Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

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dreicunan
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by dreicunan »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:I know the passage hes referring to, and when i read it, i just shook my head at how utterly nonsensical and stupid it was. It makes NO sense. Bases several hundred miles inside German airspace should be unassailable, and should ALWAYS have been unassailable by Gargoyles.

You'd have HOURS of Radar warning at a massed attack like that - Gargoyles simply dont fly that fast. Itd be a Turkey Shoot of epic proportions every time with the planes gone HOURS before the Gargoyles could get into range.

One thing Drei got -slightly- wrong was that the "they never had jets because attacks" was past tense; the new Luftwaffe exists because the jets are VTOL and dont need airfields. But it is a 'new development', relatively.

Still makes no sense.

Re-read the page. I didn't get it wrong (nor did I say that they never had jets); page 159 says, AFTER mentioning the new VTOL aircraft and the small airbases somehow under constant attack: "The bottom line for the NGR is simple: They cannot field a large or versatile air force. They are limited to a small air force, restricted to specialized craft." I think it is terrible writing for all the reasons that you cited, but apparently somehow the VTOL aircraft have not completely rectified the situation.
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Colonel_Tetsuya
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

That makes even less sense. If VTOL fighters cant take off (somehow), how do flying PA or Robots take off?

Not arguing with the interpretation, jusr frustrated at how utterly stupid it is.

Then again, even with their 104/105 PA tech, the Gargoyles should NEVER have been a threat to the NGR. Only a small portion of the Gargoyles/Gurgoyles have modern weapons (in Triax 1), and Triax ALREADY had aircraft that could shoot Gargoyles from FAR outside their ability to reply.

It should always have been a turkey shoot. LRMs and MRMs alone should have made attacks by air completely infeasible.
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dreicunan
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by dreicunan »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:That makes even less sense. If VTOL fighters cant take off (somehow), how do flying PA or Robots take off?

Not arguing with the interpretation, jusr frustrated at how utterly stupid it is.

Then again, even with their 104/105 PA tech, the Gargoyles should NEVER have been a threat to the NGR. Only a small portion of the Gargoyles/Gurgoyles have modern weapons (in Triax 1), and Triax ALREADY had aircraft that could shoot Gargoyles from FAR outside their ability to reply.

It should always have been a turkey shoot. LRMs and MRMs alone should have made attacks by air completely infeasible.

Yeah, I completely agree. They had almost no weapons to go beyond 6000 feet, and few of those. The gargoyles may have big chunks of MDC, but the NGR's X-10A Predator alone could kite the gargoyles for as long as the pilot has the stamina to do so. Gargoyle flight speed tops out 100 (less than 70 mph) and the average is 60 (just above 40 mph). They couldn't even catch up to a terrain hopper!
Axelmania wrote:You of course, being the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not.
Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.
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Axelmania
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Axelmania »

Re an NGR air force vs Gargoyles, WB5 mentions some Gargoyle Mages are Herbalists.

One thing Herbalists can make is a wand that fan summon and control any kind of elemental.

Although it is 1 per wand there doesn't appear to be a time limit like for warlocks or battle of wills like shifters.

There is no known limit to how many wands can be made. The ingredients seem easy to find. The main limit would be the unknown time it takes to make them since getting the PPE should be easy.

It is plausible that Gmage Herbalists are mass producing these things and sending Air Elementals out with orders like "destroy all non gargoyles above 100 feet" which would create problems.
Shark_Force
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Shark_Force »

you sure herbalists can do that? i'm almost certain herbalists are limited from making some of the items, i just can't remember if it's only staffs, or if wands are included in the things they can't make.

(supposedly only dryad druids can make certain things at all and nobody else can, but iirc that's only stated in dryad druid entry but not in filidh which says they get all herb magic stuff or something to that effect... but in any event, i'm pretty sure the basic herbalist can't make everything in herbal magic).

(edit: as you might guess from my uncertainty, i don't have the book on hand to check... )
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Blue_Lion
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Shark_Force wrote:you sure herbalists can do that? i'm almost certain herbalists are limited from making some of the items, i just can't remember if it's only staffs, or if wands are included in the things they can't make.

(supposedly only dryad druids can make certain things at all and nobody else can, but iirc that's only stated in dryad druid entry but not in filidh which says they get all herb magic stuff or something to that effect... but in any event, i'm pretty sure the basic herbalist can't make everything in herbal magic).

(edit: as you might guess from my uncertainty, i don't have the book on hand to check... )

A quick check shows the OCC does not list the ability to use herb magic but herb magic does say it is used by herbalist and druids. The herbalist occ only talks about teas and potions.
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Colonel_Tetsuya
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Im also fairly sure that if there were unending hordes of Air Elementals tearing the NGR forces out of the air, it would have been mentioned... and theyd have had a lot less air vehicles.
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.
Shark_Force
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Blue_Lion wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:you sure herbalists can do that? i'm almost certain herbalists are limited from making some of the items, i just can't remember if it's only staffs, or if wands are included in the things they can't make.

(supposedly only dryad druids can make certain things at all and nobody else can, but iirc that's only stated in dryad druid entry but not in filidh which says they get all herb magic stuff or something to that effect... but in any event, i'm pretty sure the basic herbalist can't make everything in herbal magic).

(edit: as you might guess from my uncertainty, i don't have the book on hand to check... )

A quick check shows the OCC does not list the ability to use herb magic but herb magic does say it is used by herbalist and druids. The herbalist occ only talks about teas and potions.


huh. that's much worse than i thought.

i figured they'd at least be able to make the miscellaneous stuff, not just teas and potions.
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Blue_Lion
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Re: Rifts NA and the usefullness of AIRPOWER......

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Shark_Force wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:you sure herbalists can do that? i'm almost certain herbalists are limited from making some of the items, i just can't remember if it's only staffs, or if wands are included in the things they can't make.

(supposedly only dryad druids can make certain things at all and nobody else can, but iirc that's only stated in dryad druid entry but not in filidh which says they get all herb magic stuff or something to that effect... but in any event, i'm pretty sure the basic herbalist can't make everything in herbal magic).

(edit: as you might guess from my uncertainty, i don't have the book on hand to check... )

A quick check shows the OCC does not list the ability to use herb magic but herb magic does say it is used by herbalist and druids. The herbalist occ only talks about teas and potions.


huh. that's much worse than i thought.

i figured they'd at least be able to make the miscellaneous stuff, not just teas and potions.

Well the way it is written the class talks about potions and teas but that was a different section than herb magic that says they can use it. So what they can do is up to the GM to make a call.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
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