Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

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Pit Viper Netherbeast, can they also be summoned with a Circle of Summon Serpents?

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SolCannibal
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Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by SolCannibal »

I'm asking because to be honest the text in DB10: Hades is somewhat confusing on this subject. It starts saying "Pit Vipers are distant cousins to the Tri-Fangs."

But then just a few lines later, it tells us:

While not really part of the Worms of Taut "family," they can be summoned by those who know of the Worms and Pit Vipers, although that knowledge is very rare.


The denial about their counting as a worm of Taut is somewhat confusing - if they are not, why would they "distant cousins to the Tri-Fangs" in the first place - but i tend to interpret the text as meaning to say that, yes, a Circle of Summon Serpents, that is uniquely suited to summon the worms, may also be used to call Pit Vipers, by those familiar with them (not many, as the creature is somewhat obscure outside of Hades) and the Worms and this particular way of summoning them.

But i would like to hear other people's opinions, exactly because i'm all too aware of how one's milleage may vary in that kind of thing.

PS: As an aside, do you think the Circle of Summon Serpents or some particular tweak or twist on it might be used to summon serpentine D-Bees, like the Naga from Pantheons of the Megaverse, the Pythonans from Splynn Dimensional Market, Vernulians from D-bees of North America and others?
Shark_Force
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Re: Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by Shark_Force »

not familiar with the circle of summon serpents (i presume it is one of the diabolist abilities from palladium fantasy), but in a rifts context i would say it implies that you can summon them using a "summon worm of taut" spell in spite of the fact that they are not strictly speaking a worm of taut, because they are distantly related.
Curbludgeon
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Re: Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

Australopithecus was a distant cousin to the Homo group, but they're all humans, and presumably a Summoner who knew of their current existence somewhere could summon one with a Summon Pawn circle. The Summon Serpents circle allows for ordinary snakes, or snake and worm-like creatures of magic, including the Worms of Taut. I'm not sure how this can be found to be ambiguous. A situation that's potentially ambiguous is whether or not a circle of Summon Gargoyles & Sub-demons (which can be used to summon a Worm of Taut, whom I don't think is ever called a sub-demon) can be used to summon a Netherbeast.

Since the Summon Serpents circle's description says "This magic does not work on sentient reptilian or snake-like beings" I'd say serpentine d-bees are out. Of course, it specifically allows Kukulcan, so whatever.
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SolCannibal
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Re: Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Curbludgeon wrote:Australopithecus was a distant cousin to the Homo group, but they're all humans, and presumably a Summoner who knew of their current existence somewhere could summon one with a Summon Pawn circle. The Summon Serpents circle allows for ordinary snakes, or snake and worm-like creatures of magic, including the Worms of Taut. I'm not sure how this can be found to be ambiguous. A situation that's potentially ambiguous is whether or not a circle of Summon Gargoyles & Sub-demons (which can be used to summon a Worm of Taut, whom I don't think is ever called a sub-demon) can be used to summon a Netherbeast.


The ambiguity - though weirdly worded section might be more precise - was the bit about the Pit Viper not being a part of the Worms of Taut "family" when it first describes it as a distant cousin of the Tri-Fang and then seems to imply, but doesn't quite state, that it might be summoned through the same methods (like the Summon Serpents circle) if one is familiar with them. But yeah, i guess my take of it is pretty much the same as yours.

Curbludgeon wrote:Since the Summon Serpents circle's description says "This magic does not work on sentient reptilian or snake-like beings" I'd say serpentine d-bees are out. Of course, it specifically allows Kukulcan, so whatever.


Yes, those little bits of random contradiction can be a mess - to make it worse the Kukulcan is pretty much the least serpentine, damn, the least reptilian, of all dragons, it looks closer to gryphons in overall appearance.
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Re: Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

Pg 106: "Worms of Taut can be summoned with select magic and magic circles. To summon them in this fashion, a poisonous snake must be sacrificed and the name of the specific "type" of demon worm written in its blood. The Worms of Taut can also be summoned with a Circle of Summon Serpents..." (emphasis mine)

The Summon Serpents Circle and ritual Summon Lesser Being would by their description both clearly work. I'd take the above to mean that the Necromancy spell Summon Worms of Taut can be used to summon pit viper netherbeasts as well. Are there any other methods available?
Shark_Force
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Re: Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Curbludgeon wrote:Pg 106: "Worms of Taut can be summoned with select magic and magic circles. To summon them in this fashion, a poisonous snake must be sacrificed and the name of the specific "type" of demon worm written in its blood. The Worms of Taut can also be summoned with a Circle of Summon Serpents..." (emphasis mine)

The Summon Serpents Circle and ritual Summon Lesser Being would by their description both clearly work. I'd take the above to mean that the Necromancy spell Summon Worms of Taut can be used to summon pit viper netherbeasts as well. Are there any other methods available?


well, the pit viper is probably some sort of supernatural being (either lesser or greater) and given it comes from hades, it probably qualifies for a shifter's OCC ability. though again, that only works if the shifter even knows about them, even if that isn't a general requirement, because it is a specific requirement for this creature.
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Axelmania
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Re: Pit Viper Netherbeast, Worms of Taut & summoning trivia

Unread post by Axelmania »

They're not part of the NUCLEAR family.
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