Stacking WP bonuses?

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Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Alrik Vas »

This was mentioned in another thread, and I'm curious what the precedents are for this sort of thing?

Targeting + knife for throwing?

blunt + shield?

I've never noticed this, always ran it as one or the other.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by dragonfett »

Targeting is supposed to stack when you make a ranged attack with Ancient Weapons, but as far as I know it's the only one that is like that.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by guardiandashi »

there are honestly only a few skills that really stack and most of them are situational.

archery/targeting stacks with wp's for ranged attacks
fencing stacks with "some" melee attacks mostly finesse based swords.
sniper, stacks with ranged weapons when you can take the time to aim
weapon systems, stacks with attacks when using a vehicles weapon systems

the thing is most of these only provide a 1-2 point strike bonus.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Alrik Vas »

guardiandashi wrote:there are honestly only a few skills that really stack and most of them are situational.

archery/targeting stacks with wp's for ranged attacks
fencing stacks with "some" melee attacks mostly finesse based swords.
sniper, stacks with ranged weapons when you can take the time to aim
weapon systems, stacks with attacks when using a vehicles weapon systems

the thing is most of these only provide a 1-2 point strike bonus.

Yes, and that was my understanding.

But the only one of those that's an actual WP is archery/targeting, right?

Sniper is a military skill, weapon systems is pilot related, fencing is a physical skill. In the thread I mentioned, about cyberknights making their psi-sword into a psi-shield, people keep mentioning stacking WP.

I didn't understand what they meant and didn't want to drag the conversation away from the subject.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by eliakon »

This is one of those perennial subjects that comes up a lot.
There is a one side that feels that all W.P.s should stack and that there should be no limit on the bonus levels provided by skills.
The other side feels that only skills that explicitly say that they stack, stack. This prevents the infamous "W.P. Sword +W.P. Large Sword + W.P. Small Sword + W.P. Katana + W.P. Wakazashi +W.P. Daisho +..." trick
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

guardiandashi wrote:there are honestly only a few skills that really stack and most of them are situational.
archery/targeting stacks with wp's for ranged attacks
fencing stacks with "some" melee attacks mostly finesse based swords.
sniper, stacks with ranged weapons when you can take the time to aim
weapon systems, stacks with attacks when using a vehicles weapon systems

Also blunt/staff, blunt/shield, fork/trident, trident/spear...

eliakon wrote:This prevents the infamous "W.P. Sword +W.P. Large Sword + W.P. Small Sword + W.P. Katana + W.P. Wakazashi +W.P. Daisho +..." trick

In fairness: large sword would only benefit the katana and small sword would only benefit the wakazashi.

Also: were we even given unique bonuses for Katana/Wakazashi/Daisho?

When I saw them in N&SS but the only WP were small/large swords, the way I read that was custom-limited WP:

1) Katana = Large Sword, but only while using Katanas, not any other large swords

2) Wakazashi = Small sword, but only while using Wakazashis, not any other small swords

3) Daisho = Katana and Wakazashi, but only while used together, has no benefit when using 1 sword alone.

At worst the only stacking problem I see is generic Sword combining with N&SS more specific size-sword skills... which is cool with me. Certainly would help address the "blunt and staff shouldn't be so awesome" complaints.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Alrik Vas »

They don't benefit at all though...i mean, the fluff argument for this, i can see as "oh well you are learning more styles and it makes you better" but mechanically the game has an example of that not working in N&SS where styles don't stack, you have to pick one to use at a time.

I honestly can't see how that would even be a discussion.

The WP daisho/katana/wakizashi stuff in N&SS i believe are weapon kata that equal the relative WP's, but only apply when using the style they were purchased for (or were given for free). Basically they gave you some free WP's, but tell you that they're only good while doing that fighting style.

but it's been a while since i read that book. Regardless of that, there's nothing i can see that would allow blunt to stack with staff, for instance. You just use one or the other.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Prysus »

Alrik Vas wrote:In the thread I mentioned, about cyberknights making their psi-sword into a psi-shield, people keep mentioning stacking WP.

I didn't understand what they meant and didn't want to drag the conversation away from the subject.

Greetings and Salutations. I'll direct you to the last thread (I think this is the most recent, but I may have missed some) here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=152436

7 pages of fun to catch up on. You should see both sides of the argument. Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Targeting + knife for throwing? The targeting WP has text allowing this to happen.

blunt + shield? There is no text allowing these to be combined. Some people will argue that they do stack, but they have not have specific text that says that any WP that are close stack with each other.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

, Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules. Martial arts forms require Katas to use WP bonuses with Form bonuses. You can only use one kata at a time.

If you don't care about Form bonuses though, katas are not required to use WP bonuses, so the "one kata" limit is irrelevant.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by guardiandashi »

Axelmania wrote:, Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules. Martial arts forms require Katas to use WP bonuses with Form bonuses. You can only use one kata at a time.

If you don't care about Form bonuses though, katas are not required to use WP bonuses, so the "one kata" limit is irrelevant.


the implied intent is stronger on the "don't stack" argument when there is also a note that wp that stack are "rare"
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Axelmania wrote:, Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules. Martial arts forms require Katas to use WP bonuses with Form bonuses. You can only use one kata at a time.

If you don't care about Form bonuses though, katas are not required to use WP bonuses, so the "one kata" limit is irrelevant.

Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules other then what was stated above.

Martial arts forms require Weapons Katas to use weapons with a MA Form.
And if the char had two forms that char would need a WK for each, for both to be able to use the same weapon.

"Kata's must always be performed for an entire melee round." is what the book says.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Freemage »

Honestly, work out with the table GM what the local ruling is. Then it's up to the GM to remember that anything the players can do, the bad guys can do, too. It's one of those things that's going to be a level playing field, regardless--you're just going to have to decide in-group if you want a heavier offensive or defensive game.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Axelmania wrote:, Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules. Martial arts forms require Katas to use WP bonuses with Form bonuses. You can only use one kata at a time.

If you don't care about Form bonuses though, katas are not required to use WP bonuses, so the "one kata" limit is irrelevant.

Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules other then what was stated above.

Martial arts forms require Weapons Katas to use weapons with a MA Form.
And if the char had two forms that char would need a WK for each, for both to be able to use the same weapon.

"Kata's must always be performed for an entire melee round." is what the book says.


I am not sure what you are disagreeing with me about.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by J_cobbers »

Here's and interesting video on staff use as compared to swords. Not that it has anything to do with this or prior discussions, on WP bonuses stacking, but as WP blunt and WP staff were central do some of the conversations, and the fact I like the guy's youtube channel I thought I'd share. He makes some interesting observations on why staff's are versatile and powerful weapons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHZKHmqa0KY

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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by satinekarenina »

I thought Archery and Targeting dont stack because of the text for targeting states:

Expertise with thrown and projectile weapons (but not bows and arrows, crossbows or guns).
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Prysus »

satinekarenina wrote:I thought Archery and Targeting dont stack because of the text for targeting states:

Expertise with thrown and projectile weapons (but not bows and arrows, crossbows or guns).

Greetings and Salutations. To clarify, Targeting (in general) tends to stack with other W.P. such as "W.P. Knife" or "W.P. Spear" for throwing.

Now we need to get to the more complicated matter that involves which edition/version you're using. I'm guessing you're using "W.P. Archery" and "W.P. Targeting" from RUE, in which case they do not stack. Pre-RUE, there was a skill "W.P. Archery and Targeting" (which is the name of one skill, and not two separate ones), which stacked with things like "W.P. Knife" as well as "W.P. Bow." In PF there's a "W.P. Archery" and "W.P. Targeting/Missile Weapons" that do stack (this is PF, so not really applicable to a Rifts specific setting, but giving a Palladium discussion as a whole). There are probably more versions. So when someone says "Archery and Targeting" (or variation thereof) they may, especially in the context of the current conversation, be referring to the skill "W.P. Archery and Targeting." Hope that clarifies some of the confusion (or maybe I just made it worse). Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Axelmania wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Axelmania wrote:, Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules. Martial arts forms require Katas to use WP bonuses with Form bonuses. You can only use one kata at a time.

If you don't care about Form bonuses though, katas are not required to use WP bonuses, so the "one kata" limit is irrelevant.

Ninjas and Superspies uses different rules other then what was stated above.

Martial arts forms require Weapons Katas to use weapons with a MA Form.
And if the char had two forms that char would need a WK for each, for both to be able to use the same weapon.

"Kata's must always be performed for an entire melee round." is what the book says.


I am not sure what you are disagreeing with me about.

All I was doing was stating what the rules actually say.

There is no rule about using not being able to use two katas at one time. Yes, for 1-5 Erik has written in a way that assumes that only one of the 1-5 katas can only be used one at a time, but it is never explicitly stated.
And WKs are written in a way that assumes that they are used 'whenever' with their MAF, without any text about how they interact with 1-5. But I would point out it does limit the char to using just one type of weapon kata in each melee round.

Even so, both katas 1-5 and WKs are limited to use with their MAF, and MAFs have to be used for a full melee round. As such the two rules nicely mesh with each other.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is no rule about using not being able to use two katas at one time. Yes, for 1-5 Erik has written in a way that assumes that only one of the 1-5 katas can only be used one at a time, but it is never explicitly stated.
And WKs are written in a way that assumes that they are used 'whenever' with their MAF, without any text about how they interact with 1-5. But I would point out it does limit the char to using just one type of weapon kata in each melee round.

Even so, both katas 1-5 and WKs are limited to use with their MAF, and MAFs have to be used for a full melee round. As such the two rules nicely mesh with each other.

122's "no problem changing from one kata to another at the beginning of a new melee round" strongly implies you cannot use two at once.

As does the earlier "lacks flexibility, it's only set up to do one thing".

If katas could be combined that would be flexible.

I do like how your take on this makes Monkey Style Kung Fu rather uber. You can combine Drunken/Lost/Tall/Stone/Wood though you would need to be level 8 (or 4 if Worldly) to get all 5.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Alrik Vas wrote:They don't benefit at all though...i mean, the fluff argument for this, i can see as "oh well you are learning more styles and it makes you better" but mechanically the game has an example of that not working in N&SS where styles don't stack, you have to pick one to use at a time.

I honestly can't see how that would even be a discussion.

The WP daisho/katana/wakizashi stuff in N&SS i believe are weapon kata that equal the relative WP's, but only apply when using the style they were purchased for (or were given for free). Basically they gave you some free WP's, but tell you that they're only good while doing that fighting style.

but it's been a while since i read that book.


Essentially correct. Kata's only work with the style that allowed you to purchase them (or gave them to you for free, as many do). N&SS is, ironically, one of Palladium's most balanced systems, where all the mechanics largely work together fairly well. Probably because Eric W modified the crap out of it.

Regardless of that, there's nothing i can see that would allow blunt to stack with staff, for instance. You just use one or the other.


There's no rule saying they dont stack, for instance, and IIRC (im not going to head to the book on this one since i agree they shouldn't stack, and a rule saying they dont is an omission, IMO) blunt says it applies to staff. So, the argument can be made, RAW, that they could stack. Again, i personally come down on the "don't do that, its an obvious oversight (as so many common-sense things are in Palladium rules)", but i can see the argument the other way as well. Doesn't say you can't, and the W.P.s in question both provide their bonuses to staves.

In the (slowly-going) rewrite im doing of the combat/skills systems (well, less the skills system and more of a pruning/condensing on that end), my rule on W.P.s that could stack is that you'll take the highest bonus for each category (say, if you had blunt and staff) - parry, strike, etc - and then add 1 for each additional proficiency that covers it. So if Staff at your level provided +3 to strike, and Blunt only provided +2, you'd take the +3 (from Staff) and add 1 (for having blunt). Gives some benefit to stacking W.P.s, but doesn't get out of hand since its unlikely that you're going to get more than an additional +1 to any given stat, because AFAIK there aren't usually 3 or more W.P.s governing one weapon. Targeting would continue to remain an exception and would say so in its description (as all exceptions should be).

Also keep in mind that the "cheese" that most people are trying to prevent is really simple: Skills that dont exist in Rifts cant be used. Period. AFAIK only Ninjas and Superspies uses the more-specific W.P.s (Large Sword, Small Sword, etc) because Eric modified the system to work that way. Because otherwise... what would stack with W.P. Sword in Rifts? Nothing. Maybe W.P. Katana if that exists in Japan (haven't read that book in a while, it may) - if your OCC even allows you to take it.


N&SS REALLY doesn't play well with the Megaversal system largely because of the changes Eric made to it. its too bad the Megaversal system (I.E. Kevin) didn't pay attention to the good stuff Eric changed and back-port it to the "newer" systems. It really does flow way better than most of the more modern games.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Nothing obvious at all about an oversight. More skill more boni.

What do you mean highest bonus? Staff is never higher.

Where it say skills native to other games are unusable? Kinoshi Kay disagree.

It isn't really that cheesey. With automatic hits 5% of the time defense bonuses lose effectiveness at a point. With simultaneous attacks bonuses are mostly of secondary importance.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Axelmania wrote:Nothing obvious at all about an oversight. More skill more boni.

What do you mean highest bonus? Staff is never higher.

Where it say skills native to other games are unusable? Kinoshi Kay disagree.

It isn't really that cheesey. With automatic hits 5% of the time defense bonuses lose effectiveness at a point. With simultaneous attacks bonuses are mostly of secondary importance.

With the way the melee combat rules are written once you have a greater bonus than +4 you hit 100% of the time unless the target defends against it. So after +4 to strike it only matters to counter a defensive move.

Personally I do not see a problem with a person that devotes 2 times the effort to master a weapon being better with it than the person that only spends the minimal effort to learn it.(As it is not hard to get +4 to melee attacks.)
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Prysus »

Blue_Lion wrote:With the way the melee combat rules are written once you have a greater bonus than +4 you hit 100% of the time unless the target defends against it. So after +4 to strike it only matters to counter a defensive move.

Greetings and Salutations. RUE introduced the rule of a Natural 1 being an automatic miss regardless of bonuses (page 346, under "Miss"). So the best you'll have is a 95% chance of rolling a successful strike (forcing an opponent to defend or be hit), and that'll occur at +3 to strike. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Also keep in mind that the "cheese" that most people are trying to prevent is really simple: Skills that dont exist in Rifts cant be used. Period. AFAIK only Ninjas and Superspies uses the more-specific W.P.s (Large Sword, Small Sword, etc) because Eric modified the system to work that way. Because otherwise... what would stack with W.P. Sword in Rifts? Nothing. Maybe W.P. Katana if that exists in Japan (haven't read that book in a while, it may) - if your OCC even allows you to take it.


I would say that unless Rifts has a WP that covers it, it would be applicable.

TMNT:revised (maybe alternate editions) does and does not use them. In the Skill listing in the main book the WPs are listed as if in Rifts w/generic catchall skills (so not using them), but if you review the NPCs you start seeing stuff that isn't in the master list (so uses them), it might be similar to N&SS (same author) and seems to go with WP: Paired selected Skill (non-HTH advancement) being chosen to apply to specific weapons. Some WPs in the NPCs that aren't on the main book skill list include (between pgs 96-99 & 106-9): WP: Diasho, WP Nunchaku (Mikie also has WP Chain), WP Blade, WP Shuriken, WP Sai, WP-PW: Sai, WP Blade, WP Ninja Bow, WP Bo Staff, WP Samurai Bow, WP No-Dachi (Large Sword). Shredder (pg105-6) has two more (WP All Ninja Weapons, which might just be for space saving and not actual skill, and WP: Suit which is called out as being "special" so I'll give these a pass)

Note: Rifts Japan does not have WP: Katana, it does have WP: Diasho as a class ability (Samurai).

Note2: Stack with WP: Sword in Rifts? Fencing for one, for all practical purposes WP: Paired (though it stacks with a lot of WP). Some classes get bonuses when using swords (and those classes have WP sword...), and Rifts Japan has HTH: Kendo that grants Sword bonuses (and it might not be unique in the book) that most classes (in Japan, since Rifts in general does not consider these region specific HTHs) have access to (w/o taking sword).
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

ShadowLogan wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Also keep in mind that the "cheese" that most people are trying to prevent is really simple: Skills that dont exist in Rifts cant be used. Period. AFAIK only Ninjas and Superspies uses the more-specific W.P.s (Large Sword, Small Sword, etc) because Eric modified the system to work that way. Because otherwise... what would stack with W.P. Sword in Rifts? Nothing. Maybe W.P. Katana if that exists in Japan (haven't read that book in a while, it may) - if your OCC even allows you to take it.


I would say that unless Rifts has a WP that covers it, it would be applicable.

TMNT:revised (maybe alternate editions) does and does not use them. In the Skill listing in the main book the WPs are listed as if in Rifts w/generic catchall skills (so not using them), but if you review the NPCs you start seeing stuff that isn't in the master list (so uses them), it might be similar to N&SS (same author) and seems to go with WP: Paired selected Skill (non-HTH advancement) being chosen to apply to specific weapons. Some WPs in the NPCs that aren't on the main book skill list include (between pgs 96-99 & 106-9): WP: Diasho, WP Nunchaku (Mikie also has WP Chain), WP Blade, WP Shuriken, WP Sai, WP-PW: Sai, WP Blade, WP Ninja Bow, WP Bo Staff, WP Samurai Bow, WP No-Dachi (Large Sword). Shredder (pg105-6) has two more (WP All Ninja Weapons, which might just be for space saving and not actual skill, and WP: Suit which is called out as being "special" so I'll give these a pass)

Note: Rifts Japan does not have WP: Katana, it does have WP: Diasho as a class ability (Samurai).

Note2: Stack with WP: Sword in Rifts? Fencing for one, for all practical purposes WP: Paired (though it stacks with a lot of WP). Some classes get bonuses when using swords (and those classes have WP sword...), and Rifts Japan has HTH: Kendo that grants Sword bonuses (and it might not be unique in the book) that most classes (in Japan, since Rifts in general does not consider these region specific HTHs) have access to (w/o taking sword).


NPCs do not have to (and should not) oney PC creation rules. They can and often do have skills and abilities that PCs can simply never gain outside of GM fiat. So, im not sure that “NPCs have these skills” works as an argument. Also, Turtles is so incompatible (largely due to its age) it might as well be a different game entirely. Unless you want borgs and Juicers with +50 to dodge or more due to high SPD.

When you really get down to it, the “Megaversal” system is a well-intentioned falsehood. They are no more inherently compatible between each other than the various World of Darkness games were (and they all use the same core system, and actually with far LESS changes between them), or the various d20 OGL games (which also use a more complete set of identical rules than most Megaversal games). See The recently released Starfinder for a good example of how two games based on the same system can be almost utterly incompatible.

Thus my statement - if it isnt in Rifts, it isnt an issue; things in other games are meaningless. If the GM -lets- you bring in other stuff, then hell have to make the decision on how it works, since there is no consistency even between various iterations of the SAME SKILLS from one game to another.
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Freemage
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Freemage »

I still say the error is the notion that one reading of the rules is 'cheesy'. If everyone is at the cheese shop already, it doesn't matter. If the cheese shop is closed to all, it still doesn't matter. It's only if one player gets to go to the cheese shop and everyone else has to stay home that there's an issue.

So, let the GM make the call, and move on with your games. Either they stack, or they do not, and both (all) sides in any given combat can be expected to make use of those same rules in their builds. The only issue arises if you bring your old character based on Assumption A to a new group where they use Assumption B. If you're aware that it's an assumption in the first place, then you can talk to the GM and say, "Hey, do you also use Assumption A?" When he says, "No, of course not, we use Assumption B in this game, like all right-thinking folks," then you respond, "Ah, how wise of you. My last group, sadly, operated under Assumption A, and I was forced to tweak my build to fit. Now that I am with other right-thinking folks, I would like the opportunity to adjust my build, in a fully rules-legal fashion, so as to properly fit the clearly superior play environment your table uses."

After that, any further discussion of the issue is all Big-Endians vs. Little-Endians, and should be treated as such.
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Axelmania
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Blue_Lion wrote:With the way the melee combat rules are written once you have a greater bonus than +4 you hit 100% of the time unless the target defends against it. So after +4 to strike it only matters to counter a defensive move.

Only if the GM doesn't generously hand out situational penalties. Surely there's got to be some for bad lighting approaching whatever the penalties for blindness are for the moment (these seem to fluctuate between books)

Also there's stuff like armor rating, whenever it applies. Or penalties to hit moving foes. Or being penalized for bio-manipulations.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Turtles is so incompatible (largely due to its age) it might as well be a different game entirely. Unless you want borgs and Juicers with +50 to dodge or more due to high SPD.

Nobody doesn't want that.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Axelmania wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:With the way the melee combat rules are written once you have a greater bonus than +4 you hit 100% of the time unless the target defends against it. So after +4 to strike it only matters to counter a defensive move.

Only if the GM doesn't generously hand out situational penalties. Surely there's got to be some for bad lighting approaching whatever the penalties for blindness are for the moment (these seem to fluctuate between books)

Also there's stuff like armor rating, whenever it applies. Or penalties to hit moving foes. Or being penalized for bio-manipulations.

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Turtles is so incompatible (largely due to its age) it might as well be a different game entirely. Unless you want borgs and Juicers with +50 to dodge or more due to high SPD.

Nobody doesn't want that.

So you think the GM job is to go out of his way to penalize players. Got it, remind me never to play in your games.

Your double negative it seams like you are saying every one wants juicers and cyborgs to be able to dodge every attack.
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Axelmania wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There is no rule about using not being able to use two katas at one time. Yes, for 1-5 Erik has written in a way that assumes that only one of the 1-5 katas can only be used one at a time, but it is never explicitly stated.
And WKs are written in a way that assumes that they are used 'whenever' with their MAF, without any text about how they interact with 1-5. But I would point out it does limit the char to using just one type of weapon kata in each melee round.

Even so, both katas 1-5 and WKs are limited to use with their MAF, and MAFs have to be used for a full melee round. As such the two rules nicely mesh with each other.

122's "no problem changing from one kata to another at the beginning of a new melee round" strongly implies you cannot use two at once.

As does the earlier "lacks flexibility, it's only set up to do one thing".

If katas could be combined that would be flexible.

I do like how your take on this makes Monkey Style Kung Fu rather uber. You can combine Drunken/Lost/Tall/Stone/Wood though you would need to be level 8 (or 4 if Worldly) to get all 5.

Then you didn't understand what I said. I will blunt it down.

There is nothing in the text that says that the WK cannot be used with the other (1-5) specialty Katas. Thus, the generalized statement that (all) katas can't be used together is false.

IF you meant the katas 1-5 can not be used together then you should said that.

And with your latest example of what you meant was not included with what was initially talked about. (And does follow what I said.) Those are MAF specific Katas. All of which are not compatible with WKs due to the inherent concepts within MAF text. But what it does clarify that you mean you want a munchkin's freedom about which bonus you apply to any specific roll/to stack them together.
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Axelmania
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Re: Stacking WP bonuses?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Blue_Lion wrote:So you think the GM job is to go out of his way to penalize players. Got it, remind me never to play in your games.

The GM's job is certainly to make realistic rulings when the game rules don't cover every minutiae of variables which should be considered. Bad lighting or footing are good reasons to have penalties.

Blue_Lion wrote:Your double negative it seams like you are saying every one wants juicers and cyborgs to be able to dodge every attack.

No because +50 to dodge is not a guaranteed dodge against natural 20s.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:And with your latest example of what you meant was not included with what was initially talked about. (And does follow what I said.) Those are MAF specific Katas. All of which are not compatible with WKs due to the inherent concepts within MAF text. But what it does clarify that you mean you want a munchkin's freedom about which bonus you apply to any specific roll/to stack them together.

This is not about what I want, but rather what can happen if you allow multiple katas to stack/overlap like that. Indeed it ends up with many unarmed monkey katas eclipsing weapon katas.
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