Boom Guns vs Bugs!

[Shark_Force]

@killer cyborg:

don't forget that they can also just smash the tree sections. they do MD as well, after all, so if a tree does fall on them and actually manage to pin them (two separate things) they can just smash the tree into convenient sized pieces.

also, i doubt there's much LOS in remotely dense forest to be able to use thermal out to a range of 2,000 feet.

if the bugs are flying through the treetops, i doubt there's much LOS period, maybe within a couple hundred feet or so. thermal doesn't pierce objects for the most part after all. at least, not unless a heat source has been sitting next to the object for an extended period of time, which the bugs obviously will not be.

(and if it's a thick pine forest, i would be surprised if you could see 20 feet, let alone 2,000).

[Killer Cyborg]

@killer cyborg:

don't forget that they can also just smash the tree sections. they do MD as well, after all, so if a tree does fall on them and actually manage to pin them (two separate things) they can just smash the tree into convenient sized pieces.

Good point.

also, i doubt there's much LOS in remotely dense forest to be able to use thermal out to a range of 2,000 feet.

if the bugs are flying through the treetops, i doubt there's much LOS period, maybe within a couple hundred feet or so. thermal doesn't pierce objects for the most part after all. at least, not unless a heat source has been sitting next to the object for an extended period of time, which the bugs obviously will not be.

(and if it's a thick pine forest, i would be surprised if you could see 20 feet, let alone 2,000).

For that matter, we're talking about insectoid creatures; I'm not sure how well they'd show up on thermal to begin with, much less when their exoskeleton is being air-cooled by flying.

[J_cobbers]

@killer cyborg:

don't forget that they can also just smash the tree sections. they do MD as well, after all, so if a tree does fall on them and actually manage to pin them (two separate things) they can just smash the tree into convenient sized pieces.

Good point.

also, i doubt there's much LOS in remotely dense forest to be able to use thermal out to a range of 2,000 feet.

if the bugs are flying through the treetops, i doubt there's much LOS period, maybe within a couple hundred feet or so. thermal doesn't pierce objects for the most part after all. at least, not unless a heat source has been sitting next to the object for an extended period of time, which the bugs obviously will not be.

(and if it's a thick pine forest, i would be surprised if you could see 20 feet, let alone 2,000).

For that matter, we're talking about insectoid creatures; I'm not sure how well they'd show up on thermal to begin with, much less when their exoskeleton is being air-cooled by flying.

Eh well there goes that idea a bit. I would point out that cold blooded creatures do generate heat when active (see killer bees when preparing to swarm, and Japanese bees http://theoatmeal.com/comics/bees_vs_hornets ) just not when inactive. And yes in all likely hood the shots would be fired wildly into the forest, but the idea is to target the trees around the Xits not the xits themselves, namely to slow them down them and to clear out enough of any forested terrain to get line of sight. Perhaps a better idea would to set up plenty of explosives in the woods for remote detonations should any xits take cover there once the shooting starts. If you are able to choose your battle ground, then you should prepare it in your favor.

[glitterboy2098]

poikilothermic and Ectothermic creatures merely do not have the mechanisms by which they internally regulate body temperature. the body temp at which they become active is not much lower than that of Endothemic creatures like mammals, and since they do respire and metabolize they do actually generate their own heat. the issue is mainly that they tend to have biology that does not support a high metabolic rate which would generate sufficient heat to keep them active at all times. thus they have to rely on ambient temps and sunlight to 'prime the pump' of their bodily system to get it going. (this is basically why they slip into torpor.. when it gets too cold, their metabolism and body starts going into minimum power mode to save energy.) the handful of species that has evolved mechanisms to generate heat, like the bees, tuna, etc. usually can only do so for brief periods safely.

that said i am not convinced that the xiticix are Ectotherm's or Poikilotherm's. those types tend to live sporadic existence, with brief periods of activity punctuating long stretches of inactivity. of course there are some exceptions (many insects for example are usually small enough they do not need long periods of time inactive to obtain the needed body temp) but none of them would seem to apply to the Xiticix. the Xiticix appear to be fairly active all the time, even when not swarming, regardless of the extreme temperature daily and seasonal changes found in the northern climate. which would suggest they are using a Homeothermic biology, even if not a true endothermic one.

so no matter what, when active they would show up quite well on thermal imaging. they would probably register as a different temp than a human, but they would show up.

[Shark_Force]

Eh well there goes that idea a bit. I would point out that cold blooded creatures do generate heat when active (see killer bees when preparing to swarm, and Japanese bees http://theoatmeal.com/comics/bees_vs_hornets ) just not when inactive. And yes in all likely hood the shots would be fired wildly into the forest, but the idea is to target the trees around the Xits not the xits themselves, namely to slow them down them and to clear out enough of any forested terrain to get line of sight. Perhaps a better idea would to set up plenty of explosives in the woods for remote detonations should any xits take cover there once the shooting starts. If you are able to choose your battle ground, then you should prepare it in your favor.

honestly, if i had an army consisting primarily of things that can shoot nearly 2 miles, i just wouldn't pick a fight in an area with a visibility range of a few hundred feet (unless my opponent had superior range i suppose).

or, in other words... why are the glitter boys in the forest in the first place? as the aggressors, you'd think they would choose a place to fight in that doesn't negate their advantages.

(and on a side note, even if they were fully cold-blooded, as i understand it they'd still show up on thermal simply because they absorb and radiate heat in a way that is not identical to their surroundings. even if they are identical in that aspect to, say, leaves, which would be pretty odd for something not even native to the same planet, they aren't going to be identical to the air (which probably actually has varying profiles based on humidity and such), or to rocks, or water, etc. heck, they probably aren't even identical in that aspect across their own body, to be honest... look at a thermal image of a human. even if part of us matched our environment perfectly somehow, the rest of us wouldn't).

[Killer Cyborg]

or, in other words... why are the glitter boys in the forest in the first place? as the aggressors, you'd think they would choose a place to fight in that doesn't negate their advantages.

I don't know if the idea was necessarily that the GBs are standing in the thick of a forest, but that there would likely be forested parts over at least of their 2 mile range.
This is probably because there have been a few hundred years without major logging industries, allowing forests to spring up in most uncivilized places that trees like to grow, and because the Xiticix tend to inhabit more that kind of region than they (so far) inhabit plains, barren flatlands, and deserts.

Without a full map of which xiticix exactly are being attacked, and what the current terrain and flora is like, we can't say for certain, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume some trees being around.

[dreicunan]

or, in other words... why are the glitter boys in the forest in the first place? as the aggressors, you'd think they would choose a place to fight in that doesn't negate their advantages.

I don't know if the idea was necessarily that the GBs are standing in the thick of a forest, but that there would likely be forested parts over at least of their 2 mile range.
This is probably because there have been a few hundred years without major logging industries, allowing forests to spring up in most uncivilized places that trees like to grow, and because the Xiticix tend to inhabit more that kind of region than they (so far) inhabit plains, barren flatlands, and deserts.

Without a full map of which xiticix exactly are being attacked, and what the current terrain and flora is like, we can't say for certain, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume some trees being around.

This leads me to wonder if the Coalition or FQ would be open to using defoliants like agent orange or other chemicals / fire bombing to eliminate the trees to prepare a killing field. We know that they don't use U-rounds to avoid environmental damage, but would they consider the Xiticix to be a big enough threat to do some short term environmental damage in pursuit of their destruction?

[Eagle]

With mega-damage weapons, they should just be able to gun down a whole lot of trees. A handful of guys with 2D6 MD lasers that can do sprays should be able to just hose down a forest and clear LOS pretty quickly.

[ShadowLogan]

or, in other words... why are the glitter boys in the forest in the first place? as the aggressors, you'd think they would choose a place to fight in that doesn't negate their advantages.

I don't know if the idea was necessarily that the GBs are standing in the thick of a forest, but that there would likely be forested parts over at least of their 2 mile range.
This is probably because there have been a few hundred years without major logging industries, allowing forests to spring up in most uncivilized places that trees like to grow, and because the Xiticix tend to inhabit more that kind of region than they (so far) inhabit plains, barren flatlands, and deserts.

Without a full map of which xiticix exactly are being attacked, and what the current terrain and flora is like, we can't say for certain, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume some trees being around.

It might also be a moot point and really does depend on specifics.

WB20pg73 (left column 3rd paragraph about 1/2 way in): "The Xiticix are also transforming the land, turning forest into an alien landscape covered with their sprawling, mushroom-like hive towers."

I don't have the Xiticix book to see if this gets expanded upon, but it does seem to at minimum suggest terraforming maybe going on in their territory.

[glitterboy2098]

the question is how far outside their hives that forest clearing goes. would need to be at least 2-3 miles given the GB's range.

and even then, i'd want to know whether that clearance of the forests is due to the xits just knocking them down to make space, or if it means they have tunnels stretching that far out. because if their tunnels are reaching out into the edge of the forests, there is a very good chance the GB pilots would get caught like Heinlein's Mobile Infantry at Klendathu (book version), with bugs assaulting an otherwise secure zone from beneath their feet.

[Axelmania]

I could only see the Xiticix felling a tree if they planned to build a tier on that spot. Which is worse since now there is MDC cover.