Invulnerability in Rifts

[drazool]

Specifically, from the invulnerability power from heroes unlimited.

yadda yadd "Most physical attack do no damage whatsoever!", with some qualifiers. It then goes on to mention that psionics, magic, etc do damage.

ok from conversion book:

add SDC, HP together, they become MDC, same batch of provisos from the HU writeup. Then "All other aspects of the power remain unchanged"

I've always thought that the Invulnerability power in rifts just gave a dude 700 MDC, but that must be the writeup from the old conversion book.

Aaand so it is. mention of 700 MDC, half damage from a few things, and full effect from a few things.

So, who allows this power in their game, and which version of the power do you allow? If you allow the power from the revised CB1, do you treat it similar to, say, a vampire's MDC?

Both versions of the power have their pros and cons.

[Killer Cyborg]

I've always thought that the Invulnerability power in rifts just gave a dude 700 MDC, but that must be the writeup from the old conversion book.

Nope.
It's always been Invulnerability, and it's always made you Invulnerable to most attacks.
The original CB1 also gave Invulnerable characters 700 MDC.
If an Invulnerable character is shot by a Boom Gun, they laugh it off. No damage.
If an Invulnerable character is hit by a magic sword, then they lose some of that MDC.

In later books, they nerfed the amount of MDC, but the power has always made you invulnerable.
Hence the name of the power.

[Vincent Takeda]

I allow it with the same version Killer Cyborg uses. I surprisingly dont get a lot of players who want to pick it though. I think a lot of my players find being immune to so many possible versions of damage takes away some of the excitement of the game. Same reason I dont see a lot of folks choosing intangible... Ghosting out of a tight situation works really well... so well that it can get old pretty quick... On the other hand the number of people I see stackin prowess like its goin out of style... That never seems to get old.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The MDC the power gives in MDC settings covers the MD attacks that the char was not impervious to.

Knock Down and Knock Back effect are evaluated on the amount of damage rolled. Even if a char is impervious to damage from explosions and kinetic attacks.

[(SHIFTY)]

I always thought the 700 MDC was way too much on the old rules in CB1. I am glad they revised the rule for it.

[Axelmania]

It causes a few upsets though. For example in Pantheons of the Megaverse, pg 64 had Endiku Longhair's 750 MDC from his Invulnerability tattoo only slightly better than Herbert Rowland's super power on pg 103's 710 MDC.

He's an HU mutant so I think that +10 is probably from CB42's note to convert SDC bonuses to MDC bonuses. HURp110 had 4D4 SDC bonus for "Stocky" which Herb looks like judging by the art, CJ probably just forgot to note that.

The bonus 1D4 to PS Would explain how he got PS 32 from merely "Extraordinary PS" which CB44 only has increase you to 20+1D6. Max 26 is increased to 30 this way. He has body building and boxing whose +4 only gets from 28 to 32, so he really needs that 1D4 unless he has other PS-boosting physical skills which are not "of note". That COULD be the case since he does have crush/squeeze which I think you need Wrestling for, which could accont for that last +2, assuming he rolled a perfect 6 on EPS' 1D6. Still leaves room for the 1D4 though.

With 63 HP and 230 SDC he'd be reduced to 293 MDC now, totally outclassed.

[Killer Cyborg]

I always thought the 700 MDC was way too much on the old rules in CB1. I am glad they revised the rule for it.

How much MDC do you think is too much for a Superman/Hulk level superhero?

[eliakon]

I always thought the 700 MDC was way too much on the old rules in CB1. I am glad they revised the rule for it.

How much MDC do you think is too much for a Superman/Hulk level superhero?

Since they are not the average hero nor level 1 that isn't germane to the question is it?
handing out massive MDC to everyone that is immune to all non-magical damage and handing out massive MDC to high level mega-heroes is a bit different.
After all this also gave alot of HU vampires 700 MDC...

[drazool]

superman should have almost no MDC, for the hulk 700 or so is appropriate, but he should regenerate something like 2d4x10 per melee.

"realistically" superman would take damage from a SDC kryptonite bullet, and might not actually have any MDC

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

superman should have almost no MDC, for the hulk 700 or so is appropriate, but he should regenerate something like 2d4x10 per melee.

"realistically" superman would take damage from a SDC kryptonite bullet, and might not actually have any MDC

In a non-magic-rich world, yes. In Rifts Earth, hes got MDC because all that ambient energy turns him into an MDC being.

However, id also say that Rifts/Heroes doesnt do a good job of covering “all circumstances” like Superman. His vulnerability to Kryptonite would have to be a GM thing and id say that Kryptonite hurts him, period. Whatever the damage listed, he takes it his (insert relevant health statistic here) regardless of what it normally inflicts.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In a non-magic-rich world, yes. In Rifts Earth, he's got MDC because all that ambient energy turns him into an MDC being.

...snip

A char with the Invulnerability super ability does not become MDC.

Their power creates, in Effect, a MDC Force Field around them in a MDC setting. This catches the MD attacks from magic, psionics, and other things that the char is not invulnerable to. So the char that is shrugging off the railgun rounds and lasers does not go !POP! when hit by a fire bolt or mind bolt or a TK-force bolt TW/tech magic rifle/pistol.

[Killer Cyborg]

I always thought the 700 MDC was way too much on the old rules in CB1. I am glad they revised the rule for it.

How much MDC do you think is too much for a Superman/Hulk level superhero?

Since they are not the average hero nor level 1 that isn't germane to the question is it?

You don't think that Superman and the Hulk were ever level 1?
Like you think that Superboy early on, or the Hulk the first time he ripped his purple trousers, had pretty low MDC equivilant, and they got stronger as they leveled up?
Or what?


Powers are powers. If your power is invulnerability, that's your power.
If you get it at level 1, then you get it at level 1. It's not any weaker than at higher levels, not with that power anyway.

handing out massive MDC to everyone that is immune to all non-magical damage and handing out massive MDC to high level mega-heroes is a bit different.

You mean "everybody with the Invulnerability power."
Okay, but I don't know why that's any different. It's the kind of power that's intended to represent those kinds of characters.

After all this also gave alot of HU vampires 700 MDC...

Huh?

[Killer Cyborg]

superman should have almost no MDC, for the hulk 700 or so is appropriate, but he should regenerate something like 2d4x10 per melee.

"realistically" superman would take damage from a SDC kryptonite bullet, and might not actually have any MDC

Lots of MDC critters on Rifts take mega-damage from SDC attacks that they're vulnerable to.

[dreicunan]

In a non-magic-rich world, yes. In Rifts Earth, he's got MDC because all that ambient energy turns him into an MDC being.

...snip

A char with the Invulnerability super ability does not become MDC.

Their power creates, in Effect, a MDC Force Field around them in a MDC setting. This catches the MD attacks from magic, psionics, and other things that the char is not invulnerable to. So the char that is shrugging off the railgun rounds and lasers does not go !POP! when hit by a fire bolt or mind bolt or a TK-force bolt TW/tech magic rifle/pistol.

So according to you they still have HP and SDC underneath this never before mentioned in any canon text of which I am aware force field and thus would be vulnerable to a spell that does damage direct to hit points?

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

In a non-magic-rich world, yes. In Rifts Earth, he's got MDC because all that ambient energy turns him into an MDC being.

...snip

A char with the Invulnerability super ability does not become MDC.

Their power creates, in Effect, a MDC Force Field around them in a MDC setting. This catches the MD attacks from magic, psionics, and other things that the char is not invulnerable to. So the char that is shrugging off the railgun rounds and lasers does not go !POP! when hit by a fire bolt or mind bolt or a TK-force bolt TW/tech magic rifle/pistol.

.... wut?

On Rifts Earth, add the Hit Points and S.D.C. together and that's the number of M.D.C. Regenerates 1D6x10 M.D.C. every minute (4 melee rounds). Gases, drugs, chemicals, poisons, toxins and radiation will affect the invulnerable person, but are reduced to half their usual potency (half damage, duration, effect). The character is only, truly, vulnerable to psionics, magic, and magic weapons, all of which have full effect. Also add 1D6 to the P.E. and 1D4 to the P.S. attribute and +20% to save vs coma/death (this is in addition to any P.E. bonus). The character's punches do 1D6 M.D. and kicks 2D6 M.D. All other aspects of the power remain unchanged.

So... where is this super special force field mentioned again?

Oh, your headcanon.

Gotcha.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Erp....

Was thinking of the Invulnerability spell.*shrugs*

[dreicunan]

Erp....

Was thinking of the Invulnerability spell.*shrugs*

Happens to all of us.

[Killer Cyborg]

Erp....

Was thinking of the Invulnerability spell.*shrugs*