Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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glitterboy2098
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Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

since this got a lot of interest over at the sovietski thread, and we don't want to derail discussion of the newest book over ideas for following up one of the oldest, i'm starting a new thread for specific discussion of africa and what kinds of think could be included in a sequel to WB4.


a selection of the comments from the other thread, to start things off.

Nightmartree wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:Part of the problem with Africa is that Gathering of Heroes should have received a separate mini-campaign/sourcebook its own in the vein of Mechanoids of Xiticix Invasion. Taking the adventure material and possibly part of the material on the Phoenix Empire and egyptians gods would have liberated considerable room for fleshing out the continent.

But then one might say the book was done the way it was because the writers didn't really have much in the way of other ideas, i guess. Who really knows.... :-?

from what i remember besides the gathering of heroes and egyptian gods......the entire continent gets summed up as basically "there are tribespeople, with witchdoctors and shamans! attacked by witches! and! and! and nothing much!" they did say some stuff about the pheonix empire but i'm pretty sure i know more about the reproductive cycle of dragons than I do this empire of evil in one of the biggest continents on earth.

We could at least fill it with a few alien kingdoms and Dbee nations alongside the indigienous humans...it was more of an adventure and intro of a pantheon than a world book


SolCannibal wrote:Too true.

In the book's half-hearted defense, Phoenix Empire does make for a decent sketch of a nation, even though its pagecount might be closer to the city-states in Juicer Uprising, Japan or South America than the Atlantis or NGR worldbooks levels one might expect with such a big place, but there's no denying it most certainly counts as a major part of Africa.

The real shame is that technically it's the only one, as in the end no other nations get any real description or even names, but i digress...

I think my point was half "if it wasn't also an adventure and intro of a pantheon the writers might have had space to make it into an actual world book" but went "well, if they really had ideas to make an actual world book out of it they probably would have done it instead of padding with an adventure, eh?" along of way.

About an Africa 2 Worldbook, i guess that all the flakk given to the "continental books" like Africa and South America through the years might have made writers a little leery of making books of so broad a reach, choosing instead to make the worldbooks more localized but also focused in its detailing. Not expecting an Africa 2 anytime soon (as it might be pretty hard to make a really satisfying one anyway) but a Worldbook for the Phoenix Empire with maybe one or two major neighbors sketched out and half a dozen minor tributaries/allies/etc sounds doable and potentially fun way to jumpstart things.


glitterboy2098 wrote:
Nightmartree wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:About an Africa 2 Worldbook, i guess that all the flakk given to the "continental books" like Africa and South America through the years might have made writers a little leery of making books of so broad a reach, choosing instead to make the worldbooks more localized but also focused in its detailing. Not expecting an Africa 2 anytime soon (as it might be pretty hard to make a really satisfying one anyway) but a Worldbook for the Phoenix Empire with maybe one or two major neighbors sketched out and half a dozen minor tributaries/allies/etc sounds doable and potentially fun way to jumpstart things.


I'd be happy to get some more details, and the information in the book was good, I just don't feel like I could point at somewhere in Africa and go "here is a good spot to do something". We don't need the entire continent worked up in one go as long as their is a plan to get us places...


sure. give us Africa 2, focused on the kingdoms of West Africa., perhaps with some regional plotlines about their fights with the Phoenix Empire, and maybe ties with groups outside of africa (heck, maybe the NGR has a bit of colonialism going on? or even better.. Columbia? or both!)

then an Africa 3 focused on East Africa, and their struggle with the Phoenix Empire.

then an Africa 4 focused on southern africa which would largely have its own self contained threats.


SolCannibal wrote:In the book's half-hearted defense, Phoenix Empire does make for a decent sketch of a nation, even though its pagecount might be closer to the city-states in Juicer Uprising, Japan or South America than the Atlantis or NGR worldbooks levels one might expect with such a big place, but there's no denying it most certainly counts as a major part of Africa.

The real shame is that technically it's the only one, as in the end no other nations get any real description or even names, but i digress...

honestly the reason the Phoenix Empire feels like half a write up is because it basically exists in a vacuum.. it has as much on it as the CS did in the RMB, but the CS came packaged with a bunch of other places that at least got a mention and a few lines each.. Lazlo and New Lazlo. Tolkeen. Fort El Dorado. Kingsdale. etc. plus the different parts of North America were given distinct plot hooks (vampire in mexico and the south west. dinosaurs i nthe southeast. the west is a frontier, etc) and we are specifically told there are villages, towns, and other communities all over.

Africa didn't really get that. just the Phoenix Empire.. and a whole continent filled with primitive people living in huts. which is not only a grave disservice to the RPG, but rather insulting to native African cultures, since many of them had complex urban civilizations while europeans were still squatting in caves trying to figure out the concept of farming.




Personally i think that Africa was majorly under used in Rifts.. while the details of some the (not so) ancient empires and kingdoms that once ruled there might not have been easy to find, there would have been plenty of contemporary post-colonial details to draw on to create distinct nations and post-cataclysm cultural groups other than making all of africa filled with mesolithic tribal types that follow mildly racist "noble savage" stereotypes.

nowadays, with far more information available thanks to both the internet making research easier, and the improvement of our knowledge of african culture, both modern and pre-colonial, i think we could do much better. the recent Black Panther film especially, which manages to treat africa with respect while showing how traditional elements could be mixed with high tech (or near magic, in the sense of the Arthur C. Clarke quote), ought to be a sign that an WB4 sequel that updates the region to usability and more respectful exploration is overdue.

and it isn't like Africa doesn't have a ton of stuff to draw on. you have all those pre-colonial cultures, the modern cultures, a whole slew of mythological elements, a lot of Cryptids not yet touched, some very interesting Dinosaurs, and other Prehistoric animals.
and as i pointed out in the other thread, you can do a lot of plot stuff with the phoenix empire as you add new nations and city-states for it to fight or ally with, and in some parts of the continent you could explore themes like colonialism with groups from outside the continent (NGR, Columbia, etc) trading and doing limited settling in local african nations, with all the power struggle stuff that brings.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

The Phoenix Empire needs something of a retcon anyway.

The population statistics in WB4 give the Phoenix Empire (JUST the Empire, not including the rest of Africa, and there are mentions of millions more in each region, just low-tech/not developed) more population (of 99.9% bad guys, no less) than ALL of North America, Europe, South America, Japan, and (probably, i'd have to look up population numbers) Russia.

With a spare 10-20 million.

No joke.

The Phoenix Empire should have rolled over Europe and Russia like a freight train decades ago, as it is presented. ('cause remember, most of their "population" are MDC/supernatural beings, or spellcasters... and they have high technology (and are the chief supplier of the Gargoyle Empire with their tech).

Africa in general just needs either a giant revamp or needs to be left entirely alone.

I'm more for the second one, really, because in this particularly SJW-dominated era, anything that smacks even remotely of stereotyping or 'misrepresentation' or anything like that would ignite a damn firestorm. It's simply not worth it. It's the same reason (if i'm recalling what Kevin told me when i asked a number of years ago at a convention correctly) that he's got no intention, EVER, of doing the Middle East. Too much BS for no real gain.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

as far as "SJW's" (which btw, is a pejorative term bordering on an insult when used in a negative fashion like you just did), you have to remember they merely are advocates of progressive philosophies like multiculturalism, feminism, and civil rights. as long as the work attempts to portray the inhabitants of Africa in a positive fashion with recognition and respect for the cultures that exist in africa (even if it includes more negative aspects pulled from real life) and their history, you are fine. do you know what would upset people though? treating all africans as primitive savages living in huts, waiting for a bunch of non-africans to show up from other other continents to 'save' them. you know, like in Sourcebook 4. so ultimately the bigger risk is not trying to write a sequel that expands the setting and adds real diversity to the continent.

as far as population goes, i think you underestimate the populations of the different regions on earth in Rifts.

one thing i'd like to see in an "africa 2" is some of the african prehistoric animals. we have dinosaurs (or something very similar to ones) running around almost every other continent, so Africa, which has more than a few rumors of such beasts IRL, probably ought to have a fair number too. and Africa has plenty of unique ones to pick from. Spinosaurus we already have stats for in dinosaur swamp, which could be reprinted, but there is also the Carcharodontosaurus (the largest land carnivore found thus far) and for smaller predators you have Abelisaurids or Afrovenator. herbivores you had Brachiosaurs, a bunch of Titanosaurs, Kentrosaurus, and the sail backed Ouranosaurus.
or you could with more recent animals like Chalicotherium, Sivatherium, Moeritherium or the Deinotherium
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

glitterboy2098 wrote:as far as "SJW's" (which btw, is a pejorative term bordering on an insult when used in a negative fashion like you just did),


I'm well aware, and did it intentionally. I'm a flaming liberal, and the SJW movement makes me ill. I have nothing but utter contempt for that entire concept.

you have to remember they merely are advocates of progressive philosophies like multiculturalism, feminism, and civil rights.


Your experiences and mine differ immensely then. Not going to turn this into a political argument, but i've never had an experience with anyone on the far left that i would call positive. And, as i said, i'm a flaming liberal. The phrase i would use for almost all of my interactions with that crowd is "unbelievably toxic".

as long as the work attempts to portray the inhabitants of Africa in a positive fashion with recognition and respect for the cultures that exist in africa (even if it includes more negative aspects pulled from real life) and their history, you are fine. do you know what would upset people though? treating all africans as primitive savages living in huts, waiting for a bunch of non-africans to show up from other other continents to 'save' them. you know, like in Sourcebook 4. so ultimately the bigger risk is not trying to write a sequel that expands the setting and adds real diversity to the continent.[/b]


... what? Because people are totally clamoring for an Africa 2, right? Big demand? And... keep in mind (though i will agree that WB4 was probably the weakest book in the entire line at the point it was published, and is in the running for the top 3 weakest Rifts books to this day..) that it wasn't "people from elsewhere come to save Africa!" - it was "people from elsewhere came to save the [b]entire planet
." (and potentially the entire Megaverse, as it is implied that if the Horsemen take Earth, they will be so powerful that they will sweep the Megaverse clean). Not that that made it all that more compelling, but it wasn't, perforce, the white-savior trope... just bad "bigger, better, badder" villain tropes.

as far as population goes, i think you underestimate the populations of the different regions on earth in Rifts.


Since ive totalled up all the populations of those continents (other than the stats in the Russia book), i think you are incorrect. I know EXACTLY what the stated populations of the different regions on Rifts Earth are. And unless Russia is hiding about 35 million people, the Phoenix Empire alone has more population than North America (40 million or so), Europe (about 22 million, all but 3-4 million of which live in the NGR), Japan (less than 15 million) and South America (about 15 million or so). Phoenix Empire has over 120 million. China confuses things, but might as well be a separate setting entirely/a dimension book, for all that it matters. I think we might even be able to add Australia in there and still be below what the PE has.

It wasn't particuarly well thought out, given the other populations nearby and Rama-Set's stated goal (take Europe). With the forces at his command, he could have taken Europe whenever he felt like.... because he'd also almost assuredly be adding the Gargoyle Empire and Brodkil Empire to his forces, at least initially. One push and he sweeps the NGR into the ocean, even at a loss ratio that is heavily in favor of the NGR.

So, for an Africa 2, i'd either retcon the crap out of the first book, or find some other story reason that the population of the PE shrank. Maybe Death took half of them with him or something.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by kaid »

Even if they just did a rifts pheonix empire and covered northern africa that would probably be pretty interesting. The existing africa book is more or less the four horsemen adventure/campaign outline with a handwave at the rest of the continent. Still I can see some of the subject matter being really touchy and I am not sure there is enough market interest to get people to really be interested in those when they could make something like rifts lazlo or rifts chi-town and make some serious bank.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by dreicunan »

Just knock two zeroes off most of the races for the Phoenix empire and the numbers start looking better.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

actually i don't think you need to. i decided to go to the books and get the hard numbers. pulled from WB3, WB5, mindwerks, Triax2.

NGR: 25.6 million
_Dusseldorf/Rhur: 8 mil
_Frankfurt: 5 mil
_Koln: 4.4 mil
_Munich: 4.4
_Berlin: 3.1
_Dbee's about 700,000 (WB5, probably higher by triax2)
France: ?
England: less than 1 million.
_New Camelot 22,000
_Bath 7,400
_Berwynmoore 11,976
_margate island 5,900
_goblin kingdom 4,500
_Balfarg 2000
_other kingdoms: "handful", no bigger than 20,000 each
_Ireland: 2.92 million (mostly faeries)
Poland:
_Poznan 5.6 mil
_Wroclaw 100,000
_Tarnow 6 mil
Romanaia/Hungary: none specified
Greece: none specified
italy: none specified
Spain: none specified
Gargoyle Empire: not specified, but implied to be very large in both WB5 and triax2 (and able to grow rapidly)
_Freiburg 304,800 (non-gargoyle)
_"western germany front"/Luxemburg 500,000 (and indicated to be a smallish effort in mindwerks)
Brodkil Empire: none specified, but indicated to be very large
_Tree of darkness: 4,800

ignoring all the ones that have no hard data given (those with nothing given like france, or vague details like the 'handful' of additional english kingdoms), all together this adds up to 41.2 million. given the huge areas with no information on them, and the implied sizes of the two main monster kingdoms, as well as nomadic groups like the gypsies, Simvan, and the like, or groups that don't get counted within the human dominated regions (like Faeries) twice to three times this number is probable.


and lets face it. while the Phoenix empire might be mostly monsters, they are not all at the direct beck and call of Rama-set. most will be 'civilians', not part of the Phoenix empire military, and just trying to do business and live their lives.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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"Come on all of you! We're -monsters-!!! Let's go out and kill something! Starting with the stiffest, most powerful human empire in the area! It will be a blast! A cakewalk! We got numbers! Even if we take massive casualties, we still come out ahead!"
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Mack »

Please keep this to a Rifts discussion, and leave out any real-world comments.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

There are a bunch of ways one may go when it comes to the continent.

Exploring ancient cultures may be nice but can also fall into "stereotype-ville" sort of trap, one thing occasionally brought up against Rifts: England for example. Also, there's the fact Rifts Earth is a post-apocalyptic kitchen sink kind of scenario with about 2-3 centuries between the end of the "Golden Age of Man" near the close of the 21th century and the setting's present, plenty of room for new cultures, nations and societies to form, migrate, rise and/or fall.

So overall i would say that mix-&-match, taking a bit from history & myth, some stuff from an "upgraded future" partly lost or rebuilt since the coming of the Rifts, along with some brand new strangeness & wonders brought by the Rifts, the return of magic and coming of beings from countless worlds & dimensions, can make for a most colorful and "balanced" treatment of the whole.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by taalismn »

IMO, the Coming of the Rifts and the reactivation of high-energy magic messed it up for technological progress in those areas where the infrastructure couldn't support it. The Golden Age may have seen various nations that already had high tech industrial infrastructure benefit enormously, but nowhere on the scale of those nations where the megadamage revolution began. Relatively speaking, even holding resources that the rest of the world wanted, Africa still got the short end of the stick, economically, especially if the world economies put pressure on the African nations to set aside more territory and resources for wilderness preservation(making the African continent, in effect, a 'world zoological park').
Given that, when magic returns, the natives find it easier to embrace traditional magicks that now WORK, whereas the high tech wonders so visible elsewhere are in short supply, so I'd expect Africa to a wizard's paradise, even more so than the Magic Zone. Heck, maybe Africa becomes a mecca for TechnoWizards, getting old tech in the surviving high-tech regions back up and running through gadget-wizardry.

Given the tech- and MDC-creep that shows up in South America, however, we can't discount that there might be some well-equipped high tech enclaves(such as South Africa), nations that tried bucking the pressure to buy cheaper foreign high-tech than develop their own, or who were getting assistance as proxies(the Russians or Chinese might have tried to smooshing their way back into Africa by offering assistance in developing high-tech), but I'm dubious on seeing African versions of Glitterboys(though I'm not adverse to seeing African Behemoth Explorers). But in general I see Africa as becoming a Land of a Thousand Magicks.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Now let me throw a place or two, just to add something actually usable/gameable.

- Bunker/shelter/underground complexes are nothing if not classic when it comes to tech groups, for good and for ill, trying to "retake/fix" the wide post-apoc world around them (Sovietski, Geofront in Rifts China, Lone Star, Archie, others i probably forgot), so i made my own. To put something of a twist on things, i decided to work with a civilian private complex instead of a military one. TauTona is pretty big on itself, add to it the fact it's neighbors with the Mponeng and Savuka mines (to the point of sharing processing facilities with Savuka), that the whole thing having turned into some sort of underground citadel even before the Rifts came and people needed to hide out is far from improbable.

- The Jackal Nation, a number of Coyle tribes from Palladium or other worlds that have "gone native", adapting to nomadic life in North Africa raiding whoever strikes their fancy and adopting the worship of the gods of Taut, specially Anubis, whom many interpret as an ancestor spirit and trickster/war god of sorts, with some persistent rumors about a child of the god being a major force behind their recent organization, a brutal demigod who might be in the path to carve these hordes into a true nation and a potentially serious competition for Pharao Rama-Set in the favor of its divine patrons.

- Bai Bureh or New Freetown, a major city-state located in the midst of what would be the pre-Rifts nation of Sierra Leone and relies in a varied army of Juicer volunteers to enhance its military and defensive capabilities. Somewhat like Kingsdale, has equivalents of all variant juicer types that do not rely on magic, psionics or atlantean tech. Their "balancing edge" so to speak is the fact they have managed to make easier to install, more portable bio-comp tech, making it possible to turn someone into your basic juicer without needing an actual doctor, clinic, complex surgical procedures and stuff to work.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

taalismn wrote:IMO, the Coming of the Rifts and the reactivation of high-energy magic messed it up for technological progress in those areas where the infrastructure couldn't support it. The Golden Age may have seen various nations that already had high tech industrial infrastructure benefit enormously, but nowhere on the scale of those nations where the megadamage revolution began. Relatively speaking, even holding resources that the rest of the world wanted, Africa still got the short end of the stick, economically, especially if the world economies put pressure on the African nations to set aside more territory and resources for wilderness preservation(making the African continent, in effect, a 'world zoological park').
Given that, when magic returns, the natives find it easier to embrace traditional magicks that now WORK, whereas the high tech wonders so visible elsewhere are in short supply, so I'd expect Africa to a wizard's paradise, even more so than the Magic Zone. Heck, maybe Africa becomes a mecca for TechnoWizards, getting old tech in the surviving high-tech regions back up and running through gadget-wizardry.


Some pretty good points there on how tech in most of the continent probably didn't reach the same highs one may see in stuff like Archie-3 or Lone Star for example. That said it's good to remember that even in the Coalition, seen as the technological powerhouse in North America, is a little behind the golden age's cutting edge in a number of areas, so there's a lot of room for one to play with between "sub-par golden age" and our own 2010s high tech.

More importantly, technology can be awesome in a number of ways that not exactly involve MDC gear and such. Where there's a skill, there might be an useful piece of hardware or software - or a dozen - to tinker with. The idea of an AngloGold Ashanti's mining facilities in TauTona and neighboring mines turning into some undercitadel of sorts for survivors of the Rifts i mentioned is just one possible example of understated techno-wonder

That said, i'm ok with not having Glitterboys everywhere, let's keep most of them crazy overpowered relics of a lost era.
Also, juicers with good light MDC armor can be far more fluid, tactical and simpler on upkeep. :wink:

taalismn wrote:Given the tech- and MDC-creep that shows up in South America, however, we can't discount that there might be some well-equipped high tech enclaves(such as South Africa), nations that tried bucking the pressure to buy cheaper foreign high-tech than develop their own, or who were getting assistance as proxies(the Russians or Chinese might have tried to smooshing their way back into Africa by offering assistance in developing high-tech), but I'm dubious on seeing African versions of Glitterboys(though I'm not adverse to seeing African Behemoth Explorers). But in general I see Africa as becoming a Land of a Thousand Magicks.


True, as the South America books show, accidental immigrants from other worlds and dimensions can seriously twist with expectations and add some serious curveball to the equation.

But yeah, magic is fun and cool to add too. Have to sketch out an idea or two in a future post.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

SolCannibal wrote:There are a bunch of ways one may go when it comes to the continent.

Exploring ancient cultures may be nice but can also fall into "stereotype-ville" sort of trap, one thing occasionally brought up against Rifts: England for example. Also, there's the fact Rifts Earth is a post-apocalyptic kitchen sink kind of scenario with about 2-3 centuries between the end of the "Golden Age of Man" near the close of the 21th century and the setting's present, plenty of room for new cultures, nations and societies to form, migrate, rise and/or fall.

So overall i would say that mix-&-match, taking a bit from history & myth, some stuff from an "upgraded future" partly lost or rebuilt since the coming of the Rifts, along with some brand new strangeness & wonders brought by the Rifts, the return of magic and coming of beings from countless worlds & dimensions, can make for a most colorful and "balanced" treatment of the whole.


welli figured you could take a half and half approach, sorta like what Black Panther did. mix in elements of the appropriate regional cultures from before the rifts (mining the pre-colonial stuff for ideas to a degree largely to help give them more character and represent bits of those past lifestyle elements being resurrected by the survivors, either to meet post-rifts needs or intentionally to give the survivors a common cultural core to inspire them) with newer stuff.

so like, maybe the Taureg people survived, and still live in much the same way. but now they also ride other things than horses, wear MDC leather armor, and wield MDC weapons of some kind, in addition to whatever pre-rifts armor and weapons they have preserved.

or some of the nations of western africa have adopted building styles and titles and such from the Songhai Empire intentionally to try and give their population the feel of a commonality with the past, even as they use more modern type materials and weapons.

taalismn wrote:IMO, the Coming of the Rifts and the reactivation of high-energy magic messed it up for technological progress in those areas where the infrastructure couldn't support it. The Golden Age may have seen various nations that already had high tech industrial infrastructure benefit enormously, but nowhere on the scale of those nations where the megadamage revolution began. Relatively speaking, even holding resources that the rest of the world wanted, Africa still got the short end of the stick, economically, especially if the world economies put pressure on the African nations to set aside more territory and resources for wilderness preservation(making the African continent, in effect, a 'world zoological park').
Given that, when magic returns, the natives find it easier to embrace traditional magicks that now WORK, whereas the high tech wonders so visible elsewhere are in short supply, so I'd expect Africa to a wizard's paradise, even more so than the Magic Zone. Heck, maybe Africa becomes a mecca for TechnoWizards, getting old tech in the surviving high-tech regions back up and running through gadget-wizardry.

Given the tech- and MDC-creep that shows up in South America, however, we can't discount that there might be some well-equipped high tech enclaves(such as South Africa), nations that tried bucking the pressure to buy cheaper foreign high-tech than develop their own, or who were getting assistance as proxies(the Russians or Chinese might have tried to smooshing their way back into Africa by offering assistance in developing high-tech), but I'm dubious on seeing African versions of Glitterboys(though I'm not adverse to seeing African Behemoth Explorers). But in general I see Africa as becoming a Land of a Thousand Magicks.


well, i agree on the most part that the native MDC tech pre-rifts would probably be primitive, if present at all. though a few nations might be able to claim some natively designed and built MDC stuff, even if they had to buy the foundations for MDC infrastructure from elsewhere. South Africa like you mentioned, or nigeria. both IRL have pretty good industry for the continent. south africa is one of the more advanced nations in the world in some fields, and makes a lot of its own military tech.

but far more likely is that you'd have pre-rifts nations selling or "longterm loaning" hardware to the african nations. while this means that most of the post-rifts native nations would probably not be technological powerhouses, and rely more on magic, psionics, and 'natural' MDC items like MDC leather armor and such, there could still be a fair amount of 'relic' gear from before the rifts.. either preserved carefully over the centuries, or found in bunkers or other such places. possession of such relic gear would likely have been what allowed some of the kingdoms to develop.. the local nobility/emperor/warlord/etc being the person who inherited/found a cache of armor, guns, and vehicles for example, giving them an edge in local power struggles.

and post-rifts you could see groups like the NGR, the splugorth, the Naruni, or the like selling new gear to some of these groups. 16th-17th century style. either officially or indirectly via 3rd party traders. which would be in high demand due ot the lack of real competition, and net you a lot of goods you could sell in europe, the americas, or atlantis.

that would give the continent a real mix of stuff.. relic pre-rifts french, american, german, and chinese gear serving alongside the latest NGR and Kittani exports..
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Nightmartree »

We could keep the extremely high numbers of monsters and beings in the phoenix empire...as a Pre-death numbers. Run it that they were either their to assist or take advantage of the 4 horsemen and that big quest...and then give us an idea of what the fallout to the surroundings was once a super big bad walked through. Numbers slashed by the millions, undead hordes still roaming, maybe some demons and undead that are SPECIFICALLY linked to the horsemen, I mean death cults are a thing, so why not cults that worship them and now that they've been defeated have spread out over Africa.

If the sea between Europe and Africa has a player or power or two that can lay a serious beatdown on people who are passing through, or there is some magical effect that stops large numbers from crossing easily that could also be a matter. Also what are some of the indigenious legends of Africa? We have witch doctors and shamans and African witches but I can't remember any BEINGS from that book that were noteworthy for being just from Africa...that's one of the biggest hunks of land on the planet, with historically rhinos and elephants and other large things as well as the savannas... maybe we could see some Mega-Fauna? and grasslands predators? maybe a high tech "African Safari" tourist dome that was filled with robotic animals and creatures as a tourist attraction. Maybe someone has found some of these domes and repurposed them as environmental places for their metal eating people and pets to "Hunt" robotic creatures in a "natural" setting. Or rebuilt the factory portion of the domes to produce MD robotics. A society where every young warrior when they come of age gets a "Hunting Partner" animal robot, a vibro spear, safari travelers gear (Low MDC), a lightweight laser and a shield...mostly rely on their robots to defend them due to a lack of MD weapons (had a lot of weapons but few MD in that portion of Africa when the rifts opened, relied on tourism for wealth).
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by gaby »

I think the Phoenix empire was way overborde,I would cut ther pop down to 65 million with 16 million being slaves.

Africa need Other powers who can tie the empire down in a cold war,the reason it das not to invade europe ,Powers can go from a High tech Alien city rifted to Africa,A Magic using Kindom of Elves,Surving Human tech City in south africa.
You can have Tribes of Humans,Mutant animals and D-bees with different Magic or tech levels.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

As there has been quite some debate on the matter of the Phoenix Empire population, i decided to do a little comparison. Summing the populations of Egypt, Chad, Lybia and Sudan given in the wikipedia (2015-17 estimates) gives us a total of 156.159.965 people.

The Phoenix Empire has about 100 million free citizens and 20,1 million slave population, so about 120 million total. With at least 60% of the free population, read, about 60 million, being MDC monsters, demons or supernatural beings.
So yeah, insanely large for a post-apocalyptic setting, no matter how you look at it, though just adjusting the proportions here and there (making the slave population much larger, lowering the percentage of MDC beings while keeping it somewhat high, etc) might be mighty helpful with scaling things if one wants to go that way.


Making more places for adventurers to go and get themselves in trouble into, that is something to certainly work on. Creating some sort of balancing powers to the Phoenix Empire might be interesting, but i believe it's not exactly essential - it's own success could be its greatest hurdle, as a large territory and population to rule, administrate and pacify can bring a whole morass of complications for a monarch to deal with. At least one distinctive historical example comes to mind and might be said, far from the only iconic one.

Specially when it has a quite undeniably insane and unfocused cuckoo of a pharaoh with weird priorities for a iron-fisted tyrant of a ruler, might be said. :wink:


Anyway, i would say that creating stuff for its own sake, though the power balance might be skewed - as it sort of is in North America when one compares the Coalition to mostly everybody else, for example - is a pretty decent way to go. Just let the imagination run wild and have fun with what comes out.

Me, i like to throw up homebrew city-states, nations, cultures and such willy-nilliy when i have the chance. Sometimes i do it with some research in the country or region of interest - i frequently play fast-&-loose or outright ignore contemporary nation & borders, not out of disrespect but simply because changes, break-ups and disappearances are a reality and should be even more so in the context of post-apocalyptic events and a gap of centuries - mixing bits of geography, folklore, fantasy & sci-fi literature of the place to flesh out varied area and plotlines.
Sometimes i just sort of play with the OCC/RCC lists in RMB or the worldbooks as random tables of sorts when i want something quick and open to expansion later. Both work pretty nicely overall and can make for some crazy fun variety. :-)
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Khanibal »

Alan Quatermaine and the Lost City of Technology.
A city of evolved animals who've been exposed to an artifact that came through a rift.
A small beleaguered colony of the insects from Mutants in Orbit (or Phase World).
A South Africa that had experimented with robot police (a la Chappie) now a nation of human and d-bee slaves to their robot overlords.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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But speaking of balancing powers, borders and such, why are the Empire's frontiers those described in the book.
Egypt, Libya, Chad, Sudan (and South Sudan), why do these particular countries define - and limit - its territory? And while the little map we get in page 132 of the Worldbook is anything but detailed, it seems to follow the borders of those contemporary countries (mostly, more on that later).

Sudan is quite simple to get. The Nile is the greatest artery and heart of Egypt, follow its path onwards from the Delta, one place bleeding into the other in one great continuum. Libya ain't quite that intuitive but still simple to understand, northern Libya being mostly sea level land of the coast, another easy to follow natural path in expansion. Chad - well, while i never really looked into it before, now that i do must admit to scratching my head a little over it, as its borders with Libya and Sudan, with a combination of mountains, plateaus and desert, are basically its most inhospitable/unviting, not exactly conductive to fluid/quick expansion.

In fact quite the opposite and quite something of a chore, requiring either a major campaign of conquest or a well-orchestated work of absorption through diplomacy. Either way, it brings the question of why did the Phoenix Empire take the effort.

Just to be clear, not saying it's not worth it or something like that, quite the opposite in fact. But as occupying Chad coming from Libya and Sudan would not be a quiet and simple process, there must have been some major reason (that being unfamiliar with the country i can't really guess - yet) for its subsuming into the Phoenix Empire to actually have happened. Incidentally, such a take also opens room for the possibility of Chad as a conquered/occupied territory with disgruntled natives (human, D-bee, supernatural/monstrous or all of those) and the potential for rebellion and conflict.

Now speaking of outside the borders, going by present maps, the areas neighboring the Empire would match the contemporary countries of Tunisia, Algeria, Niger, Nigeria, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Republic of Congo, Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia and Eritreia.

Exploring why each of those places is not a part of the Phoenix Empire might offer some ideas on places and groups to fill out at least some of this expanse of territory and taking bits and pieces already present in the Worldbook and then expanding from them would make for good fun i guess.

In Ethiophia's case my quick and easy guess would be that it relates to Lalibela, that has major permanent rifts to both Wormwood and the Evil Millenium Tree. Incidentally, DB1 mentions that this particular portal is the oldest between that particular world and Earth, being a door between them since about 6.000 BC! It has been in the Unholy's forces control for the last 1000 years. In fact the city's quick stats on page 156 of Wormwood imply it's the 4th largest city of the Forces of Darkness of that world, behind only Charun, Demroggan and Atala in population!
Quite impressive for a place not governed by one of the Host (as one would be unable to cross from Wormwood into Rifts Earth). Even more curiously, it apparently has a population of Sunaj assassins, even though the city has taken some major effort to avoid contact with Atlantis and the Splugorth in Rifts Earth.

One other thing.... there's actually a piece of its component countries that is actually left out of the Phoenix Empire if one compares maps.
The Sinai Peninsula - what could there be in the region that keeps it outside of Rama-Set's forces control?
It seemed as a quite noteworthy absence to me, so i felt like bringing it up.

PS: A little something potentially of great interest for those who might want to further flesh out the Phoenix Empire and its places of power/centers. And to be clear, the list also include the nubian dinasties pyramids in Sudan. Thought people might like to know.
Last edited by SolCannibal on Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

i wouldn't peg the survival of Ethiopia entirely on a Rift (and i'll need to dig DB1 out again to see what it says), since Ethiopia has a long history of being hard to conquer. be it in ancient, Medieval, or early and not so early modern times
and currently they are becoming a power house economy with a lot of technology infrastructure growth, so they might well be an MDC using power by the golden age (what i consider a "2nd tier" MDC power.. reliant on one of the superpowers for most of their stuff, but able to maintain MDC stuff on their own, not just use what they were given. like the south american nations that started the whole cataclysm were)
so there could well be a minor tech nation there.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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I like the mines as nexuses of new societies. Yah, high-tech doesn't necessarily have to be MDC, and Africa could have been a major showcase of sustainable GREEN technologies, which served as the basis of post-Rifts developments, so there may be surprisingly busy trade in advanced medicines, survival gear, and small-scale power generation.
Having for instance a nomadic high-tech company that travels about, carrying with its caravans the means to manufacture onsite various goods might be a good idea for an itinerant society of African Operators. They show up at a site, barter for resources, tool up to produce a particular product with what's in abundance at the place, produce a surplus which is divided amongst the caravansers to sell elsewhere, and the locals to sell locally when the operators have moved on to the next location, where a different product is produced. Sort of an industrial traveling show.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

taalismn wrote:I like the mines as nexuses of new societies. Yah, high-tech doesn't necessarily have to be MDC, and Africa could have been a major showcase of sustainable GREEN technologies, which served as the basis of post-Rifts developments, so there may be surprisingly busy trade in advanced medicines, survival gear, and small-scale power generation.
Having for instance a nomadic high-tech company that travels about, carrying with its caravans the means to manufacture onsite various goods might be a good idea for an itinerant society of African Operators. They show up at a site, barter for resources, tool up to produce a particular product with what's in abundance at the place, produce a surplus which is divided amongst the caravansers to sell elsewhere, and the locals to sell locally when the operators have moved on to the next location, where a different product is produced. Sort of an industrial traveling show.


heck, maybe they got used as testing grounds for genetically engineered plants and animals? due to the lower governmental regulations in the poorer nations? post rifts you might have stuff like ATB's gasoline vine*, or goats that produce MDC spidersilk in their milk, or whatever, and after the cataclysm they've gone wild and spread all over, giving the native people's some additional options.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

glitterboy2098 wrote:i wouldn't peg the survival of Ethiopia entirely on a Rift (and i'll need to dig DB1 out again to see what it says), since Ethiopia has a long history of being hard to conquer.


Not wanting to disparage Ethiopia at all, just working from what the books gives us and from WB4's side it's basically some spare words to tell us that while reasonably nice for potential human or D-Bee habitation, it's a virtual wilderness mostly dominated by dragons, sphinxes, manticores, chimeras, werepanthers, loogaroos, gryphons, a few Adarok and other weird critters. That, Lalibela and the river Omo is what the book offer us.

DB1 by contrast offers us some pretty evocative bits of info in a subdued, almost stealthy, manner.
And in fact, putting some of these together with one or two things found in WB4 makes for a very different and interesting whole.
Things such as:

- In Lalibela is connected the oldest and most infamous/active of the four permanent portals between the world of Wormwood and Rifts Earth, being in use since 6.000 BC, read, more than 8 millenia ago and long before the churches ever came to be.

- The portal to Wormwood is just one of 3 (or 5) portals known to supposedly exist in the underground tunnels connecting the rock churches. The one to the Tree of Darkness probably counts as another, but that leaves (at least) 1 to 3 permanent portals "known" by local medicine men and mystics to exist in Lalibela undefined.

- The Unholy's forces have controlled this portal for the last 1000 years, what is about the same time the Host's takeover of the planet started, what would could imply their base in the Wormwood side was one of their first conquests, if not the place the Unholy and his minions were first called into the living planet, what means that remnants/treasures of Wormwood's lost past since the forces of Darkness' coming might still be found hidden on either side of that particular gate.

- Rama-Set's backstory speaks of "coming to Rifts Earth 8000 years ago (as of 103 P.A.) and walking on the shores of Atlantis and Europe before settling in China with many Chiang-Ku". Put together, those bits mean that the "Lalibela portal" has been in use since before the fall of Atlantis and it might be possible the true Atlanteans were familiar with the masters of the Living Planet of that era and vice-versa.

- In fact the presence of Sunaj assassins in the city, when every other part of DB1 makes a point of the fact that the Host has no contact with Earth powers, specially not the Splugorth (whom they see as a threat) and all their atlantean gear comes from outright theft/contraband, seems to pretty much confirm this true atlantean connection.

Add to that a city of about 1,3 million monsters, another million human slaves and 150.000 D-bee slaves among other things and you have a quite thriving and messy place to play with.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by taalismn »

glitterboy2098 wrote:[q

heck, maybe they got used as testing grounds for genetically engineered plants and animals? due to the lower governmental regulations in the poorer nations? post rifts you might have stuff like ATB's gasoline vine*, or goats that produce MDC spidersilk in their milk, or whatever, and after the cataclysm they've gone wild and spread all over, giving the native people's some additional options.



And who's to say the Shaper Scandal and its fallout was limited to South America and Tritonia? Some of ShaperCorps' talent may have fled to hide in Africa's biomass, or may have been sentenced to do community service on products like producing counters to river blindness or breeding insects that can't serve as vectors for various endemic diseases.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

taalismn wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:[q

heck, maybe they got used as testing grounds for genetically engineered plants and animals? due to the lower governmental regulations in the poorer nations? post rifts you might have stuff like ATB's gasoline vine*, or goats that produce MDC spidersilk in their milk, or whatever, and after the cataclysm they've gone wild and spread all over, giving the native people's some additional options.



And who's to say the Shaper Scandal and its fallout was limited to South America and Tritonia? Some of ShaperCorps' talent may have fled to hide in Africa's biomass, or may have been sentenced to do community service on products like producing counters to river blindness or breeding insects that can't serve as vectors for various endemic diseases.


Shaper Scandal? Not remembering that one right now, what is kind of a shame with a name like that.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

given it says that the city uses the rift to raid earth, i doubt it would be a block to the Phoenix empire (especially with the Sunaj there and the kittani gear), but might be a thorn in the side of whatever local nations(s) are in ethiopia.

SolCannibal wrote:
taalismn wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:[q

heck, maybe they got used as testing grounds for genetically engineered plants and animals? due to the lower governmental regulations in the poorer nations? post rifts you might have stuff like ATB's gasoline vine*, or goats that produce MDC spidersilk in their milk, or whatever, and after the cataclysm they've gone wild and spread all over, giving the native people's some additional options.



And who's to say the Shaper Scandal and its fallout was limited to South America and Tritonia? Some of ShaperCorps' talent may have fled to hide in Africa's biomass, or may have been sentenced to do community service on products like producing counters to river blindness or breeding insects that can't serve as vectors for various endemic diseases.


Shaper Scandal? Not remembering that one right now, what is kind of a shame with a name like that.

they created the Amphibs, then found themselves recruited out of jail by one of the pre-rifts SA nations to create mutant animals (the test subjects of said project would go on to create Omagua and The Achilles Republic.)

i doubt that they had facilities in africa after the Amphib scandal, or would run them during a secret military program.. but perhaps before they did the amphibs they had done a bunch of genesplicing of non-sentient stuff, and used africa as a testing ground.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by taalismn »

SolCannibal wrote:[

Shaper Scandal? Not remembering that one right now, what is kind of a shame with a name like that.


It's mentioned in both Rifts South America and Rifts Underseas. Basically, a genetic engineering research firm a lot less scrupulous and profit-hungry than the US Government's Lone Star project performed experiments on people, without informing them of what was really going on. Most were horribly mutated and many died, and word got out, creating the Scandal of the name. Tritonia, then being set up as a testbed for space colony technologies, was expanded as a rehabilitation colony for those mutants who couldn't be readily re-integrated into society.
Meanwhile, though, many of ShaperCorps' scientists and equipment was quietly shuffled off to work on secret government projects using animals as test subjects, rather than humans. However, the test subjects escaped(with human help) just before the Coming of the Rifts. Those altered animals would found the Achilles Republic.

Edit: Ninja'ed by Glitterboy! How does something that big move so damn fast?!
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Khanibal »

The name everyone is probably remembering is Project Achilles.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Thanks a bunch, must admit that to me stuff from the South America books is kind of a big blur most of the time. Really need to re-read them one of those days.

Unrelated question: what do you think could make a good alternative/substitute for the Tautons in that Phoenix Empire's population breakdown? Those 10 million break out very badly with the previous "dying race" conceit of their RCC write-up about there being about 2,2 million in the whole Megaverse and would like to hear some suggestions.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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Question - how people feel about updates, tweaks or whole rewrites of the OCCs and RCCs in WB4?

Have rewatched Kirikou and discovered there were two other spin-off movies, what has gotten me thinking of doing a revamp "African Witch" (probably changing that name too), to give it a west african folkore spin while tying it more closely with other witch OCCs of the game, possibly using something like Sea Witch's relation to the Maelstrom-Maker (both from Coalition Navy) as basis for more limited but more personal and involved supernatural patrons - possibly with some effigy/fetich/idol serving as gateway/anchor of sorts, loads of entity-possessed puppets to serve as grunts and distract from which statue is the patron, among other things.

On that vein, are there elements you like or think might be worth using in updated forms in the Medicine Man, Rain Maker, Tribal Priest and other such OCCs? Necromancers i'm not worried about because they have gotten attention aplenty in other books.

Weird little thought. If the Agogwe is really some sort of ancient hominid - and consequently, related to both humans and ogres - how would their bodies interact with atlantean tatoos? Thinking of what some High Lord might do if he captured one or more of them...
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by AlooWalking »

SolCannibal wrote:Making more places for adventurers to go and get themselves in trouble into, that is something to certainly work on.


This would actually be my solution to the need for better coverage of Africa (we can all agree the time is ripe for a better Rifts Africa, right?). Rather than wait for a WB, I propose a series of shorter pieces in The Rifter to present various cities across the continent. Each could be a city profile similar to those given in Vampire Kingdoms and the South America books. There would be a bit of history, some sites to check out, a NPC or two, some plot hooks involving local politics or tensions with a neighbor. Then some solid additive rules: a new OCC - some magical like the "Leopard Witch" of Zanzibar and some tech like the "Robot Cop" proposed in this thread - a new NPC monster - some unique equipment or armor - a set of useful plants (gene-engineered, why not?) - new biomancy spells. If the series proves popular it could justify the material being collected and expanded into a WB.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

the issue there is the same one that has plagued every rifts article. lack of coordination leading to inevitable contradiction and internal imbalance within the setting.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by The Oh So Amazing Nate »

I like the idea's you all are proposing. They led me to a few thoughts of my own and some I've borrowed from posters above (Sorry for not giving you credit. I just don't feel like scrolling up and citing my sources!).

1. What's left of Northern Africa, that hasn't already been done, should be in a Mediterranean World Book

2. NW Africa (in my mind is only Morocco) and (still despite the centuries of development) looks like a scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. I see it kind of like (my mind imagines) Rifts Japan. A mish mash of old and new coming together in a surprisingly smooth blend. Spies, Informants, Assassins, narrow streets filled with peril, and bustling, crowded, noisy bazaars where you can find literally anything for the right price. (It's Casablanca meets Cyberpunk meets The Bazaar of the Bizzare trope)

3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later on

4. "Here be monsters!" Central Africa from the Atlantic to the Pacific is overrun by explosion of Mega-Flora (both Supernatural and Mundane varieties) brought about by the cataclysm and coming of the Rifts. All manner (anything you can imagine) of plants grow and thrive. Someone above mentioned Mega Fauna (I think it was Glitterboy2098). Central Africa is where I would expect to find them. Dinosaurs (a term I use to mean all prehistoric reptiles), Cenozoic era mammals and birds, and DBee's of your liking.

5. Southern Africa (All points south of Dem Rep. of Congo and Tanzania)
*Someone above mentioned SA being able to technologically stand on it's own feet. Let's go with that.
*A robotic police force was also mentioned. Rather than have them be overlords, I propose they be transferred inteligences. Africa's answer to Juicers or M.O.M implants.

-- In the country of South Africa Johannesburg and Pretoria are economic and technological powerhouses and bastions of safety for humanity and peaceful Dbee races. During the Golden Age they grew and expanded into one megacity. The disparity between the haves and have nots borders on being an abomination. This has led to the formation of tribal groups that lead raids and assaults on the mega-city hoping to either find refuge among the dregs or steal enough to survive life on the outside. The most successful and organized of these groups are the Nation of the KwaZulu Natal. Unfortunately for the the NKZN, they are beset on both sides

6. The waters off the coast of South Africa have been notorious for shark attacks since mankind first dipped its toes into the sea. Since the cataclysm the danger has increased exponentially. Rising sea levels and the arrival of an amphibious race of Shark-men have made coastal cities a literal death trap for anyone foolhardy enough to venture there without the ability to outfight or outrun these vicious monsters.

7. You want African cryptids? Oh there's African cryptids aplenty

8. All I know about Eastern Africa is that Madagascar has Lemurs and Somalia has Pirates.

9. I have an inkling of an idea for Anthropomorphic Animals trying to revive worship of the Egyptian pantheon and resurrecting and restoring the cities of the Ancient Kingdom



**The more I think about this the more it seems like my ideas (and the ones I borrowed) would fit better as an ATB book
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:I like the idea's you all are proposing. They led me to a few thoughts of my own and some I've borrowed from posters above (Sorry for not giving you credit. I just don't feel like scrolling up and citing my sources!).

1. What's left of Northern Africa, that hasn't already been done, should be in a Mediterranean World Book

2. NW Africa (in my mind is only Morocco) and (still despite the centuries of development) looks like a scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. I see it kind of like (my mind imagines) Rifts Japan. A mish mash of old and new coming together in a surprisingly smooth blend. Spies, Informants, Assassins, narrow streets filled with peril, and bustling, crowded, noisy bazaars where you can find literally anything for the right price. (It's Casablanca meets Cyberpunk meets The Bazaar of the Bizzare trope)

whats left of NW africa is Morrocco, Algeria, Western Sahara, and Tunisia. with arguably the northern parts of Mauritania, Mali and Niger.
Egypt, Libya, Sudan, and part of Chad is the Phoenix Empire, as of WB4.

i agree that perhaps North Africa is best left to a Mediterranean book, though if it can be done as its own thing (perhaps with more info on the Phoenix Empire as well, including how said empire functions beyond "they have a Pharaoh and lots of monsters". i'd suggest looking at ancient egypt for a framework, that seems to be the style Rama-set adopted.)

as far as morocco. that isn't a bad idea. fitting you used Indiana Jones as an example, since whole the film was set in egypt, it was actually filmed in Morocco and Tunisia. another film to consider is The wind and the Lion, which while playing fast and loose with actual history, was based on a real incident in Morocco. it was actually filmed in spain, but in a region heavily influenced by Moroccans in the middle ages, so the visuals look fairly close. the idea of it being a mixed old and new is good. actually in my opinion this would be a perfect place to explore colonialism themes. the NGR had to sail through Gibraltar in order to reach the southern coast of France for Operation Sea Storm, and it makes little sense for them to have ignored Morocco. so odds are they were working to turn the kingdom(s) there neutral or even allied before the operation. much like how the British, French ,and Germans all tried to smooze the Sultan of Morocco before WW1 in an effort to gain a strategic advantage. so much of the advanced technology there might come from the NGR, with Triax having a sales branch there, and the NGR 'gifting' various infrastructure elements to the local kingdom(s) to curry favor.
likewise i could see the Splugorth (via the kittani perhaps) doing much the same, since Morocco would be a good trading point, and while Splynncryth might not want to conquer the planet, he'd probably try to work to disrupt efforts for any of the earth nations from getting too powerful. that the NGR's Op:seastorm hurt and split one of Atlantis's bigger earth based customers, the gargoyle empire, would probably see him putting such efforts into higher gear.



3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later on

perhaps, though i'm not sure that Coyles, Kankoran, and Wulfen quite fit into africa.. though we know there are at least a few Wolfen in Italy. thematically though the canid races from PFRPG are much more European, especally Northern Europe. they are as much if not more Norse/germanic as they are Roman.
the idea of a nomadic culture though is not a bad one. a Dbee group to go alongside the human nomads that would be present. if it is going t be from PFRPG, instead of coyles or kankoran, maybe Eandroth? they are already nomads that thrive in deserts, and have some of the cultural elements already built in.

also In the eastern parts of North Africa, down into Ethiopia (and to an extent, north into the middle east/near asia) there are traditions of Werehyena's, which if they created a society could easily include the canine races. Werehyena's are also, in those traditions, frequently blacksmiths or craftsmen, which might be a way to add some quasi-magical weaponry to the setting. even if they don't have a nation of their own, you could have Werehyna's all over africa, since the animal species of found all over, except for the jungle parts, and they might well be able to act like mystic knuzya type characters for the region.


4. "Here be monsters!" Central Africa from the Atlantic to the Pacific is overrun by explosion of Mega-Flora (both Supernatural and Mundane varieties) brought about by the cataclysm and coming of the Rifts. All manner (anything you can imagine) of plants grow and thrive. Someone above mentioned Mega Fauna (I think it was Glitterboy2098). Central Africa is where I would expect to find them. Dinosaurs (a term I use to mean all prehistoric reptiles), Cenozoic era mammals and birds, and DBee's of your liking.

i'd say try to fit the animals to appropriate environments. so most of the Dinosaurs are going to fit best in central africa, where you have a climate closer to that of the mesozoic, and a lot of the same types of terrain (river delta's, jungles, forests, etc)
the Cenozoic mammals and birds though might fit better in the rest of africa. those that were in the Sahara before it turned desert would likely do OK in central africa, but a lot of the stuff from the Pleistocene would thrive in the Savannas, Sahel, Central Highlands ,and other drier parts, which even today aren't too much changed from how they were then (many of the same animals still survive.. cheetahs, elephants, hippos, etc)


5. Southern Africa (All points south of Dem Rep. of Congo and Tanzania)
*Someone above mentioned SA being able to technologically stand on it's own feet. Let's go with that.
*A robotic police force was also mentioned. Rather than have them be overlords, I propose they be transferred inteligences. Africa's answer to Juicers or M.O.M implants.

-- In the country of South Africa Johannesburg and Pretoria are economic and technological powerhouses and bastions of safety for humanity and peaceful Dbee races. During the Golden Age they grew and expanded into one megacity. The disparity between the haves and have nots borders on being an abomination. This has led to the formation of tribal groups that lead raids and assaults on the mega-city hoping to either find refuge among the dregs or steal enough to survive life on the outside. The most successful and organized of these groups are the Nation of the KwaZulu Natal. Unfortunately for the the NKZN, they are beset on both sides

actually, i'd say instead of Transferred intelligence, use Copied/uploaded intelligence.. Transferred preserves the 'soul' of the individual, limiting them to a single body and makign the process a much more mystical thing. An uploaded intelligence on the otherhand would be a 'perfect' copy of the mind alone. which opens up some potential for plotlines about 'by what measure is a human', as well as allowing GM's to play around with transhumanist concepts like 'branching' (making a copy of the uploaded mind so you have two or more running around at the same time, independently), and 'resleeving' (reuploading a copy of the mind from storage, with or without updates from the old individual) yes i'm stealing terminology from Eclipse Phase here, mainly to get the idea across.

one advantage of this approach is to give some extra variety to the AI type option in palladium (an uploaded intelligence would be basically halfway between a neural AI and a transferred intelligence.. with traits more like the AI), as well as allowing fun theme exploration. perhaps these uploaded individuals are the 'upper class' of the society, with the non-uploaded as varying levels of 2nd class citizens. which could let you explore some of the themes from Apartheid without using a divide over race or ethnicity. you could also include a sub-culture there that opposes the uploading concept entirely, insisting that it does not preserve the persons mind, just imitates it. (which is one of those "depends on how you want to view it" things that makes for good storytelling..)


6. The waters off the coast of South Africa have been notorious for shark attacks since mankind first dipped its toes into the sea. Since the cataclysm the danger has increased exponentially. Rising sea levels and the arrival of an amphibious race of Shark-men have made coastal cities a literal death trap for anyone foolhardy enough to venture there without the ability to outfight or outrun these vicious monsters.

could be interesting. would they be fully aquatic or live more of an amphibious lifestyle above the waves? either choice would effect the kinds of society they have, and the kinds of weapons and armor they would have access to. (more surface dwelling would allow for a more technological society, while purely aquatic would mean a more primative tech base and more reliance on magic, Psi, or exotic items)


8. All I know about Eastern Africa is that Madagascar has Lemurs and Somalia has Pirates.

sounds like an excuse to do research, to me. :) though i know not everyone finds the process of pure learning as enjoyable as i do.

Pirates probably wouldn't be ideal though.. first, the Somali pirates are nowhere near as 'romantic' as the ones from the age of sail, being basically just down on their luck people going out in rickety boats with a few guns. they have as much in common with the Pirates of old as Gangsters like Al Capone has with gangs like the Crips and the Bloods. second, piracy only works if there is a lot of trade going through a region, at the same time a region is suffering economic downturns. so if Somalia has pirates in Rifts, who is doing the trading, who is supplying the Solami's with their guns and hardware, and why hasn't the Somali's built a viable economy of their own? IRL there is a lengthy explanation, involving a lot of colonial and modern politics, but if that condition reoccurs in rifts, you'd need to address those three questions as well as covering the pirates themselves.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by taalismn »

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:I

3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later onk


Ain't mine.
I was advocating for large group Operator-led factories on wheels.

Another idea might be floating aerostat communities(aeroSTATES?)...They evolved from low environmental impact floating research/tourism platforms that also had to be armored when they began being used as flying police/ranger stations during the Poaching Wars, when the last-gasp big money wildlife parts exploiters, in cahoots with local guerilla extremists(who were financing their 'revolutions' selling illegal commodities to the less scrupulous) made a last effort to grab what they could by seriously arming the poaching gangs.
The aerostats managed to survive because they largely depend on renewable resources(solar power, hydrogen fuel cells, bio-plastics, etc,), their servicing facilities were away from the big cities/monster-attractors, and they could live off the land. A few have survived to to modern day, acting in cooperation with a few high-tech communities, by providing the land-dwellers with weather reporting, communications, early warning, and trade. The surviving aerostats have also managed to snap up some high tech weaponry and/or cooperate with magic users to protect themselves from aerial threats.
Few, if any, have tried to leave Africa to try to make it to other continents; the weather over Africa suits them just fine, and they have word from their ancestors that the last reports from the outside world tell of particularly horrifying things happening.
In fact, to many Africans, the last reports from the outside world can be seen variously as divine retribution on former exploiters, or proof positive that Africa is a relative paradise, and that's become embedded in the modern folklore passed to the current day.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by Khanibal »

taalismn wrote:
Another idea might be floating aerostat communities(aeroSTATES?)...They evolved from low environmental impact floating research/tourism platforms that also had to be armored when they began being used as flying police/ranger stations during the Poaching Wars, when the last-gasp big money wildlife parts exploiters, in cahoots with local guerilla extremists(who were financing their 'revolutions' selling illegal commodities to the less scrupulous) made a last effort to grab what they could by seriously arming the poaching gangs.
The aerostats managed to survive because they largely depend on renewable resources(solar power, hydrogen fuel cells, bio-plastics, etc,), their servicing facilities were away from the big cities/monster-attractors, and they could live off the land. A few have survived to to modern day, acting in cooperation with a few high-tech communities, by providing the land-dwellers with weather reporting, communications, early warning, and trade.


I like that. Dirigible, or hover?
Seems like it would lend itself well to the traveling show rules.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by taalismn »

Khanibal wrote:[q
I like that. Dirigible, or hover?
Seems like it would lend itself well to the traveling show rules.


Combination.
Heck, the Chinese geofront had flying -junks-. THey might have been selling that technology pre-Rifts in places like Africa.

Another irony would be if large numbers of magical animals who DID have magical properties attached to their various body parts(such as unicorns) appeared in Africa....and all the poachers are after now are food animals. (well, not really; there would be reviving interest from necromancers, alchemists, and of course the Splugorth who would raise large scale animal harvesting to an industrial standard).
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Zeppelin would be the least problematic from a "how did they survive for 300 years" standpoint.. maintain the gas bag and be careful and they'll stay up for a long time. if they are designed to be semi-self sufficient to start with, especially.

anything heavier than air is going to be a lot more maintenance intensive and less likely to survive for 300 years without major infrastructure on the ground to support them.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by The Oh So Amazing Nate »

taalismn wrote:
The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:I

3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later onk


Ain't mine.
I was advocating for large group Operator-led factories on wheels.


Oh, okay I think I sort of remember that. Is it ALSO the one where the "factories" wander around churning out genetically engineered versions of extinct species, or am I thinking of a different post?

taalismn wrote:Another idea might be floating aerostat communities(aeroSTATES?)...They evolved from low environmental impact floating research/tourism platforms that also had to be armored when they began being used as flying police/ranger stations during the Poaching Wars, when the last-gasp big money wildlife parts exploiters, in cahoots with local guerilla extremists(who were financing their 'revolutions' selling illegal commodities to the less scrupulous) made a last effort to grab what they could by seriously arming the poaching gangs.
The aerostats managed to survive because they largely depend on renewable resources(solar power, hydrogen fuel cells, bio-plastics, etc,), their servicing facilities were away from the big cities/monster-attractors, and they could live off the land. A few have survived to to modern day, acting in cooperation with a few high-tech communities, by providing the land-dwellers with weather reporting, communications, early warning, and trade. The surviving aerostats have also managed to snap up some high tech weaponry and/or cooperate with magic users to protect themselves from aerial threats.
Few, if any, have tried to leave Africa to try to make it to other continents; the weather over Africa suits them just fine, and they have word from their ancestors that the last reports from the outside world tell of particularly horrifying things happening.
In fact, to many Africans, the last reports from the outside world can be seen variously as divine retribution on former exploiters, or proof positive that Africa is a relative paradise, and that's become embedded in the modern folklore passed to the current day.


Floating communities. This brings to mind that movie Elysium. Well at least that's the picture that popped into my head when I read Floating Communities. Are they geo-locked or do they just float around in the breeze?

Adventure idea: The PC's have a time sensitive mission to deliver/retrieve (noun) from a nearby floating city. Overnight, sudden weather activity has sprung up moving the city (x units of distance) away from its previous location. A free floating city moving would be an annoyance but known to happen. A geo-locked city suffering from a broken tether (storm damage, old infrastructure, sabotage?) would be a much more serious happening. Imagine if the broken tether was something as ordinary as an anchor line that had torn its mooring loose from the ground and was dragging it along causing damage to the surface ans the city moved about at the mercy of the wind.
What was a time sensitive mission in the first place now becomes a race against the clock as the players have to make up the increased distance (x axis) as well as the distance from the surface to the city itself (y axis). Throw in your standard campaign tropes of hostile terrain, npc's, critters, etc and I think you've got a fun idea.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

Unread post by The Oh So Amazing Nate »

Glitterboy2098 it's good to hear from you. Thanks for taking the time to respond to each of my ideas. I'm surprised I was able to come up with what I did. Inspiration hits me in a way that is similar to looking at a flip book animation. It all comes really fast and fits together as a whole, but when I try to recall the individual parts I only get snippets. It is exhausting and frustrating at the same time. It's why my ATB Midwest/Indiana thread got locked for necroposting and why i never gotten farther than a map and a few scattered ideas fleshed out.
I used this Clickable Map of Africa to get the different regions. Northern and Western Africa is the brown part at the top with the West being ALL Morocco. Central Africa is all the Green in the middle. Southern Africa , like i said, was everything below Congo and Tanzania. Western Africa = Madagascar and Somalia.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:I like the idea's you all are proposing. They led me to a few thoughts of my own and some I've borrowed from posters above (Sorry for not giving you credit. I just don't feel like scrolling up and citing my sources!).

1. What's left of Northern Africa, that hasn't already been done, should be in a Mediterranean World Book

2. NW Africa (in my mind is only Morocco) and (still despite the centuries of development) looks like a scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. I see it kind of like (my mind imagines) Rifts Japan. A mish mash of old and new coming together in a surprisingly smooth blend. Spies, Informants, Assassins, narrow streets filled with peril, and bustling, crowded, noisy bazaars where you can find literally anything for the right price. (It's Casablanca meets Cyberpunk meets The Bazaar of the Bizzare trope)

whats left of NW africa is Morrocco, Algeria, Western Sahara, and Tunisia. with arguably the northern parts of Mauritania, Mali and Niger.
Egypt, Libya, Sudan, and part of Chad is the Phoenix Empire, as of WB4.

i agree that perhaps North Africa is best left to a Mediterranean book, though if it can be done as its own thing (perhaps with more info on the Phoenix Empire as well, including how said empire functions beyond "they have a Pharaoh and lots of monsters". i'd suggest looking at ancient egypt for a framework, that seems to be the style Rama-set adopted.)

as far as morocco. that isn't a bad idea. fitting you used Indiana Jones as an example, since whole the film was set in egypt, it was actually filmed in Morocco and Tunisia. another film to consider is The wind and the Lion, which while playing fast and loose with actual history, was based on a real incident in Morocco. it was actually filmed in spain, but in a region heavily influenced by Moroccans in the middle ages, so the visuals look fairly close. the idea of it being a mixed old and new is good. actually in my opinion this would be a perfect place to explore colonialism themes. the NGR had to sail through Gibraltar in order to reach the southern coast of France for Operation Sea Storm, and it makes little sense for them to have ignored Morocco. so odds are they were working to turn the kingdom(s) there neutral or even allied before the operation. much like how the British, French ,and Germans all tried to smooze the Sultan of Morocco before WW1 in an effort to gain a strategic advantage. so much of the advanced technology there might come from the NGR, with Triax having a sales branch there, and the NGR 'gifting' various infrastructure elements to the local kingdom(s) to curry favor.
likewise i could see the Splugorth (via the kittani perhaps) doing much the same, since Morocco would be a good trading point, and while Splynncryth might not want to conquer the planet, he'd probably try to work to disrupt efforts for any of the earth nations from getting too powerful. that the NGR's Op:seastorm hurt and split one of Atlantis's bigger earth based customers, the gargoyle empire, would probably see him putting such efforts into higher gear.


That's all pretty interesting. When I think of/see a crowded bazaar my brain goes "oh that's one of those places in Morocco" (Marrakech, Fes or the like)


3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later on


glitterboy2098 wrote:perhaps, though i'm not sure that Coyles, Kankoran, and Wulfen quite fit into africa.. though we know there are at least a few Wolfen in Italy. thematically though the canid races from PFRPG are much more European, especally Northern Europe. they are as much if not more Norse/germanic as they are Roman.
the idea of a nomadic culture though is not a bad one. a Dbee group to go alongside the human nomads that would be present. if it is going t be from PFRPG, instead of coyles or kankoran, maybe Eandroth? they are already nomads that thrive in deserts, and have some of the cultural elements already built in.

also In the eastern parts of North Africa, down into Ethiopia (and to an extent, north into the middle east/near asia) there are traditions of Werehyena's, which if they created a society could easily include the canine races. Werehyena's are also, in those traditions, frequently blacksmiths or craftsmen, which might be a way to add some quasi-magical weaponry to the setting. even if they don't have a nation of their own, you could have Werehyna's all over africa, since the animal species of found all over, except for the jungle parts, and they might well be able to act like mystic knuzya type characters for the region.


Sure, werehyena's work as do dholes, African hunting dogs, jackals or what have you. It doesn't have to be PFRPG species, which is why I put Canid Races. I also think Canid races would be more apt to worship a Dog Headed God (thematically speaking).

4. "Here be monsters!" Central Africa from the Atlantic to the Pacific is overrun by explosion of Mega-Flora (both Supernatural and Mundane varieties) brought about by the cataclysm and coming of the Rifts. All manner (anything you can imagine) of plants grow and thrive. Someone above mentioned Mega Fauna (I think it was Glitterboy2098). Central Africa is where I would expect to find them. Dinosaurs (a term I use to mean all prehistoric reptiles), Cenozoic era mammals and birds, and DBee's of your liking.


glitterboy2098 wrote:i'd say try to fit the animals to appropriate environments. so most of the Dinosaurs are going to fit best in central africa, where you have a climate closer to that of the mesozoic, and a lot of the same types of terrain (river delta's, jungles, forests, etc)
the Cenozoic mammals and birds though might fit better in the rest of africa. those that were in the Sahara before it turned desert would likely do OK in central africa, but a lot of the stuff from the Pleistocene would thrive in the Savannas, Sahel, Central Highlands ,and other drier parts, which even today aren't too much changed from how they were then (many of the same animals still survive.. cheetahs, elephants, hippos, etc)


I have no problem putting things where they'd most likely thrive.

5. Southern Africa (All points south of Dem Rep. of Congo and Tanzania)
*Someone above mentioned SA being able to technologically stand on it's own feet. Let's go with that.
*A robotic police force was also mentioned. Rather than have them be overlords, I propose they be transferred inteligences. Africa's answer to Juicers or M.O.M implants.

-- In the country of South Africa Johannesburg and Pretoria are economic and technological powerhouses and bastions of safety for humanity and peaceful Dbee races. During the Golden Age they grew and expanded into one megacity. The disparity between the haves and have nots borders on being an abomination. This has led to the formation of tribal groups that lead raids and assaults on the mega-city hoping to either find refuge among the dregs or steal enough to survive life on the outside. The most successful and organized of these groups are the Nation of the KwaZulu Natal. Unfortunately for the the NKZN, they are beset on both sides


glitterboy2098 wrote:actually, i'd say instead of Transferred intelligence, use Copied/uploaded intelligence.. Transferred preserves the 'soul' of the individual, limiting them to a single body and makign the process a much more mystical thing. An uploaded intelligence on the otherhand would be a 'perfect' copy of the mind alone. which opens up some potential for plotlines about 'by what measure is a human', as well as allowing GM's to play around with transhumanist concepts like 'branching' (making a copy of the uploaded mind so you have two or more running around at the same time, independently), and 'resleeving' (reuploading a copy of the mind from storage, with or without updates from the old individual) yes i'm stealing terminology from Eclipse Phase here, mainly to get the idea across.

one advantage of this approach is to give some extra variety to the AI type option in palladium (an uploaded intelligence would be basically halfway between a neural AI and a transferred intelligence.. with traits more like the AI), as well as allowing fun theme exploration. perhaps these uploaded individuals are the 'upper class' of the society, with the non-uploaded as varying levels of 2nd class citizens. which could let you explore some of the themes from Apartheid without using a divide over race or ethnicity. you could also include a sub-culture there that opposes the uploading concept entirely, insisting that it does not preserve the persons mind, just imitates it. (which is one of those "depends on how you want to view it" things that makes for good storytelling..)


You really fleshed that out, nice! The short idea is 'your consciousness now resides in a mechanical body'. YMMV depending on the GM.

6. The waters off the coast of South Africa have been notorious for shark attacks since mankind first dipped its toes into the sea. Since the cataclysm the danger has increased exponentially. Rising sea levels and the arrival of an amphibious race of Shark-men have made coastal cities a literal death trap for anyone foolhardy enough to venture there without the ability to outfight or outrun these vicious monsters.


glitterboy2098 wrote:could be interesting. would they be fully aquatic or live more of an amphibious lifestyle above the waves? either choice would effect the kinds of society they have, and the kinds of weapons and armor they would have access to. (more surface dwelling would allow for a more technological society, while purely aquatic would mean a more primative tech base and more reliance on magic, Psi, or exotic items)


I'm going to go with mostly aquatic. They're able to come up on land and operate for a short period of time but will ultimately return to the water. Reasons could be it is more comfortable, able to function better, able to breathe better, they run the risk of drying out if on land for to long, etc.
I see them as a beastial race. Worry less about them sabotaging your transport and more about them ambushing you and biting you in half. Their tech would be low by mechanical standards, but no reason it can't be high tech (biological mods like splicer tech or something I've not thought of yet) in what it can accomplish. God(s) help the NKZN people if the the Shark folk ever decide/figure out how to create tech that lets them go for extended periods on land or increase the size of there flooded territories.
I pictured the coastal cities similar to how Venice is flooded. Submerged streets and partially sunken buildings inhabited and refitted for use and habitation by beings that inhabit the water.

8. All I know about Eastern Africa is that Madagascar has Lemurs and Somalia has Pirates.

glitterboy2098 wrote:sounds like an excuse to do research, to me. :) though i know not everyone finds the process of pure learning as enjoyable as i do.


Research during inspiration crowds out the ideas that I had. If that makes sense.

glitterboy2098 wrote:Pirates probably wouldn't be ideal though.. first, the Somali pirates are nowhere near as 'romantic' as the ones from the age of sail, being basically just down on their luck people going out in rickety boats with a few guns. they have as much in common with the Pirates of old as Gangsters like Al Capone has with gangs like the Crips and the Bloods. second, piracy only works if there is a lot of trade going through a region, at the same time a region is suffering economic downturns. so if Somalia has pirates in Rifts, who is doing the trading, who is supplying the Solami's with their guns and hardware, and why hasn't the Somali's built a viable economy of their own? IRL there is a lengthy explanation, involving a lot of colonial and modern politics, but if that condition reoccurs in rifts, you'd need to address those three questions as well as covering the pirates themselves.


Not pirates and Lemurs then. Pirates and Lemurs now. I have no thoughts/ideas for what would be in Eastern Africa PA
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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taalismn wrote:
The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:I

3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later onk


Ain't mine.
I was advocating for large group Operator-led factories on wheels.


The Anubis-worshipping Canids idea was mine, the "Jackal Nation", along with some other stuff like the TauTona and neighboring mining projects in South Africa turning into a mamooth underground citadel/Vault, among other things.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
3. I really liked Taalismn's idea (at least I think it was his) of Coyle's and other Canid peoples forming a nomadic bandit society and worshiping Anubis. Which gave rise to something I'll mention later on

perhaps, though i'm not sure that Coyles, Kankoran, and Wulfen quite fit into africa.. though we know there are at least a few Wolfen in Italy. thematically though the canid races from PFRPG are much more European, especally Northern Europe. they are as much if not more Norse/germanic as they are Roman.


The Wolfen, indeed. The Kankoran and the Coyle in particular, not so much. While desert is not really their turf in Palladium, from what we are given on their attitude toward other races and tactics in CB1, i could really see them really getting into a "marauding nomads" bender and adopting the gods of Taut (that already have a significant presence in the World of Palladium, might be said) after a few decades or centuries in North Africa. And yeah, very much inspired by this. :-)

glitterboy2098 wrote:the idea of a nomadic culture though is not a bad one. a Dbee group to go alongside the human nomads that would be present. if it is going t be from PFRPG, instead of coyles or kankoran, maybe Eandroth? they are already nomads that thrive in deserts, and have some of the cultural elements already built in.


True, some other D-bee races or monsters that go well with deserts like scorpion-men and such might be good for extra color.

glitterboy2098 wrote:also In the eastern parts of North Africa, down into Ethiopia (and to an extent, north into the middle east/near asia) there are traditions of Werehyena's, which if they created a society could easily include the canine races. Werehyena's are also, in those traditions, frequently blacksmiths or craftsmen, which might be a way to add some quasi-magical weaponry to the setting. even if they don't have a nation of their own, you could have Werehyna's all over africa, since the animal species of found all over, except for the jungle parts, and they might well be able to act like mystic knuzya type characters for the region.


Yes, the Bouda, completely forgot about them, thanks for bringing it up. They might work as a interesting magical alternative to operators or TWs, with smithing and metals in place of tech and gems, for example.

Also forgot the "shapechanging through witchcraft" angle, that WB4's Witch also toys a bit with. A remake/update of that OCC is looking even more tempting now.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
8. All I know about Eastern Africa is that Madagascar has Lemurs and Somalia has Pirates.

sounds like an excuse to do research, to me. :) though i know not everyone finds the process of pure learning as enjoyable as i do.


As a historian i guess i'm very much into that too. :)

glitterboy2098 wrote:Pirates probably wouldn't be ideal though.. first, the Somali pirates are nowhere near as 'romantic' as the ones from the age of sail, being basically just down on their luck people going out in rickety boats with a few guns. they have as much in common with the Pirates of old as Gangsters like Al Capone has with gangs like the Crips and the Bloods. second, piracy only works if there is a lot of trade going through a region, at the same time a region is suffering economic downturns. so if Somalia has pirates in Rifts, who is doing the trading, who is supplying the Solami's with their guns and hardware, and why hasn't the Somali's built a viable economy of their own? IRL there is a lengthy explanation, involving a lot of colonial and modern politics, but if that condition reoccurs in rifts, you'd need to address those three questions as well as covering the pirates themselves.


Well, there's mention more than once in WB4 about a thriving trade between the Phoenix Empire and monster kingdoms in the Middle East and Arabian Peninsula, so that could make for a target, with maybe Wormwood - using them as cat's paws - as the provider. And about viable economy, being composed mostly of humans and D-bee races seem by the powers in the aforementioned route as slave labor and fodder might go a long way to explain that, i guess.

A little random bit of trivia i almost forgot - the Demonic Cannibals (not a RCC in the book, unfortunately) are mentioned as being most common in Ethiopia, Sudan, Congo and India, what could imply some contact, exchange, migration and/or trade, by either rift or more mundane methods.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:[

Oh, okay I think I sort of remember that. Is it ALSO the one where the "factories" wander around churning out genetically engineered versions of extinct species, or am I thinking of a different post?.[/i]


Somebody else, again, I'm afraid.

Then again, if you got microfactories using nanotechnology to build stuff, 'green' labs using the same tech to rebuild DNA and create clones wouldn't be too farfetched.

You might have a number of 'micro-Lone Stars' wandering the wilds of Africa doing what GeneSplicers might consider 'minor' alterations to livestock. Got a community suffering from a nutrient deficiency? The gene-rangers can whip you up goats that deliver the needed nutrients in their milk or meat.
Heck, if there was enough 'greentech' wandering around Africa, the GeneSplicers might be attracted to Africa out of bemused curiousity at what the 'amateurs' are doing. Adventurers more familiar with what the 'splicers do elsewhere might be perplexed by their behavior in Africa. What are they up to?
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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Well, it looks like no matter the brand, be it gene-splicing, clean energy specialists or some other line of study/work, it looks like the idea of "wandering technology peddlers/purveyors" in Africa is really gaining traction in the thread and that's cool.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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glitterboy2098 wrote:i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'


But in Rifts you can combine it with magic and run it on babble. :D

Now that I think of it, that might be serious.
Visit a village that contracts your group for services. Get everybody in a ritual ceremony to pool enough PPE to supercharge your technowizardry-zapped nanotech or Great Gizmo. You get extra PPE and a party at the same time.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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taalismn wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'


But in Rifts you can combine it with magic and run it on babble. :D


Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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Nightmartree wrote:[

Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such


Music-powered nanotech?
Oy....'heavy metal' in the blood and bone indeed.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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taalismn wrote:
Nightmartree wrote:[

Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such


Music-powered nanotech?
Oy....'heavy metal' in the blood and bone indeed.


Africa, now the home of the "Battle Rockers" hopped up super humans similar to the crazies or juicers but instead powered by nanites that are in turn powered by sound...

They hold rock concerts to charge up their little bots man, then they go bash them rifty bees.
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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glitterboy2098 wrote:i'd prefer to avoid nanomachine stuff beyond the existing (largely misidentified) examples already in the game. mainly because if real grey goo options get put in, it will likely get setting breaking the moment people use the hollywood idea of what nanites can do instead of stuff a little more grounded in reality. because hollywood nanites are just a code word for 'magic via techbabble'


Well, canon use of nanites that i can remember is some piece of gear that can help with treating damage and stuff to a person in the RMB.
Once made an adapted version of it that managed to make some repairs to armor and robots too, but left it at that. Any other noteworthy uses in the books one might extrapolate from?

Nightmartree wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Nightmartree wrote:[

Techno-wizard nanites powered by a sonic to magic converter!? somehow I feel star treky talking about converters and such


Music-powered nanotech?
Oy....'heavy metal' in the blood and bone indeed.


Africa, now the home of the "Battle Rockers" hopped up super humans similar to the crazies or juicers but instead powered by nanites that are in turn powered by sound...

They hold rock concerts to charge up their little bots man, then they go bash them rifty bees.


Smells like crossover to me. :P
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Re: Rifts Africa - discussion and ideas

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SolCannibal wrote:[

Smells like crossover to me. :P


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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
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And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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