Chi Town, Iron Heart, Lazlo & New Lazlo

[Thias]

What books are these places more detailly explained in?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Nowhere. they've never been detailed

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

There's is SOME info on Chi-town (but mostly the 'Burbs) in Coalition War Campaign, but it isn't a lot. As for the rest? Nothin. No particular details about any of those places, and have never been explicitly detailed.

[boring7]

Not to mention when things ARE covered they are usually covered over the course of several dozen books. Good grief, there's an update to Mars in South America 2 of all things.

[Thias]

Oh I thought that they would stat all the mjor places in one of the books. I have Aftermath and then i guess that that is the best

[kaid]

For chi town there was the series of burb books that have some decent info about the slums surrounding chi town, The CS war campaign book has some info about the city in general and heroes of humanity has some detail about fortress city defenses including some interesting info about the external rooms with windows and how they are basically firewalled off from the city proper so if somebody managed to teleport into one of those rooms it does not gain them access to the city proper.

[boring7]

More specifically, Adventure Sourcebooks 1-4 (I assume that's what you're referring to kaid).

There's fluff about locations mixed in randomly with adventures and other stuff. Palladium Books is not known for it's careful editing and organization.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

For chi town there was the series of burb books that have some decent info about the slums surrounding chi town, The CS war campaign book has some info about the city in general and heroes of humanity has some detail about fortress city defenses including some interesting info about the external rooms with windows and how they are basically firewalled off from the city proper so if somebody managed to teleport into one of those rooms it does not gain them access to the city proper.

Which contradicts Black Market, which explicitly says that that is one of the ways goods are smuggled into the cities (invisible flyers leaving goods on balconies is a given example).

Honestly, though, I'd just chalk that up to Kevin not even realizing that that example was ever given, since he didn't write Black Market, IIRC.

[kaid]

More specifically, Adventure Sourcebooks 1-4 (I assume that's what you're referring to kaid).

There's fluff about locations mixed in randomly with adventures and other stuff. Palladium Books is not known for it's careful editing and organization.

Yup I believe those are the ones. They mostly give you some feel for what the burbs are like but the burbs are really open to GM fiat because even the old ones are subject to mass purges/bulldozing at a moments notice if the CS deems it necessary.

I sort of understand not wanting to try to make anything to cannon so GM's can feel free to put their own spin on things but I would really love a basic CS fortress city type description. Leave it open ended but it would be nice to get a better feel how they are at least in general configured internally.

[kaid]

For chi town there was the series of burb books that have some decent info about the slums surrounding chi town, The CS war campaign book has some info about the city in general and heroes of humanity has some detail about fortress city defenses including some interesting info about the external rooms with windows and how they are basically firewalled off from the city proper so if somebody managed to teleport into one of those rooms it does not gain them access to the city proper.

Which contradicts Black Market, which explicitly says that that is one of the ways goods are smuggled into the cities (invisible flyers leaving goods on balconies is a given example).

Honestly, though, I'd just chalk that up to Kevin not even realizing that that example was ever given, since he didn't write Black Market, IIRC.

Actually it does not. It just means that you really cannot use teleporting invasions to balconies to have any sort of easy ingress into the city. Basically for smuggling you are going in really quiet and having people in the the rooms do the smuggling into the city proper. Given most of the people who have those are likely higher ranked folks easy enough to find some corrupt ones willing to do some smuggling and pass stuff through check points to gain access to the city proper.

It also prevents the teleporting a giant bomb onto the balconies/windows of the fortress city. You will blow the hell out of the facade window/balcony rooms but it is unlikely to breach the actual fortress city walls.

It just means if you tried to do a rift or mass teleport attack via the windows/balconies you still wind up having to go through very well fortified firewalled defenses to have any chance of breaching the city proper.

[Shark_Force]

For chi town there was the series of burb books that have some decent info about the slums surrounding chi town, The CS war campaign book has some info about the city in general and heroes of humanity has some detail about fortress city defenses including some interesting info about the external rooms with windows and how they are basically firewalled off from the city proper so if somebody managed to teleport into one of those rooms it does not gain them access to the city proper.

Which contradicts Black Market, which explicitly says that that is one of the ways goods are smuggled into the cities (invisible flyers leaving goods on balconies is a given example).

Honestly, though, I'd just chalk that up to Kevin not even realizing that that example was ever given, since he didn't write Black Market, IIRC.

Actually it does not. It just means that you really cannot use teleporting invasions to balconies to have any sort of easy ingress into the city. Basically for smuggling you are going in really quiet and having people in the the rooms do the smuggling into the city proper. Given most of the people who have those are likely higher ranked folks easy enough to find some corrupt ones willing to do some smuggling and pass stuff through check points to gain access to the city proper.

It also prevents the teleporting a giant bomb onto the balconies/windows of the fortress city. You will blow the hell out of the facade window/balcony rooms but it is unlikely to breach the actual fortress city walls.

It just means if you tried to do a rift or mass teleport attack via the windows/balconies you still wind up having to go through very well fortified firewalled defenses to have any chance of breaching the city proper.

or you just have to do it in 2 stages (teleport into the room, then mystic portal to get through the firewall). assuming you can't just teleport past the wall in the first place, that is (does it give any reason why someone couldn't just teleport past? i mean, obviously, it would need to be someone who's got some knowledge of what's beyond trying to teleport, but that isn't exactly impossible).

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

For chi town there was the series of burb books that have some decent info about the slums surrounding chi town, The CS war campaign book has some info about the city in general and heroes of humanity has some detail about fortress city defenses including some interesting info about the external rooms with windows and how they are basically firewalled off from the city proper so if somebody managed to teleport into one of those rooms it does not gain them access to the city proper.

Which contradicts Black Market, which explicitly says that that is one of the ways goods are smuggled into the cities (invisible flyers leaving goods on balconies is a given example).

Honestly, though, I'd just chalk that up to Kevin not even realizing that that example was ever given, since he didn't write Black Market, IIRC.

Actually it does not. It just means that you really cannot use teleporting invasions to balconies to have any sort of easy ingress into the city. Basically for smuggling you are going in really quiet and having people in the the rooms do the smuggling into the city proper. Given most of the people who have those are likely higher ranked folks easy enough to find some corrupt ones willing to do some smuggling and pass stuff through check points to gain access to the city proper.

It also prevents the teleporting a giant bomb onto the balconies/windows of the fortress city. You will blow the hell out of the facade window/balcony rooms but it is unlikely to breach the actual fortress city walls.

It just means if you tried to do a rift or mass teleport attack via the windows/balconies you still wind up having to go through very well fortified firewalled defenses to have any chance of breaching the city proper.

or you just have to do it in 2 stages (teleport into the room, then mystic portal to get through the firewall). assuming you can't just teleport past the wall in the first place, that is (does it give any reason why someone couldn't just teleport past? i mean, obviously, it would need to be someone who's got some knowledge of what's beyond trying to teleport, but that isn't exactly impossible).

Just that teleport superior is absurdly high level (not in the range of "you can buy this spell with enough money"), and costs a metric truckload of P.P.E.... AND requires you to have been to the place before or have intimate knowledge of it in some other way to no have a decent risk of dying....

Having associates on the inside to come out and pick up the contraband, or using Mystic Portal to get inside is likely QUITE a bit safer and more feasible (as none of the non-detection magic, fly like the eagle, or mystic portal are in the "unpurchasable" range or so PPE heavy as to be non-feasible).

[eliakon]

Why do people think that formal organizations like Militaries or Blackmarkets are going to be restricted by the same purchasing limits that PCs have?
I mean seriously.
Do we just assume that since military vehicles are "not for sale" that the military doesn't have them?
Do we assume that since Splugorth equipment is not for sale that the Spulgorth doesn't have it?
Do we... (I can go on here but I wont)
The restrictions on what can be bought and prices are based on player characters buying stuff people.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Why do people think that formal organizations like Militaries or Blackmarkets are going to be restricted by the same purchasing limits that PCs have?
I mean seriously.
Do we just assume that since military vehicles are "not for sale" that the military doesn't have them?
Do we assume that since Splugorth equipment is not for sale that the Spulgorth doesn't have it?
Do we... (I can go on here but I wont)
The restrictions on what can be bought and prices are based on player characters buying stuff people.

Except for spells. We are told again, and again, and again, and again, from every book starting with the old RMB that spells above a certain level are obssessively hoarded and not for sale, ever.

Book Of Magic reiterates it, Federation of Magic reiterates it. Anything with a lot of spells re-iterates it.

Hell, even Juicer Uprising mentions it (when describing Kingsdale's magic academies).

FWIW, i agree with you that it SHOULDN'T be that way, but thats what we're told and all we have to go on.

The setting info says that high level spells are just super rare and hoarded and never shared, despite other evidence to the contrary (cheap Ironwood armor manufactured in Arzno, for instance).

[eliakon]

Why do people think that formal organizations like Militaries or Blackmarkets are going to be restricted by the same purchasing limits that PCs have?
I mean seriously.
Do we just assume that since military vehicles are "not for sale" that the military doesn't have them?
Do we assume that since Splugorth equipment is not for sale that the Spulgorth doesn't have it?
Do we... (I can go on here but I wont)
The restrictions on what can be bought and prices are based on player characters buying stuff people.

Except for spells. We are told again, and again, and again, and again, from every book starting with the old RMB that spells above a certain level are obssessively hoarded and not for sale, ever.

Book Of Magic reiterates it, Federation of Magic reiterates it. Anything with a lot of spells re-iterates it.

Hell, even Juicer Uprising mentions it (when describing Kingsdale's magic academies).

FWIW, i agree with you that it SHOULDN'T be that way, but thats what we're told and all we have to go on.

The setting info says that high level spells are just super rare and hoarded and never shared, despite other evidence to the contrary (cheap Ironwood armor manufactured in Arzno, for instance).

Again.
no
They are not for sale to the PCs
The argument that they are not for sale AT ALL is the same idiotic argument that the CS doesn't have any gear since they can't buy it. After all, its not for sale.
The rules for the economy are written from the view of what the players can buy.
Full stop.
What the military can get via military spending is outside of that.
Tolkeen is a perfect example.
The Tolkeen military point blank canonically gave out spells of legend.
Which by the logic above was impossible.
Hmmm. I am going to go with "It happened"
Maybe, just maybe the military and such are not idiots are not bound by the same rules that govern what player characters can buy and can get military supplies and such.
I mean I guess your games can have the CS wandering around with nothing heavier than Deadboy armor because they can't requisition anything for their troops. Which will be fine since the Spulgorth wont have anything to fight them with. Nor will Tolkeen.
It will be a wonderful world for Advenurures, no one will be mean and have anything that a PC cant buy.
I don't run my game like that.
In my game the military has military gear and the CS has SAMAS, and Skelbots, and Deathheads, and stuff.

You don't get to pick and choose which "not for sale" you want to use.
Either they ALL apply or NONE of them do. Pick one.

[Axelmania]

I thought they gave out SCROLLS of spells of legend. That's a bit different. Its difficult to learn spells from a scroll. You could also monitor the people you gave the scroll to to make sure they don't try.

[Killer Cyborg]

Why do people think that formal organizations like Militaries or Blackmarkets are going to be restricted by the same purchasing limits that PCs have?
I mean seriously.
Do we just assume that since military vehicles are "not for sale" that the military doesn't have them?
Do we assume that since Splugorth equipment is not for sale that the Spulgorth doesn't have it?
Do we... (I can go on here but I wont)
The restrictions on what can be bought and prices are based on player characters buying stuff people.

Except for spells. We are told again, and again, and again, and again, from every book starting with the old RMB that spells above a certain level are obssessively hoarded and not for sale, ever.

Book Of Magic reiterates it, Federation of Magic reiterates it. Anything with a lot of spells re-iterates it.

Hell, even Juicer Uprising mentions it (when describing Kingsdale's magic academies).

FWIW, i agree with you that it SHOULDN'T be that way, but thats what we're told and all we have to go on.

The setting info says that high level spells are just super rare and hoarded and never shared, despite other evidence to the contrary (cheap Ironwood armor manufactured in Arzno, for instance).

Again.
no
They are not for sale to the PCs
The argument that they are not for sale AT ALL is the same idiotic argument that the CS doesn't have any gear since they can't buy it. After all, its not for sale.
The rules for the economy are written from the view of what the players can buy.
Full stop.
What the military can get via military spending is outside of that.
Tolkeen is a perfect example.
The Tolkeen military point blank canonically gave out spells of legend.
Which by the logic above was impossible.
Hmmm. I am going to go with "It happened"
Maybe, just maybe the military and such are not idiots are not bound by the same rules that govern what player characters can buy and can get military supplies and such.
I mean I guess your games can have the CS wandering around with nothing heavier than Deadboy armor because they can't requisition anything for their troops. Which will be fine since the Spulgorth wont have anything to fight them with. Nor will Tolkeen.
It will be a wonderful world for Advenurures, no one will be mean and have anything that a PC cant buy.
I don't run my game like that.
In my game the military has military gear and the CS has SAMAS, and Skelbots, and Deathheads, and stuff.

You don't get to pick and choose which "not for sale" you want to use.
Either they ALL apply or NONE of them do. Pick one.

Sounds like you're saying that not all statements by the authors are absolutes, and that exceptions may apply.
I agree.

[Axelmania]

Not for sale to some people?

Or not for sale at a given point in time? 105 NFS might he sellable in 106PA

[Thias]

talk about derailing a thread for your endless arguments

[Axelmania]

What militaries can buy was brought up.

I suppose if we look at a sale in terms of discount periods, NFS could mean no special deals.

Also worth noting that NFS.doesn't mean not for RENT.

[eliakon]

talk about derailing a thread for your endless arguments

My apologies I didn't mean to be derailing. I'll shut up about militaries and spells now.
Lazlo supposedly had a book in the works but the manuscript never materialized.

[Jefffar]

Locked at OPs request