What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

I was reflecting today on The Last Jedi and why it still upsets me over a month after I saw it when I had a personal revelation: what really bothers me about the movie is how the director/writer's approach amounted to a wholesale rejection of what had come before in terms of narrative and theme.
Spoiler:
The way the movie treats Luke's lightsaber (tossing it away at the beginning and leaving it broken at the end) seems an apt metaphor for how the director treated the themes, rules, and narrative structures of previous Star Wars movies.
I honestly never really thought much about these themes until I saw them defiled in the most recent Star Wars movie, and that makes me wonder what sorts of themes I might be ignoring in other IP's that I care about.

With that in mind, I'd like to invite you to share and explore some of the core themes and overarching rules of Rifts. I'd like to discuss what makes them important in the context of Rifts Earth as a setting. I'd also like to talk about how these themes have changed over the years, and how we feel about the changes.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
DhAkael
Knight
Posts: 5151
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 3:38 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by DhAkael »

"WHIIIIINNNNEEEEEEEEEE!" :roll: :nh: :P
Bind the body to the opened mind
Bind the body to the opened mind

I dream of towers in a world consumed
A void in the sentient sky
I dream of fissures across the moon
Leaves of the lotus rise


~Dream Again By Miracle of Sound
User avatar
drazool
Wanderer
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by drazool »

Personal power comes at a cost, and that cost is not always apparent.

That beauty does not equal goodness, and conversely, something that looks horrifying is not necessarily evil.

Humanity is a quality that many possess, but not all humans have it, and many who aren't human have plenty of humanity.

Good and evil are real, objectively measurable and observable things, and the conflict between them shapes our world.

Those are some of my takes on this.
User avatar
Braden Campbell
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 3744
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 1:01 am
Location: The Free City of Worldgate

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Braden Campbell »

1st edition, 1990's-era Rifts: Humankind attempts to find its place in a hard-scrabble world that is alien yet familiar.

2nd edition, 2000's Rifts: PEW! PEW! PEW!
Braden, GMPhD
_______________________________________
Braden wrote:Thundercloud Galaxy has a flock of ducks in it that can slag a Glitterboy in one melee.

If that doesn't prompt you to buy it, I don't know what else I can say.
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

The first theme I'd like to discuss is a broken and twisted world. Most of human civilization has been reduced to little more than ruins and faint memories of history. Most of the human population died in the apocalypse, supernatural and alien forces hold sway in many parts, and nature itself seems to be smothering out the last traces of old towns and cities.

Even among surviving human civilizations, a great deal has been twisted and broken. Much of America has become a fascist dictatorship that touts the evils of books. Many other governments have regressed to association and rule by warlords (Russia, Pecos Empire), tribes (Spirit West, Africa) and hereditary feudalism (Tarnow, kingdoms in England).

However, since the original game came out, this theme has been modified somewhat. I've noticed a trend in which, rather than breaking and twisting a region, some authors have opted to pick cultural or historical stereotypes and build Rifts cultures around it. I see this in the traditional samurai cultures of Japan, as well as its modern cities. I see this in both New West and Spirit West. I see this in the the Camelot section of England, the Tundra Rangers (aka mounties) of Canada, the magic O.C.C.'s of Africa, and I fear that I will see this again in the upcoming Sovietski book. This trend troubles me, because I have a hard time believing that any culture would willingly regress to touristy caricatures of its own past. Defining a part of the world by modern-day stereotypes feels like a departure from the creativity that went into the original game's setting. This approach made these parts of the world less interesting to me.

Now I'm not an absolutist on the importance of this theme. Borrowing elements of history and culture and incorporating them into their descendant cultures is appropriate when and where it makes sense, and in some cases, this plays well. The druids of England, for example, seem like a fine basis for the culture of that region, even though they are based on some ancient historical religions of the region, because they don't play to current stereotypes of that part of the world.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

DhAkael wrote:"WHIIIIINNNNEEEEEEEEEE!" :roll: :nh: :P
If you're referring to my angst about The Last Jedi, you're right, and that was part of my little revelation. The movie itself, on its own merits as a standalone movie, doesn't deserve the kind of response I've had. If it was a "Space War" movie, it wouldn't bug me nearly as much as it does as a "Star Wars" movie.

If you're referring to my thoughts about Rifts themes and how they've evolved, then I don't get it.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

drazool wrote:Personal power comes at a cost, and that cost is not always apparent.


Killer Cyborg mentioned something to this effect a couple of days ago and lamented that this theme seems to have weakened over the years. Human augmentation is stated in canon to be a major theme of Rifts, and the idea of it coming at a cost is strong in the core book, with Juicers, crazies, and cyborgs being prime examples.

What do you mean by the cost not always being apparent?
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

drazool wrote:That beauty does not equal goodness, and conversely, something that looks horrifying is not necessarily evil.

Humanity is a quality that many possess, but not all humans have it, and many who aren't human have plenty of humanity.


These two statements seem closely related, and they seem to be rules of narrative as expressed in Erin Tarn's perspective and the authors' perspectives more than in the actual world as written. Is this borne out in the actual description of the world, though? While your second statement seems like it's consistently applied throughout virtually every book they've published, it seems to me that most evil-looking things in Rifts Earth are in fact evil, and that exceptions to this are rare in the published books.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

drazool wrote:Good and evil are real, objectively measurable and observable things, and the conflict between them shapes our world.
This is a theme of Rifts that seems universally applied, yet I find it occasionally frustrating; I'd like to see a Rifts Earth in which two principled characters could disagree and take opposing sides in a war without either one being objectively wrong in a moral sense. The only time I can think of in which this has been done was with the Cyber-Knight split during the Siege on Tolkeen, and I'm not even sure that example holds up, as Coake is portrayed as right, and the splinter faction is portrayed as wrong.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

Braden Campbell wrote:1st edition, 1990's-era Rifts: Humankind attempts to find its place in a hard-scrabble world that is alien yet familiar.

2nd edition, 2000's Rifts: PEW! PEW! PEW!


Can you provide some examples or contrasts between the two eras to back that up? I see plenty of counter-examples. RUE has much more world info and history than RMB, Triax 2 arguably has a higher fluff-to-crunch ratio than its 90's counterpart, and it describes the war against the gargoyles and brodkil in more detail.

Am I missing your point? Are you're referring to the emphasis on conflicts between organized groups that seems to be more prominent since 2000?
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
drazool
Wanderer
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by drazool »

Re: Good and Evil:
Yeah, it's a major gripe that I have, honestly. It actually robs the setting of some potentially interesting conflicts, that aren't just about good vs evil, or even evil vs evil. I think the story of two essentially good aligned empires going to war, fighting over what they believe is right, is an interesting, tragic story, and one that has a potential resolution other than one side "winning".

Re: Evil/Monstrous Good/Beautiful
There are several examples of creatures that are objectively beautiful to behold, but are somehow sinister or outright evil, and several examples of creatures that would be quite terrifying or monstrous that can in fact have principles or scrupulous alignments. This runs the gamut from, for example, the Prosek family, who are usually depicted as rather dashing, and straight-up evil, to powerful dbees like the Pandemonium who are extremely beautiful, and outright evil. For examples that go the other way, you might have a cyborg who looks like a metal monstrosity but is kind with a heart of gold, or cactus people, lyn-srial, etc. Some are not exactly "monstrous" looking, but are definitely not "human", yet demonstrate values such as mercy, kindness, nobility.

Re: Cost of Power
Paths to power include cybernetics, magic, organizational power, wealth, high-tech, etc. In many cases, the cost is immediate and obvious, your juicers, your crazies, borgs, etc. But even magicians, cyber/cosmo-knights, the wealthy, etc, are constrained in some way by their powers. Magicians are shunned and feared in many places, and are obvious targets of powerful non-human entities. The wealthy must constantly be on guard lest their wealth be taken from them, and those with organizational power, such as high ranking coalition officers, might command hundreds of thousands of MD worth of weaponry, yet aren't entirely their own creatures, and must tow a very specific line, or be drummed out or worse. Their costs are more properly seen as obligations.

Arguably the most "free", in the sense of liberated OCC in the game is the Vagabond. By starting with little to no power, the vagabond also comes with zero obligations or responsibilities, and is fully in possession of his/her humanity. A vagabond may go anywhere humans are allowed, with little to no suspicion or restriction, and requires no expensive maintenance.

Arguably your body-fixers, cyber-docs, rogue scholars, etc, each offer more "power", but each also comes with more responsibilities, obligations, etc.
User avatar
Braden Campbell
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 3744
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 1:01 am
Location: The Free City of Worldgate

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Braden Campbell »

Hotrod wrote: Are you're referring to the emphasis on conflicts between organized groups that seems to be more prominent since 2000?


Pretty much.

In the first era, we were constantly told that the world was mostly wilderness and that large, organized power blocs were the exception, rather than the norm. As of RUE, however, Rifts is a game of warring nation-states. We have more history only because the setting now has 25 years of material to draw upon, but the tone has definitely changed.
Braden, GMPhD
_______________________________________
Braden wrote:Thundercloud Galaxy has a flock of ducks in it that can slag a Glitterboy in one melee.

If that doesn't prompt you to buy it, I don't know what else I can say.
User avatar
drazool
Wanderer
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by drazool »

Braden Campbell wrote:
Hotrod wrote: Are you're referring to the emphasis on conflicts between organized groups that seems to be more prominent since 2000?


Pretty much.

In the first era, we were constantly told that the world was mostly wilderness and that large, organized power blocs were the exception, rather than the norm. As of RUE, however, Rifts is a game of warring nation-states. We have more history only because the setting now has 25 years of material to draw upon, but the tone has definitely changed.


Plus, it seems that the default stance for these nation states is "kill everyone that isn't us", with only a few exceptions.
User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9801
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

In theory, a major theme of Rifts is humankind's ascent out of the apocalypse, and integration into a world that is beyond our scope and ken. That our survival in that world frequently requires sacrificing pieces of ourselves to the creation of a better world... and the myriad visions of a better world that might be.

In practice, this conflicts with its narrative rule of "Is it cool? Do it twice, do it EVERYWHERE." Alien intelligences are cool, so they are everywhere. Power armor is cool, so we do it everywhere.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Hotrod wrote:I was reflecting today on The Last Jedi and why it still upsets me over a month after I saw it when I had a personal revelation: what really bothers me about the movie is how the director/writer's approach amounted to a wholesale rejection of what had come before in terms of narrative and theme.
Spoiler:
The way the movie treats Luke's lightsaber (tossing it away at the beginning and leaving it broken at the end) seems an apt metaphor for how the director treated the themes, rules, and narrative structures of previous Star Wars movies.
I honestly never really thought much about these themes until I saw them defiled in the most recent Star Wars movie, and that makes me wonder what sorts of themes I might be ignoring in other IP's that I care about.


Kudos on your new awareness of theme!

If you'd like to hear why I felt the change in themes was entirely appropriate and enjoyable, and how it fits into a tried and true tradition of storytelling that goes back at least as far as The Iliad, let me know and I'll PM you.
Otherwise, I'll stick to Rifts in this thread.
;)

With that in mind, I'd like to invite you to share and explore some of the core themes and overarching rules of Rifts. I'd like to discuss what makes them important in the context of Rifts Earth as a setting. I'd also like to talk about how these themes have changed over the years, and how we feel about the changes.


Well, that's the thing: the themes of Rifts have changed so much that the original themes are all but lost.

When Rifts came out, it grabbed my attention for any number of reasons.
Okay, there were the Altarians on the cover. That grabbed my attention.

But Rifts was a gritty world where humanity in its unaugmented state was being threatened with extinction by forces that were insanely powerful. In order to compete, humans had to step up their game, an in order to do that they had to pay some kind of price.
Mostly.

It was a setting that was full of tempting options, each of which had its downsides.
Mages were able to harness the power to potentially, in the long run, rival the monsters and demons that were running around the planet. While they were fully able to utilize sturdy armor and powerful guns, in a pinch they could call down lighting from the Heavens to blast their enemies, or hurl a blast of fire from their own hands. They could turn invisible, fly... heck, you know what mages do. Mages are powerful and versatile.
BUT originally in Rifts mages had a set of inherent problems as well. Obviously, they were hunted by the Coalition, so any time they were in CS territory or crossed paths with CS operatives, their lives were in danger.
Also, though, any time they ran into wild psi-stalkers, their lives were in danger.
Also, their high levels of PPE would stand out like a beacon to any number of supernatural critters running around (10% of natural predators had psi-stalker-like abilities to sense magic/psychic energy, and 25% of supernatural predators fed on PPE.
Heck, they were even tempting targets to evil mages, for use as a human sacrifice or PPE battery.

Psychics have roughly the same issues as mages, but without the same general power level. Again, the very powers that let you fight The Bad Things are what draw them to you in the first place.

Modified Men such as Borgs, Juicers, and Crazies could become physically powerful enough stand toe-to-toe with supernatural monsters... but they'd lose their humanity, lives, and sanity respectively.

Cyber-Knights Didn't have much of a downside, unless you count their code of honor... which many players do.
But they also weren't all that powerful either. They were tougher than a CS Grunt (assuming equal gear), but not by a whole lot.

Dragons were awesome and powerful... but they were also dragons. They didn't exactly blend in, so they had the same problem as mages (being either a hated enemy or potential food), but they stuck out a lot more.
Sure, they could shape-change to blend in... but only for a limited duration, here or there.

Coalition Soldiers were to me the essence of Rifts: In order to save yourself from the demons, you had to join the Nazis. Few games have such a beautiful and human dilemma at the outset, as part of the basic setting. Sure, you could try to survive without siding with either Magic or the Coalition, but that's its own downside right there because you'll be between a Baalrog and a hard place.
Rifts was about humanity, what humanity would do to survive, and what humanity would do to fight for what they believe in.
That was a major theme in early Rifts.

This changed as early as CB1, when super-heroes and ninjas and such got an upgrade to mega-damage, often for silly reasons or no reason at all (looking at you Wrist Hardening Exercise which provides 4 MDC!).
And as later books added more and more people, places, and things, the original exploration was often ignored, forgotten, or abandoned in favor of "but wouldn't it be kewler if..."
Pretty soon, it wasn't just "You have to choose between supernatural forces you can't comprehend or Nazis," there were plenty of other options out there that provided similar stability to the CS, but without the skulls and goose-stepping.
And more supernatural races popped up that could have the best of both worlds by being able to blend in with a human crowd as well as a human mage, but having natural MDC and other powers that human mages didn't have.
Things went from "I'm going to give up my entire life minus 5 years in exchange for the power to fight my enemies." to "Eh. I think I'll be a True Atlantean Gunslinger instead."
Or whatever.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Braden Campbell wrote:1st edition, 1990's-era Rifts: Humankind attempts to find its place in a hard-scrabble world that is alien yet familiar.

2nd edition, 2000's Rifts: PEW! PEW! PEW!


Well, crap.
That pretty well sums it up.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Braden Campbell
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 3744
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 1:01 am
Location: The Free City of Worldgate

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Braden Campbell »

;) I've been around the Rifts-verse a while ...
Braden, GMPhD
_______________________________________
Braden wrote:Thundercloud Galaxy has a flock of ducks in it that can slag a Glitterboy in one melee.

If that doesn't prompt you to buy it, I don't know what else I can say.
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3421
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Hotrod »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
Hotrod wrote:I was reflecting today on The Last Jedi and why it still upsets me over a month after I saw it when I had a personal revelation: what really bothers me about the movie is how the director/writer's approach amounted to a wholesale rejection of what had come before in terms of narrative and theme.
Spoiler:
The way the movie treats Luke's lightsaber (tossing it away at the beginning and leaving it broken at the end) seems an apt metaphor for how the director treated the themes, rules, and narrative structures of previous Star Wars movies.
I honestly never really thought much about these themes until I saw them defiled in the most recent Star Wars movie, and that makes me wonder what sorts of themes I might be ignoring in other IP's that I care about.


Kudos on your new awareness of theme!

If you'd like to hear why I felt the change in themes was entirely appropriate and enjoyable, and how it fits into a tried and true tradition of storytelling that goes back at least as far as The Iliad, let me know and I'll PM you.
Otherwise, I'll stick to Rifts in this thread.
;)
I'd rather enjoy reading your perspective on TLJ, so yes, please do send it to me. I found the movie to be visually stunning eye candy with recycled music (even if it was awesome) fairly competent acting, awful writing, and poor editing. The plot holes and blatantly nonsensical decisions that the movie tried to pass off as being good decisions irked me, and oh my goodness, I'm just ranting now.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Rifts was a gritty world where humanity in its unaugmented state was being threatened with extinction by forces that were insanely powerful. In order to compete, humans had to step up their game, an in order to do that they had to pay some kind of price.
Mostly.

It was a setting that was full of tempting options, each of which had its downsides.
Mages were able to harness the power to potentially, in the long run, rival the monsters and demons that were running around the planet. While they were fully able to utilize sturdy armor and powerful guns, in a pinch they could call down lighting from the Heavens to blast their enemies, or hurl a blast of fire from their own hands. They could turn invisible, fly... heck, you know what mages do. Mages are powerful and versatile.
BUT originally in Rifts mages had a set of inherent problems as well. Obviously, they were hunted by the Coalition, so any time they were in CS territory or crossed paths with CS operatives, their lives were in danger.
Also, though, any time they ran into wild psi-stalkers, their lives were in danger.
Also, their high levels of PPE would stand out like a beacon to any number of supernatural critters running around (10% of natural predators had psi-stalker-like abilities to sense magic/psychic energy, and 25% of supernatural predators fed on PPE.
Heck, they were even tempting targets to evil mages, for use as a human sacrifice or PPE battery.

Psychics have roughly the same issues as mages, but without the same general power level. Again, the very powers that let you fight The Bad Things are what draw them to you in the first place.

Modified Men such as Borgs, Juicers, and Crazies could become physically powerful enough stand toe-to-toe with supernatural monsters... but they'd lose their humanity, lives, and sanity respectively.

Cyber-Knights Didn't have much of a downside, unless you count their code of honor... which many players do.
But they also weren't all that powerful either. They were tougher than a CS Grunt (assuming equal gear), but not by a whole lot.

Dragons were awesome and powerful... but they were also dragons. They didn't exactly blend in, so they had the same problem as mages (being either a hated enemy or potential food), but they stuck out a lot more.
Sure, they could shape-change to blend in... but only for a limited duration, here or there.

Coalition Soldiers were to me the essence of Rifts: In order to save yourself from the demons, you had to join the Nazis. Few games have such a beautiful and human dilemma at the outset, as part of the basic setting. Sure, you could try to survive without siding with either Magic or the Coalition, but that's its own downside right there because you'll be between a Baalrog and a hard place.
Rifts was about humanity, what humanity would do to survive, and what humanity would do to fight for what they believe in.
That was a major theme in early Rifts.

This changed as early as CB1, when super-heroes and ninjas and such got an upgrade to mega-damage, often for silly reasons or no reason at all (looking at you Wrist Hardening Exercise which provides 4 MDC!).
And as later books added more and more people, places, and things, the original exploration was often ignored, forgotten, or abandoned in favor of "but wouldn't it be kewler if..."
Pretty soon, it wasn't just "You have to choose between supernatural forces you can't comprehend or Nazis," there were plenty of other options out there that provided similar stability to the CS, but without the skulls and goose-stepping.
And more supernatural races popped up that could have the best of both worlds by being able to blend in with a human crowd as well as a human mage, but having natural MDC and other powers that human mages didn't have.
Things went from "I'm going to give up my entire life minus 5 years in exchange for the power to fight my enemies." to "Eh. I think I'll be a True Atlantean Gunslinger instead."
Or whatever.

I find Cyber-Knights to be an interesting case study of changes in theme. In RMB, they were something of a hybrid class of cybernetics and psionics dedicating to fighting evil, especially supernatural evil. Now, they are anti-tech psionic warriors, many of whom chose to fight on the side that used a whole lot of supernatural evil. While I liked some of the fluff of their sourcebook, the anti-tech slant didn't seem consistent with their role outside the Siege on Tolkeen.

How do you feel about the development of the CS in the years since? There may be many more choices now, but they still seem like a reasonable and viable one for players.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
RockJock
Knight
Posts: 3792
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Nashville.....ish....

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by RockJock »

I fall into the viewpoint of 1990s Rifts was more wild land with small groups trying to survive, and maybe inch up in the world after the dark ages while RUE Rifts is the battle of city states.

As far as the stereotypes go it depends. Most of them are take it or leave it. For example, I tend to play the New West Native Americans as the civilized groups, either magical, tech, or mixed. They haven't lost their history, or even the history of the US during the Dark Ages. It makes sense that as a people, they touch their older magical heritage. If it wasn't for Spirit West classes there would be lots of things like Mystics, Warlocks, and Druids in Native American communities in my games. The raiding bands and all that are Pecos Bandits, Simvan, and Wild Psi-Stalkers not Native Americans. I don't think it has ever made it into a game, but in the back of my mind I see Wilks as being a preserve based business to make the tribal council cash, but also help keep the problems in check all over the continent. The Western stylings are just stylings, so take as much cheese as fits your game.


The anti tech Cyber Knight has never made great sense to me story wise. Using tech salvaged, or saved from a by gone Golden Age to help protect the little guy makes sense, as does something akin to the PF Undead/Witch Hunter geared towards fighting SN evil, but having it geared towards tech just makes them an anti-CS force. Even worse an anti-CS force that backstory wise just sort of came into being before the CS was the Nazi bad guys.
RockJock, holder of the mighty Rune Rock Hammer!
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27954
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Hotrod wrote:I find Cyber-Knights to be an interesting case study of changes in theme. In RMB, they were something of a hybrid class of cybernetics and psionics dedicating to fighting evil, especially supernatural evil. Now, they are anti-tech psionic warriors, many of whom chose to fight on the side that used a whole lot of supernatural evil. While I liked some of the fluff of their sourcebook, the anti-tech slant didn't seem consistent with their role outside the Siege on Tolkeen.


That's emblematic of a couple other changes in theme:
1. Rifts was originally intended to be a Thinking Man's Game, and it's gotten dumbed down regularly since. SDC was originally much more viable than it is now, because players were expected to think things through more, use more strategy, spend more time out of their armor, and so forth. Also, the monsters in the back of the RMB all had weaknesses that could be exploited by people without any mega-damage, so if a person was smart and/or lucky, they could survive and kill the bad guys without a toe-to-toe Mega-Damage battle.
Consequently, CK's were originally slightly-better-than-average soldiers with a bit of back-up armor (that might not even save them due to the AR) and a backup psi-sword they could pull out in a pinch (which they didn't even have to be proficient with), and a lot of skills. But fanboys didn't get why CKs weren't all-powerful Jedi who used their psi-swords for everything (instead of a variety of weapons), so the game has changed to reflect that low expectation.

2. When the game started, the CS was anti magic and pro technology. But nobody else on the planet was depicted as being anywhere near that prejudiced. Over the years, this has changed, from Dweomer's anti-technology snobbery to the Rifts Adventure Guide's depiction of most communities as either being anti-tech or anti-magic.
The change in the CKs is an extension of the same thing. Previously their powers were neutral against all foes, and now they're specifically anti-technology.
All of which is absurd because Palladium (in BtS, IIRC) has outright stated at least once that "magic" is really just natural forces that science hasn't caught up with yet. That was Victor Lazlo's whole deal, trying to explore magic using science.
It's not really a "supernatural" force, and there's no real reason for science/technology and magic to be opposed--magic is a kind of technology.

How do you feel about the development of the CS in the years since? There may be many more choices now, but they still seem like a reasonable and viable one for players.


The CS is pretty much on track, I think. Their themes haven't changed much: they're still misguided people and anti-heroes who are mislead and controlled by evil people.
The main change in the CS is simply that the rest of the game has had so much power creep, and there are so many plot holes and grey areas in the settings and rules, that they keep having to bump up the CS' power level in order for people to see them as a viable force, and in order for the CS to keep to their original description as the dominant tech power on the planet.
They're still perfectly viable for players, and as the largest and most organized military we've seen, they're the go-to option for people who want to be a soldier IMO.

Edit:
But what's changed is a reduction in sympathy for them; they're no longer the only real game in town for mundane humans.
Last edited by Killer Cyborg on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
Sohisohi
Explorer
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:13 pm

themes and narratives of Rifts

Unread post by Sohisohi »

life is suffering, always and forever. I remember reading in one of the books that even the safest villages daily deals with death, rape, and drug abuse. Pretty much everyone in Rifts Earth suffers from some shade of PTSD (also remember reading it somewhere). Literally every character has felt loss; which ultimately makes death a nothing experience. Characters must be a representation of there ideals, not where they come from (though obviously background can effect that).

Ignorance - from North America, to England, to even Africa. . . Ignorance is a pretty heavy theme. Literately the end of existence is taking place in Africa (adding in the new HoH book only makes things worse) but nobody even seems to knows what's going on. England is a game of chess and puppets and the CS practically outlaws history. Everyone is to busy surviving day-to-day that they don't even relies what is happening around them. Devil walks into a bar, slits someones throat, drinks the blood, and leaves. . . Demon Hunters aren't even warned about it because most supernatural creatures are just assumed to by D-Bees.
User avatar
drazool
Wanderer
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:51 pm

Re: themes and narratives of Rifts

Unread post by drazool »

Sohisohi wrote:life is suffering, always and forever. I remember reading in one of the books that even the safest villages daily deals with death, rape, and drug abuse. Pretty much everyone in Rifts Earth suffers from some shade of PTSD (also remember reading it somewhere). Literally every character has felt loss; which ultimately makes death a nothing experience. Characters must be a representation of there ideals, not where they come from (though obviously background can effect that).

Ignorance - from North America, to England, to even Africa. . . Ignorance is a pretty heavy theme. Literately the end of existence is taking place in Africa (adding in the new HoH book only makes things worse) but nobody even seems to knows what's going on. England is a game of chess and puppets and the CS practically outlaws history. Everyone is to busy surviving day-to-day that they don't even relies what is happening around them. Devil walks into a bar, slits someones throat, drinks the blood, and leaves. . . Demon Hunters aren't even warned about it because most supernatural creatures are just assumed to by D-Bees.


Real quick, what is HoH?
Sohisohi
Explorer
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:13 pm

Re: Wut HoH?

Unread post by Sohisohi »

That's just the shorthand I use for (the) CS: Heroes of Humanity book.

Edit: so now you got the horsemen and the beginning of a demon invasion looming on the horizon. Overall, Africa is looking pretty bleak. . . Might decide to start a new Demon Hunter campaign in Africa now.
Colonel_Tetsuya
Champion
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am

Re: Wut HoH?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Sohisohi wrote:That's just the shorthand I use for (the) CS: Heroes of Humanity book.

Edit: so now you got the horsemen and the beginning of a demon invasion looming on the horizon. Overall, Africa is looking pretty bleak. . . Might decide to start a new Demon Hunter campaign in Africa now.


FWIW, the Horsemen are done. In canon, they were dealt with by the Gathering of Heroes back whenever that book was set (104 P.A. ?).

To the point that Death has taken over one of the Demon Lords (detailed in Megaverse in Flames) to try again.
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.
User avatar
taalismn
Priest
Posts: 47908
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by taalismn »

Identity. As you claw your way out of the dark ages and fight to survive, what do you want to survive AS? A monolithic species-specifc culture? An all-inclusive one embracing all life? Seekers of knowledge, no matter how esoteric or dangerous, or do you seek to learn only what is practical, controlled, safe? Do you sacrifice individual liberty for security, or do you take chances that your universe will change, possibly every day? Stay safe behind walls, or walk dangerously between universes? Technology or magic, or some middle ground accommodating both?
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
User avatar
Wise_Owl
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Wise_Owl »

Others have covered how things changed over the years, for my part I'll put down how I generally 'felt' about Rifts over time, with the pre-amble that Rifts China 2 was the last book I bought and even that was entirely a combination Nostalgia/China is what I study sort of thing. Ahem.

So going from the initial set of books(The Core, First Sourcebook, Conversion Guide, the first couple of World-books) Rifts struck me as being a setting of absolute Gonzo oddness. Not so radical anymore, but in the early 90's the idea of having a setting with Cyborgs, Dragons, Giant Anime-Style Robots, Magic, etc. Was unusual. And Rifts always sort of spoke to my inner 12 year old. The core themes we played with even back in the day are things people have already mentioned; a world ravaged and changed, with things familiar and yet alien. A world where just being a scientist or a Scholar could mean you were an outlaw. People who, through technology, drugs, implants, cybernetics, magic, psionics or what have you were more than just people. Where who the goods guys were and the bad guys was always clear, but sometimes topsy-turvy from the way you might 'expect' things to be. By this I don't mean that there weren't ambiguous characters are that the PC's always knew who was good or bad, just that there were definitive 'Villians' and they were known to the people who had read the books.

Our early games were mostly about small bands of people kind of doing the Fugitive thing; going from community to community solving problems; fighting Monsters or the Coalition. Interestingly enough, only two times can I recall anyone playing a Coalition soldier in our games. For us the Coalition was always one of the 'Big Bads'.

Again early on, and for a host of books there was a sense of an expanding and interesting worlds; England had a reborn Arthurian Legend and Giant Mystic Tree's! Mexico was covered in vampired, the new/old Continent of Atlantis was ruled by Monsters and they were AWESOME. I would say there was a slow sort of shift, which you could see in hindsight starting around World Book 7 or so, but that became fully manifest by the Coalition War Campaign. Some of it was just setting growth, but some of it was tonal. The shift towards more and more about North America was one such feature.

Oh, and of course... um... reductive Stereotypes? Like taking sort of surface level things about a place and making that the most important things about that place? England is Camelot and Knights, Africa is Tribes and Witch-Doctors, the Western US is Cowboys and 'Indians'. Tonnes of great stuff came out later that I think was more in line with early stuff(I would say Undersea was the last of the truly Great 'early' books, but the two Russian Books were quite good as well) but the tonal shift was definately complete by than. Might have to do with some sort of audience shift as well? There seemed to be an increased military focus as time went on?

Okay so a really short versin; Rifts is a Comic Book that is part Masters of the Universe, Part Heavy-Metal Van art. Everything is intense. If something isn't 'cool' in the 13 year old sense of the world, it isn't worth talking about. Things happen to narratively support the possibilities of a small group of Heroes saving the Day.
The Way that can be told,
is not the true unchanging way

The way that can be named,
is not the true unnamable way
User avatar
Thom001
Explorer
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:22 am

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Thom001 »

I noticed the changes down the line. The main book (that was all I had for a long time) is very original and gritty, the next set of books was a big power jump with 1d4x10 mdc pistols and such when at the time my character had a wilks laser pistol and some plate md armor with no faceplate. So since then groups I have been in have luckily opted to keep the world gritty and difficult like rmb. We tend to evaluate each book and modify things to fit. It just seems that the focus switched from adventure, survival, and exploration to making sure there are lots of big skirmishes and battles.
User avatar
taalismn
Priest
Posts: 47908
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by taalismn »

Like the term 'gonzo'...yeah, I was playing Robotech when I first encountered Rifts, and what got m were a) power levels, and b) wild and dark(without being dark and boring, like a lot of horror RPGs I was familiar with). There were at least two classes I saw as SUICIDAL(Crazies and Juicers) and I figured there was hardly any way for characters to survive(I'd later change this belief to Splicers).
Oh, I was familiar with mixed free-for-all-madness settings like Gamma World, but Rifts had cranked it up a notch. The Rifts simply encouraged crossovers.... :D 8)
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
guardiandashi
Hero
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:21 am

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by guardiandashi »

thinking back about early rifts I agree with the idea that the world is a cross between a comic book and a super hero game with some mad max and other genres tossed in.

the core setting is kind of a recovering post apolyptic nightmare world. but not in the sense of the world being nuked out of existence like fallout. to be honest in some ways the DR Strange movie from last year? with some of its mind blowing acid trip scenes kind of fits with rifts to me.

and I totally agree that to me rifts seems designed to have crossovers,
some of the novels that I read seem to embody the idea of rifts would include things like ... spider Robinsons Calahans cross time saloon, or Robert Asprins Myth series. throw in some back to the future, some star wars and star trek, and a whole bunch of anime and you start to get a feel for my feeling of what rifts can be.
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Braden Campbell wrote:1st edition, 1990's-era Rifts: Humankind attempts to find its place in a hard-scrabble world that is alien yet familiar.

2nd edition, 2000's Rifts: PEW! PEW! PEW!



... Lasers don't make noise... or did you by the aftermarket add on that actually says pew pew pew in a human voice? :D
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Hotrod wrote:
DhAkael wrote:"WHIIIIINNNNEEEEEEEEEE!" :roll: :nh: :P
If you're referring to my angst about The Last Jedi, you're right, and that was part of my little revelation. The movie itself, on its own merits as a standalone movie, doesn't deserve the kind of response I've had. If it was a "Space War" movie, it wouldn't bug me nearly as much as it does as a "Star Wars" movie.

If you're referring to my thoughts about Rifts themes and how they've evolved, then I don't get it.

At the same time we have a general we've never heard of coming up with the idea of using a lone... suicidal hyperjump through an enemy ship... after they've lectured the "guy" about going on lone suicidal assaults... :nh: It's turning from SW to SJW and why didn't they... she think of that before when they had three ships and the occupants of those ships could have evacuated on those smaller ships instead of dying?
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Eagle
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:31 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Eagle »

Don't even get me started on The Last Jedi. Grumble grumble. Flaming turd of a movie.
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Eagle wrote:Don't even get me started on The Last Jedi. Grumble grumble. Flaming turd of a movie.

Hey flaming turds have a higher purpose than making money or Social "Justice" they provide mirth.
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
TeeAychEeMarchHare
Explorer
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:56 pm
Comment: War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by TeeAychEeMarchHare »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Eagle wrote:Don't even get me started on The Last Jedi. Grumble grumble. Flaming turd of a movie.

Hey flaming turds have a higher purpose than making money or Social "Justice" they provide mirth.


I have yet to hear a good thing about that movie or The Farce Awakens.

But, hanging out on the FFG Star Wars game forums, there are people who had nothing good to say about Rogue One also, and I really liked Rogue One.


As for the topic at hand, I think others have covered it pretty well. The setting has really mutated, and in some ways I like that (I love all the tech choices), in others not so much. I can see certain parts of the world being nothing but monsters and primitive people with magic, because there are parts of the world *today* that are, overall, primitive wastelands where the people defecate in the street, believe in black magic, live in mud huts, or have zero or next to zero contact with the outside world and thus maintain a lifestyle they've had for a thousand years.

I liked the "humans struggling to survive on what has become an alien world" origin better than the War of the Week that it's become.

The great thing about roleplaying games is, when you're the GM you can change anything and everything that you don't like.
Too much ammo is a self-correcting problem.
User avatar
taalismn
Priest
Posts: 47908
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by taalismn »

Zer0 Kay wrote:[


... Lasers don't make noise... or did you by the aftermarket add on that actually says pew pew pew in a human voice? :D


No, my lasers belt out recorded telemarketer calls...confuses the hell out of the enemy...or annoys them no end.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Zer0 Kay wrote:did you by the aftermarket add on that actually says pew pew pew in a human voice? :D

Did anyone do this prior to the Lego Batman Movie?
Sohisohi
Explorer
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:13 pm

Re: Wut HoH?

Unread post by Sohisohi »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Sohisohi wrote:That's just the shorthand I use for (the) CS: Heroes of Humanity book.

Edit: so now you got the horsemen and the beginning of a demon invasion looming on the horizon. Overall, Africa is looking pretty bleak. . . Might decide to start a new Demon Hunter campaign in Africa now.

FWIW, the Horsemen are done. In canon, they were dealt with by the Gathering of Heroes back whenever that book was set (104 P.A. ?).

To the point that Death has taken over one of the Demon Lords (detailed in Megaverse in Flames) to try again.
interesting, I always thought that book left things more open ended.
Good to know.
User avatar
The Beast
Demon Lord Extraordinaire
Posts: 5956
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Location: Apocrypha

Re: Wut HoH?

Unread post by The Beast »

Sohisohi wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Sohisohi wrote:That's just the shorthand I use for (the) CS: Heroes of Humanity book.

Edit: so now you got the horsemen and the beginning of a demon invasion looming on the horizon. Overall, Africa is looking pretty bleak. . . Might decide to start a new Demon Hunter campaign in Africa now.

FWIW, the Horsemen are done. In canon, they were dealt with by the Gathering of Heroes back whenever that book was set (104 P.A. ?).

To the point that Death has taken over one of the Demon Lords (detailed in Megaverse in Flames) to try again.
interesting, I always thought that book left things more open ended.
Good to know.


Well Africa left it open ended. Later books though were written assuming the Four Horsemen were defeated.
User avatar
Shamrock 'Slinger
Wanderer
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:29 pm

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Shamrock 'Slinger »

Being as I didn't ever play it in the 90s nor own the original main book, I have only experienced the RUE setting with things being post-Tolkien war and amidst the Minion War era, so 109-10 PA.

Everything and the kitchen sink gone Gonzo is quite an apt description. But in some ways I don't see a huge difference with other RPGs. You still have adventuring PCs that take on the challenges that are thrown at them, be it world ending apocalypse or warring kingdoms. Acquiring loot and reward is still the basis of most jobs in a campaign.

I sorta like the stereotypes built into the areas. They are a bit trite in a way, but I think it works well with the world's setting.
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

taalismn wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:[


... Lasers don't make noise... or did you by the aftermarket add on that actually says pew pew pew in a human voice? :D


No, my lasers belt out recorded telemarketer calls...confuses the hell out of the enemy...or annoys them no end.


Run!!! It's THE..... Telemarketer!!!
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: What are the themes and narrative rules of Rifts?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Axelmania wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:did you by the aftermarket add on that actually says pew pew pew in a human voice? :D

Did anyone do this prior to the Lego Batman Movie?


Say pew, pew, pew... I dunnoh, why? (I haven't seen the Lego Batman Movie)
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Locked

Return to “Rifts®”