environments or regions that you are use to.
An example would be if you are from temperate forest and find your self in a dessert you get a -35% to survival until you become familiar with the desert.

Another example is if you are from a temperate forest on east coast NA and find your self on a alien world with temperate forest you get a -35% to find food with survival but in a temperate forest in Germany you get -15% to find food.

This is easier and does not require a major rework of the skill.

I guess I had always assumed this was the rule. I have always done this with Wilderness Survival, Streetwise, and even several of the Lore skills although my penalties tend to be a little lower.

[PalladiumBrony]

You could just assign penalties to the skill when out side of environments or regions that you are use to.
An example would be if you are from temperate forest and find your self in a dessert you get a -35% to survival until you become familiar with the desert.

Another example is if you are from a temperate forest on east coast NA and find your self on a alien world with temperate forest you get a -35% to find food with survival but in a temperate forest in Germany you get -15% to find food.

This is easier and does not require a major rework of the skill.

Yeah, I think that's a good way to do it actually. Apply a 30% skill penalty for unfamiliar areas (35% would make a level 1 character completely unable to survive in unfamiliar terrain, which may be a little harsh, I think there should be SOME chance for the character to get it right) and you start by knowing the "wilderness terrain" in which you were brought up/first learned the skill. Probably I'll let the character take additional terrains, but you need to sacrifice a skill slot to do so (of any kind, I'm sure I've heard stories of people self-teaching themselves about Wilderness Survival, which would suggest it's fine to allow it as a Secondary)

[shadrak]

How many skills do we want to have? How many specialties?

It's up to the GM and the player to navigate how to handle new situations where the skill applies...

That said, when I GM NO SKILL is simply a straight roll. Wilderness survival in my games includes the creation of makeshift shelters...

It would be easy to make a simple lean-to...it would be much more difficult to have the character create a mud hut...I would still allow players to attempt both using the wilderness survival skill.

You can take foraging, for example. Wilderness survival might help you differentiate between some species of mushrooms or might help you select some berries that are non-poisonous, but that doesn't mean someone knows what every edible plant in the forest is.

Sidenote:

I added a few skills to my game for some NPCs involved in the refinement of metal ores....
Then last night I saw that the skill "MINING" covers ore refinement...

So if you think Wilderness Survival is overpowered, just think about how a coal miner can run an iron refinement plant and a steel mill.

[PalladiumBrony]

How many skills do we want to have? How many specialties?
I added a few skills to my game for some NPCs involved in the refinement of metal ores....
Then last night I saw that the skill "MINING" covers ore refinement...

I got around that by having Mining from RUE and Smelting from Rifter 14: Mining exclusively covers the acquisition and quality assessment of metal ore, and Smelting covers the melting down of said ores into refined metals. Then you have Blacksmith/Metalworking from Rifter 24 to cover actually making something out of said refined metals.

[shadrak]

How many skills do we want to have? How many specialties?
I added a few skills to my game for some NPCs involved in the refinement of metal ores....
Then last night I saw that the skill "MINING" covers ore refinement...

I got around that by having Mining from RUE and Smelting from Rifter 14: Mining exclusively covers the acquisition and quality assessment of metal ore, and Smelting covers the melting down of said ores into refined metals. Then you have Blacksmith/Metalworking from Rifter 24 to cover actually making something out of said refined metals.

Very nice!

I just wish Palladium would have a page where all of these skills are available online...

I just created a module for northern Arkansas where one community is using a very innovative way to smelt iron and I created those skills...I didn't realize they were in the Rifter...

Are they in a Palladium section or a Rifts section? I generally don't read the Palladium sections, but maybe I should.

[PalladiumBrony]

How many skills do we want to have? How many specialties?
I added a few skills to my game for some NPCs involved in the refinement of metal ores....
Then last night I saw that the skill "MINING" covers ore refinement...

I got around that by having Mining from RUE and Smelting from Rifter 14: Mining exclusively covers the acquisition and quality assessment of metal ore, and Smelting covers the melting down of said ores into refined metals. Then you have Blacksmith/Metalworking from Rifter 24 to cover actually making something out of said refined metals.

Very nice!

I just wish Palladium would have a page where all of these skills are available online...

I just created a module for northern Arkansas where one community is using a very innovative way to smelt iron and I created those skills...I didn't realize they were in the Rifter...

Are they in a Palladium section or a Rifts section? I generally don't read the Palladium sections, but maybe I should.

Smelting appears in R14 in the section "Beneath the Surface", a Palladium Fantasy segment dedicated to working, travelling and fighting underground (in caverns and tunnels), while Blacksmithing/Metalworking is in the Rifter 24's section "Updating Yin-Sloth Jungles, which seeks to bring various skills from Yin-Sloth Jungles up to parity with 2nd Edition Palladium Fantasy (if I understand, YSJ was written when PF was only in 1st ed., so when PF got its 2nd Edition, YSJ was suddenly very outdated).

[Blue_Lion]

How many skills do we want to have? How many specialties?
I added a few skills to my game for some NPCs involved in the refinement of metal ores....
Then last night I saw that the skill "MINING" covers ore refinement...

I got around that by having Mining from RUE and Smelting from Rifter 14: Mining exclusively covers the acquisition and quality assessment of metal ore, and Smelting covers the melting down of said ores into refined metals. Then you have Blacksmith/Metalworking from Rifter 24 to cover actually making something out of said refined metals.

Very nice!

I just wish Palladium would have a page where all of these skills are available online...

I just created a module for northern Arkansas where one community is using a very innovative way to smelt iron and I created those skills...I didn't realize they were in the Rifter...

Are they in a Palladium section or a Rifts section? I generally don't read the Palladium sections, but maybe I should.

I think the only way something like that would exist is if it was made as a fan based refence kind of like a wiki. A list of skills and what books they are in should not be against any PB copy right.