What would happen? PBW

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

[Blue_Lion]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

It clearly would not be a particle beam weapon but if I understand your intent would be a focused gas dispensing weapon.

The easest way would problay be to heat the meatle to the point it becomes a gas, then shoot that gas. So you would be dealing some sort of super heated gas, silver based plasma weapon?

A hose shooting a stream of silver would be a type of sprayer shooting liquid mettle if I understand it right. That I think might be an sdc based attack.

[ShadowLogan]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

Well they already have this in Ion Weapons (they fire beams of charged atomic particles, and it would be possible to neutralize the ions given that is done in Ion Rocket Engines), the only thing we don't know is what ionized atoms are actually being used.

They way it works for what is being shot basically is Particle Beam = subatomic, Ion = Ionized Atoms, Plasma = a form of Ion (or some type of napalm like substance in some cases in Game), and Laser = Photons.

[Natasha]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

The challenge, from an electromagnetic perspective, is not whether subatomic or atomic; it is the particle's charge, since atoms are neutral. I do not know the current state of research on this matter, but I suppose that somewhere in the process, atoms have their electrons stripped—but I am speculating about that.

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

It clearly would not be a particle beam weapon but if I understand your intent would be a focused gas dispensing weapon.

The easest way would problay be to heat the meatle to the point it becomes a gas, then shoot that gas. So you would be dealing some sort of super heated gas, silver based plasma weapon?

A hose shooting a stream of silver would be a type of sprayer shooting liquid mettle if I understand it right. That I think might be an sdc based attack.

Nah, simply shooting liquid at the beasts likely isn't going to produce much damage. I was thinking accelerating atoms as fast as possible in massive quantities not of creating a flame thrower. I don't recall if silver simply touching a vamp or werewolf causes damage.

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

Well they already have this in Ion Weapons (they fire beams of charged atomic particles, and it would be possible to neutralize the ions given that is done in Ion Rocket Engines), the only thing we don't know is what ionized atoms are actually being used.

They way it works for what is being shot basically is Particle Beam = subatomic, Ion = Ionized Atoms, Plasma = a form of Ion (or some type of napalm like substance in some cases in Game), and Laser = Photons.

But they're charged atomic particles not charged atoms. To state another way, they're charged particles of an atom.

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

The challenge, from an electromagnetic perspective, is not whether subatomic or atomic; it is the particle's charge, since atoms are neutral. I do not know the current state of research on this matter, but I suppose that somewhere in the process, atoms have their electrons stripped—but I am speculating about that.

Hmm...

[Blue_Lion]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

It clearly would not be a particle beam weapon but if I understand your intent would be a focused gas dispensing weapon.

The easest way would problay be to heat the meatle to the point it becomes a gas, then shoot that gas. So you would be dealing some sort of super heated gas, silver based plasma weapon?

A hose shooting a stream of silver would be a type of sprayer shooting liquid mettle if I understand it right. That I think might be an sdc based attack.

Nah, simply shooting liquid at the beasts likely isn't going to produce much damage. I was thinking accelerating atoms as fast as possible in massive quantities not of creating a flame thrower. I don't recall if silver simply touching a vamp or werewolf causes damage.

So nah you agree with me that liquid silver weapon would be an sdc attack? you confused me here.(note: liquid silver would be quite hot and cause burns to vampires and werewolves but be poor weapon against MD creatures.)

PBW is not the right base for you idea, it would be either a silver based plasma or ion weapon. To me the risk would be that ion might change the nature of the silver(even though it is shooting the attoms fast), and typically has lower damage than the PBW. To match damage plasma would be the best choice making it a fast moving attack that is a mass of super heated silver gas/attoms. After the plasma cools down it might even leave a light silver coating on the target(but I am not an expert on plamsa so I may be wrong.)

Basically my point was this is not a PBW and we need to figure out the right base weapon. Then it would be possible to adjust it.

[rem1093]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

It clearly would not be a particle beam weapon but if I understand your intent would be a focused gas dispensing weapon.

The easest way would problay be to heat the meatle to the point it becomes a gas, then shoot that gas. So you would be dealing some sort of super heated gas, silver based plasma weapon?

A hose shooting a stream of silver would be a type of sprayer shooting liquid mettle if I understand it right. That I think might be an sdc based attack.

Nah, simply shooting liquid at the beasts likely isn't going to produce much damage. I was thinking accelerating atoms as fast as possible in massive quantities not of creating a flame thrower. I don't recall if silver simply touching a vamp or werewolf causes damage.

So nah you agree with me that liquid silver weapon would be an sdc attack? you confused me here.(note: liquid silver would be quite hot and cause burns to vampires and werewolves but be poor weapon against MD creatures.)

PBW is not the right base for you idea, it would be either a silver based plasma or ion weapon. To me the risk would be that ion might change the nature of the silver(even though it is shooting the attoms fast), and typically has lower damage than the PBW. To match damage plasma would be the best choice making it a fast moving attack that is a mass of super heated silver gas/attoms. After the plasma cools down it might even leave a light silver coating on the target(but I am not an expert on plamsa so I may be wrong.)

Basically my point was this is not a PBW and we need to figure out the right base weapon. Then it would be possible to adjust it.

What about something like a shotgun slug? I always thought that, that was what Pump rifle round are. A slug round with an explosive core. So why not do the same with liquid silver? A small SDC shape charge destroys the shell and pushes the silver into the Vamp. A think that Werewolves do, but do Vamps have an active bloodstream, And what would happen if the silver got into it?

[lather]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

It clearly would not be a particle beam weapon but if I understand your intent would be a focused gas dispensing weapon.

The easest way would problay be to heat the meatle to the point it becomes a gas, then shoot that gas. So you would be dealing some sort of super heated gas, silver based plasma weapon?

A hose shooting a stream of silver would be a type of sprayer shooting liquid mettle if I understand it right. That I think might be an sdc based attack.

Nah, simply shooting liquid at the beasts likely isn't going to produce much damage. I was thinking accelerating atoms as fast as possible in massive quantities not of creating a flame thrower. I don't recall if silver simply touching a vamp or werewolf causes damage.

So nah you agree with me that liquid silver weapon would be an sdc attack? you confused me here.(note: liquid silver would be quite hot and cause burns to vampires and werewolves but be poor weapon against MD creatures.)

PBW is not the right base for you idea, it would be either a silver based plasma or ion weapon. To me the risk would be that ion might change the nature of the silver(even though it is shooting the attoms fast), and typically has lower damage than the PBW. To match damage plasma would be the best choice making it a fast moving attack that is a mass of super heated silver gas/attoms. After the plasma cools down it might even leave a light silver coating on the target(but I am not an expert on plamsa so I may be wrong.)

Basically my point was this is not a PBW and we need to figure out the right base weapon. Then it would be possible to adjust it.

What about something like a shotgun slug? I always thought that, that was what Pump rifle round are. A slug round with an explosive core. So why not do the same with liquid silver? A small SDC shape charge destroys the shell and pushes the silver into the Vamp. A think that Werewolves do, but do Vamps have an active bloodstream, And what would happen if the silver got into it?

Frankly, I don't have time now to read up on all of this. I recall that one of the vampire books describes a "blood boiler" which is the injection of holy water. Injecting silver didn't work because vampires have to be cut to be damaged by silver. Introducing silver in such a way might do more damage. That's probably up to the GM. I'm speaking from memory so might have the canon wrong.

[taalismn]

If you want the silver for effect, I'm thinking less modified energy weapon and more straightforward projectile weapon.
Now spewing a stream of metallic liquid might have some desirable weapons-grades effects, much like self-forging warheads can be considered 'liquid' while being propelled at hypervelocity into optimal shape for in-atmosphere transit and armor penetration...but with regards to a stream, that would only really be effective in pulses, and with the liquid metal having the opportunity to cool/harden slightly to maintain shape.

With regards to a silver atom-spewing particle cannon, however, IMHO the concentration of silver would have to be quite high to make it effective, and you'd likely waste most of your ammunition spraying air. You MIGHT be able to get it into vulnerable tissues like eyes or already open wounds(forget about breathing in the case of vampires), but on the whole I'd rather go with more conventional means of meting out damage to vampires and other critters.

[Blue_Lion]

yea typically silver is at range by projectile. The pump pistol has silver rounds. Rail guns have silver rounds as do conventional guns. Guess the question should be what wp does the person have.

[Zer0 Kay]

What would happen if instead of subatomic particles a particle beam weapon (PBW) launched a stream of atoms?

What would the weapon have to look like in order to fire these larger masses? I'd assume a particle accelerator would be able to accelerate them but it would be at much lower speeds before they broke orbit due to their mass.

Basically what would need to be done to get a beam weapon where the beam was made out of atoms of silver?

At this point is it no longer a beam and more like a... well a hose shooting out a stream of silver?

It clearly would not be a particle beam weapon but if I understand your intent would be a focused gas dispensing weapon.

The easest way would problay be to heat the meatle to the point it becomes a gas, then shoot that gas. So you would be dealing some sort of super heated gas, silver based plasma weapon?

A hose shooting a stream of silver would be a type of sprayer shooting liquid mettle if I understand it right. That I think might be an sdc based attack.

Nah, simply shooting liquid at the beasts likely isn't going to produce much damage. I was thinking accelerating atoms as fast as possible in massive quantities not of creating a flame thrower. I don't recall if silver simply touching a vamp or werewolf causes damage.

So nah you agree with me that liquid silver weapon would be an sdc attack? you confused me here.(note: liquid silver would be quite hot and cause burns to vampires and werewolves but be poor weapon against MD creatures.)

PBW is not the right base for you idea, it would be either a silver based plasma or ion weapon. To me the risk would be that ion might change the nature of the silver(even though it is shooting the attoms fast), and typically has lower damage than the PBW. To match damage plasma would be the best choice making it a fast moving attack that is a mass of super heated silver gas/attoms. After the plasma cools down it might even leave a light silver coating on the target(but I am not an expert on plamsa so I may be wrong.)

Basically my point was this is not a PBW and we need to figure out the right base weapon. Then it would be possible to adjust it.

What about something like a shotgun slug? I always thought that, that was what Pump rifle round are. A slug round with an explosive core. So why not do the same with liquid silver? A small SDC shape charge destroys the shell and pushes the silver into the Vamp. A think that Werewolves do, but do Vamps have an active bloodstream, And what would happen if the silver got into it?

Why are so many assuming liquid. I want to accelerate atoms of silver fast enough to penitrate

[Zer0 Kay]

If you want the silver for effect, I'm thinking less modified energy weapon and more straightforward projectile weapon.
Now spewing a stream of metallic liquid might have some desirable weapons-grades effects, much like self-forging warheads can be considered 'liquid' while being propelled at hypervelocity into optimal shape for in-atmosphere transit and armor penetration...but with regards to a stream, that would only really be effective in pulses, and with the liquid metal having the opportunity to cool/harden slightly to maintain shape.

With regards to a silver atom-spewing particle cannon, however, IMHO the concentration of silver would have to be quite high to make it effective, and you'd likely waste most of your ammunition spraying air. You MIGHT be able to get it into vulnerable tissues like eyes or already open wounds(forget about breathing in the case of vampires), but on the whole I'd rather go with more conventional means of meting out damage to vampires and other critters.

Ah. I see people are assuming stream with liquid.

Since there is no way to turn atoms into relativistic beams that could possibly leave traces of silver behind... maybe something more like a 60000 psi water jet with silver atoms.

[lather]

You could always use TW if you're wanting an energy weapon, but, of course, that limits the folks that can use it.

Or GM fiat. It's a made-up future, after all.

[taalismn]

Stream as you describe it would be too diffuse to do much, or ANY, effect beyond some PBC-like effect.
It's like spraying rust at somebody...you might dirty them up, and get them coughing, but not do them any real damage.
Melt that iron into a crossbow bolt, a spearhead, or a cannonball, THEN stick them with it? Then you've got gross damage.

[Blue_Lion]

If you want the silver for effect, I'm thinking less modified energy weapon and more straightforward projectile weapon.
Now spewing a stream of metallic liquid might have some desirable weapons-grades effects, much like self-forging warheads can be considered 'liquid' while being propelled at hypervelocity into optimal shape for in-atmosphere transit and armor penetration...but with regards to a stream, that would only really be effective in pulses, and with the liquid metal having the opportunity to cool/harden slightly to maintain shape.

With regards to a silver atom-spewing particle cannon, however, IMHO the concentration of silver would have to be quite high to make it effective, and you'd likely waste most of your ammunition spraying air. You MIGHT be able to get it into vulnerable tissues like eyes or already open wounds(forget about breathing in the case of vampires), but on the whole I'd rather go with more conventional means of meting out damage to vampires and other critters.

Ah. I see people are assuming stream with liquid.

Since there is no way to turn atoms into relativistic beams that could possibly leave traces of silver behind... maybe something more like a 60000 psi water jet with silver atoms.

I assumed it would be like a gas. Liquid silver would be quite hot to make silver a liquid it would most likely have to be melted and it has a melting point around 1640f that would be nasty burn.

[taalismn]

[
I assumed it would be like a gas. Liquid silver would be quite hot to make silver a liquid it would most likely have to be melted and it has a melting point around 1640f that would be nasty burn.

Slag Gun...If you've got silver to BURN.

[glitterboy2098]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

[Zer0 Kay]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

The silver specifically wouldn't work or using something that large?

It's just hard for me to imagine we have weaponized photons, protons and ion then it skips all the way up to having to launch a considerable mass in order to do any damage. So between the sub atomic and the compound material there is only atomics which definately cant have the effect of the atom as it is being destroyed. So the only way to make silver particles penitrate the skin of a vamp besides using a mass of them wrapped into a bullet would be high pressure cutting nozzle with silver particulate in the water... HOWEVER, this wouldn't have the effect I wanted. Basically I was looking for a particle beam effect where particles deviate from the core making the beam wider and possibly leaving some of it behind. So I've gone from the small diameter of a bullet, looking for something that could make a baseball size hole in a vamp powdering it with silver particulate it wouldn't be able to mist away from then ended up at a very small aperature to shoot water from.

Oh well. Thanks for the input guys.

[taalismn]

Zero_Kay, I did try something similar with posting an idea for an enhancement to PBWs that would irradiate targets with effects similar to U-rounds. Use the target's own glowing necrotic tissue as the radiation source preventing fast regeneration. Sort of a 'fallout gun'.
Got shot down on that one, too, so it's not the first time PBW add-ons have gone glurg.

[Blue_Lion]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

The silver specifically wouldn't work or using something that large?

It's just hard for me to imagine we have weaponized photons, protons and ion then it skips all the way up to having to launch a considerable mass in order to do any damage. So between the sub atomic and the compound material there is only atomics which definately cant have the effect of the atom as it is being destroyed. So the only way to make silver particles penitrate the skin of a vamp besides using a mass of them wrapped into a bullet would be high pressure cutting nozzle with silver particulate in the water... HOWEVER, this wouldn't have the effect I wanted. Basically I was looking for a particle beam effect where particles deviate from the core making the beam wider and possibly leaving some of it behind. So I've gone from the small diameter of a bullet, looking for something that could make a baseball size hole in a vamp powdering it with silver particulate it wouldn't be able to mist away from then ended up at a very small aperature to shoot water from.

Oh well. Thanks for the input guys.

I think it is a matter of there is no known theoretical weapons that work the way you are looking for.
Light/laser weapons use photons to transfer thermal energy into the target and it is the thermal energy that damages the target. Particle beams as I understand it use subatomic particles to disrupt the atoms in its target.

Now then how does a silver atom by itself damage the target?-silver as I understand it allows you to damage a vampire but I do not recall if silver contact burns or damages a vampire. So while I know silver can negate a vampires immunity it does not to my knowledge damage a vampire.

A pressurized stream of liquid or gas can penetrait the skin of the person resulting in tisue damage and even poison the person.


Now then a gm or group could come up with a weapon that does not need to fallow any known weapon theory.

[Natasha]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

The silver specifically wouldn't work or using something that large?

It's just hard for me to imagine we have weaponized photons, protons and ion then it skips all the way up to having to launch a considerable mass in order to do any damage. So between the sub atomic and the compound material there is only atomics which definately cant have the effect of the atom as it is being destroyed. So the only way to make silver particles penitrate the skin of a vamp besides using a mass of them wrapped into a bullet would be high pressure cutting nozzle with silver particulate in the water... HOWEVER, this wouldn't have the effect I wanted. Basically I was looking for a particle beam effect where particles deviate from the core making the beam wider and possibly leaving some of it behind. So I've gone from the small diameter of a bullet, looking for something that could make a baseball size hole in a vamp powdering it with silver particulate it wouldn't be able to mist away from then ended up at a very small aperature to shoot water from.

Oh well. Thanks for the input guys.

I can't think of a reason why silver wouldn't work. They used a beam of silver atoms for the Stern-Gerlach Experiment.

Either road, the damage principles of laser and particle beams are the same: heat. Lasers deposit the energy on the surface of the target while particle beams deposit the energy in-depth and cylindrically. Particle beams deposit energy deeper into the target than lasers, and the energy transfer occurs (at least the theory predicts this) much, much faster. The American SDI programme developed the "10 kiloJoule criterion", which asserts ten kiloJoules properly applied will destroy just about anything. They used that criterion in their research into lasers and particle beams.

I wouldn't fuss too much about it. Charged particle beams are terrible weapons in space. They should ranges of maybe 5 meters. That's why the Americans were researching building neutral particle beam weapons for space-based weapons. And none of their work involved hand-held sized particle accelerators.

[Zer0 Kay]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

The silver specifically wouldn't work or using something that large?

It's just hard for me to imagine we have weaponized photons, protons and ion then it skips all the way up to having to launch a considerable mass in order to do any damage. So between the sub atomic and the compound material there is only atomics which definately cant have the effect of the atom as it is being destroyed. So the only way to make silver particles penitrate the skin of a vamp besides using a mass of them wrapped into a bullet would be high pressure cutting nozzle with silver particulate in the water... HOWEVER, this wouldn't have the effect I wanted. Basically I was looking for a particle beam effect where particles deviate from the core making the beam wider and possibly leaving some of it behind. So I've gone from the small diameter of a bullet, looking for something that could make a baseball size hole in a vamp powdering it with silver particulate it wouldn't be able to mist away from then ended up at a very small aperature to shoot water from.

Oh well. Thanks for the input guys.

I think it is a matter of there is no known theoretical weapons that work the way you are looking for.
Light/laser weapons use photons to transfer thermal energy into the target and it is the thermal energy that damages the target. Particle beams as I understand it use subatomic particles to disrupt the atoms in its target.

Now then how does a silver atom by itself damage the target?-silver as I understand it allows you to damage a vampire but I do not recall if silver contact burns or damages a vampire. So while I know silver can negate a vampires immunity it does not to my knowledge damage a vampire.

A pressurized stream of liquid or gas can penetrait the skin of the person resulting in tisue damage and even poison the person.


Now then a gm or group could come up with a weapon that does not need to fallow any known weapon theory.

A silver atoms by themselves would damage by punching trillions of microholes through the target?

[Blue_Lion]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

The silver specifically wouldn't work or using something that large?

It's just hard for me to imagine we have weaponized photons, protons and ion then it skips all the way up to having to launch a considerable mass in order to do any damage. So between the sub atomic and the compound material there is only atomics which definately cant have the effect of the atom as it is being destroyed. So the only way to make silver particles penitrate the skin of a vamp besides using a mass of them wrapped into a bullet would be high pressure cutting nozzle with silver particulate in the water... HOWEVER, this wouldn't have the effect I wanted. Basically I was looking for a particle beam effect where particles deviate from the core making the beam wider and possibly leaving some of it behind. So I've gone from the small diameter of a bullet, looking for something that could make a baseball size hole in a vamp powdering it with silver particulate it wouldn't be able to mist away from then ended up at a very small aperature to shoot water from.

Oh well. Thanks for the input guys.

I think it is a matter of there is no known theoretical weapons that work the way you are looking for.
Light/laser weapons use photons to transfer thermal energy into the target and it is the thermal energy that damages the target. Particle beams as I understand it use subatomic particles to disrupt the atoms in its target.

Now then how does a silver atom by itself damage the target?-silver as I understand it allows you to damage a vampire but I do not recall if silver contact burns or damages a vampire. So while I know silver can negate a vampires immunity it does not to my knowledge damage a vampire.

A pressurized stream of liquid or gas can penetrait the skin of the person resulting in tisue damage and even poison the person.


Now then a gm or group could come up with a weapon that does not need to fallow any known weapon theory.

A silver atoms by themselves would damage by punching trillions of microholes through the target?

So you are treating it like a kinitic kill weapon. The low mass of the atom would resault in a reduce affect penetration. would atom sized wholes be much of threat to a vampire. Damage by kinetic weapons the mass of the projectile as well as speed, the penitration would be verry limited.

[Zer0 Kay]

ignoring the silver question, since that really wouldn't work, what you've described is basically a neutral particle beam. there was some work on these done in the 80's as part of the whole SDI thing, but they proved to be a bit too ambitious for the technology of the time. they did learn enough to realize that lasers would be a more practical SDI technology to pursue. it is highly probable that the 80's research was partly inspired by studies of Nikolai Tesla's "teleforce" weapon design papers, which the US military and FBI had been given a chance to study the plans to shortly after Tesla's death. the weapon was hardly the deathray Tesla talked it up as, but then, he did need funding at the time. (the plans were taken in by the NY dept. of Taxation shortly after the FBI released them in 1943, as part of a general seizure of assets to cover back taxes.. which is where they seem to have vanished from history)

the NPB works by stripping electronics off of neutral atoms (usually something with a low atomic number, like hydrogen or helium), acceleration the charged nuclei, then adding electrons back shortly before it leaves the weapon. the end result is (if everything works) a near relativistic beam of atoms with all the oomph of a charged particle beam, but without the usual electrostatic spread issues. in practice it is far more complex and power intensive than a simple proton or electron accelerator based particle beam.

so yeah, this would be similar to the Ion weapons already in the game. though those i suspect don't do the "return the electrons" stage, given the name, resulting in a beam of positively charged atomic nuclei..

The silver specifically wouldn't work or using something that large?

It's just hard for me to imagine we have weaponized photons, protons and ion then it skips all the way up to having to launch a considerable mass in order to do any damage. So between the sub atomic and the compound material there is only atomics which definately cant have the effect of the atom as it is being destroyed. So the only way to make silver particles penitrate the skin of a vamp besides using a mass of them wrapped into a bullet would be high pressure cutting nozzle with silver particulate in the water... HOWEVER, this wouldn't have the effect I wanted. Basically I was looking for a particle beam effect where particles deviate from the core making the beam wider and possibly leaving some of it behind. So I've gone from the small diameter of a bullet, looking for something that could make a baseball size hole in a vamp powdering it with silver particulate it wouldn't be able to mist away from then ended up at a very small aperature to shoot water from.

Oh well. Thanks for the input guys.

I think it is a matter of there is no known theoretical weapons that work the way you are looking for.
Light/laser weapons use photons to transfer thermal energy into the target and it is the thermal energy that damages the target. Particle beams as I understand it use subatomic particles to disrupt the atoms in its target.

Now then how does a silver atom by itself damage the target?-silver as I understand it allows you to damage a vampire but I do not recall if silver contact burns or damages a vampire. So while I know silver can negate a vampires immunity it does not to my knowledge damage a vampire.

A pressurized stream of liquid or gas can penetrait the skin of the person resulting in tisue damage and even poison the person.


Now then a gm or group could come up with a weapon that does not need to fallow any known weapon theory.

A silver atoms by themselves would damage by punching trillions of microholes through the target?

So you are treating it like a kinitic kill weapon. The low mass of the atom would resault in a reduce affect penetration. would atom sized wholes be much of threat to a vampire. Damage by kinetic weapons the mass of the projectile as well as speed, the penitration would be verry limited.

Yes. Reduce mass so increase the speed, but by how much? It's also a beam/stream of the atoms so how many atoms going at what speed would be needed to do considerable damage? However the smaller surface area of an atom requires less force to penetrate flesh than a bullet does... how much less?

[Natasha]

Relativistic particles have energies much larger than the binding energies that differentiate gases and solids. A relativistic particle interacts with solids precisely as it does with gases. That is, a solid is just a dense gas. So, treating relativistic particles as tiny bullets is incorrect. In real life (which Rifts isn't) you'd have to get into high-energy particle physics.

That said, it's your game (and your topic), follow the path you want. If you're going to use a classical dynamics, that's cool; and I'm happy to follow that path if you want.

[Zer0 Kay]

Relativistic particles have energies much larger than the binding energies that differentiate gases and solids. A relativistic particle interacts with solids precisely as it does with gases. That is, a solid is just a dense gas. So, treating relativistic particles as tiny bullets is incorrect. In real life (which Rifts isn't) you'd have to get into high-energy particle physics.

That said, it's your game (and your topic), follow the path you want. If you're going to use a classical dynamics, that's cool; and I'm happy to follow that path if you want.

But what if it wasn't traveling at relativistic speeds... (tangent) why aren't all speeds relativistic because isn't it all relative to the observer? More serious tangent at what fraction of light speed does it become relativistic? I could look it up but I have a feeling your answer will be more entertaining.(/tangent) what non-relativistic speed would an atom have to travel to penetrate flesh.

Back to the relativistic. If a PBW is using silver atoms is it possible for some of those atoms to come to rest in the body it is penetrating?

[Natasha]

Relativistic particles have energies much larger than the binding energies that differentiate gases and solids. A relativistic particle interacts with solids precisely as it does with gases. That is, a solid is just a dense gas. So, treating relativistic particles as tiny bullets is incorrect. In real life (which Rifts isn't) you'd have to get into high-energy particle physics.

That said, it's your game (and your topic), follow the path you want. If you're going to use a classical dynamics, that's cool; and I'm happy to follow that path if you want.

But what if it wasn't traveling at relativistic speeds... (tangent) why aren't all speeds relativistic because isn't it all relative to the observer? More serious tangent at what fraction of light speed does it become relativistic? I could look it up but I have a feeling your answer will be more entertaining.(/tangent) what non-relativistic speed would an atom have to travel to penetrate flesh.

Back to the relativistic. If a PBW is using silver atoms is it possible for some of those atoms to come to rest in the body it is penetrating?

Here "relativistic" relates to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, which accurately describes high-speed objects. That term is opposed to "classical", which began, formally, with Newton's Principia. Galileo's Principle of Relativity is not strictly correct, and Einstein's Principle of Relativity provides the fix. The divergence of the classical mathematical expression for kinetic energy from the relativistic expression starts to become significant around 12% the speed of light—which is a lot faster than anything we encounter in our everyday lives. Therefore, "classical" dynamics is just a special case of "relativistic" dynamics.

Einstein did more than bring Galilean Relativity into correctness; he also asserted that all observers measure the same speed of light. Indeed, this was consistent with Maxwell's hypothesis that light was an electromagnetic phenomenon. When Maxwell developed electromagnetism, he derived an electromagnetic wave equation which predicted all such waves travel at the same speed and he knew that light was a wave from Thomas Young's 1801 experiment.

Anyway, what happens if an object travelling at the speed of light approaches another object going at the speed of light on the same axis? The classical theory says the relative speed is twice the speed of light. Einstein's theory says this is impossible. And, so, there are different methods for even measuring relative speed when high speeds are involved.

In most cases, yes, the relative speed depends on the relative motion of source and observer.

The Americans' SDI programme asserted that charged particle beams (CPBs) are thermal kill weapons. The basis for that analysis is thermal diffusion, which occurs rapidly in-depth. The damage done is by way of vapourising the target. Given the density of solid matter, the predicted penetration is probably as small as a couple of centimetres, which is generally sufficient according to the ten kiloJoule criterion that they developed. So it seems reasonable to say a CPB will not pass through a body, or at least not very far beyond.

Note that a neutral particle beam behaves precisely like a CPB once inside the target.

[rem1093]

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

[guardiandashi]

when talking particle beam weapons you really have 3 main flavors.
the positive charged particle weapon.
the neutral particle beam
and the negative charged particle weapon sometimes called an electro laser or ion gun

with the positive charged weapon, you strip some or all of the electrons off the nuclei of the "fuel atoms" then accelerate them to typically relativistic speeds and "throw" them at your target. note I am simplifying a lot, but that is the general idea. and the specific atoms used don't really matter, except in an engineering sense. note its quite possible that a particle beam weapon firing protons (electron stripped hydrogen) could fire its atoms at 90-98% of light speed, and one firing silver atoms at 50-70% of the speed of light to get similar effects, or another 90% speed of light silver particle beam that just throws less silver atoms at a time.

[Natasha]

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

The basis of analysis for directed energy is still heat diffusion to raise internal temperatures. That could have the effect of drying things out or increase the temperature to the temperature of vapourisation; it depends. Not sure if that's like Desiccate the Supernatural which could be entirely magical.

[ShadowLogan]

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

There ARE a few microwave based weapons in the books (SB3's Gargoyle 'bot comes to mind).

It depends on what you mean by "drawing out the moisture". The Microwave weapon noted above works by heating the object to combust (it can roast a person in body armor, and disrupt sensors and communication systems).

[Blue_Lion]

when talking particle beam weapons you really have 3 main flavors.
the positive charged particle weapon.
the neutral particle beam
and the negative charged particle weapon sometimes called an electro laser or ion gun

with the positive charged weapon, you strip some or all of the electrons off the nuclei of the "fuel atoms" then accelerate them to typically relativistic speeds and "throw" them at your target. note I am simplifying a lot, but that is the general idea. and the specific atoms used don't really matter, except in an engineering sense. note its quite possible that a particle beam weapon firing protons (electron stripped hydrogen) could fire its atoms at 90-98% of light speed, and one firing silver atoms at 50-70% of the speed of light to get similar effects, or another 90% speed of light silver particle beam that just throws less silver atoms at a time.

How many of those flavors are rifts?
Rifts particle weapons run on eclips and no other ammunition is listed as being used.
needing to load a cartage of silver and break it down to atoms then launching them to me would seam to be a inefficient use of resources.

In addition as I understand it a neutral particle weapon starts by ionizing the atom by striping away electrons or adding electrons. That means it likely changes the silver atom to something else.

[Natasha]

It only needs to be charge for acceleration. The atoms are neutralised before the beam emerges.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Why are so many assuming liquid. I want to accelerate atoms of silver fast enough to penitrate

A grenade or other explosive device wrapped in silver would accelerate the hell out of some silver atoms. Granted the atoms would be grouped together to form molecules of silver, which given enough of them makes a mass of the element silver. Which is accelerated all to hell and back by the explosion. Plus you get a really nice BOOM out of it.

(I commented before reading the entire thread)

The following link might provide a better explanation on how/why silver effects Vampires/werewolves/the supernatural.

https://mythology.stackexchange.com/que ... e-vampires

TL:DR Silver is pure. Monsters are impure. Therefore contact with it (I don't believe it has to be penetration, merely physical contact imho) hurts them. Like matter/anti-matter. You can't put them together without bad things happening.

[rem1093]

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

There ARE a few microwave based weapons in the books (SB3's Gargoyle 'bot comes to mind).

It depends on what you mean by "drawing out the moisture". The Microwave weapon noted above works by heating the object to combust (it can roast a person in body armor, and disrupt sensors and communication systems).

Was thinking not as a cooker but a Dehydrator, focus the beam so that it hits a small part of the body drying out the muscles, blood, ext.
I also think most armor and vehicles (anything with EVA) should have protection from microwaves.

[Natasha]

Why are so many assuming liquid. I want to accelerate atoms of silver fast enough to penitrate

A grenade or other explosive device wrapped in silver would accelerate the hell out of some silver atoms. Granted the atoms would be grouped together to form molecules of silver, which given enough of them makes a mass of the element silver. Which is accelerated all to hell and back by the explosion. Plus you get a really nice BOOM out of it.

(I commented before reading the entire thread)

The following link might provide a better explanation on how/why silver effects Vampires/werewolves/the supernatural.

https://mythology.stackexchange.com/que ... e-vampires

TL:DR Silver is pure. Monsters are impure. Therefore contact with it (I don't believe it has to be penetration, merely physical contact imho) hurts them. Like matter/anti-matter. You can't put them together without bad things happening.

+1 for boom

But in Rifts, canonically speaking, vampires can touch silver without bad things happening.

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

There ARE a few microwave based weapons in the books (SB3's Gargoyle 'bot comes to mind).

It depends on what you mean by "drawing out the moisture". The Microwave weapon noted above works by heating the object to combust (it can roast a person in body armor, and disrupt sensors and communication systems).

Was thinking not as a cooker but a Dehydrator, focus the beam so that it hits a small part of the body drying out the muscles, blood, ext.
I also think most armor and vehicles (anything with EVA) should have protection from microwaves.

Again, dehydrators work by raising the temperature.

[Zer0 Kay]

Why are so many assuming liquid. I want to accelerate atoms of silver fast enough to penitrate

A grenade or other explosive device wrapped in silver would accelerate the hell out of some silver atoms. Granted the atoms would be grouped together to form molecules of silver, which given enough of them makes a mass of the element silver. Which is accelerated all to hell and back by the explosion. Plus you get a really nice BOOM out of it.

(I commented before reading the entire thread)

The following link might provide a better explanation on how/why silver effects Vampires/werewolves/the supernatural.

https://mythology.stackexchange.com/que ... e-vampires

TL:DR Silver is pure. Monsters are impure. Therefore contact with it (I don't believe it has to be penetration, merely physical contact imho) hurts them. Like matter/anti-matter. You can't put them together without bad things happening.

+1 for boom

Only if he didn't look back at the explosion.

But in Rifts, canonically speaking, vampires can touch silver without bad things happening.

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

There ARE a few microwave based weapons in the books (SB3's Gargoyle 'bot comes to mind).

It depends on what you mean by "drawing out the moisture". The Microwave weapon noted above works by heating the object to combust (it can roast a person in body armor, and disrupt sensors and communication systems).

Was thinking not as a cooker but a Dehydrator, focus the beam so that it hits a small part of the body drying out the muscles, blood, ext.
I also think most armor and vehicles (anything with EVA) should have protection from microwaves.

Again, dehydrators work by raising the temperature.

A fully sealed suit that is supposed to be capable of surviving outer space should be shielded against radio waves. If they weren't a lightning bolt spell would bypass the armor and use the person inside as a conductor. Unless it is some sort of spread spectrum microwave transmitter it is unlikely to adversely affect all sensors or communications and the more spread it is the less power it can produce. Alternately it could be an agile system that identifies the desired frequency to jam and then shifts to it. But then that goes back to not being able to do everything at once. Or it could have multiple transmitters

[Natasha]

And +2 for walking away in slow motion.

Human shielding exists in space, but it isn't the same as being on the surface; still, a particularly energetic solar flare will be catastrophic. The goal of any particle beam weapon is a high-energy, high-current beam. The theory predicts rapid vapourisation of a small chunk of the target.

[Zer0 Kay]

And +2 for walking away in slow motion.

Human shielding exists in space, but it isn't the same as being on the surface; still, a particularly energetic solar flare will be catastrophic. The goal of any particle beam weapon is a high-energy, high-current beam. The theory predicts rapid vapourisation of a small chunk of the target.

Arent the billions of microholes also damaging?

Or by virtue of their size to they essentially auto seal?

[Blue_Lion]

Why are so many assuming liquid. I want to accelerate atoms of silver fast enough to penitrate

A grenade or other explosive device wrapped in silver would accelerate the hell out of some silver atoms. Granted the atoms would be grouped together to form molecules of silver, which given enough of them makes a mass of the element silver. Which is accelerated all to hell and back by the explosion. Plus you get a really nice BOOM out of it.

(I commented before reading the entire thread)

The following link might provide a better explanation on how/why silver effects Vampires/werewolves/the supernatural.

https://mythology.stackexchange.com/que ... e-vampires

TL:DR Silver is pure. Monsters are impure. Therefore contact with it (I don't believe it has to be penetration, merely physical contact imho) hurts them. Like matter/anti-matter. You can't put them together without bad things happening.

+1 for boom

Only if he didn't look back at the explosion.

But in Rifts, canonically speaking, vampires can touch silver without bad things happening.

Was thinking about this and i remembered the spell Desiccate the Supernatural. It says that it works by drawing out the moisture from the body. So I was thinking, couldn't a Microwave based weapon have the same effect?

There ARE a few microwave based weapons in the books (SB3's Gargoyle 'bot comes to mind).

It depends on what you mean by "drawing out the moisture". The Microwave weapon noted above works by heating the object to combust (it can roast a person in body armor, and disrupt sensors and communication systems).

Was thinking not as a cooker but a Dehydrator, focus the beam so that it hits a small part of the body drying out the muscles, blood, ext.
I also think most armor and vehicles (anything with EVA) should have protection from microwaves.

Again, dehydrators work by raising the temperature.

A fully sealed suit that is supposed to be capable of surviving outer space should be shielded against radio waves. If they weren't a lightning bolt spell would bypass the armor and use the person inside as a conductor. Unless it is some sort of spread spectrum microwave transmitter it is unlikely to adversely affect all sensors or communications and the more spread it is the less power it can produce. Alternately it could be an agile system that identifies the desired frequency to jam and then shifts to it. But then that goes back to not being able to do everything at once. Or it could have multiple transmitters

My rulling on microwave weapon in my gamae(not offical) is they can not penertrat EBA do to shielding and instead damage eba as normal, non eba is bypassed by it damaging the person inside the armor.

[Natasha]

And +2 for walking away in slow motion.

Human shielding exists in space, but it isn't the same as being on the surface; still, a particularly energetic solar flare will be catastrophic. The goal of any particle beam weapon is a high-energy, high-current beam. The theory predicts rapid vapourisation of a small chunk of the target.

Arent the billions of microholes also damaging?

Or by virtue of their size to they essentially auto seal?

The interactions will be microscopic, so there won't be any holes. When one particle impacts another, the affected particle accelerates which causes a temperature increase. The goal of particle beam weapons is to raise that temperature to the temperature of vapourisation. The American SDI programme aimed to vaporise one cubic centimetre of material. To do this requires high-energy and high-current particle beams.

[Hotrod]

What if you shot a hollow, cross-shaped projectile made of silver and filled with holy out of a rail gun at a vampire?

The silver rips open a wound, while doing whatever crosses do to vampires these days. At the same time, the cross breaks up as it passes through the undead flesh, and a splash of holy water jets through the vampire's innards at supersonic speeds.

[Zer0 Kay]

And +2 for walking away in slow motion.

Human shielding exists in space, but it isn't the same as being on the surface; still, a particularly energetic solar flare will be catastrophic. The goal of any particle beam weapon is a high-energy, high-current beam. The theory predicts rapid vapourisation of a small chunk of the target.

Arent the billions of microholes also damaging?

Or by virtue of their size to they essentially auto seal?

The interactions will be microscopic, so there won't be any holes. When one particle impacts another, the affected particle accelerates which causes a temperature increase. The goal of particle beam weapons is to raise that temperature to the temperature of vapourisation. The American SDI programme aimed to vaporise one cubic centimetre of material. To do this requires high-energy and high-current particle beams.

Isn't that effect better performed at longer ranges with lasers?

[Zer0 Kay]

What if you shot a hollow, cross-shaped projectile made of silver and filled with holy out of a rail gun at a vampire?

The silver rips open a wound, while doing whatever crosses do to vampires these days. At the same time, the cross breaks up as it passes through the undead flesh, and a splash of holy water jets through the vampire's innards at supersonic speeds.

Rail or coil? The burst firing weapons called railguns are more likely coilguns which wouldn't be able to shoot silver anything as silver isn't ferrous. A railgun on the other hand could use an armature to push that out, but why bother just get a boomgun and fill it with silver flechettes with crosses etched on it.

[Natasha]

And +2 for walking away in slow motion.

Human shielding exists in space, but it isn't the same as being on the surface; still, a particularly energetic solar flare will be catastrophic. The goal of any particle beam weapon is a high-energy, high-current beam. The theory predicts rapid vapourisation of a small chunk of the target.

Arent the billions of microholes also damaging?

Or by virtue of their size to they essentially auto seal?

The interactions will be microscopic, so there won't be any holes. When one particle impacts another, the affected particle accelerates which causes a temperature increase. The goal of particle beam weapons is to raise that temperature to the temperature of vapourisation. The American SDI programme aimed to vaporise one cubic centimetre of material. To do this requires high-energy and high-current particle beams.

Isn't that effect better performed at longer ranges with lasers?

Depends on what constitutes better performance. A laser deposits its energy on the surface, and it conducts from there into the material. A particle beam deposits its energy inside (possibly even on the other side of) the substance. The particle beam probably vapourises the material much faster than the laser.

What if you shot a hollow, cross-shaped projectile made of silver and filled with holy out of a rail gun at a vampire?

The silver rips open a wound, while doing whatever crosses do to vampires these days. At the same time, the cross breaks up as it passes through the undead flesh, and a splash of holy water jets through the vampire's innards at supersonic speeds.

Rail or coil? The burst firing weapons called railguns are more likely coilguns which wouldn't be able to shoot silver anything as silver isn't ferrous. A railgun on the other hand could use an armature to push that out, but why bother just get a boomgun and fill it with silver flechettes with crosses etched on it.

Couldn't a coilgun accelerate a ferrous sabot?

[eliakon]

Just to make a point here.
Silver bullets do half damage to vampires supposedly due to issues relating to their small size.
Now if a bullet is so little it is doing half damage, a few atoms of silver is... well its background count. Vampires don't take damage for breathing in the vicinity of a silver mine. Nor do they melt due to humidity.

A sliver particle beam is a rube-Goldberg device that would need magic to make it work. Now as a 'delivery method' for a TW now your talking. In that context it has the sort of 'flavor' that fits.

[lather]

Which means silver bullets inflict their normal S.D.C. damage to vampires.

[Zer0 Kay]

Relativistic particles have energies much larger than the binding energies that differentiate gases and solids. A relativistic particle interacts with solids precisely as it does with gases. That is, a solid is just a dense gas. So, treating relativistic particles as tiny bullets is incorrect. In real life (which Rifts isn't) you'd have to get into high-energy particle physics.

That said, it's your game (and your topic), follow the path you want. If you're going to use a classical dynamics, that's cool; and I'm happy to follow that path if you want.

But what if it wasn't traveling at relativistic speeds... (tangent) why aren't all speeds relativistic because isn't it all relative to the observer? More serious tangent at what fraction of light speed does it become relativistic? I could look it up but I have a feeling your answer will be more entertaining.(/tangent) what non-relativistic speed would an atom have to travel to penetrate flesh.

Back to the relativistic. If a PBW is using silver atoms is it possible for some of those atoms to come to rest in the body it is penetrating?

Here "relativistic" relates to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, which accurately describes high-speed objects. That term is opposed to "classical", which began, formally, with Newton's Principia. Galileo's Principle of Relativity is not strictly correct, and Einstein's Principle of Relativity provides the fix. The divergence of the classical mathematical expression for kinetic energy from the relativistic expression starts to become significant around 12% the speed of light—which is a lot faster than anything we encounter in our everyday lives. Therefore, "classical" dynamics is just a special case of "relativistic" dynamics.

Einstein did more than bring Galilean Relativity into correctness; he also asserted that all observers measure the same speed of light. Indeed, this was consistent with Maxwell's hypothesis that light was an electromagnetic phenomenon. When Maxwell developed electromagnetism, he derived an electromagnetic wave equation which predicted all such waves travel at the same speed and he knew that light was a wave from Thomas Young's 1801 experiment.

Anyway, what happens if an object travelling at the speed of light approaches another object going at the speed of light on the same axis? The classical theory says the relative speed is twice the speed of light. Einstein's theory says this is impossible. And, so, there are different methods for even measuring relative speed when high speeds are involved.

In most cases, yes, the relative speed depends on the relative motion of source and observer.

The Americans' SDI programme asserted that charged particle beams (CPBs) are thermal kill weapons. The basis for that analysis is thermal diffusion, which occurs rapidly in-depth. The damage done is by way of vapourising the target. Given the density of solid matter, the predicted penetration is probably as small as a couple of centimetres, which is generally sufficient according to the ten kiloJoule criterion that they developed. So it seems reasonable to say a CPB will not pass through a body, or at least not very far beyond.

Note that a neutral particle beam behaves precisely like a CPB once inside the target.

Thank you for the awesome lesson.