Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

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darkdaemon
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Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by darkdaemon »

I am playing a Were-Tiger. We just landed on the moon. With the Immunity that Werecreatures have. Would they be able to survive in the vacuum of space
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Mack »

GM's call, but I'd go with a dead-cat-sicle.

EDIT - if a GM was feeling kind, they could go with a state of frozen hibernation until brought back inside.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Axelmania »

Unlike vampires who I am.pretty sure explicitly do not need to breath, I think were creatures would still need to.

They can naturally cast the Death Trance spell. Maybe that would slowndown suffocation a little?
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Jefffar »

I would say that as creatures of magic, were beasts are far more resistant to the effects of vacuum than a normal being.

But I don't think that would be impervious, but able to function for a while and, if able to get inside fast enough, able to recover quickly.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Mack wrote:GM's call, but I'd go with a dead-cat-sicle.

EDIT - if a GM was feeling kind, they could go with a state of frozen hibernation until brought back inside.

Jefffar wrote:I would say that as creatures of magic, were beasts are far more resistant to the effects of vacuum than a normal being.

But I don't think that would be impervious, but able to function for a while and, if able to get inside fast enough, able to recover quickly.

Agrees with Mack and Jefffar.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

no. they still need to eat and breath, so would need life support. and while their limited invulnerability/regeneration might allow them to survive the decompression effects.. it would hurt like hell, so they'd avoid doing it.

so yeah, they'd need a space suit. at least a basic one.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by guardiandashi »

I would say GM's call but as to my opinion.
since most were creatures have limited invulnerabilities to energy weapons, heat and cold fire etc.

I would say they would be very resistant to impervious to the heat and cold effects IE the ~400degrees in the sun and minus 200ish in shade. with their bioregeneration abilities they would be pretty resistant to most vacuum effects, but they still need to breathe. They do tend to have rather high PE (compared to humans) and so could likely hold their breath for a while...

so all in all...
they likely would be resistant to the extreme temperatures, (look at mutants in orbit if you have it and somewhere between 1/4 and 1/10 the damage listed for decompression effects, and thus able to function/survive at least 4-10 times as long.
their high PE would allow them to hold their breath for longer than a "normal human" or if using a respirator especially with a face mask would be just fine .... for a while, but I would also say being in vacuum conditions would likely hurt like hell. so they would really want to use a space suit.

now depending on your take on mythology they either are highly resistant to the kinds of attacks their limited invulnerabilities cover, or they have such insane regeneration that they effectively heal the damage from those attacks almost instantly, and the attacks that they are vulnerable to are actually ones that their regeneration doesn't heal as well so they don't shrug it off so they have to heal it more "normally"
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by eliakon »

Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide has rules for what happens if your exposed to vacuum on page 211...
...they are not pretty.
Basically you start Suffocating while taking massive amounts of cold and radiation damage.
And while a Were can probably shrug off the cold, at least for a while, and may or may not be resistant if not outright immune to the radiation...
...they still have to breathe and thus the suffocation rules would be a problem.

I would suggest, in the strongest possible terms, getting a space suit.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Mack »

Mack wrote:GM's call, but I'd go with a dead-cat-sicle.

EDIT - if a GM was feeling kind, they could go with a state of frozen hibernation until brought back inside.


Addendum - and I'd throw in a roll on the random insanity table.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

darkdaemon wrote:I am playing a Were-Tiger. We just landed on the moon. With the Immunity that Werecreatures have. Would they be able to survive in the vacuum of space

That depends do they breathe?

DB11 Fot3G pg121 pg121-2 "Create Vacuum" spell. Damage is done "direct to Hit Points to mortal beings" and "Mega-Damage creatures that breathe". This gives an idea of what would happen w/n the rules when someone is exposed to the vacuum of space. So the answer does come down to if the werecreature needs to breathe.

Mutants in Orbit (pg17) has the Vacuum Survival Skill (it increases the length of time you can be exposed AND how long you could survive w/o the skill)
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by dreicunan »

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/atmosphere/q0291.shtml

This is a great resource for facts about what actually happens when faced with exposure to a vacuum.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

So what would be the minimal level of aid to survive?

would breath without air or sustain keep them alive?
Would a air tank with a face mask work or would it be a full suit of eba/space suit.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Axelmania »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Jefffar wrote:I would say that as creatures of magic, were beasts are far more resistant to the effects of vacuum than a normal being.

Agrees with Mack and Jefffar.


That is some impressive shadow-editing of magic>vacuum in Jefffar/Drew's posts (doesn't even say they were edited!) and deletion of my posts pointing out the error. If I knew things were being played that way I would've taken a screenshot. Did not know mod powers were so extensive and permissible for liberal application.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Axelmania wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Jefffar wrote:I would say that as creatures of magic, were beasts are far more resistant to the effects of vacuum than a normal being.

Agrees with Mack and Jefffar.


That is some impressive shadow-editing of magic>vacuum in Jefffar/Drew's posts (doesn't even say they were edited!) and deletion of my posts pointing out the error. If I knew things were being played that way I would've taken a screenshot. Did not know mod powers were so extensive and permissible for liberal application.

I would advise if you have a problem with how a mod behaves you find the proper channel to get it addressed making a public challenge of the mods may not be in your best interest.
(I thought about making a post about PB shadow updates but meh.)
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Blue_Lion wrote:So what would be the minimal level of aid to survive?

would breath without air or sustain keep them alive?
Would a air tank with a face mask work or would it be a full suit of eba/space suit.

The BwoA protects the target from the hazard of being w/o air.

Radiation and other things in the space environment, not so much protection if going by the exact wording of the spell in RUE.

Face mask meant for beings that are immune/resistant to the effects of being in a vacuum….GM choice.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Axelmania »

Blue_Lion wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Jefffar wrote:I would say that as creatures of magic, were beasts are far more resistant to the effects of vacuum than a normal being.

Agrees with Mack and Jefffar.


That is some impressive shadow-editing of magic>vacuum in Jefffar/Drew's posts (doesn't even say they were edited!) and deletion of my posts pointing out the error. If I knew things were being played that way I would've taken a screenshot. Did not know mod powers were so extensive and permissible for liberal application.

I would advise if you have a problem with how a mod behaves you find the proper channel to get it addressed making a public challenge of the mods may not be in your best interest.
(I thought about making a post about PB shadow updates but meh.)

You mean like when they tweak stands in new printings not tagged as revised editions?
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

As in, if you have a gripe with one of the moderators you need to go to one of the other moderators and complain in privet to him, instead of dragging out the dirty laundry in the public posts.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

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Last edited by Library Ogre on Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by kaid »

I think if it was long enough it probably would kill them off but their regen abilities would allow them to last a pretty long time I would think before perma death set in. The normal damage done to the lungs and by the heat cold would not do a whole lot to the were critter as they would be healing that damage as fast as it happened. The big problem is how long their body can keep doing that when there is no air to fuel their bodies and thats GM fiat.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Axelmania »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As in, if you have a gripe with one of the moderators you need to go to one of the other moderators and complain in privet to him, instead of dragging out the dirty laundry in the public posts.

Can't PM someone if you don't know who made the edit =/

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kaid wrote:I think if it was long enough it probably would kill them off but their regen abilities would allow them to last a pretty long time I would think before perma death set in. The normal damage done to the lungs and by the heat cold would not do a whole lot to the were critter as they would be healing that damage as fast as it happened. The big problem is how long their body can keep doing that when there is no air to fuel their bodies and thats GM fiat.

Werecreatures heal on an hourly basis, that's not very fast.

The problem is, I'm not sure how much damage suffocation does.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Axelmania wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:http://imgur.com/EPo7rsN

Mods never make mistakes, period.


Woah, don't drag me into this. I was commenting on the original post... a werebeast winding up in outer space will take a lot longer to die, but they will die, and it will suck the entire time.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by kaid »

Mark Hall wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:http://imgur.com/EPo7rsN

Mods never make mistakes, period.


Woah, don't drag me into this. I was commenting on the original post... a werebeast winding up in outer space will take a lot longer to die, but they will die, and it will suck the entire time.



Yup pretty much just a question of how long and how ugly it would be. And the answer is longer than the werebeast would like. Longer window to save one from accidental EVA or exposure to space than normal people but if one is spaced and nobody is trying to save it probably not worth worrring about it and chalk it up as dead.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by guardiandashi »

kaid wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Axelmania wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:http://imgur.com/EPo7rsN

Mods never make mistakes, period.


Woah, don't drag me into this. I was commenting on the original post... a werebeast winding up in outer space will take a lot longer to die, but they will die, and it will suck the entire time.



Yup pretty much just a question of how long and how ugly it would be. And the answer is longer than the werebeast would like. Longer window to save one from accidental EVA or exposure to space than normal people but if one is spaced and nobody is trying to save it probably not worth worrring about it and chalk it up as dead.

maybe its just me, but I don't think of walking or being thrown outside on the moon as being spaced, that's more being thrown out of a spacecraft.

the reason I make that distinction is that once you are out of reach / grapple range or similar from a spacecraft you are totally screwed. (unless you can fly in space and then that's a different issue. ) on the other hand a person, werebeast, or other supernatural outside on the moon IF they can do more than just lie there in pain, has a chance to work to get back inside, whether to save themselves, or to be a jerk and make sure whoever threw them out into that hostile terrain :p go down with them.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

given that "being spaced" is basically "death by vacuum" it doesn't really matter if it is from a ship in orbit or on the surface of an airless body. the effect is the same.

while the moon does have an atmosphere, it is so tenuous it still counts as hard vacuum.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Axelmania wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As in, if you have a gripe with one of the moderators you need to go to one of the other moderators and complain in privet to him, instead of dragging out the dirty laundry in the public posts.

Can't PM someone if you don't know who made the edit =/

Mark Hall wrote:http://imgur.com/EPo7rsN

Mods never make mistakes, period.

kaid wrote:I think if it was long enough it probably would kill them off but their regen abilities would allow them to last a pretty long time I would think before perma death set in. The normal damage done to the lungs and by the heat cold would not do a whole lot to the were critter as they would be healing that damage as fast as it happened. The big problem is how long their body can keep doing that when there is no air to fuel their bodies and thats GM fiat.

Werecreatures heal on an hourly basis, that's not very fast.

The problem is, I'm not sure how much damage suffocation does.

You PM a mod with a request to be informed if there was a reason for the change and the deletion. Even if it is the mod who did it you should still be told why your post was deleted (to avoid repeating the mistake) if that mod does not reply spawn in a reasonable time frame like say two weeks then PM the same mod or another to get an update or find out why no reason was given.

Do not drag more mods into a public attack on their accountability as that could be seen as challenging the mods to wizzing contest and get you banned even if you do have a legit case.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Axelmania »

I think the first question we should ask is...

If a human is enchanted with Breath Without Air, what effects would they suffer in a vacuum with suffocation off the table?

Werewolves would suffocate but they might be resistant to stuff like freezing. Aren't they immune to non magical cold attacks?
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Axelmania wrote:I think the first question we should ask is...

If a human is enchanted with Breath Without Air, what effects would they suffer in a vacuum with suffocation off the table?

Werewolves would suffocate but they might be resistant to stuff like freezing. Aren't they immune to non magical cold attacks?

Well first I think there would be some damage from decompression causing some damage in exposed tissue the pressure side popping them like a balloon. Then there would be possible radiation damage/poisoning. Depending on location in space there could be extreme cold or heat damage. But what of that affects the where wolf seams to be the question.

Lack of air is the most likely the fastest to kill a human.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by Eagle »

It's just a GM call. It's like the old D&D question of whether the Earth counts as a +1 weapon. Take a monster that requires magic weapons to hurt, and throw him off a cliff or out of an airplane. Does he die when he hits the ground?

As far as I know, the Palladium rules are incomplete as to what happens if you get thrown out of an airlock. Maybe there's something in a Dimension Book, but I don't remember it if there is. And I'm almost positive that there's not a point by point breakdown saying "if you have this protection but not that protection, you take XYZ. If you have that but not this, you take ABC..." So it's really just up to the GM. It's a clash of genres, really. Creatures from classic horror generally aren't exposed to the dangers of outer space. But Rifts is all about a clash of genres, so I guess this is the right place for it to happen.

Personally, I'd probably have the werewolf slowly die out there. His natural immunities operate with the supposition that he's in a habitable environment. I mean, it doesn't really matter that much because he can't fly or maneuver in outer space anyway. As soon as he leaves the airlock, he's just going to float away. It doesn't matter if he's still alive or not, he's been removed from the game.

But I'd also say that if you bring him back on board the ship, alive or dead, he's going to have a chance at serial killer regeneration. He just might wake back up. Maybe have the werewolf make a save vs coma/death or something. If the fail, they're dead. If they make it, their regeneration will eventually kick in and they'll get back up. But again, that's only if some idiot brings them back onto a ship or into an environment where they can survive.
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Re: Were Creatures. Vaccum of space.

Unread post by eliakon »

Eagle wrote:It's just a GM call. It's like the old D&D question of whether the Earth counts as a +1 weapon. Take a monster that requires magic weapons to hurt, and throw him off a cliff or out of an airplane. Does he die when he hits the ground?

As far as I know, the Palladium rules are incomplete as to what happens if you get thrown out of an airlock. Maybe there's something in a Dimension Book, but I don't remember it if there is. And I'm almost positive that there's not a point by point breakdown saying "if you have this protection but not that protection, you take XYZ. If you have that but not this, you take ABC..." So it's really just up to the GM. It's a clash of genres, really. Creatures from classic horror generally aren't exposed to the dangers of outer space. But Rifts is all about a clash of genres, so I guess this is the right place for it to happen.

Personally, I'd probably have the werewolf slowly die out there. His natural immunities operate with the supposition that he's in a habitable environment. I mean, it doesn't really matter that much because he can't fly or maneuver in outer space anyway. As soon as he leaves the airlock, he's just going to float away. It doesn't matter if he's still alive or not, he's been removed from the game.

But I'd also say that if you bring him back on board the ship, alive or dead, he's going to have a chance at serial killer regeneration. He just might wake back up. Maybe have the werewolf make a save vs coma/death or something. If the fail, they're dead. If they make it, their regeneration will eventually kick in and they'll get back up. But again, that's only if some idiot brings them back onto a ship or into an environment where they can survive.

There are a lot of rules out there actually.
There are pretty extensive rules on suffocation...
...and that is what happens in space.
The big question would be if the GM will use the kinder rules found in places like Underseas or the Harsher rules found in places like HU's Galaxy Guide.
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