Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Nether wrote:Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
.. Stuff ..
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Is there any particular reason why your being such a jerk to me? Or why you can't have a civil conversation without being derogatory or insulting?
There doesn't appear to many people posting in these forums and constantly getting insulted in every post i'm sure does not make this an 'enjoyable' place to be.
If you find having your inane and provably incorrect statements called out and proven wrong "deragatory" or "insulting" i suggest the problem is
you.
And again your making personal attacks here.
And interestingly you are snipping out the quote unquote provably incorrect statements... which is fascinating since you have yet to support your stance that they are wrong other than assert that we are wrong to disagree with you.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Do you not understand when I say that I don't have my books to check stats and I put a question mark next to it to indicate I'm not sure if that is accurate?
Because you dont have a book in front of you that you plainly had to have in front of you to list the stats of the CA-7, as it is the only book it is printed in.
You might want to check you facts before you go insulting people...
as it was Shadow Logan and myself that listed the stats.
Perhaps you might want to verify who said what before lobbing insults and claiming people are liars. Hint, this is one reason most people put who said what instead of just 'quote' so that it is clear that they are quoting the right person.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Show me where I have ever claimed to be an 'expert' on the Mag-5 / CA-7? For all I have stated is what is exactly written in the books.
-though I'm sure you were trying to be more insulting than anything.
Again, if having your blatant ignorance pointed out to you is "insulting", then the problem is you. You can correct it by not being ignorant of the topic.
And again your being rude and insulting while avoiding answering the question.
YOU are the one claiming that he said he was an expert. And you did so rudely.
When you got called out on this, you now are saying that it is his job to accept your rudeness AND to accept the words you put in his mouth. AND that only your opinion counts because any disagreement or asking for clarification is 'ignorance'
So again...why are you so hostile to actually having a discussion?
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:You apparently do not understanding the difference between flavor text and rules.
Since im actually a published RPG writer, i would say I have a far better idea of the difference between flavor text and rules. (And yes, that is an appeal to authority logical fallacy, but it's true nonetheless). You apparently have no idea of the difference between
flavor text and
descriptive text. Flavor text is something that adds apocryphal info to an item ("These are popular among CS special forces" - that's flavor text) - Descriptive text is something that describes how something works or looks, and is integral to it functioning with the rules system.
You say you are an expert...
...but you do not seem to be one.
Because as an author you should know what the word "feature" means.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: Because they are not the same even though you treat them so, nor do they have the same value.
So hey, you want to disagree on this then so be it, as there is obviously no reason to discuss this part with you.
Heck, if you can't respond to me without being so rude then just don't respond, otherwise discuss away.
You keep using that word, but you haven't even seen rude. What you've seen is just me debunking your garbage theory.
No, we have all seen rude here.
Debunking is one thing. And to be clear you haven't debunked a thing. To debunk something you need what we call "Facts"
Your statement that "This is so because I said it is" is not a fact.
Making a personal attack, calling someone ignorant, calling them a liar calling things 'garbage' and the rest? That is rude and against the TOS.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:How can you not see exactly what comes with the suit of armor? It says it right in the stat block, there is nothing to refute.
You're going to point out where i said it doesn't come WITH the armor, right? Oh, right, you cant, because i never said that. In fact, i said that is most certainly comes WITH the armor, but that is clearly not PART of the Armor. As it is explicitly called out as not being PART of the armor.
Have you READ THE BOOK?
You know page 104 where it is explicitly stated to be A FEATURE OF THE ARMOR.
Do you know what the word "feature" means?
It is not an option, not an accessory IT IS A FEATURE. As such, yes it is a part of the armor system.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: There is no interpretation here,
Hey, we agree!
Obviously you don't.... as you do not seem to want to use dictionary definitions of words here.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: it's literally listed as a part of the armor that weighs 20 lbs.
No, it isn't. SOME of its relevant statistics are given. Nothing in that line says "is built into the armor". You're assuming something because it fits your preconceived notion.
Again do you know what the word "Feature" means?
Seriously? This is getting old.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: Flavor text says it can be swapped out for a different pack,
Actually, the DESCRIPTIVE TEXT says that it "can" be attached (implying that it is normally NOT attached) to the armor, and that the attachment points can also hold an ammo drum or energy packs. It says nothing about swapping it out for a different pack.
It not only CAN be attached, but it always comes that way. That is, after all what the word "feature" means.
Also you REALLY need to watch your quotes.
Your altering quotes here and that is a Violation of the TOS
It is against the rules to attribute to a person something they did not say.
This is something that I said, not him.
So credit your quotes correctly.
Because as it is you are making it look like you do not care about honesty or accuracy at all in this.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: but none of those are included in the armors core features like the jet pack.
And? Again, how many DOZENS of items would you like me to point out that have similar text, where an (optional) item is included in the stat block but that optional item is NOT part of the thing in question?
Again this is my quote.
Credit ME not HIM.
It ISNT HARD
And you have yet to provide any of these supposed items.
I have asked, repeatedly for evidence of your claim that you can do this. And all you do is repeat they exist... PUT UP OR SHUT UP I want to SEE these things you claim have listed
features that are not part of the item.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:The jet pack's weight is probably missing, but that's not what the armor stats show. Everything listed in it's stat block is included in the weight unless it says otherwise.
.. since the PC shock troops wont let me post the Ascii Picard facepalm, youll just have to imagine that here.
Yes we agree, the Palladium editing makes all sorts of problems.
And once again
stop lying and properly credit the people who say things.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:If your assertion would then be that all of those optional parts must be standard and on the item
Show me where have I said that? You can't because I didn't, and the only 'assertion' here is you claiming I said something I did not say.
No, i'm not. I'm saying you cant have it both ways, which is what you're trying to do. Either this item, like all the others i was talking about, is actually separate, or ALL OF THOSE ITEMS must be the same was as this item, and all those optional parts are not, in fact, optional and are part of the base item, even though they clearly aren't.
Your horribly quoting here is hard to follow, but I will try
It seems that you are trying to argue that even though something is listed as feature of the armor... that it is not REALLY a feature of the armor?
I ask again... do you know what the word "Feature" means? Because your entire argument here seems predicated on a novel usage of it that is not consistant with dictionary English.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: Your making things up to support your side.
Such as?
Such as the concept that you can selectively choose which features of an item are included in the item? Is that a good start?
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote: The only thing I've said is what exactly is listed in the armor stat block which you seem to keep refuting as 'standard' part of the armor stat block. I'm quoting facts from the book, your making things up, yet I'm disillusioned.
I've made up.. what precisely? And the word i used was delusional. I.E. seeing things that are not there or imaginary.
You have made up the concept that a
feature of an armor is not a part of the armor.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:The rules trump all;
Because then breathing isn't possible. Or your heart pumping. Or gravity.
Now your just being extreme and making no sense.
No, im using your "logic", for lack of a better term, and applying it to the rules. You said if the rules dont say you can do it, you cant.
To bad your "logic" is just trolling. Because the rules clearly cover breathing, and falling, and bleeding. Nice try. How about you be less rude, and try and follow the TOS?
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:The only rules being mentioned is the armor stat block telling you what it has and does. If there were any rules about what your talking about then it would be in the rule section governing how those things work, but as they are so extreme with the exception of gravity (because you know there is other planets in Rifts, not to mention space) that they have no value here.
Saying that the jet pack weight is just missing from the stats is most likely, though that is your assumption which I happen to agree with, but and a big BUT is it is not listed in the armor stats. Therefore it is canon unless you can prove it via errata or an author quote saying specifically that, if not then your just making it up, regardless of how many 'other' examples you have because they to need the exact same proof. This doesnt mean we can't be logical and assume it is missing, but then it is a house rule. But, I've already said this multiple times now.
You could see that I meant CA-2 instead of CA-4, hence why I put in the ?? and comment I don't have access to my books to be accurate. That's all you had to say as the rest of that is moot.
Oh, the "i declare your argument moot" dodge.
Considering your entire argument is moot? I mean since arguments have to be phrased in actual words? And since you are not using English to argue it is moot? Seriously if you are not going to use words as they are defined, but as you want to use them and pick their definitions each time it comes up... that isn't talking that is... whatever it is.
Start by reading the dictionary definition of "feature"
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Its illegal for any Non-CS forces to have, just like the CA-3, CA-4, CA-4 (Nautical), CA-5 Juicer Armor, and CA-6C/EX. - I.E. the new armor.
Because the only way you can get it is to have stolen it from the CS Special Forces, or bought it from someone who did. So theyll kill you for having it. This isn't rocket surgery.
You missed my point, because I was not talking about "non CS", I was talking about CS. As far as I recall, there is no other suit of CS armor that has the same comment under it, because non authorized CS with it is a death penalty to have the CA-7. Other suits of armor only say it is illegal. Now this may be clarified in another section of the book, but under this gear it only states this suit, which could be a possible reason to why this armor would be 20 lbs with jet pack. I was saying I doubt that reasoning too, but it is a possible reason for the current stats. Then insert comment of ridicule because you didn't understand that.
I understood it perfectly. What you seem to be missing is that when the CS finds you in possession of illegally obtained CS property, the sentence is death. On the spot. And always has been. In fact, the only illegal thing you can get away with possessing int he CS and not being sumarilly executed (at least pre-Minion War, im sure things are relaxed for that) is Wilks' items since they were outlawed - and that gets you fined and the gear seized.
obviously you don't understand it. Because you are still arguing your old stance even when the actual facts have been explained.
The discussion is about how the CS treats it to other CS soldiers. Non-CS personal don't even enter into the discussion so your "explanation" about them is irrelevant.
Try to focus on the actual topic at hand, and try to read what people are SAYING, not what you want them to say so you can prove yourself right.
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:But that is why it is also WAY slower, has a MUCH lower altitude ceiling, and FAR shorter range.
Other jet packs are far larger. And faster, higher-flying, and have much better range.
I have never said anything about any of these stats of jet packs in any of my posts. Your trying to make a point where there is none.
The only thing I've been trying to show initially was that jet packs could be smaller than 3 ft astronaut packs. Hence why I also mentioned the Terrain Hopper PA jet pack and built in AI(cyborg) jet pack.
So if your trying to make a point with this then it's not because of anything I've said.
The point im making is your entire premise is full of BS because you lack a fundamental understanding of the topic.
Besides making a personal insult here did you have anythign to say?
Because that seems to be your response to anyone questioning anything you say, you insult them, call them names and then refuse to anser the question because "only an idiot would ask that" or some such.
The speed doesnt matter
The altitude doesnt matter
The range doesnt matter
No one CARES about that... because they dont matter.
The ONLY thing that matters here is if this pack is smaller than the other packs.
Period.
It wouldnt matter if it had a speed of 10mph, a ceiling of 10 feet and a duration of 10 minutes.
if it was a Jet Pack, and it was smaller than 3' x 1.5' x 2' then it is... wait for it... smaller than the other jet packs and as a black swan demonstrates that not all jet packs must be buliky 3x2x1.5 units.
Bringing up irrelivant information does nothing but try and confuse the issue.