Sniping

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Mack
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Sniping

Unread post by Mack »

So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by shadrak »

Is there a magic spell or psionic ability that grants a bonus to ranged combat? I don't see that on the list if there is one.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by 13eowulf »

Mack wrote:So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?


There are those special hand-crafted rifles in either Dinosaur Swamp or Adventures in Dinosaur Swamp that also provide a +2 bonus, but this bonus is specified to be a 'natural' bonus, and are considered part of the natural dice roll before other bonuses (and thus apply to or increase the critical strike threshold). Not really an extra bonus, but an alternative one.

Also the Weapon Specialization skill from Rifter 30 (which seems to be generally applicable to any W.P.). I would suggest Weapons Mastery as well (same Rifter), but they don't have any for modern weapons, you would have to modify the Archery W.M. to fit Rifles.

There is also the T.A.G. MOS from Rifter 23, if your base OCC can take a MOS.

That is what I can think of under the "not min-maxing" qualifier.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

WB5 pg151 Laser Targeting Add on +3 Strike Aimed Shots (increases range of weapon can use)

MercOps pg105 has Wilks Gun Scope add-on for +2 Strike (increase range of weapon can use)

Scopes and Gunsights aren't stack-able so the Cyber-Eye might not work with them.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by kaid »

Mack wrote:So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?


Given you would be typically shooting at small targets at -3 when sniping that sounds about right. Pretty close to guaranteed on a stationary target in normal range for a sniper speced and equipped for it.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Mack »

Hmm, realized I skipped over using a gun scope. (Duh.)

RGMG p189 has a Laser Targeting scope that provides a +3 to aimed shots, which is better than what the Wilk's 587 provides. But I'd probably rule that it's not additive with the Multi-Optic Eye.

So that would be:
+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])
+1 from a typical Wilk's rifle, like the 447 or 457. (Or for engagements within 1,000 feet the Wilk's 330 Sniper Pistol has a +3[RGMG p175])
+3 from Laser Targeting scope (RGMG p189)

That's up to a +9 to strike on an aimed shot with a rifle (or +11 with the sniper pistol). Not shabby. That's high enough that he could reliably perform aimed-called shots against very small targets like dinosaur eyes. The damage with those weapons is low, but I could trade off the rifle's +1 for a higher damage.

--------------EDIT--------------------

And I just noticed that WP Energy Pistol gives a +1 at each odd level including level 1, whereas WP Energy Rifle gives a bonus at each even level starting with level 2. That gives another little boost to using the Wilk's sniper pistol, now at +12.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Hotrod »

What about bows/crossbows? Could you have a higher sniping strike bonus with some magic bows/arrows?
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by 13eowulf »

Hotrod wrote:What about bows/crossbows? Could you have a higher sniping strike bonus with some magic bows/arrows?


If you go with Archery you can use the Zanji Shinjinken-Ryu HtH from N&SS.
Also you can fully use Weapon Mastery from Rifter 30
Not to mention the Archery Proficiencies from Rifter 45

If you use the Pinaak Longbow from Splicers (Rifter 37 I think) and combine it with the weapon enhancements from Rifter 0, you can get a nicely bonused and custom weapon.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by eliakon »

The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots
There is the Sniper Advanced Training from Heroes of Humanity which offers another bonus (and is said to be available elsewhere)
the Sharp Shooter skill is available to some, and it provides strike bonuses to all firearms not just pistols

Magically you could have Mystic Marksmanship and Quick Strike spells. Both are low enough to be put in talismans. A TW could even make a TW Rifle that has one or both of them included.

There are a number of skills and abilities in the Rifter and several other games that are not specifically setting specific. Thus if the game allows the selection of skills or the like from other books so as to widen the skill base or uses Rifter material they will be available for use.
These include
Critical Strikes (Splicers)
Trick Shooting (BTS2)
Archery Proficencies (some of them seem to be perfect for use with guns not just bows. Especially since they can be used with crossbows)
Vital Points skill (Rifter or Splicers)
Raising your skill level above your own level (Mysteries of Magic)
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by The Beast »

Mack wrote:So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?


Well if Bob is lucky enough to find someone willing to teach him Jujutsu he'll have access to the Martial Arts Techniques, and he can take One Life, One Shot, One Hit, One Kill. This technique can be used with any weapon, ancient or modern, just not a punch, kick, or similar attack. Bob just picks a spot from his target that's well concealed and start using the power. Every 15 seconds he'll gain a +1 to strike the target, plus if the total with bonuses is 20 or better Bob does a critical strike.

EDIT: Now personally I believe the intent of this ability was for hand-held weapons only, and not weapons mounted on vehicles or mecha units.However seeing as N&S also has the Gizmoteer OCC, and they could select skills that would allow them to modify vehicles for combat I can see someone arguing that vehicle-mounted weapons can be used with this power. If that's the case I will point out that the user of the power has to attack the moment they stop focusing on it, and can't take an action between that and rolling to strike.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by The Beast »

Oh, and if you really want some strike bonuses, the TOW Heavy Anti-Tank Weapon System on page 139 of the Compendium of Contemporary Weapons has a hit probability of 90%. Converting it to a d20 roll would give you a +18 to strike. Combining the weapon with the MAT above would mean you're only missing on a roll of a natural 1.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by eliakon »

The Beast wrote:
Mack wrote:So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?


Well if Bob is lucky enough to find someone willing to teach him Jujutsu he'll have access to the Martial Arts Techniques, and he can take One Life, One Shot, One Hit, One Kill. This technique can be used with any weapon, ancient or modern, just not a punch, kick, or similar attack. Bob just picks a spot from his target that's well concealed and start using the power. Every 15 seconds he'll gain a +1 to strike the target, plus if the total with bonuses is 20 or better Bob does a critical strike.

EDIT: Now personally I believe the intent of this ability was for hand-held weapons only, and not weapons mounted on vehicles or mecha units.However seeing as N&S also has the Gizmoteer OCC, and they could select skills that would allow them to modify vehicles for combat I can see someone arguing that vehicle-mounted weapons can be used with this power. If that's the case I will point out that the user of the power has to attack the moment they stop focusing on it, and can't take an action between that and rolling to strike.

Problem with OLOSOHOK is that you cant use it with most weapons.
No seriously. Read the book.
You can only get it via taking a full MAF.
And you can only use MAF's with weapons that you have a kata for.
So unless you can convince your GM to let you take a W.P. Rifle kata your out of luck.
And since you can not have both a MAF and a normal H2H (with out being a dedicated Martial Artist) your out of luck there too.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by eliakon »

The Beast wrote:Oh, and if you really want some strike bonuses, the TOW Heavy Anti-Tank Weapon System on page 139 of the Compendium of Contemporary Weapons has a hit probability of 90%. Converting it to a d20 roll would give you a +18 to strike. Combining the weapon with the MAT above would mean you're only missing on a roll of a natural 1.

Hit probability of 90% =/= +anything to strike.
It is a flat chance of hitting that does not call for, nor allow for a strike roll. No more, no less.
Which is also why it is in a non-core book that is not fully mechanically compatible with the rest of the game.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Mack wrote:So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?


Bob might be lucky enough to get the Marksmanship Advanced Training from Heroes of Humanity.
Bob could also be a Paratrooper OCC. (see their 'Marksmanship' ability)
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Shark_Force »

someone has already mentioned it, but i really would like to reiterate... the vital points skill from splicers (incorrectly called the critical strikes skill) is imo the best way i've seen yet to make a character that feels like a sniper.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Shark_Force wrote:someone has already mentioned it, but i really would like to reiterate... the vital points skill from splicers (incorrectly called the critical strikes skill) is imo the best way i've seen yet to make a character that feels like a sniper.



It's been a long time since I opened the Splicers book, and I think this was the only place the skill was mentioned, but for some reason I thought the skill only applied to HtH? Again it's been ages since I read it and could be wrong.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:someone has already mentioned it, but i really would like to reiterate... the vital points skill from splicers (incorrectly called the critical strikes skill) is imo the best way i've seen yet to make a character that feels like a sniper.



It's been a long time since I opened the Splicers book, and I think this was the only place the skill was mentioned, but for some reason I thought the skill only applied to HtH? Again it's been ages since I read it and could be wrong.


it never specifies that it works only with melee. it also never specifies that it doesn't. given it doesn't limit the skill, i've always operated under the assumption that it does work with ranged, but YMMV.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Mack »

eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Bob might be lucky enough to get the Marksmanship Advanced Training from Heroes of Humanity.

I suspected HoH would have something like that. I've yet to read it, but it's on my list.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Bob could also be a Paratrooper OCC. (see their 'Marksmanship' ability)

A good suggestion. Paratroopers get a nice +2 strike on a Aimed/Called Shot. [I've never been a fan of the class so I failed to check it. I always felt the class would fit better into Rifts if they used e-clip powered Jet Packs instead of parachutes. But that's a different discussion.]

Adding the Paratrooper's bonus to my last go-round, that raises it to +11 Strike with a rifle (and +13 with the sniper pistol).

And while I appreciate the suggestions from N&S, Splicers, or magic spells, they don't fit the theme I was working with.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by 13eowulf »

Mack wrote:
eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.


While listed there, contained within the description are rules for other classes taking it as a skill. IIRC it takes 2 skill slots, and you cannot use secondary skills. Otherwise it can be taken by other OCCs.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by kaid »

Mack wrote:
eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Bob might be lucky enough to get the Marksmanship Advanced Training from Heroes of Humanity.

I suspected HoH would have something like that. I've yet to read it, but it's on my list.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Bob could also be a Paratrooper OCC. (see their 'Marksmanship' ability)

A good suggestion. Paratroopers get a nice +2 strike on a Aimed/Called Shot. [I've never been a fan of the class so I failed to check it. I always felt the class would fit better into Rifts if they used e-clip powered Jet Packs instead of parachutes. But that's a different discussion.]

Adding the Paratrooper's bonus to my last go-round, that raises it to +11 Strike with a rifle (and +13 with the sniper pistol).

And while I appreciate the suggestions from N&S, Splicers, or magic spells, they don't fit the theme I was working with.


CS dino hunter with some of the heroes of humanity options I think they have a marksman advanced training thing that gives some pluses but I don't have the book in front of me atm.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Mack »

13eowulf wrote:
Mack wrote:
eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.


While listed there, contained within the description are rules for other classes taking it as a skill. IIRC it takes 2 skill slots, and you cannot use secondary skills. Otherwise it can be taken by other OCCs.


I stand corrected! I (obviously) overlooked that aspect. Thank you.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by 13eowulf »

Mack wrote:
13eowulf wrote:
Mack wrote:
eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.


While listed there, contained within the description are rules for other classes taking it as a skill. IIRC it takes 2 skill slots, and you cannot use secondary skills. Otherwise it can be taken by other OCCs.


I stand corrected! I (obviously) overlooked that aspect. Thank you.

My long hours spent searching for skills should come in helpful to someone....

And given the number of related skills a paratrooper allow you to have both that OCC and the stalking skill...
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by eliakon »

13eowulf wrote:
Mack wrote:
13eowulf wrote:
Mack wrote:
eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.


While listed there, contained within the description are rules for other classes taking it as a skill. IIRC it takes 2 skill slots, and you cannot use secondary skills. Otherwise it can be taken by other OCCs.


I stand corrected! I (obviously) overlooked that aspect. Thank you.

My long hours spent searching for skills should come in helpful to someone....

And given the number of related skills a paratrooper allow you to have both that OCC and the stalking skill...

heh heh, there is a reason that Lynette was almost a paratrooper :D
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Mack wrote:And while I appreciate the suggestions from N&S, Splicers, or magic spells, they don't fit the theme I was working with.


the splicers skill basically amounts to "you're really good at hitting vulnerable spots on a target". how does that not fit? 0.o
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by eliakon »

Shark_Force wrote:
Mack wrote:And while I appreciate the suggestions from N&S, Splicers, or magic spells, they don't fit the theme I was working with.


the splicers skill basically amounts to "you're really good at hitting vulnerable spots on a target". how does that not fit? 0.o

I believe because the theme he is going for is stuff that is available in North America.
Thus while the skills and optional rules in the other books and the Rifter are nice... they are either 1) highly optional or 2) not canonically part of Rifts North America.

As such neither of them really fit the goal he seems to be working toward of making a book legal, plausible sniper.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Shark_Force »

*shrug* i'm not sure that toilets are canonically part of north america, that doesn't mean we should assume they don't exist there.

i am confident that there are people in north america who have developed "shooting the vulnerable locations on a target" to a fine art just like there are on whatever world splicers is set on.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

@Mack
What about giving them Super Psionic Power of Mind Bolt, spend the extra ISP for a total of +8 to strike with the Mind Bolt. If they can be considered to "train with" appropriate skills (sniper, bootcamp, etc) and some equipment (cyber eyes considered) they could theoretically push that to +12 total just from what you originally considered to give them and no WP (for Mind Bolt) or physical weapon.

Hotrod wrote:What about bows/crossbows? Could you have a higher sniping strike bonus with some magic bows/arrows?

In the long run (ie up to Level 15) the total bonus to strike for WP's in RUE (that could be used for sniping):
-WP Bow/Crossbow +8
-WP Rifle +7
-WP E-Pistol +8 (since Mack brings up using a Sniper Pistol)
-WP E-Rifle +7

I would add though that WP Targeting no longer applies to Bow/Crossbow weapons in Rifts: UE, but does in PF:2E.

If you have the character "rifted in" to act as a sniper with a bow weapon and have WP: Archery and WP: Targeting (PF2E version of both skills) could theoretically by Level 15 have a total of +9 to strike with 8 attacks and +300ft to range. Though how many "buffs" they could use to raise their "aimed strike bonus" even more I am not sure (IMHO they essentially lose the +2 Aim from RUE, and you'd need to find a quality bow, etc). A Longbowman OCC might also be superior to just someone Rifted in with the skills from PF.

I was going to suggest another "rifted" character for an easy to acquire WP from pretty much any pre-RUE (AFAIK) PB line that used the older standard modern WP rules (ie +3 strike aimed at level 1, +1 per 3 levels), but in the long run RUE's WP workout to providing a better strike bonus (RMB used the style and it works out to +5 IINM).
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Hotrod »

Mack, there's one other aspect you should probably consider, one which arguably matters more to a sniper than marksmanship. Stealth is enormously important. You also might want to consider the various ways in which a level 1 character could stay concealed before, during, and after the shot, and the various skills, equipment, and techniques one might use.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by eliakon »

Shark_Force wrote:*shrug* i'm not sure that toilets are canonically part of north america, that doesn't mean we should assume they don't exist there.

i am confident that there are people in north america who have developed "shooting the vulnerable locations on a target" to a fine art just like there are on whatever world splicers is set on.

Yep
Which is why it is easy to imagine that people will have the material from the other games or such.
That is what Rule Zero was invented for... to allow a GM to add things they think should be part of the setting.
But at this time, those skills and rules are not part of the setting and thus can only be gained by the route of going megaversal and mining all the other games for their rules and skills as well.

Thus it does not good to hold up a character as an example of what a legal sniper could achieve in Rifts Earth... if the sniper isn't actually legal. (Which seems to be the desire here)
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Hotrod wrote:Mack, there's one other aspect you should probably consider, one which arguably matters more to a sniper than marksmanship. Stealth is enormously important. You also might want to consider the various ways in which a level 1 character could stay concealed before, during, and after the shot, and the various skills, equipment, and techniques one might use.


Well, Bob the Paratrooper can also take the "Stealth" advanced training from HoH. They have the skill slots to spend to get it AND the "Marksmanship" AT's.

Then as I recall there are a couple of ghillie suits from the Merc Ops books to help out with being sneaky.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Hotrod »

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Hotrod wrote:Mack, there's one other aspect you should probably consider, one which arguably matters more to a sniper than marksmanship. Stealth is enormously important. You also might want to consider the various ways in which a level 1 character could stay concealed before, during, and after the shot, and the various skills, equipment, and techniques one might use.


Well, Bob the Paratrooper can also take the "Stealth" advanced training from HoH. They have the skill slots to spend to get it AND the "Marksmanship" AT's.

Then as I recall there are a couple of ghillie suits from the Merc Ops books to help out with being sneaky.


There are also stealth body and power armors and the camouflage skill, but even that doesn't quite seem like enough. Tracking (more for the counter-tracking skill than for the tracking) is very important. A well-planned shot might also include a diversion (remotely activated), which could involve some kind of trap construction. For high-tech sniping, advanced optics could be particularly helpful, and they can involve skill use. Land navigation is critical for snipers, who generally approach targets on foot, and surveillance and intelligence is important, too, as many armies use snipers as scouts.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Hotrod wrote:
Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Hotrod wrote:Mack, there's one other aspect you should probably consider, one which arguably matters more to a sniper than marksmanship. Stealth is enormously important. You also might want to consider the various ways in which a level 1 character could stay concealed before, during, and after the shot, and the various skills, equipment, and techniques one might use.


Well, Bob the Paratrooper can also take the "Stealth" advanced training from HoH. They have the skill slots to spend to get it AND the "Marksmanship" AT's.

Then as I recall there are a couple of ghillie suits from the Merc Ops books to help out with being sneaky.


There are also stealth body and power armors and the camouflage skill, but even that doesn't quite seem like enough. Tracking (more for the counter-tracking skill than for the tracking) is very important. A well-planned shot might also include a diversion (remotely activated), which could involve some kind of trap construction. For high-tech sniping, advanced optics could be particularly helpful, and they can involve skill use. Land navigation is critical for snipers, who generally approach targets on foot, and surveillance and intelligence is important, too, as many armies use snipers as scouts.



Absolutely. I believe the only skill the Paratrooper can't get is the Tracking skill through the OCC Related Skills selection.

I believe the "Stalking" AT includes it though? That might make for a more interesting "urban sniper" build.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

If I recall either stormspire or Anzo makes a TW light target weapon mod, grants +1 to strike on ranged attackes.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Blue_Lion wrote:If I recall either stormspire or Anzo makes a TW light target weapon mod, grants +1 to strike on ranged attackes.


Arzno also has the TW Tactical Team Targeting System. Nice little system for snipers
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by sanka »

The paratrooper with a Wilk's 587 is mu go to for a sniper. There is a better ranged rifle in a Rifter, JA-?? in the Janisar bit. Dont know the aimed bonus by hart.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by dreicunan »

It doesn't kick in at level 1, but take HtH Assassin and you eventually get +3 to strike with guns.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by dragonfett »

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Hotrod wrote:
Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Hotrod wrote:Mack, there's one other aspect you should probably consider, one which arguably matters more to a sniper than marksmanship. Stealth is enormously important. You also might want to consider the various ways in which a level 1 character could stay concealed before, during, and after the shot, and the various skills, equipment, and techniques one might use.


Well, Bob the Paratrooper can also take the "Stealth" advanced training from HoH. They have the skill slots to spend to get it AND the "Marksmanship" AT's.

Then as I recall there are a couple of ghillie suits from the Merc Ops books to help out with being sneaky.


There are also stealth body and power armors and the camouflage skill, but even that doesn't quite seem like enough. Tracking (more for the counter-tracking skill than for the tracking) is very important. A well-planned shot might also include a diversion (remotely activated), which could involve some kind of trap construction. For high-tech sniping, advanced optics could be particularly helpful, and they can involve skill use. Land navigation is critical for snipers, who generally approach targets on foot, and surveillance and intelligence is important, too, as many armies use snipers as scouts.



Absolutely. I believe the only skill the Paratrooper can't get is the Tracking skill through the OCC Related Skills selection.

I believe the "Stalking" AT includes it though? That might make for a more interesting "urban sniper" build.


While they may not have access to Tracking through OCC Related Skills (I don't know their skill lists, so I am basing this off of what you are saying), they do have access to Track & Trap Animals through Secondary Skills at the very least, which can be used for Tracking humanoids at half their normal percentage. While it doesn't specifically call out that includes counter-tracking, as a GM I would allow it.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by guardiandashi »

in most cases good luck at getting it, but I had a character that for a really long time used an old style shemarrian 6000 series railgun. which works pretty well as a sniper rifle.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Mlp7029 »

Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Mack »

Mlp7029 wrote:Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.


It would be a different character than I was envisioning, but that’s an amusing concept to think about. A light power armor sniper...
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Mack wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.


It would be a different character than I was envisioning, but that’s an amusing concept to think about. A light power armor sniper...


the new Northern Gun books have a few light PA that would be well suited to that.. the NG-X32 Coyote armor for example is closer to an Exoskeleton EBA in size and function but it has full PA strength and powerplant, and unlike most PA it is designed that you can easily wear regular clothing over top of it (jumpsuits, longcoats, etc) letting you pass as a regular person (though the helmet is not hidden if worn). this would let it wear a ghillie suit or the like with no real problems.
it has the MDC of a light PA or heavy body armor, a robot PS of 22 (good for some of those heavier sniper weapons, or to cart around ammo and supplies), and it comes with a dedicated "sniper" rifle of its own, the "deathmark" which is a combination laser and ion weapon.. basically a J-11 without the SDC bullet option. (i put "sniper" in quotes because the weapon is relatively short ranged and doesn't do a lot of damage.. it is a higher end infantry rifle, not one of the heavy anti-vehicle sniper weapons. so really more of a designated marksman type weapon. but good against lightly armored targets)
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by 13eowulf »

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Mack wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.


It would be a different character than I was envisioning, but that’s an amusing concept to think about. A light power armor sniper...


the new Northern Gun books have a few light PA that would be well suited to that.. the NG-X32 Coyote armor for example is closer to an Exoskeleton EBA in size and function but it has full PA strength and powerplant, and unlike most PA it is designed that you can easily wear regular clothing over top of it (jumpsuits, longcoats, etc) letting you pass as a regular person (though the helmet is not hidden if worn). this would let it wear a ghillie suit or the like with no real problems.
it has the MDC of a light PA or heavy body armor, a robot PS of 22 (good for some of those heavier sniper weapons, or to cart around ammo and supplies), and it comes with a dedicated "sniper" rifle of its own, the "deathmark" which is a combination laser and ion weapon.. basically a J-11 without the SDC bullet option. (i put "sniper" in quotes because the weapon is relatively short ranged and doesn't do a lot of damage.. it is a higher end infantry rifle, not one of the heavy anti-vehicle sniper weapons. so really more of a designated marksman type weapon. but good against lightly armored targets)


Doesnt Triax 2 have a Sniper Mecha, with stealth systems and a special long range weapon? I mean, if thinking of a PA sniper... A Mech sniper is the logical next step...
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by dreicunan »

13eowulf wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
Mack wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.


It would be a different character than I was envisioning, but that’s an amusing concept to think about. A light power armor sniper...


the new Northern Gun books have a few light PA that would be well suited to that.. the NG-X32 Coyote armor for example is closer to an Exoskeleton EBA in size and function but it has full PA strength and powerplant, and unlike most PA it is designed that you can easily wear regular clothing over top of it (jumpsuits, longcoats, etc) letting you pass as a regular person (though the helmet is not hidden if worn). this would let it wear a ghillie suit or the like with no real problems.
it has the MDC of a light PA or heavy body armor, a robot PS of 22 (good for some of those heavier sniper weapons, or to cart around ammo and supplies), and it comes with a dedicated "sniper" rifle of its own, the "deathmark" which is a combination laser and ion weapon.. basically a J-11 without the SDC bullet option. (i put "sniper" in quotes because the weapon is relatively short ranged and doesn't do a lot of damage.. it is a higher end infantry rifle, not one of the heavy anti-vehicle sniper weapons. so really more of a designated marksman type weapon. but good against lightly armored targets)


Doesnt Triax 2 have a Sniper Mecha, with stealth systems and a special long range weapon? I mean, if thinking of a PA sniper... A Mech sniper is the logical next step...

If you keep following that logic, may as well snipe from an SDF with the main canon.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by 13eowulf »

dreicunan wrote:
13eowulf wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
Mack wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.


It would be a different character than I was envisioning, but that’s an amusing concept to think about. A light power armor sniper...


the new Northern Gun books have a few light PA that would be well suited to that.. the NG-X32 Coyote armor for example is closer to an Exoskeleton EBA in size and function but it has full PA strength and powerplant, and unlike most PA it is designed that you can easily wear regular clothing over top of it (jumpsuits, longcoats, etc) letting you pass as a regular person (though the helmet is not hidden if worn). this would let it wear a ghillie suit or the like with no real problems.
it has the MDC of a light PA or heavy body armor, a robot PS of 22 (good for some of those heavier sniper weapons, or to cart around ammo and supplies), and it comes with a dedicated "sniper" rifle of its own, the "deathmark" which is a combination laser and ion weapon.. basically a J-11 without the SDC bullet option. (i put "sniper" in quotes because the weapon is relatively short ranged and doesn't do a lot of damage.. it is a higher end infantry rifle, not one of the heavy anti-vehicle sniper weapons. so really more of a designated marksman type weapon. but good against lightly armored targets)


Doesnt Triax 2 have a Sniper Mecha, with stealth systems and a special long range weapon? I mean, if thinking of a PA sniper... A Mech sniper is the logical next step...

If you keep following that logic, may as well snipe from an SDF with the main canon.

Don't be rediculous. The SDFs aren't a available to PCs, let alone purpose built for sniping, unlike the Triax X-4600 Sharpshooter, which explicitly states it was designed to function as a dedicated sniper.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Mack wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:Hand to Hand Assassin gets a bonus with Guns at higher levels.
Robot Combat Elite skills for Power Armor have a +2 with long ranged weapons so snipe from Power Armor.


It would be a different character than I was envisioning, but that’s an amusing concept to think about. A light power armor sniper...

Concept? Rifts already essentially has that character class: Glitter Boy and Glitter Girl OCCs. All they need to do is basically select the Sniper Skill (which is available to them).

Glitter Girl seems ideal for sniping (IIRC that is one of its mission sets). IINM it has a +3 strike with its BFG (+2 w/the GB-BG).

The thing to remember though is that in this case you are more or less trading the "quality rifle" from the initial configuration for a much more expensive weapon system for no real gain in terms of strike bonus easily (nothing comes to mind). RCB:E and Weapon Systems Skill bonuses IINM could push that higher, but also don't really apply to hand-held systems IINM, and then you need to find something that works with WP on top of that (I'd probably say that Targeting/Multi-Optic Eye doesn't apply to piloting, that doesn't mean implants don't exist that would work).

dreicunan wrote:If you keep following that logic, may as well snipe from an SDF with the main canon.

Reflex Cannon? Why bother when you can get a Syncro-Cannon on a much smaller platform. Same Damage, less range and in a smaller package.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
the new Northern Gun books have a few light PA that would be well suited to that.. the NG-X32 Coyote armor for example is closer to an Exoskeleton EBA in size and function but it has full PA strength and powerplant, and unlike most PA it is designed that you can easily wear regular clothing over top of it (jumpsuits, longcoats, etc) letting you pass as a regular person (though the helmet is not hidden if worn). this would let it wear a ghillie suit or the like with no real problems.

For the most part I don't see why a land based Power Armor can't use some types of clothing as is to help disguise/camouflage it. I'm not saying it could buy off the rack, but I could certainly see something like a loose fitting poncho or something for it to "wear" being possible.

Actually any PA probably could be disguised now that I think about it (if Max Sterling can pilot his VF-1 in Battloid and Guardian modes while wearing a Zentreadi giant's uniform jacket)...
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by dreicunan »

13eowulf wrote:Don't be rediculous. The SDFs aren't a available to PCs, let alone purpose built for sniping, unlike the Triax X-4600 Sharpshooter, which explicitly states it was designed to function as a dedicated sniper.

Does every moment of levity really need to be indicated?
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

dreicunan wrote:
13eowulf wrote:Don't be rediculous. The SDFs aren't a available to PCs, let alone purpose built for sniping, unlike the Triax X-4600 Sharpshooter, which explicitly states it was designed to function as a dedicated sniper.

Does every moment of levity really need to be indicated?

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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Pepsi Jedi »

Mack wrote:
eliakon wrote:The Stalking skill from Dinosaur Swamp provides a +1 on aimed shots

A good find, but it's a class ability for the Dinosaur Hunter. I'm tempted to go with that class, but it gets edged out by the Paratrooper.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:Bob might be lucky enough to get the Marksmanship Advanced Training from Heroes of Humanity.

I suspected HoH would have something like that. I've yet to read it, but it's on my list.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Bob could also be a Paratrooper OCC. (see their 'Marksmanship' ability)

A good suggestion. Paratroopers get a nice +2 strike on a Aimed/Called Shot. [I've never been a fan of the class so I failed to check it. I always felt the class would fit better into Rifts if they used e-clip powered Jet Packs instead of parachutes. But that's a different discussion.]

Adding the Paratrooper's bonus to my last go-round, that raises it to +11 Strike with a rifle (and +13 with the sniper pistol).

And while I appreciate the suggestions from N&S, Splicers, or magic spells, they don't fit the theme I was working with.


Well remember the "Paratrooper" class is really just an advanced Special Forces class, it's badly named but better represents high end special forces than the actual class that's called 'special forces'. yeah they get the skill, but if you read it, it's a better work up of a high end commando than the dated Special forces class from Mercenaries or what have you.
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
Mack wrote:So I was toying around with the idea of a sniper and what kind of bonus to strike he could accumulate. Specifically, how high of an Aimed Strike bonus he could get without resorting to far-fetched methods. This isn't intended to be a min-maxed munchkin sniper that combines unlikely bits from all over the Megaverse. Basically, a human from North America who specializes in long-range aimed shots, but nothing exotic. Just a soldier/merc who's invested his time and energy into his craft.

Here's what I've come up with thus far... The starting OCC doesn't really matter. I did look at the Gunfighter from New West who gets a special bonus to strike, but it requires an extremely rare PP score to be effective. Instead, I went with a Headhunter for the bionics.

+2 on an Aimed Shot from WP (RUE p361)
+2 on an Aimed Shot from the Sniper skill (RUE p309)
+1 from either a Targeting or Multi-Optic eye (RUE p50)
+1 from completing Boot Camp (Merc Adventures p41)
+2 from a quality rifle (such as the Wilk's 587, Merc Ops p103-4... or the old C-10 from the CS has a +3 [RUE p257])

For a total of +8 on an Aimed Shot (or +9 with the C-10). That's high enough that prior to any penalties, he'll hit with any die roll other than a Nat 1.


So what else is out there that can aid Bob the sniper with his craft?


Well if Bob is lucky enough to find someone willing to teach him Jujutsu he'll have access to the Martial Arts Techniques, and he can take One Life, One Shot, One Hit, One Kill. This technique can be used with any weapon, ancient or modern, just not a punch, kick, or similar attack. Bob just picks a spot from his target that's well concealed and start using the power. Every 15 seconds he'll gain a +1 to strike the target, plus if the total with bonuses is 20 or better Bob does a critical strike.

EDIT: Now personally I believe the intent of this ability was for hand-held weapons only, and not weapons mounted on vehicles or mecha units.However seeing as N&S also has the Gizmoteer OCC, and they could select skills that would allow them to modify vehicles for combat I can see someone arguing that vehicle-mounted weapons can be used with this power. If that's the case I will point out that the user of the power has to attack the moment they stop focusing on it, and can't take an action between that and rolling to strike.

Problem with OLOSOHOK is that you cant use it with most weapons.
No seriously. Read the book.
You can only get it via taking a full MAF.
And you can only use MAF's with weapons that you have a kata for.
So unless you can convince your GM to let you take a W.P. Rifle kata your out of luck.
And since you can not have both a MAF and a normal H2H (with out being a dedicated Martial Artist) your out of luck there too.

Believe there is a "gun kata" in N&S Mystic China in the Triad Martial art
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glitterboy2098
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Re: Sniping

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

ShadowLogan wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
the new Northern Gun books have a few light PA that would be well suited to that.. the NG-X32 Coyote armor for example is closer to an Exoskeleton EBA in size and function but it has full PA strength and powerplant, and unlike most PA it is designed that you can easily wear regular clothing over top of it (jumpsuits, longcoats, etc) letting you pass as a regular person (though the helmet is not hidden if worn). this would let it wear a ghillie suit or the like with no real problems.

For the most part I don't see why a land based Power Armor can't use some types of clothing as is to help disguise/camouflage it. I'm not saying it could buy off the rack, but I could certainly see something like a loose fitting poncho or something for it to "wear" being possible.

Actually any PA probably could be disguised now that I think about it (if Max Sterling can pilot his VF-1 in Battloid and Guardian modes while wearing a Zentreadi giant's uniform jacket)...

most PA are large and bulky. so while you could create garments to go over them, it would require custom work and would be obvious that it is a big PA.

the Coyote suit is small enough it can use "off the rack" stuff, and be able to pass itself off as a normal person visually.

the Coyote also has zero penalties to physical skills, while a regular suit, because of its size, makes it really hard to prowl and the like.
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