Any way to get auto-dodge as a cyborg?

[drazool]

I've dug around fairly extensively, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Any ideas?

[Ed-Zero]

Wrap a juicer harness around your brain?

[ShadowLogan]

Take Hand to Hand: Commando (or one of the HTHs in WB8 Japan).

Otherwise you're likely going to need to invent the hardware. Kittani power armor tend to have Auto-Dodge, so if they had a tech cyborg frame(s) they might have AD to, though I don't think Kittani have Cyborg Frames.

[DhAkael]

Funny thing; ARCHIE-3 supposedly has CRAZY / Juicer androids, but NO auto-dodge... ditto for the Shemarrian Berserker caste.
We have ninja borgs, assassin borgs, Human-like borgs... no auto-dodge.
Conclusion; Kevin Siembiada trying to be "ballanced". *gags on hyprocrisy*

Good rule of thumb if you WANT to have a borg or bot be able to auto dodge... just say they can but have it as "naked dice" re; no bonuses BUT you can dodge as much as you want. Alternately, make up a new cyber system, assaign a cost to it, and have it tied to the PP bonus only.

Just some suggestions if you don't wanna go the whole H.t.H. skill route.

[Shark_Force]

hmmm.... there is at least one spell that can allow actual auto-dodge (for a *very* short time), and some that allow auto-parry (sometimes with limited or no bonuses) against ranged attacks which is sufficiently similar mechanically that it might work for you. of course, being a 'borg you'll need someone else to cast them on you, so not exactly self-contained.

[The Beast]

Be an AbM Wasp. They get auto dodge while flying.

[kaid]

I can't recall seeing any cyborgs with auto dodge other than if you can get one with HtH commando. With the sovietski book coming there should be a whole lot of cyborg goodies to be had there although there units are less ninja like dodging units and more big and burly and just ignoring incoming fire while wrecking things.

[eliakon]

Well one thing is that until WB 11 Auto-Dodge was basically the exclusive province of the Juicer and handful of amazing exceptions. It was seen as an awe inspiring ability and for the most part was the signature class ability of the Juicer to represent their blinding speed, reaction times and heightened senses. As such things like SB1, WB8, WB9 and the like didn't have anything with Auto Dodge.

Now it is basically routine with virtually every PC group having two or three people with an Auto-Dodge, often with rather high bonuses to it to boot.
I would say that if your group is fine with it, and your GM allows it just figure out something that works for your table and run with it. Perhaps a bionic version of the Eugenic implant from PU2 or something.

[kaid]

Auto dodge is still pretty rare overall. There are some power armor suites and lemurian armors that grant it but typically at really low modifier levels and it is hard to raise modifier as only +auto dodge stuff works.

Hand to hand commando is more common now but it still is not available for most OCC.

I am curious what occ you are seeing that have really modifiers to auto dodge that are not juicers/crazies.

[taalismn]

W Perhaps a bionic version of the Eugenic implant from PU2 or something.

Full body motion detection/threat alert system tired to a minor AI reflex booster that spasms you hopefully out of the way of danger.

[eliakon]

Auto dodge is still pretty rare overall. There are some power armor suites and lemurian armors that grant it but typically at really low modifier levels and it is hard to raise modifier as only +auto dodge stuff works.

Hand to hand commando is more common now but it still is not available for most OCC.

I am curious what occ you are seeing that have really modifiers to auto dodge that are not juicers/crazies.

Just in Rifts right? And not megaverse wide? lets see, off the top of my head we have:
-Cyber-Knights get it at level 5 vs tech
-Crazies get it now
-A huge array of super powers and power categories get it (which is relevant as the options for Super Powers are creeping more and more into the game)
-H2H Akido offers it
-H2H Dog Boxing, Drunken Style Kung Fu both have it
-There are at least one spell that offers it (Superhuman Agility).
-AT Training Close Quarters Combat (which is NOT limited to CS soldiers) offers H2H Commando to anyone that takes it.
-And of course the number of classes that can take the various special H2H skills is increasing.


I'm pretty sure I missed some, but that is what I could think of off the top of my head.

[taalismn]

[q
-H2H Akido offers it.

Thanks...I too was looking for a good martial arts style for a pacifistic cyberhumanoid cyborg, and was looking to dig through N&SS and Mystic China looking for something appropriate and I saw this.....
Thanks for saving me the effort!

[eliakon]

[q
-H2H Akido offers it.

Thanks...I too was looking for a good martial arts style for a pacifistic cyberhumanoid cyborg, and was looking to dig through N&SS and Mystic China looking for something appropriate and I saw this.....
Thanks for saving me the effort!

Your welcome, glad to have been of help.

[Axelmania]

Well one thing is that until WB 11 Auto-Dodge was basically the exclusive province of the Juicer and handful of amazing exceptions.

Shifters had easy access via pacts, just needed Metamorphosis Insect as a chosen spell.

[drazool]

Thanks for all of the answers, folks! I really appreciate it. I was looking for a legit in-the-books way to give an NPC auto-dodge. It's easy enough to just invent a bionic/cybernetic to provide the ability. It's worth noting that I will be running with a house-ruled version of the ranged dodging rules. When attempting to dodge gunfire, you can attempt it with no penalty if the attacker is within 100 feet, or more if you have some form of enhanced eyesight, and -10 if you're even aware of the attack if the attacker is further away.

In my mind, dodging these attacks is more about moving away from where the gun is pointed, and less about dodging the actual projectile. Further, I plan to allow characters to attempt to parry gunfire attacks, if the attacker is within melee range. The idea here is that the character pushes the gun away, grabs the attackers arm, etc. Of course, there's a possibility that the gun will instead hit someone behind the intended target....

[Morik]

A great bionics book and overall cool setting, get RIFTS World book 17: Warlords of Russia.

On page 82 is one of the coolest classes. REAVER ASSASSIN. They get auto-dodge and you can tailor the amount of cybernetics and bionics you want your character to have. This can change the overall play style of one R.A. to another.

From very light and psionics, all the way to heavy full conversions borgs. They work in other parts of the world as well because many of them don't have blind loyalty to the warlords they serve. (They desert)

Have fun man.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Good catch on Reaver Assassin.

I think most of us probably overlooked it because the fact that they can be Cyborgs is kind of hidden at the end of their description.

Im honestly surprised that the OPs group is using the -10 to dodge stuff; its usually the first thing a group house-rules out of existence. First group ive ever heard of that uses it. Hell, Kevin doesn't even use it.

Think maybe ill post a survey about the dodge rules for informational purposes.

[drazool]

Good catch on Reaver Assassin.

I think most of us probably overlooked it because the fact that they can be Cyborgs is kind of hidden at the end of their description.

Im honestly surprised that the OPs group is using the -10 to dodge stuff; its usually the first thing a group house-rules out of existence. First group ive ever heard of that uses it. Hell, Kevin doesn't even use it.

Think maybe ill post a survey about the dodge rules for informational purposes.

What do you mean about the -10 to dodge stuff? When I played in the past, as far as I can recall, there was no -10 to dodge gunfire rules. Basically, you had to know that the attack was coming, and you could attempt to dodge the attack. As I recall, the roll was usually with no bonuses, which sucked. The other thing that sucked was that you had to give up your next attack/action to make the dodge attempt, which is why auto-dodge was such a cool thing. Now, this game was something like 8 years ago.

Recently, I've been brushing back up on the rules, in preparation for a game I'll be running in a few months. While doing so, I discovered this -10 rule, which was totally new to me. It's possible that my GM in the past just never used the rule. I'm ambivalent about it, honestly. While I agree that dodging gunfire should be extremely difficult, by making the -10 rule, it devalues autododge immensely. Sure, you can make the attempt for free, but it only matters in a very few edge cases.

I guess my attempt at compromise was to invert the rule. Still include the possibility of dodging from longer ranges, but make it much more difficult, while keeping dodging 'up close and personal' at more even odds. Still, I'm not a super experienced palladium gm, so I will probably have to continue to tweak this.

[The Beast]

Good catch on Reaver Assassin.

I think most of us probably overlooked it because the fact that they can be Cyborgs is kind of hidden at the end of their description.

Im honestly surprised that the OPs group is using the -10 to dodge stuff; its usually the first thing a group house-rules out of existence. First group ive ever heard of that uses it. Hell, Kevin doesn't even use it.

Think maybe ill post a survey about the dodge rules for informational purposes.

What do you mean about the -10 to dodge stuff? When I played in the past, as far as I can recall, there was no -10 to dodge gunfire rules. Basically, you had to know that the attack was coming, and you could attempt to dodge the attack. As I recall, the roll was usually with no bonuses, which sucked. The other thing that sucked was that you had to give up your next attack/action to make the dodge attempt, which is why auto-dodge was such a cool thing. Now, this game was something like 8 years ago.

Recently, I've been brushing back up on the rules, in preparation for a game I'll be running in a few months. While doing so, I discovered this -10 rule, which was totally new to me. It's possible that my GM in the past just never used the rule. I'm ambivalent about it, honestly. While I agree that dodging gunfire should be extremely difficult, by making the -10 rule, it devalues autododge immensely. Sure, you can make the attempt for free, but it only matters in a very few edge cases.

I guess my attempt at compromise was to invert the rule. Still include the possibility of dodging from longer ranges, but make it much more difficult, while keeping dodging 'up close and personal' at more even odds. Still, I'm not a super experienced palladium gm, so I will probably have to continue to tweak this.

The -10 to dodge rule was introduced in one of the world books, but I forget which one (I want to say it was either 7 or 8 though).

[kaid]

Good catch on Reaver Assassin.

I think most of us probably overlooked it because the fact that they can be Cyborgs is kind of hidden at the end of their description.

Im honestly surprised that the OPs group is using the -10 to dodge stuff; its usually the first thing a group house-rules out of existence. First group ive ever heard of that uses it. Hell, Kevin doesn't even use it.

Think maybe ill post a survey about the dodge rules for informational purposes.

Things like the reaver assasin are easy to miss because almost all the warlords/sovietski occ can also be non/partial/full borgs which gives them all a lot of options.

[drazool]

Yeah, I had never even heard of the Reaver Assassin until saw the above post. Needless to say, I've rolled one up now.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Good catch on Reaver Assassin.

I think most of us probably overlooked it because the fact that they can be Cyborgs is kind of hidden at the end of their description.

Im honestly surprised that the OPs group is using the -10 to dodge stuff; its usually the first thing a group house-rules out of existence. First group ive ever heard of that uses it. Hell, Kevin doesn't even use it.

Think maybe ill post a survey about the dodge rules for informational purposes.

What do you mean about the -10 to dodge stuff? When I played in the past, as far as I can recall, there was no -10 to dodge gunfire rules.

Almost assuredly true. It came later, when people cried that gunfire wasn't dangerous enough.

Basically, you had to know that the attack was coming, and you could attempt to dodge the attack.

Yep, those were the rules presented in the RMB.

As I recall, the roll was usually with no bonuses, which sucked. The other thing that sucked was that you had to give up your next attack/action to make the dodge attempt, which is why auto-dodge was such a cool thing. Now, this game was something like 8 years ago.

The "no bonuses" rule actually came AFTER the -10 rule if i recall correctly; there was a rather giant backlash that the -10 rule (which was actually -10 AND no bonuses in its first incarnation) was way too deadly (it was/is), and then it fluctuated in a few different publications, before being settled in RUE to what it currently is (which, honestly, im not 100% up on, as i never use it... ill have to go read it again).

Recently, I've been brushing back up on the rules, in preparation for a game I'll be running in a few months. While doing so, I discovered this -10 rule, which was totally new to me. It's possible that my GM in the past just never used the rule. I'm ambivalent about it, honestly. While I agree that dodging gunfire should be extremely difficult, by making the -10 rule, it devalues autododge immensely. Sure, you can make the attempt for free, but it only matters in a very few edge cases.

I guess my attempt at compromise was to invert the rule. Still include the possibility of dodging from longer ranges, but make it much more difficult, while keeping dodging 'up close and personal' at more even odds. Still, I'm not a super experienced palladium gm, so I will probably have to continue to tweak this.

By all means, do what works for you. Ive just never found a group that used it. It makes the game far too deadly, especially when you consider the actual likelihood of high dodge bonuses on most characters. (Seriously, when i see characters with 25+ PP attributes and three or four other attributes other than PS (which IS easy to inflate via skills) 20+ i laugh out loud. The chances of getting those stats is so small its absurd, and yet they proliferate around the tables like kudzu.)

Example: with the -10 rule (which is now currently at super close range, hadn't noticed that change):

I shoot you:

with a simple +3 to +4 to hit (not even an aimed shot), you're at an effective FOURTEEN point deficit to dodge. You ONLY get to apply your PP bonus and an OCC bonus to dodge (meaning that your chances of having relevant dodge bonuses are even lower)... so youre likely to be completely pooched. Its more beneficial to shoot guns in a melee than use melee weapons. Youre almost never likely to dodge.

Its one of the (many) problems with Palladium's current system; stacking and interleaving penalties and bonuses that pile on each other (and half of your bonuses being situational at any given moment meaning you have to keep track of your dodge bonus like six or seven different ways) in ways most people dont understand or realize.

If i do an aimed shot at close range, your chances of dodging are near-zero.

I see no reason to make it that complicated, not for game balance certainly. There is no reason to make it so that hard-earned bonuses just dont work half the time. There's already plenty of penalties involved in dodging (giving up attacks, leading to entire rounds where you take no offensive action).

The "average character" will have NO bonuses against gunfire under the current rules, barring a few OCCs that are deliberately combat-oriented (thats really all they are good at) like Juicers and Borgs that can buy/set their PP attribute and (in the case of Juicers, Crazies) get an OCC bonus.
Every dodge bonus they earn as they level up would be useless (as none of those gained from physical skills, combat skill, etc, will apply).

Its just a bad system, IMO.

That's enough highjacking of this thread, though. Ill start a poll thread about the -10 dodge rule/dodging gunfure and we can discuss it there if people want.

[eliakon]

That's enough highjacking of this thread, though. Ill start a poll thread about the -10 dodge rule/dodging gunfure and we can discuss it there if people want.

Please do, I think it would be an interesting discussion to go into depth on... and as you said this isn't the place to do it.

[Axelmania]

Any idea what happens to a cyber-knight who gets partial or full conversion?

[ShadowLogan]

Any idea what happens to a cyber-knight who gets partial or full conversion?

Assuming a Level 5+ Cyber-Knight with Zen Combat (to get the auto-dodge) and Living Cyber Armor (gained at Level 4)...

A defining restriction in the class is "never as much as partial or full bionic conversion" when discussing Cybernetics (RUE pg67), which IMHO means if they get to that level they are changing their O.C.C. Which Bionics SB pg62 indicates Zen Combat would be lost ""Any magic powers, spell casting and Special O.C.C . Abilities [...] from his previous life are gone, destroyed by the bionic conversion". I cut out the Ley Line Walker abilities used in the example. Zen Combat would be a Special O.C.C. ability.

Though the regenerating nature of the Cyber Armor at this point might cause issues with FCB.

[Zer0 Kay]

W Perhaps a bionic version of the Eugenic implant from PU2 or something.

Full body motion detection/threat alert system tired to a minor AI reflex booster that spasms you hopefully out of the way of danger.

You mean radar tied to vernier thrusters and the next step up is a phased array radar... array and the next one up has vectored thrust and the next one up uses an array of constant beam lidar or some sort of constant EM field that when broken causes the system to operate. So
1. normal radar has a sweep so there is the possibility of something getting in after the sweep has passed
2. vernier thrusters are USUALLY fixed so require multiple nozzles
3. a phased array radar, like that used on Aegis systems or on the A/NGPN-22 Precision Approach Radar don't physically move for a sweep but would require 4 sails/panels to get 360 degree visability, they can also sweep faster than the average rotating radar
4. vernier that use vectored thrust technology or just have their nozzles somehow mounted on gimbals could mount less nozzles on a body and grant greater maneuverability
5. the best detection system would be a system that was constantly present in all directions which notified when the field was broke as well as direction and speed of the incoming object

[Zer0 Kay]

[q
-H2H Akido offers it.

Thanks...I too was looking for a good martial arts style for a pacifistic cyberhumanoid cyborg, and was looking to dig through N&SS and Mystic China looking for something appropriate and I saw this.....
Thanks for saving me the effort!

Aikido is not pacifistic

[The Beast]

[q
-H2H Akido offers it.

Thanks...I too was looking for a good martial arts style for a pacifistic cyberhumanoid cyborg, and was looking to dig through N&SS and Mystic China looking for something appropriate and I saw this.....
Thanks for saving me the effort!

Aikido is not pacifistic

According to Ninjas & Superspies it is.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

[q
-H2H Akido offers it.

Thanks...I too was looking for a good martial arts style for a pacifistic cyberhumanoid cyborg, and was looking to dig through N&SS and Mystic China looking for something appropriate and I saw this.....
Thanks for saving me the effort!

Aikido is not pacifistic

According to Ninjas & Superspies it is.

I love Eric W’s work, but he wasnt always the most accurate. “An RPG says it is” is not a real strong argument.

[The Beast]

[q
-H2H Akido offers it.

Thanks...I too was looking for a good martial arts style for a pacifistic cyberhumanoid cyborg, and was looking to dig through N&SS and Mystic China looking for something appropriate and I saw this.....
Thanks for saving me the effort!

Aikido is not pacifistic

According to Ninjas & Superspies it is.

I love Eric W’s work, but he wasnt always the most accurate. “An RPG says it is” is not a real strong argument.

Whether it is or isn't in real life wasn't what I based my answer on. I based my answer on how the book defines it in the game.

[eliakon]

Aikido is not pacifistic

According to Ninjas & Superspies it is.

I love Eric W’s work, but he wasnt always the most accurate. “An RPG says it is” is not a real strong argument.

Whether it is or isn't in real life wasn't what I based my answer on. I based my answer on how the book defines it in the game.

Aikido in real life is fairly pacifistic.
It is a modern art that was designed as a synthesis of several other arts with the goal of causing minimal damage to the attacker as well, by a person who had expressed goals of minimum harm and universal pacifism. I am going to say that is about as pacifistic as it gets outside of "will not fight back at all"
The arts that were used as the basis for its creation were not pacifistic no... but Aikido itself was designed to be fairly pacifistic in nature.

[drazool]

Aikido is not pacifistic

According to Ninjas & Superspies it is.

I love Eric W’s work, but he wasnt always the most accurate. “An RPG says it is” is not a real strong argument.

Whether it is or isn't in real life wasn't what I based my answer on. I based my answer on how the book defines it in the game.

Aikido in real life is fairly pacifistic.
It is a modern art that was designed as a synthesis of several other arts with the goal of causing minimal damage to the attacker as well, by a person who had expressed goals of minimum harm and universal pacifism. I am going to say that is about as pacifistic as it gets outside of "will not fight back at all"
The arts that were used as the basis for its creation were not pacifistic no... but Aikido itself was designed to be fairly pacifistic in nature.

In an ancient BtS/N&SS fusion game I was a part of, I played a dedicated martial artist with Aikido. We were on the roof of a building when something like 15 firemen who were mind controlled cult members came running at my martial artist, axes glinting in the moonlight. My martial artist stood very close to the edge of the building... and auto-threw each and every one of them off the roof.

It was fantastic.

[Axelmania]

Hasn't the definition of partial conversion loosened over time? I seem to recall originally it was all 4 limbs replaced, reinforced spine, whereas now it's even a single limb? Thus the headhunter OCC now being partial cyborgs?

In that case, can we find a cyber-knight with a bionic limb, and speculate about his powers?

I think we can remove living cyber-armor from the equation since cyber-armor is optional judging by that Arnos NPC

[ShadowLogan]

The definition has loosened/expanded over time to "one or more of his limbs and/or organs replaced with bionic or cybernetic ones" as of RUE yes, but text also became more restrictive in RUE that Cyber-Knights w/regard to cyber/bionic augmentation "never as much as partial or full bionic conversion". IMHO this means if a CK qualifies as "partial or full bionic conversion" then they are changing OCC.

Cyber-Armor doesn't really qualify as limb/organ, but the HH in RUE suggests that anyone with even cybernetic organs could be considered a partial reconstruction borg.

[Nightmartree]

I have a great idea for an auto dodge for a cyborg! auto limb detachment, rocket head, and hoverjets attached to a motion sensor!

someone shoots a bullet at you? its going to hit your arm? well not today! *thunk* limb detaches and drops out of the way! someones gonna shoot you in the head? *Vroosh* and you now have a birds eye view! that missiles going to turn you into scrap metal?! cyborg disassembled form go! as all your limbs and body shoot off in different directions out of your control! After all...the motion sensor is the one triggering this, not you.

of course there have been some systems with bugs, like no hover system for the head *thunk*, or over sensitive motion sensors (body shoots in all directions "it was just a fly!") and we added a radio system so limbs can be remote controlled (with some training "almost there, almost there, you just gotta grab the gun at his waist" grabs "AYAYAYAYAYAYYAAYYAYA *sound of nuts cracking*"...no interns were permanently harmed in the testing of this equipment) even when the auto detach system fires. In fact more experience borg can detach and reattach a limb with the hover systems and never stop firing, running and schmoozing the ladies.

(trust me this way is much better than my first idea, contact explosives)

[Axelmania]

The definition has loosened/expanded over time to "one or more of his limbs and/or organs replaced with bionic or cybernetic ones" as of RUE yes,

RUE 74, you're right!

text also became more restrictive in RUE that Cyber-Knights w/regard to cyber/bionic augmentation "never as much as partial or full bionic conversion".

IMHO this means if a CK qualifies as "partial or full bionic conversion" then they are changing OCC.

Makes me wonder if the authors realized they were changing OCC restrictions by redefining what is partial.

CWC p 17 mentions Erin Tarn's protector has "Clock calendar, gyro-compass, and a bionic lung with gas filter and oxygen storage cell"

That's 1 organ (a lung) replaced, which seems to fulfill "one or more". Clock/compass I figure are just implants and not replacements.

SOT4's pg 14 "An Erin Tarn Experience" used Thorpe as an example of the Cyber-Knight's anti-tech abilities in prose, educating the young scholar Alan Vanhook on what he can do. Ie page 18's:

Cyber-Knights gain a sort of mystical ability as they master their martial arts and grow with experience.
One such ability is a unique rapport with technology. An awareness of combat weapons and machinery.
Some believe this ability is a psychic power similar to Tele-Mechanics, but it is very different.
You see, the experienced Cyber-Knight can so tightly focus on the combat at hand, that he can reach out with his mind and senses to touch the machines around him.
He can feel the gun turret charging before it fires.
He knows when a weapon is pointed at him and when a targeting computer has him in its cross-hairs.
Likewise, he can feel a suit of power armor, robot, or 'Borg sneaking up behind him or zooming down from above.

I guess this experience might possibly have happened before Thorpe got his bionic lung? He's had it since Rifts Africa and he fights a Glitter Boy Killer... Erin appears to have returned from Africa in 103 PA according to WB 5. Anyone know what year the GBK was introduced? Pg 110 of WB10 doesn't appear to say... just that it's "new experimental" and CWC appears to be set in 105 PA, after Tarn returned from Africa.

[taalismn]

I
(trust me this way is much better than my first idea, contact explosives)

Reactive armor on a cyborg? Not recommended if you're standing in the middle of a group. Besides, it wouldn't count as an automatic dodge, but more like an automatic parry, and then only for projectile attacks.

Wanna go all-out supertech? Go phase-tech with an automated watchdog sensor system that activates if it detects an incoming attack, like radar intrusion or energy spike, and turns on a phase generator in the 'borg. 'Dodges' the cyborg by taking them out of reality and effectively sidstepping the attack.

[Zer0 Kay]

I
(trust me this way is much better than my first idea, contact explosives)

Reactive armor on a cyborg? Not recommended if you're standing in the middle of a group. Besides, it wouldn't count as an automatic dodge, but more like an automatic parry, and then only for projectile attacks.

Wanna go all-out supertech? Go phase-tech with an automated watchdog sensor system that activates if it detects an incoming attack, like radar intrusion or energy spike, and turns on a phase generator in the 'borg. 'Dodges' the cyborg by taking them out of reality and effectively sidstepping the attack.

What if it is armor like the Abrams where the ceramic underlayer acts as reactive armor but instead of ceramic it is a reflective material or a mist that difuses beams or are you saying it wouldn't count toward melee? A punch or blade that does the same damage as a gun the armor is designed to protect against, should still set it off.

[Nightmartree]

I
(trust me this way is much better than my first idea, contact explosives)

Reactive armor on a cyborg? Not recommended if you're standing in the middle of a group. Besides, it wouldn't count as an automatic dodge, but more like an automatic parry, and then only for projectile attacks.

Wanna go all-out supertech? Go phase-tech with an automated watchdog sensor system that activates if it detects an incoming attack, like radar intrusion or energy spike, and turns on a phase generator in the 'borg. 'Dodges' the cyborg by taking them out of reality and effectively sidstepping the attack.

Pretty sure all attacks react the same to having a MD explosion intercepting them.

And I DID mention that what I finally went with is a much better idea than explosives?...well okay a much better idea if you like your allies...and some comedy, and less chance of explosive death...but I mean you lose the cool factor of "oh he hits me? I roll damage!" and then exploding everyone in that direction...I know a guy who needs this (not much different than what he does now anyway)

[Zer0 Kay]

I
(trust me this way is much better than my first idea, contact explosives)

Reactive armor on a cyborg? Not recommended if you're standing in the middle of a group. Besides, it wouldn't count as an automatic dodge, but more like an automatic parry, and then only for projectile attacks.

Wanna go all-out supertech? Go phase-tech with an automated watchdog sensor system that activates if it detects an incoming attack, like radar intrusion or energy spike, and turns on a phase generator in the 'borg. 'Dodges' the cyborg by taking them out of reality and effectively sidstepping the attack.

Pretty sure all attacks react the same to having a MD explosion intercepting them.

And I DID mention that what I finally went with is a much better idea than explosives?...well okay a much better idea if you like your allies...and some comedy, and less chance of explosive death...but I mean you lose the cool factor of "oh he hits me? I roll damage!" and then exploding everyone in that direction...I know a guy who needs this (not much different than what he does now anyway)

Pretty sure an MD laser, ion and phase weapons won't be affected by an explosion at all unless there is something in the venting to do so. Heck none should even set off reactive armor until they've already done most of their damage heck phase should set it off at all. The other problem with reactive armor is that once it is used it is gone. Reactive armor isn't going to do well against any type of attack that applies continuous damage. So though it may stop a sword by countering the strike we all know it isn't the strike of a vibroblade that does the damage but the field so though the reactive armor may counter the movement, that isn't what is doing the damage.

[Nightmartree]

Pretty sure an MD laser, ion and phase weapons won't be affected by an explosion at all unless there is something in the venting to do so. Heck none should even set off reactive armor until they've already done most of their damage heck phase should set it off at all. The other problem with reactive armor is that once it is used it is gone. Reactive armor isn't going to do well against any type of attack that applies continuous damage. So though it may stop a sword by countering the strike we all know it isn't the strike of a vibroblade that does the damage but the field so though the reactive armor may counter the movement, that isn't what is doing the damage.

Sensors react to the increases heat/energy/change of state and react by detonating the armor, thereby dispersing the heat/energy/attack away from the under armor, a laser/ion/plasma weapon may do damage if its a continuous fire...but most of the weapons are represented as a single shot, and even if say plasma was to land on the armor and set it alight, it would be blown off and do no more damage. Phase weapons i'll give you, but then again...what armor prevents phase weapons from going through it? so not really a loss. It may be more costly than merely taking a hit and damage to your armor, but if you only have a plate with one MD and a small explosive designed to blast outwards you would likely take no discernable damage, while whatever attack hits is dispersed (though less effective vs high explosives it should still reduce the damage to a certain degree). Even if a Vibro blades "movement" isn't whats doing the damage the blade itself is still physical, and explosions are a wave of mechanical energy...i'm not a scientist but isn't that pretty much what a vibro blade uses to damage? I feel like somewhere in there SOMETHING happens through the interaction of forces, and if your really worried about it use more explosives, there has to be a survivor of the explosion to swing that blade (though more expensive and dangerous, also ineffective vs ranged assaults, trade off for every thing).

Honestly for a borg a suit of reactive armor may be just fine, or as an additional layer to any suit of armor, possibly as an ablative armor? a reducing AR that trigger this effect when you hit under it. The point of it being to tank a few hits before you get to the serious armor underneath, also very handy if you GM rules that it works vs missiles (reducing a barrage to low or no damage in return for blows your whole set of reactive armor). The point of this kind of armor isn't to stand there and take continual damage, its to not take damage at all.

Also a cheaper form of armor if you have access to plenty of chemical to create explosives but only a small supply of MD materials. in fact most MD weapons have no recoil/ physical impact (as far as I recall), so a set of MD plates and SDC explosives could make an effective reactive armor vs Lasers and energy weapons. In fact even certain MD melee weapons would be rendered ineffective, because they do MD based on the item and not the wielder many people with normal strength or SDC flesh could be effected by an explosion even when there weapon does MD...though most MD beings wouldn't even notice *shrugs*

[Zer0 Kay]

Pretty sure an MD laser, ion and phase weapons won't be affected by an explosion at all unless there is something in the venting to do so. Heck none should even set off reactive armor until they've already done most of their damage heck phase should set it off at all. The other problem with reactive armor is that once it is used it is gone. Reactive armor isn't going to do well against any type of attack that applies continuous damage. So though it may stop a sword by countering the strike we all know it isn't the strike of a vibroblade that does the damage but the field so though the reactive armor may counter the movement, that isn't what is doing the damage.

Sensors react to the increases heat/energy/change of state and react by detonating the armor, thereby dispersing the heat/energy/attack away from the under armor, a laser/ion/plasma weapon may do damage if its a continuous fire...but most of the weapons are represented as a single shot, and even if say plasma was to land on the armor and set it alight, it would be blown off and do no more damage. Phase weapons i'll give you, but then again...what armor prevents phase weapons from going through it? so not really a loss. It may be more costly than merely taking a hit and damage to your armor, but if you only have a plate with one MD and a small explosive designed to blast outwards you would likely take no discernable damage, while whatever attack hits is dispersed (though less effective vs high explosives it should still reduce the damage to a certain degree). Even if a Vibro blades "movement" isn't whats doing the damage the blade itself is still physical, and explosions are a wave of mechanical energy...i'm not a scientist but isn't that pretty much what a vibro blade uses to damage? I feel like somewhere in there SOMETHING happens through the interaction of forces, and if your really worried about it use more explosives, there has to be a survivor of the explosion to swing that blade (though more expensive and dangerous, also ineffective vs ranged assaults, trade off for every thing).

Honestly for a borg a suit of reactive armor may be just fine, or as an additional layer to any suit of armor, possibly as an ablative armor? a reducing AR that trigger this effect when you hit under it. The point of it being to tank a few hits before you get to the serious armor underneath, also very handy if you GM rules that it works vs missiles (reducing a barrage to low or no damage in return for blows your whole set of reactive armor). The point of this kind of armor isn't to stand there and take continual damage, its to not take damage at all.

Also a cheaper form of armor if you have access to plenty of chemical to create explosives but only a small supply of MD materials. in fact most MD weapons have no recoil/ physical impact (as far as I recall), so a set of MD plates and SDC explosives could make an effective reactive armor vs Lasers and energy weapons. In fact even certain MD melee weapons would be rendered ineffective, because they do MD based on the item and not the wielder many people with normal strength or SDC flesh could be effected by an explosion even when there weapon does MD...though most MD beings wouldn't even notice *shrugs*

Living armor should stop phase weapons from going through it. There is no choice on whether reactive armor is ablative or not, it is by nature ablative. The forces required to counter projectiles going fast enough to cause M.D. would mean explosives large enough to knock the borg around. Can just imagine the fine tuning borg is shot borg flies back strikes a plate on the ground and humorous chain reaction ensues.

[eliakon]

I would just like to point out that reactive armor...
...is really no less absurd here than MD weapons.
A close miss from a MD plasma weapon should kill everything with in dozens of feet simply due to super heating the air.
Particle beams will cause secondary radiation hazards in metal struck.
At the energy levels presented nothing is going to 'reflect' a laser it will simply burn a hole in it
And the list goes on.

Just chalk it up to more rubber science and roll with it if its fun for you.

[taalismn]

That's why I have reactive gerbil armor.....the flying little rodents soak up phase and energy blasts. Ablative cavy armor is related. Against predators, especially feline predators, there's a chance of decoying them away from the mounting vehicle. And, in a tight spot, they serve as emergency rations.

[Zer0 Kay]

That's why I have reactive gerbil armor.....the flying little rodents soak up phase and energy blasts. Ablative cavy armor is related. Against predators, especially feline predators, there's a chance of decoying them away from the mounting vehicle. And, in a tight spot, they serve as emergency rations.

Is that a Shemarian item?