ranged combat revised rules

[scorps]

hi all, i am back into rifts megaverse after a long 15 yr absence. happy to see the revision to many original OCC's.

however i just noticed the rule change on ranged combat where less than 8 is a miss. can someone talk me through the logic change on this please.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

hi all, i am back into rifts megaverse after a long 15 yr absence. happy to see the revision to many original OCC's.

however i just noticed the rule change on ranged combat where less than 8 is a miss. can someone talk me through the logic change on this please.

Dont forget alternately stacking penalties and bonuses, that make ranged combat ludicrously non-survivable.

The logic of this change? There almost certainly wasn't any. People just complained that it was too easy to hit. Kevin changed it.

Kevin doesn't even use the published rules in his own games.

[Axelmania]

That rule was introduced in the conversion book and is still present in the Ultimate Edition as far as I'm aware.

[Jefffar]

Logic for the rule is simple. It's harder to hit someone 60 feet from you than it is to hit the guy right next to you.

[Myrrhibis]

hi all, i am back into rifts megaverse after a long 15 yr absence. happy to see the revision to many original OCC's.

however i just noticed the rule change on ranged combat where less than 8 is a miss. can someone talk me through the logic change on this please.

Dont forget alternately stacking penalties and bonuses, that make ranged combat ludicrously non-survivable.

The logic of this change? There almost certainly wasn't any. People just complained that it was too easy to hit. Kevin changed it.

Kevin doesn't even use the published rules in his own games.

Which I find hilarious.... because if you do the -10 to dodge, the average PC is going to have a -9 to -2 to dodge. Very few that aren't 7th + level are likely to have a positive dodge.

My groups never found the above to be inbalancing.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

hi all, i am back into rifts megaverse after a long 15 yr absence. happy to see the revision to many original OCC's.

however i just noticed the rule change on ranged combat where less than 8 is a miss. can someone talk me through the logic change on this please.

Dont forget alternately stacking penalties and bonuses, that make ranged combat ludicrously non-survivable.

The logic of this change? There almost certainly wasn't any. People just complained that it was too easy to hit. Kevin changed it.

Kevin doesn't even use the published rules in his own games.

Which I find hilarious.... because if you do the -10 to dodge, the average PC is going to have a -9 to -2 to dodge. Very few that aren't 7th + level are likely to have a positive dodge.

My groups never found the above to be inbalancing.

Thats rather what i was talking about. The stacking penalties and bonii make the entire system make no sense.

And slow combat down aggregiously, because you have to add in strike bonuses, dodge penalties, strike penalties, etc. Its mind-numbing and slow.

[SpiritInterface]

Logic for the rule is simple. It's harder to hit someone 60 feet from you than it is to hit the guy right next to you.

So you are saying a person skilled in the use of a pistol will miss a stationary man sized target at 60' 25-40% of the time at 60'.

[dreicunan]

Logic for the rule is simple. It's harder to hit someone 60 feet from you than it is to hit the guy right next to you.

So you are saying a person skilled in the use of a pistol will miss a stationary man sized target at 60' 25-40% of the time at 60'.

Depends on how you define skilled, and what you make someone roll to do. If I had a skilled marksman shooting a stationary target at 60 ft, there'd be no roll to just hit it. Now placing your shot carefully, yeah. Doing it in combat is another thing entirely, and the rules are made with combat in mind.

If "skilled" is a level 1 wp, then the 8 to hit becomes 6 on an aimed shot, but by level 10 even a 1 gets brought up to an 8 thanks to bonuses unless there are other negative modifiers. At level 14 he gets there without aiming. So the WPs get you hitting almost all the time barring a successful dodge pretty quickly.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Logic for the rule is simple. It's harder to hit someone 60 feet from you than it is to hit the guy right next to you.

So you are saying a person skilled in the use of a pistol will miss a stationary man sized target at 60' 25-40% of the time at 60'.

Depends on how you define skilled, and what you make someone roll to do. If I had a skilled marksman shooting a stationary target at 60 ft, there'd be no roll to just hit it. Now placing your shot carefully, yeah. Doing it in combat is another thing entirely, and the rules are made with combat in mind.

If "skilled" is a level 1 wp, then the 8 to hit becomes 6 on an aimed shot, but by level 10 even a 1 gets brought up to an 8 thanks to bonuses unless there are other negative modifiers. At level 14 he gets there without aiming. So the WPs get you hitting almost all the time barring a successful dodge pretty quickly.

Should be 5. The W.P. gives you +1 to strike (well, most do at first level), and the +2 for aiming is added onto that.

Though i realize it wont always be the case because of the bizarre "broke what wasnt broken" reshuffling of modern W.P.s from all just providing +1 at odd levels.. typically, it is.

[Jefffar]

Logic for the rule is simple. It's harder to hit someone 60 feet from you than it is to hit the guy right next to you.

So you are saying a person skilled in the use of a pistol will miss a stationary man sized target at 60' 25-40% of the time at 60'.

Depends how you define skilled and how you define stationary.

But yes, taking a snap shot (aimed shots have a bonus to hit which changes the odds) with a pistol, at a man sized target who is free to move (but not actively evading) isn't a simple thing.

[dreicunan]

Logic for the rule is simple. It's harder to hit someone 60 feet from you than it is to hit the guy right next to you.

So you are saying a person skilled in the use of a pistol will miss a stationary man sized target at 60' 25-40% of the time at 60'.

Depends on how you define skilled, and what you make someone roll to do. If I had a skilled marksman shooting a stationary target at 60 ft, there'd be no roll to just hit it. Now placing your shot carefully, yeah. Doing it in combat is another thing entirely, and the rules are made with combat in mind.

If "skilled" is a level 1 wp, then the 8 to hit becomes 6 on an aimed shot, but by level 10 even a 1 gets brought up to an 8 thanks to bonuses unless there are other negative modifiers. At level 14 he gets there without aiming. So the WPs get you hitting almost all the time barring a successful dodge pretty quickly.

Should be 5. The W.P. gives you +1 to strike (well, most do at first level), and the +2 for aiming is added onto that.

Though i realize it wont always be the case because of the bizarre "broke what wasnt broken" reshuffling of modern W.P.s from all just providing +1 at odd levels.. typically, it is.

WP Handgun doesn't give a bonus to strike until level 2 in RUE (both pages 328 and 360 agree on that). Since the example was with a pistol, that is what I went with. It would be a 5 at level 1 for WP Rifles, Shotguns, Sub-Machineguns, Heavy Military Weapons, and Energy Pistol.