Supernatural contract with good beings

[satinekarenina]

My character is required to make a contract with a supernatural being. She doesn't want to bargain with a demon, and I have no clue what to offer a good aligned supernatural, let alone what to summon. Can anyone help me?

[Mack]

Working from memory here... Have her contact Isis, one of the Egyptian gods of light and the force behind the Knights of the White Rose in Madhaven.

[satinekarenina]

Thanks but what can I offer them for a pact? That as a level 9 is convincing?

[Mack]

To live a Principled / Scroupolous life and fight evil. Same concept as a Witch's pact, but for good.

[satinekarenina]

So I am not looking for a patron/link. I need to make a contract woth something. I.e. The other shifter has a contract with a gargoyle lord to serve him in exchange for the power to rule his own army

[TeeAychEeMarchHare]

Maybe a contract to destroy a very specific evil being or monster? With some kind of conditions, of course. The demon has to be slain with this certain enchanted dagger, and this gem must be thrust into the wound in order to capture the demon's essence/soul so that it can be permanently destroyed. Something like that anyway.

[eliakon]

Look at the Witch pacts but invert them.
You could vow to bring the worship of the god to Rifts Earth
You could vow to destroy the church of one of their enemies
You could vow to help teach people how to be read and farm and help restore civilization.
You could vow to help eradicate the spread of Necromancy
You could vow to recover the lost McGuffin

[glitterboy2098]

what OCC is involved?

IIRC Shifters have a list of generic pact-type options to them, including good aligned stuff. these are more "patron" type stuff though.
ah, here it is. RUE, pg124. link to the supernatural. the shifter agrees to serve a supernatural being in exchange for some extra power.

options listed there are:
Demons
Gods of Darkness
Warrior Gods
Gods of magic
Nature Spirits/Deities

the deities ones would benefit from having CB2 pantheons, PF: dragons and gods, and the other books with deities described, but there are good aligned warrior gods, gods of magic, and nature gods around.

one thing to remember with deities and similarly powerful beings is that they have the advantage in the negotiations.. they are the one offering power and assistance, you are just the one asking for it. so while you can make your own suggestion as to what you can do for them, they'll have their own ideas as to what makes for a fair trade.
just proselytizing in their name or working to improve the lives around you probably wouldn't get you much. after all, you can do all that without any power boost or protection on their part.
but agreeing to take a quest to defeat the plot of one of their enemies? or defend an enclave of their worshipers from a great danger? or agreeing to become their agent on your world, and devoting your life to doing all of the above whenever needed (up to and including being yanked elsewhere in the megaverse at times?)
that would be worth a lot to a deity.

[satinekarenina]

The occ involved is a biomancer

[eliakon]

The occ involved is a biomancer

Ummm
Can you give us a bit of background here?
This doesn't sound like a normal game background (Biomancers can't normally make supernatural contracts, let alone be required to).
This may be why the answers provided might not be meshing with what your looking for.
What is the reason for this contract? Why do you have to make it? Who is going to be doing the contacting? Do others in the group/game (PC or NPC) have to make this contract too?
I'm at a loss here.

[satinekarenina]

So essentially she is cross classing into a shifter by learning from one. Her next lesson will be after she makes a contract with a supernatural being. Since I know next to nothing about pacts and contracts, I have no idea how to make one or with what. The only examples I have are from another game where he has a contract with a brekshal and a gargoyle lord

[Mack]

So I am not looking for a patron/link. I need to make a contract woth something. I.e. The other shifter has a contract with a gargoyle lord to serve him in exchange for the power to rule his own army

So you're looking for a powerful minion to "serve" you, but it needs to have a good alignment to match yours. Right?

I'll see what I can dig up for a "good" minion. As for what to offer... you offer them the chance to explore a new world (Rifts Earth), the opportunity to defeat evil critters, protect the innocent, dig water wells for orphaned Nuns, salve hangnails...

[glitterboy2098]

South American-type biomancer or Lemurian-type Biomancer? and what race?

because shifters can try to guide their contacting, and in this sort of case i could see them trying to contact a deity they know of.. so in the South American case it might be one of the Inca deities for example. while in the Lemurian case there could be any number of dieties they might know about.

So I am not looking for a patron/link. I need to make a contract woth something. I.e. The other shifter has a contract with a gargoyle lord to serve him in exchange for the power to rule his own army

So you're looking for a powerful minion to "serve" you, but it needs to have a good alignment to match yours. Right?

As others have mentioned, that kind of contract/pact is typically limited to Shifters, but we'll set that aside for the moment. (FYI - I would think a Gargoyle Lord is a too strong for a Shifter to control, but that's just me and I don't know what your GM considers reasonable.)

I'll see what I can dig up for a "good" minion.

actually if you read it again, you'll notice the shifter in question does not have a gargoyle lord as a minion, but as a patron. though i'm not sure gargoyle lords count as powerful enough to be the giver on the link.. Demon lords can, but those are deity level beings, while a Gargoyle Lord is just the most powerful of a sub-demon class, barely equal to a regular demon in power and status.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As per RUE the 'Link to the SN' is an optional power. If you don't want it you don't have to have it.
✇If the char is a SA biomancer, I might as a GM rule that any link that was made would interfere with the biomancer magic. But if you do not plan of playing this char with any other GM I wouldn't worry about this possibility.

There are examples of shifter pacts in the RUE shifter.
Other pact makers are (off the top of my head) the witch (PF2MB), hidden witch/gypsy witch (RWB18).

Other granted magic users are warlocks & priests (PF2MB), and some mystically bestowed (HU2MB).

[glitterboy2098]

yes it is optional. but it makes for a fun narrative addition.. especially in this case, where the character is multiclassing and learning how to be a shifter.

from the description, it sounds like the character's instructor is insisting on the character taking that option, which should make for some fun RP as the character attempts to contact powerful beings, and figure out if they want to take the offers they get.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Another option I just thought of is not to choose now and leave the option open to being filled during gameplay. Since it is optional, you do have the option of 'not now--maybe later'.

[The Beast]

Based from what I've read, try seeing if your GM will allow a Millennium Tree as your patron. They're good (with the exception of the German one) and are plants, so a biomancer shouldn't have an issue with them.

[satinekarenina]

So let me clarify. I am not looking for a patron but a demon/being to make a deal with to serve me. I know what I will want him to do, but I don't know what to offer in return for a simple pact. I also don't have a very high MA, so a battle of wills will probably fail. I am a scrupulous character, so I am really struggling with shifter magic.

[Library Ogre]

So let me clarify. I am not looking for a patron but a demon/being to make a deal with to serve me. I know what I will want him to do, but I don't know what to offer in return for a simple pact. I also don't have a very high MA, so a battle of wills will probably fail. I am a scrupulous character, so I am really struggling with shifter magic.

So, you're essentially looking into an exchange of favors. "I have need of a powerful supernatural being to do a task. I am unable and/or unwilling to compel service, so I need something to offer."

And then, you start looking at "What can I offer that they'll be interested in?" While some might demand a long service, if you're asking for a simple favor, they might be willing to accept a favor in return... but one that will probably cost you time (though it might also benefit you in the long run).

Things they might demand:
Invent a spell to do something and share it. Invent a spell to cure cancer, or a wizard version of the various plant fertility spells from Earth Warlock magic. Something that will improve other people's lives.
Build something that will help people... might be a hospital. Might be a well. If you're a techno-wizard, it may be a ley-line driven water pump that creates water out of nothing.
Take out a foe that they can't face (like, another summoner who has some sort of protection against angels)
Save someone from a place they can't go (i.e. free a captive angel or warrior of light)

There's also the Atlas solution... they are currently doing a task. If they're going to help you, you need to take up the task while they are doing your favor. "I am guarding the Tomb of the Ancient Demon Lord Acba! He must be guarded lest he awakens and destroy the world! While I'm rescuing your kitten from a tree, you must ensure that the great demon LKGsk gsmdgw ' does not seek to awaken his master!"

[drewkitty ~..~]

So let me clarify. I am not looking for a patron but a demon/being to make a deal with to serve me. I know what I will want him to do, but I don't know what to offer in return for a simple pact. I also don't have a very high MA, so a battle of wills will probably fail. I am a scrupulous character, so I am really struggling with shifter magic.

Soo.....what you are talking about is when your char summons a SN being to do your bidding you want to know what to bargain with instead of winning a battle of wills.

As stated before: look at the types of pacts that are within the books.
Other things that might be on the table for the trade is a service for service agreement. As ti the details...that is between you and the GM. And this could take up a whole session doing the haggling, so the GM might want to run a extra session just for your char to haggle the pact out.
Before hand you might want to write out what your char would do/trade with and wouldn't do/give away.

[eliakon]

Spirits of Light are powerful supernatural beings...
Interestingly the Guardians from Nightbane are also 'creatures of light' as are the Athanos
And they are supernatural beings AND they are subject to the spell "call creatures of light"
Thus it is perfectly plausible for you to summon one of them via your desire to "Bring me a creature of Light" and then he/she/it might be willing to negotiate with you. Especially since the more pragmatic ones might be of the opinion that their world (the Nightbane one) is basically a lost cause...with out outside aid.
So they will aid you, they wont even force a will war or anything. All you have to do is swear that you will do everything in your power to arrange for aid from the gods of Light (or whomever) to stop the Nightlords...

[taalismn]

[

There's also the Atlas solution... they are currently doing a task. If they're going to help you, you need to take up the task while they are doing your favor. "I am guarding the Tomb of the Ancient Demon Lord Acba! He must be guarded lest he awakens and destroy the world! While I'm rescuing your kitten from a tree, you must ensure that the great demon LKGsk gsmdgw ' does not seek to awaken his master!"

"Here; protect this rune sword...it's got an evil soul that will try to corrupt you. It's also sought after by several factions of evil that will try to take it from you, including one that wants to free the evil nasty trapped inside the weapon. You do this for me, I'll see about swinging you more of my time when I can. Still want to make a contract?"


This whole task is just a test to see if the character is worth the entity's time. Unbeknownst to any of the parties, the rune weapon's been boobytrapped so that if the mortal guarding it is turned, or otherwise loses it to the evil opposition, the area gets mystically nuked...If the mortal's lacking, well, one less weak mind to worry about, and hopefully a whole bunch of nasties got the Smite.

...Yeah, just because you're a GOOD entity doesn't mean you can't be a pragmatic bastard as well.

[Mack]

So let me clarify. I am not looking for a patron but a demon/being to make a deal with to serve me. I know what I will want him to do, but I don't know what to offer in return for a simple pact. I also don't have a very high MA, so a battle of wills will probably fail. I am a scrupulous character, so I am really struggling with shifter magic.

So let's take a different tack... suppose out there in the Megaverse there's Gargolyte (a little fella) with a Principled alignment who's constantly picked on, belittled, and abused by his nefarious brethren. And then one day a message through the ether pops in his mind, and a connection is made with kindly Shifter who can rescue him from his horrid circumstance. The little fella jumps at the opportunity to serve and follow someone who will honestly care for him as a brother and not as an unwanted pet. And thus, a lasting friendship is born. And out of all the trillions of beings in the Megaverse, how did these two kindred souls find one another? That is an answer held only by the Gods of Light themselves...

[glitterboy2098]

you know, if the Gm wanted to be cruel, she could end up contacting Billy Bob Blyncress

[taalismn]

you know, if the Gm wanted to be cruel, she could end up contacting Billy Bob Blyncress

"All you gotta do is carry my luggage on a little vacation trip I'm taking!"

-Said luggage consisting of a truckload of magical items, on a jaunt through the heart of scenic Chi-Town.....

[satinekarenina]

So let me clarify. I am not looking for a patron but a demon/being to make a deal with to serve me. I know what I will want him to do, but I don't know what to offer in return for a simple pact. I also don't have a very high MA, so a battle of wills will probably fail. I am a scrupulous character, so I am really struggling with shifter magic.

So let's take a different tack... suppose out there in the Megaverse there's Gargolyte (a little fella) with a Principled alignment who's constantly picked on, belittled, and abused by his nefarious brethren. And then one day a message through the ether pops in his mind, and a connection is made with kindly Shifter who can rescue him from his horrid circumstance. The little fella jumps at the opportunity to serve and follow someone who will honestly care for him as a brother and not as an unwanted pet. And thus, a lasting friendship is born. And out of all the trillions of beings in the Megaverse, how did these two kindred souls find one another? That is an answer held only by the Gods of Light themselves...

I LOVE this idea!!!! I wonder if I could get my GM to go for it.... now how to pitch that to the GM...

[Jorick]

Biomancy is very rare. You could teach it. A Spirit of Light, a godling, or a dragon, etc. might very much like the knowledge.

[Shark_Force]

Biomancy is very rare. You could teach it. A Spirit of Light, a godling, or a dragon, etc. might very much like the knowledge.

honestly, as a biomancer you could offer a LOT to any good being from the nightbane dimension. starting with "magic weapons that they can bring back through the mirrorwall".

[glitterboy2098]

Perhaps, while looking for a being to serve you, the contact gets highjacked by a deity, which offers a deal. In exchange for knowledge of biomancy, it will loan you one of its servants/minions (a minor spirit of light or an intelligent good aligned 'monster') and whatever mark or authority that would identify you with it in the eyes of its followers.

You would teach biomancy to the servant as a proxy, basically the deity observing through it.


Of course this opens up all sorts of adventure options.

[Axelmania]

Summon fairies, pay them with cheap candy? Anyone you make contracts with do not could t againdt your battle of wills level limit right? Or was that just summoners?

[eliakon]

Biomancy is very rare. You could teach it. A Spirit of Light, a godling, or a dragon, etc. might very much like the knowledge.

honestly, as a biomancer you could offer a LOT to any good being from the nightbane dimension. starting with "magic weapons that they can bring back through the mirrorwall".

...
*makes a few mental connections*
Muhahahahahahhha
Errr
Ahem
I'm fine now
Really. No, this is brilliant. It opens up a brilliant idea for me, and it gives me a sudden new use for Guardians and Lemuria in a game.

[eliakon]

As a thought...
There was a previous thread about summoning minions for a good caster and what sort of things can you summon with "Summon Lesser Being" that are good.
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=153476&hilit=summoning
The advice from there I think would still hold true here...
...and that is to remember that a lot of the supernatural races of good...
...are not written up as monsters, or races. But as classes. Sea Titans and Monster Hunters and Guardians are all supernatural beings. So are Undead Slayers. And Apoks. And...

[zexsis]

If this is for the shifter occ making a contract with a being, then heres a list I made for my own. The trouble with the summoning part of shifters actually lies in a inconsistency with the term supernatural creature.. this will require heavy interpretation on your part as you will see some of these things could be far to unbalancing. ALL of the following have been listed as being supernatural beings. PERSONALLY I like to go with gargoyles and broadkil because you can find some of them that are unprincipled or anarchist.. so NOT evil. Their is some mention that they must be immortal beings to be considered for this but honestly Id recommend more leeway.. or perhaps use the phase world race creator table and roll up some that are on par with the demons ranging the whole gammot from sub demons all the way up to greaters.

Good beings available
RCCs
spirits of light (conversion book i think it was)
amazons(south america 1, ?able)
Seeker (Mindwerks)
Seljuk (phase world)
Lycanmorph(mindworks)
Ugakwa Explorer(mindwerks)
(all)Werebeasts(vamp kingdoms & dark conversions)- sup. nat. predator, ? if usable.
Ramen (Africa)
Crocodillian (Africa)
Ki-Lin (conversion book 1)
Cosmo-knights (phase world)
Mokoloi (australia) sup. nat. str, no designation, nor creature of magic designation
Mega Juicer (juicer uprising)- minor supernatural creature on magic rich planets like Earth (dragon juicer is not considered a sup. nat. creature, he takes a potion that gives powers, mega juicers body is fused with his latent ISP and enhanced)
Rune Warrior (australia 2)
1st & 2nd stage Prometheans(phase world)
Monro (phase world sourcebook)
Enlightened Demon(china 2-?able based on the description of supernatural creature in conversion book, ie beings more of instinct not learning(how are cosmo knights and prometheans supernatural creatures then))
Pheonixi(africa.. "a supernatural creature.. of magic".. confusing as hell)
Fox Spirit(mystic china)
Monro(phase world sourcebook)
Anti-monster (south america 1)
The Nightbane(nightbane)
Sowki(mindwerks)
Silhouette, Seljuk, Draconid, Phantom(phase world-these are questionable)

[Killer Cyborg]

Personally, I don't think that Shifters should necessarily have a choice of who offers them a connection, nor necessarily even sure knowledge of who the entity is.
It's like a mystical Craigslist of soul-bonding; buyer beware.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Biomancy is very rare. You could teach it. A Spirit of Light, a godling, or a dragon, etc. might very much like the knowledge.

Two civilaztions with tens of millions of people in them built completely on Biomancy tends to give the lie tomthat thought.

Common? No. Rare? Also no.

[glitterboy2098]

it is however hard to find outside those two civilizations, because it is jealously guarded. one of the two civ's is geographically isolated inside a jungle, with little outside contact, and the other is a secretive civilization that skipped forwards in time 10,000 years, giving little chance for anyone to even make contact with them. when they were first active the pantheons were still fairly new to earth, if there yet at all.. and then they hid away for 10,000 years, only reemerging within the previous couple hundred years.

[eliakon]

Biomancy is very rare. You could teach it. A Spirit of Light, a godling, or a dragon, etc. might very much like the knowledge.

Two civilaztions with tens of millions of people in them built completely on Biomancy tends to give the lie tomthat thought.

Common? No. Rare? Also no.

I dunno.
When something is described as as "Virtually unknown throughout most of the Megaverse" (South America page 61)
And
"Biomancy is unknown in most parts of the Megaverse. The only known dimensions where it has been found in abundance are the Green World from which the jungle elves migrated, and now, Rifts Earth which has been influenced by the elves." (I will concede this was before Lemuria retconned Biomancy as being also a Lemurian art... though it is still quite possible that the Lemurians were associated with the Green World in some way before they went all Dr. Frankenstein with their Biomancy)

Those sound like text book examples of "something that is rare"
I mean if most of the Megaverse doesn't know of it (which is what unknown means)...

2 civilizations in our books sounds like a lot...
...but we have a biased sample set.
There are BILLIONS of civilizations in the Megaverse... and of those billions and billions of civilizations only a tiny few have access to Biomancy. It is indeed very rare.
Just like Tattoo magic is rare, or Rune magic is rare, even though they show up all the time in books.

[Blue_Lion]

So I am not looking for a patron/link. I need to make a contract woth something. I.e. The other shifter has a contract with a gargoyle lord to serve him in exchange for the power to rule his own army

So you're looking for a powerful minion to "serve" you, but it needs to have a good alignment to match yours. Right?

I'll see what I can dig up for a "good" minion. As for what to offer... you offer them the chance to explore a new world (Rifts Earth), the opportunity to defeat evil critters, protect the innocent, dig water wells for orphaned Nuns, salve hangnails...

Elemental- spirt of light(PB angels. Unrevised CB 1.)
Good would probably be more in to summon elementals, Valkyries and such.

[Blue_Lion]

Biomancy is very rare. You could teach it. A Spirit of Light, a godling, or a dragon, etc. might very much like the knowledge.

Two civilaztions with tens of millions of people in them built completely on Biomancy tends to give the lie tomthat thought.

Common? No. Rare? Also no.

Two civilizations out of 100s or thousands that are out there. Tens of millions people out of tens of trillion people out there.
Seams kind of rare to me.(Your claim is like saying that because earth has life, on plants is not rare.)
While available in those two civilizations out side of them it is vertically unknown.

So common? no But Rare? yes. (The two civilizations are outlines or the acceptation to the rule.)

[Sir_Spirit]

So essentially she is cross classing into a shifter by learning from one. Her next lesson will be after she makes a contract with a supernatural being. Since I know next to nothing about pacts and contracts, I have no idea how to make one or with what. The only examples I have are from another game where he has a contract with a brekshal and a gargoyle lord

Hmm, perhaps a good deitywould lend you a hunky warriorwho is skilled in Weapons, including energy weapons. Basically, a quiet/sexy body guard type. Whether or not your PC sleeps with him is completely up to your character. Faitly mundane example of your PC's species save for his looks. Has some magic to belp.him survive(silent armor, magic (non rune)weapon).

[kaid]

One thing to note is I don't think shifters really have that much fine tuned ability to select a patron. It is pretty clear from their description they have only really the vaguest idea so they can tell basic stuff like being of knowledge or infernal something like that but the actual who they are working with is not necessarily clear.

it is not like a priest choosing to worship a god. It is a magic user shopping their abilities around and making contact with beings of power whom they may not know or may think they know but can find out later they were wrong.

[Shark_Force]

honestly, i don't think they'd even necessarily get as much information as what kind of being they're making a deal with. only what they could infer from what the being offers (so they'd know they're getting some spells and PPE, but not who is giving it necessarily). and i'm sure there will be plenty of evil beings that will not be up-front about it.

[Axelmania]

Other granted magic users are warlocks & priests (PF2MB)

"Rifts Priest" O.C.C. is in CB2 as well

[Nightmartree]

You could go the dark route...delve into the mysteries of the universe and summon forth "player created good guys". If you find the PERFECT monster but its evil...rework them into a good aligned parallel race. Or if you can't find anything at all make one up and float it by your GM, you may be the only summoner in this corner of the megaverse to have contacted the ______ peoples and convinced them to aid you in your quest up your troubled world! We do after all have more than one generation table for supernaturals/races floating around and not just a few examples of what a supernatural normally looks like (though most are evil that's primarily so we have enemies...I assume).

[SolCannibal]

The angels/spirits of light from Conversion Book and Palladium would make acceptable options, i guess.

Also, the circles to summon or protect against angels also mentions them along with wing tips, and/or ki-lin, so i might be amenable to using them as good-natured supernatural minions in games. PF may also reference additional angel types that i now forget, should be said.