Bonuses to Vehicle Dodge?

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Hotrod
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Bonuses to Vehicle Dodge?

Unread post by Hotrod »

The Combat Driving skill grants a +2 to dodge when driving. Is this in addition to bonuses from high P.P., hand-to-hand skill, and other dodge bonuses, or is it a simple flat bonus to a roll that is otherwise unmodified?

I can see arguments for it either way. On my Bandit Generator's 2nd page, I combined the dodge bonuses, but on my Psi-Stalker Generator's 2nd page, I did not. I didn't even realize the inconsistency of my own approach until just now, the RUE text seems unclear, and I could see a good argument for interpreting things either way.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Hotrod on Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Far as I can tell, is that vehicle combat maneuvers are done with just the nat. die roll and whatever bonuses are gained though combat vehicle control skills.

I would exclude a char's hand to hand bonuses. Different sort of training.
PP bonus might be applicable.

'Unclear text' is "Par for the Cours" for PB gamebooks. *shrugs*
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Hotrod
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by Hotrod »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Far as I can tell, is that vehicle combat maneuvers are done with just the nat. die roll and whatever bonuses are gained though combat vehicle control skills.

I would exclude a char's hand to hand bonuses. Different sort of training.
PP bonus might be applicable.

'Unclear text' is "Par for the Cours" for PB gamebooks. *shrugs*


The argument in my head for including it is that things like reflexes and hand-eye coordination matter when driving vehicles. Also, it makes sense that an experienced combat driver would be better at avoiding fire than a novice, and using hand-to-hand dodge bonuses enables that progression. Finally, many lighter and faster vehicles are capable of accelerations that humans can't do.

The argument in my head against including it is that driving involves fundamentally different movements than fighting hand-to-hand. Also, I prefer to default to lower bonuses when I put these NPC generators together, but that's more of a personal bias than an objective reason. Finally, it should be harder, not easier, to avoid getting shot whilst driving a truck than walking around on foot.

In either case, it seems odd that a motorcycle driver would get the same bonus to dodge as a hovertrain driver.

It's times like this that I miss the old Star Wars D6 system; it handled so many of these mechanics issues with an elegant simplicity, and you could make a new character from scratch in five minutes on half a page. It's such a shame that West End Games went belly up.
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guardiandashi
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by guardiandashi »

Hotrod wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Far as I can tell, is that vehicle combat maneuvers are done with just the nat. die roll and whatever bonuses are gained though combat vehicle control skills.

I would exclude a char's hand to hand bonuses. Different sort of training.
PP bonus might be applicable.

'Unclear text' is "Par for the Cours" for PB gamebooks. *shrugs*


The argument in my head for including it is that things like reflexes and hand-eye coordination matter when driving vehicles. Also, it makes sense that an experienced combat driver would be better at avoiding fire than a novice, and using hand-to-hand dodge bonuses enables that progression. Finally, many lighter and faster vehicles are capable of accelerations that humans can't do.

The argument in my head against including it is that driving involves fundamentally different movements than fighting hand-to-hand. Also, I prefer to default to lower bonuses when I put these NPC generators together, but that's more of a personal bias than an objective reason. Finally, it should be harder, not easier, to avoid getting shot whilst driving a truck than walking around on foot.

In either case, it seems odd that a motorcycle driver would get the same bonus to dodge as a hovertrain driver.

It's times like this that I miss the old Star Wars D6 system; it handled so many of these mechanics issues with an elegant simplicity, and you could make a new character from scratch in five minutes on half a page. It's such a shame that West End Games went belly up.

when I looked a year or 2 ago weg was still around, they are no longer making star wars stuff because they lost the license. lookup WEG space? I think that was it, basically their old D6 starwars game, with the star wars labels/names scrubbed off, and generic ones used instead.
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Hotrod
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by Hotrod »

guardiandashi wrote:(snip)
when I looked a year or 2 ago weg was still around, they are no longer making star wars stuff because they lost the license. lookup WEG space? I think that was it, basically their old D6 starwars game, with the star wars labels/names scrubbed off, and generic ones used instead.

They got broken up and their properties were sold off to different companies. D6 Space is still out there, and Septimus (written by Bill Coffin) is available as a free download on DriveThruRPG.
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by Prysus »

Greetings and Salutations. I know there are some Vehicle Combat Rules in N&S and HU2, but not sure if they're in Rifts (and since I play primarily PF, I don't know what those rules are off the top of my head). And I know a Juicer (the Phaeton?) can Auto-Dodge even in a tank. While not exactly the same, these sources may provide clues. If no one has checked by then, and I remember, I'll look when I get home. Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by Shamrock 'Slinger »

I took a look through Heroes Unlimited's Combat Driving rules and couldn't find anything.

I've allowed Physical Prowess bonuses before since it makes sense that someone who has good reflexes would be adept at vehicle maneuvering as well.
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by The Beast »

HU2, page 85 states that vehicles have no dodge bonus against firearms due to size and maneuverability, but they can dodge attacks from other vehicles. It also states that strike rolls are exactly like ordinary rolls to strike. So I'd go with that the bonus is either added to whatever bonus is allowed by additional skills, powers, and/or abilities, or just a straight +2. It's going to depend on who's driving.
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Hotrod
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Re: Combat Driving and Vehicle Dodge

Unread post by Hotrod »

The Beast wrote:HU2, page 85 states that vehicles have no dodge bonus against firearms due to size and maneuverability, but they can dodge attacks from other vehicles. It also states that strike rolls are exactly like ordinary rolls to strike. So I'd go with that the bonus is either added to whatever bonus is allowed by additional skills, powers, and/or abilities, or just a straight +2. It's going to depend on who's driving.


Ok, I think I have a justifiable rationale for selecting the "throw in all dodge bonuses" option. Robots are generally defined by having their pilots sitting at consoles, not "wearing" the robot. However, Robot Combat skills are in addition to hand-to-hand skills. If hand-to-hand skills can be translated through console controls and applied to a robot, then it seems logical that one's proficiency at dodging should translate through the vehicle one controls.

So unless Kevin comes out and states otherwise, I'll add hand-to-hand bonuses to the +2, which seems like a more interesting and fun option. The flat +2 bonus seems a bit dull to me, and I like the idea of having experienced drivers that are crazy good at what they do. Dodge generally involves judging distances/angles and well-honed reflexes. It seem reasonable that one could develop those further with skills that improve one's ability to dodge in hand to hand.

If a user of the NPC generator disagrees, they can always adjust it themselves. Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful replies.
Hotrod
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