Crazy Strength Question

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

Crazy Starting PS

21 (first method)
12
92%
19 (second method)
0
No votes
Something else?
1
8%
 
Total votes: 13

User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6297
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by Mack »

It recently occurred to me that there's another way to calculate a Crazy's starting strength. I'm curious how other folks do it.

First you roll normal human PS (3D6 plus any bonus).
Then roll the OCC bonus of 2D4.
If that total is below 19, then round up to 19.
Then add the +2 from Gymnastics, for a starting total of 21.

--or--

First you roll normal human PS (3D6 plus any bonus).
Then roll the OCC bonus of 2D4.
Then add the +2 from Gymnastics.
If that total is below 19, then round up to 19.

The difference is when the +2 from Gymnastics is added. Over the long term, the first method yields an average of ~21.4 while the second yields an average of ~19.9... not a huge difference but enough to make me think about it.
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
User avatar
Nekira Sudacne
Monk
Posts: 15488
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Contact:

Re: Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Order of Operations decides this. The character creation rules has you roll stats first. then you pick your OCC and apply OCC templates. Then you go to the skill section, write those down.

By the time you've gotten to the Skill section, you've already applied the OCC template's modification to a minimum of 19, so you already boosted it up to 19, it'd be +2 from Gymnastics.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
User avatar
sanka
D-Bee
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by sanka »

to bad the something else voter did not elaborate…

But method 1 is right by the book..
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by eliakon »

I have used both methods in games.
In general I am more generous and allow the player to use what ever method is most advantageous. And since it does make sense to add skills after the implants that is what is done. HOWEVER it is also justifiable to claim that you get the skills in the process of conversion and that you thus add all skill bonuses before you get your implants.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6297
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Re: Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by Mack »

I agree with Nek on the order of operations, and with sanka that I wish the "other voter" would elaborate.

One reason I brought up this subject is it lessens the narrative that Juicers are more physically capable than Crazies. All Crazies get Gymnastics and its +2 PS, where Juicers don't get any PS bonuses from their OCC Skills. This raises the Crazy's minimum PS to 21, compared to the Juicer's 22. Over the long run, the Crazy will average 21.4 PS compared to the Juicer's average of 22.4 (still only a point difference despite the Juicer using D6s against the Crazy's D4s).

While it's true that the Juicer could raise his PS by using OCC Related or Secondary skills, the same hold true for the Crazy so that's a wash.


Crazy's Odds of of rolling PS
21-- 87.352%
22-- 4.499%
23-- 2.566%
24-- 1.403%
25-- 0.839%
26-- 0.641%
27-- 0.646%
28-- 0.562%
29-- 0.418%
30-- 0.287%
31-- 0.193%
32-- 0.141%
33-- 0.124%
34-- 0.111%
35-- 0.092%
36-- 0.063%
37-- 0.037%
38-- 0.017%
39-- 0.005%
40-- 0.001%

Yea... there's a few freaky Crazies out there with a PS 40 (at the odds of 1 in 124,416).
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
User avatar
lather
Champion
Posts: 2141
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:10 pm

Re: Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by lather »

I assume they voted for tacos.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Crazy Strength Question

Unread post by Axelmania »

Juicers can also presumably take Gymnastics though?

The greater dilemma is probably a character who isn't a crazy to begin with but has Gymnasitcs (already applied the PS bonus) and then they get the conversion rounding them up to the 19 minimum.

I guess that's one case where you lose a skill bonus but could gain it back if you re-learned it post-roundup?
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”