Big Bore Confusion

[RockJock]

Did Black Market muddy the waters on Big Bore guns to anybody else?

So you have two types of Big Bore rounds, one is "pistol" and does 1d6, one is "shotgun" that does 2d4. They both have the knockdown ability, with the shotgun round having a more powerful knockdown, which all makes sense, and is pretty simple.

The problems come with the Black Market book. You now have a gun that fires pistol rounds and does no knockdown, and a restated gun that fires pistol rounds that now do 2d6 damage, plus several others that do 2d6 for a pistol round. Plus you now have mechanically complicated(assault rifles and Squad Automatic Weapons) weapons that can fire BB shotgun shells, as well as SDC shotgun rounds, but a revolver that can handle the same BB shotgun shell can't fire a SDC shotgun round because the SDC shell can apparently jam the gun.

I know there is an argument that the better damage, and in some cases different knockdown is from longer barrels and/or some of the weapons also being railguns, but then why go into the extra explanation about the damage/knockdown of each round when half the guns are exceptions??

The inconsistency is driving me nuts, and I needed to get it on paper so to speak. For my games I just go with there being the two different rounds. One round does 1d6, and the other does 2d4. The 2d4 version is interchangeable with shotgun rounds.

[lather]

Just another day at Palladium. Can't tell if it's Monday or Tuesday or ....

[Proseksword]

I just skimmed through the entire section from pg137 to pg143 of RIFTS: Black Market & didn't see a single instance of a single round attack dealing damage other than 1D6 or 2D4 MD. What weapons are you referring to, specifically? It's only natural that double-barreled blasts/bursts would deal more than 1D6 or 2D4 MD.

[Blue_Lion]

The problem is there is no rules standardizing what can be created.

I do not see barrel length equating knock down. If I recall right BB knock down comes from the explosive rounds. a 13.5 inch reduction in barrel length can reduce speed of the round, but depending on the type of round the amount can very. One test indicated a 8-15% reduction in velocity.

[Snake Eyes]

I just skimmed through the entire section from pg137 to pg143 of RIFTS: Black Market & didn't see a single instance of a single round attack dealing damage other than 1D6 or 2D4 MD. What weapons are you referring to, specifically? It's only natural that double-barreled blasts/bursts would deal more than 1D6 or 2D4 MD.

He's referencing New West pg. 174.

[Proseksword]

I just skimmed through the entire section from pg137 to pg143 of RIFTS: Black Market & didn't see a single instance of a single round attack dealing damage other than 1D6 or 2D4 MD. What weapons are you referring to, specifically? It's only natural that double-barreled blasts/bursts would deal more than 1D6 or 2D4 MD.

He's referencing New West pg. 174.

"Did Black Market muddy the waters on Big Bore guns to anybody else?"

Seems to me he was referencing Black Market, not New West. Either way, I'm not seeing any discrepancy in damage, and I'd assume any lack of knock-down is simple omission.

[RockJock]

Ok, Black Market page 142, under the Bandit 5050 Papa Bear talks about the Big Bear from New West having revamped stats. According to New West the Big Bore did a 1d6 single shot and a 2d6 6 shot burst. Now there is a 2d6 3 shot burst and a 4d6 six shot burst. I read it wrong. I thought it was doubling single and burst damage, instead it just doubles the burst damage. Another thing about the Big Bear is it fires pistol rounds, but according to New West page 175 it does the same knockdown as the Mule, which fires the larger Big Bore shotgun rounds with greater knockdown.

The Big Bore Homesteader on Black Market 139 fires pistol rounds and specifically says does NO knockdown.

In the scheme of Rift inconsistencies it isn't that big a deal. What got to me is there is a whole section in Black Market talking about the BB rounds, yet the guns still have inconsistencies in knockdown, changes in damage, and randomly some can fire sdc shells and some can't.

[Mack]

Are you sure it fires pistol rounds, or a different round that also inflicts 1d6?
(I don’t have the book to check the verbiage.)

[Snake Eyes]

I just skimmed through the entire section from pg137 to pg143 of RIFTS: Black Market & didn't see a single instance of a single round attack dealing damage other than 1D6 or 2D4 MD. What weapons are you referring to, specifically? It's only natural that double-barreled blasts/bursts would deal more than 1D6 or 2D4 MD.

He's referencing New West pg. 174.

My mistake, pg. 137 of the Black Market does say that BB pistol round does 1D6 m.d., and the BB shotgun round doed 2D4 m.d.

[RockJock]

Which gun Mack?

The Mule/BB Sawed-Off from NW page 174 fires BB Shotgun shells. The Big Bear is on the next page, does 1d6 per shot, and 2d6 per 6 round burst, but the description says it does the knockdown of the Mule. The blurb on page 142 of BM under the Papa Bear says the Big Bear stats are revamped and now does 2d6 per 3 round burst, and 4d6 for a 6 round burst. I assume it does 1d6 for a single shot still, but it does not say. Either way it is either pistol rounds with knockdown of the shotgun, or a shotgun round doing the damage of a pistol.

[Mack]

I’ve always taken it that the Big Bear used it’s own round (neither the pistol nor the shotgun round).

[RockJock]

The new book gives a passage describing the rounds that says BB rounds break into two basic groups, pistol and shotgun, so they make a point of at least implying that all the guns that shoot BB rounds use one of those two types. In the case of the Big Bear it states directly that they shoot pistol rounds.

Below is the direct quote in BM about the Big Bear, and part of my confusion.

Quote:
"(See Rifts World Book 14: New West for details about this weapon. Note: Stat correction: Fires BB revolver rounds that do 2D6 M.D. per short, three round burst, and 4D6 M.D. per six round, long burst)."

For my games I'm going with two kinds of rounds, 1d6 Pistol with a standard knockdown out of any gun that fires it, and 2d4 Shotgun with the improved knockdown out of any gun that fires it, plus anything that shoots the shotgun round can fire SDC shotgun shells instead. I can make all the Big Bore weapons fit into one of those two with minimum headaches.
My brain is ok if it just ignores how they get a standard shotgun shell to fire 1,000ft without aid of a railgun system, or anything else.

[Blue_Lion]

The new book gives a passage describing the rounds that says BB rounds break into two basic groups, pistol and shotgun, so they make a point of at least implying that all the guns that shoot BB rounds use one of those two types. In the case of the Big Bear it states directly that they shoot pistol rounds.

Below is the direct quote in BM about the Big Bear, and part of my confusion.

Quote:
"(See Rifts World Book 14: New West for details about this weapon. Note: Stat correction: Fires BB revolver rounds that do 2D6 M.D. per short, three round burst, and 4D6 M.D. per six round, long burst)."

For my games I'm going with two kinds of rounds, 1d6 Pistol with a standard knockdown out of any gun that fires it, and 2d4 Shotgun with the improved knockdown out of any gun that fires it, plus anything that shoots the shotgun round can fire SDC shotgun shells instead. I can make all the Big Bore weapons fit into one of those two with minimum headaches.
My brain is ok if it just ignores how they get a standard shotgun shell to fire 1,000ft without aid of a railgun system, or anything else.

The easy fix would be to give shot gun rounds shot out of the BB the same range as if fired from a shot gun as a logical house rule. With chemically propelled rounds the fuel source is 1 of the leading determination of range.

[RockJock]

A logical jump.