Boom Guns vs Bugs!

[Mack]

I’ve been toying around with the idea of Glitter Boys against Xiticix, trying to determine how effective a such a force (like part of a Free Quebec legion) would be. What follows is some of my preliminary findings.

I built a spreadsheet to model a Boom Gun being fired at the Xiticix most likely to be encountered in the wild. The spreadsheet randomly “rolls” the strike (1D20), the Boom Gun’s damage (3D6x10), and the Xiticix’s MDC. For the strike roll, I figured that after all the pilot’s bonuses were applied, and the penalties for the bug’s evasive flight, a die roll of 5+ would be a hit (with Nat 20’s being double damage). For the Xiticix’s MDC, I assumed the bug would be 4th level since they gain some with experience. With a wee-bit of copy/paste, I ran this scenario 40,000 times each for 4 different types of Xiticix. Here’s the results.

Against a Xiticix Warrior:
47.8% - Killed the bug.
32.3% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 25.9 MDC
20.0% - Missed the bug.

Against a Super Warrior:
10.4% - Killed the bug.
69.5% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 53.5 MDC
20.1% - Missed the bug.

Against a Leaper:
56.0% - Killed the bug.
24.1% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 20.7 MDC
19.9% - Missed the bug.

Against a Hunter:
66.8% - Killed the bug.
13.2% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 17.0 MDC
20.0% - Missed the bug.


Frankly, I was little surprised. Before I started, I expected the Boom Gun to generate more one-shot kills. I need to go back and verify that the strike roll only needs to be 5+… seems like when I first starting thinking about this I came up with only 3+. That would cut the misses in half.

[Blue_Lion]

I’ve been toying around with the idea of Glitter Boys against Xiticix, trying to determine how effective a such a force (like part of a Free Quebec legion) would be. What follows is some of my preliminary findings.

I built a spreadsheet to model a Boom Gun being fired at the Xiticix most likely to be encountered in the wild. The spreadsheet randomly “rolls” the strike (1D20), the Boom Gun’s damage (3D6x10), and the Xiticix’s MDC. For the strike roll, I figured that after all the pilot’s bonuses were applied, and the penalties for the bug’s evasive flight, a die roll of 5+ would be a hit (with Nat 20’s being double damage). For the Xiticix’s MDC, I assumed the bug would be 4th level since they gain some with experience. With a wee-bit of copy/paste, I ran this scenario 40,000 times each for 4 different types of Xiticix. Here’s the results.

Against a Xiticix Warrior:
47.8% - Killed the bug.
32.3% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 25.9 MDC
20.0% - Missed the bug.

Against a Super Warrior:
10.4% - Killed the bug.
69.5% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 53.5 MDC
20.1% - Missed the bug.

Against a Leaper:
56.0% - Killed the bug.
24.1% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 20.7 MDC
19.9% - Missed the bug.

Against a Hunter:
66.8% - Killed the bug.
13.2% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 17.0 MDC
20.0% - Missed the bug.


Frankly, I was little surprised. Before I started, I expected the Boom Gun to generate more one-shot kills. I need to go back and verify that the strike roll only needs to be 5+… seems like when I first starting thinking about this I came up with only 3+. That would cut the misses in half.

The boom gun uses modern weapon proficiency rules. PG 361 of RUE states it would hit on a roll including bonuses of 8 or higher to strike.
Did you take into count the penalty for a moving target on page 361, -1 -1(per 50 mph beyond 20)

The automatic fail rule is not present in RUE (use to be any natural roll 1-4 missed) so if you can find a way to get a bonus of 10 or higher you would have a 100% hit.

[Mack]

The boom gun uses modern weapon proficiency rules. PG 361 of RUE states it would hit on a roll including bonuses of 8 or higher to strike.
Did you take into count the penalty for a moving target on page 361, -1 -1(per 50 mph beyond 20)

The automatic fail rule is not present in RUE (use to be any natural roll 1-4 missed) so if you can find a way to get a bonus of 10 or higher you would have a 100% hit.

I started with 8, then applied the pilot's bonuses and the bug's flying speed & evasion. The result was 5+.

[Blue_Lion]

The boom gun uses modern weapon proficiency rules. PG 361 of RUE states it would hit on a roll including bonuses of 8 or higher to strike.
Did you take into count the penalty for a moving target on page 361, -1 -1(per 50 mph beyond 20)

The automatic fail rule is not present in RUE (use to be any natural roll 1-4 missed) so if you can find a way to get a bonus of 10 or higher you would have a 100% hit.

I started with 8, then applied the pilot's bonuses and the bug's flying speed & evasion. The result was 5+.

Then by the book your numbers appear correct. If you are saying a natural roll of 5+ resulted with modifiers a result of 8 or greater.(Saying 5+ made it sound like you where using the melee attack rule to me.)

[Mack]

Actually, went back and quickly went through the strike bonuses for a 4th level GB pilot (RUE version, not a Descended from FQ).

Bonuses:
+2 - HtH Combat Elite: Glitter Boy (p73)
+2 - WP Heavy MD Weapons (p361)
+2 - Advanced Laser Targeting (p73)
+2 - Aimed shot (p361)

Penalties: (all from p361)
-1 - Moving target
-2 - Flying at max speed
-1 - Evasive action

So starting with an 8 to strike, the pilot needs to only roll a 4 to hit the target. Toss that back into my spreadsheet, and the results change to:

Against a Xiticix Warrior:
51.0% - Killed the bug.
33.8% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 25.9 MDC
15.2% - Missed the bug.

Against a Super Warrior:
10.7% - Killed the bug.
74.3% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 52.8 MDC
15.0% - Missed the bug.

Against a Leaper:
59.9% - Killed the bug.
25.3% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 20.7 MDC
14.8% - Missed the bug.

Against a Hunter:
71.1% - Killed the bug.
13.9% - Wounded the bug, and left an average of 16.8 MDC
15.0% - Missed the bug.

When I get around to modeling a GB company, I'll use this data.

[Shark_Force]

so pair it up with some decent range AoE (say, something with a lot of short range missiles) and you would probably get most of them killed pretty easily.

[Mack]

so pair it up with some decent range AoE (say, something with a lot of short range missiles) and you would probably get most of them killed pretty easily.

My intent is to scale this up to an entire GB company (FQ p79). I've got some more work to do, but thus far they should be able to kill 350 Xiticix Warriors per melee round. For it to be sustainable, I'm avoiding weapons that consume ammo (like missiles) other than the Boom Gun.

The overall thought is to have a FQ company of GB raiders that cross into the bugs outer territory, slaughter a bunch, then skedaddle out before an overwhelming swarm is generated. So I'm working on how many bugs the company can handle before they get overwhelmed.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

interesting breakdown.

I assume you're going to be factoring in full support for the company (Reload Teams and Sidekicks?)?

[glitterboy2098]

how does it look if you don;t use the aimed shot? because IIRC aimed shots cost 2 attacks, and the GB pilot may not want to devote so much time to each shot, given the sheer numbers likely to be in a swarm.

is not taking aimed shots going to allow you to take down more bugs (even if your odds of the kill go down overall), or is the loss of accuracy going to render the extra attacks moot by making the odds of a hit and kill too low?

[Killer Cyborg]

(use to be any natural roll 1-4 missed)

No, not ever.
But let's start a new thread if you want to argue about that one.

[Mack]

how does it look if you don;t use the aimed shot? because IIRC aimed shots cost 2 attacks, and the GB pilot may not want to devote so much time to each shot, given the sheer numbers likely to be in a swarm.

is not taking aimed shots going to allow you to take down more bugs (even if your odds of the kill go down overall), or is the loss of accuracy going to render the extra attacks moot by making the odds of a hit and kill too low?

I did some math on that, and it's as one would expect. The pilot can shoot twice as often at the expense accuracy--add about 10% to the miss rate. (I don't have my spreadsheet handy at the moment.)

For now I'm keeping the GB to 4 aimed shots per round, and if things get frantic he can increase it to 8 quick shots. That gives the GB company an inherent reserve.

[Shark_Force]

so pair it up with some decent range AoE (say, something with a lot of short range missiles) and you would probably get most of them killed pretty easily.

My intent is to scale this up to an entire GB company (FQ p79). I've got some more work to do, but thus far they should be able to kill 350 Xiticix Warriors per melee round. For it to be sustainable, I'm avoiding weapons that consume ammo (like missiles) other than the Boom Gun.

The overall thought is to have a FQ company of GB raiders that cross into the bugs outer territory, slaughter a bunch, then skedaddle out before an overwhelming swarm is generated. So I'm working on how many bugs the company can handle before they get overwhelmed.

well, i don't think you have any good AoE weapon options with no ammo in the game unfortunately. although i don't own either of the new NG books or triax 2, so maybe i'm missing something.

that said, i do think if there's something with enough missiles to last for a while (even if it's just firing a volley of 2 missiles per melee round or something to avoid running out and using energy weapons the rest of the round), it would probably be worthwhile enough that it would be *really* hard to ignore. the AoE would just do so much in terms of softening up a group of bugs...

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

A few Taurus GBs in the company make for some nice, long-range, high-dispersal AoE damage. Air-bursting Mortars and all. If this is a full company with complete support (Reload Teams) each Taurus has about ~200 mortars.

[Blue_Lion]

so pair it up with some decent range AoE (say, something with a lot of short range missiles) and you would probably get most of them killed pretty easily.

My intent is to scale this up to an entire GB company (FQ p79). I've got some more work to do, but thus far they should be able to kill 350 Xiticix Warriors per melee round. For it to be sustainable, I'm avoiding weapons that consume ammo (like missiles) other than the Boom Gun.

The overall thought is to have a FQ company of GB raiders that cross into the bugs outer territory, slaughter a bunch, then skedaddle out before an overwhelming swarm is generated. So I'm working on how many bugs the company can handle before they get overwhelmed.

Looking at the surviving MDC If you pair them up with a PA that has a energy weapon tied to its power plant about half a mile ahead as a screening force they could pick off the ones that survive a hit.

With a high value unit like a GBs you want a screening force to flank or shoot down targets that make it through the fist hit. Perhaps 2 companies of standard PA with rail guns rotating out on bug shooting and reload to pick off survivors. Juicers would also make a good screening force but would need reload assets or in a pinch grunts.

[keir451]

You can also equip the GB with an energy weapon or a separate missile launcher to add to the damage count, increasing the percentage of kills. Also you could have two GB's target the same bug, thereby doubling the chance of a kill.

[Mack]

Finishing off the wounded is left to all the non-Boom Gun units in the company. In a typical FQ GB company, less than half the GBs have Boom Guns. Fortunately practically all of those have a decent energy weapons.

[Shark_Force]

in all likelihood, you're dealing with a swarming mass of xiticix. i'm not at all confident about being able to pick and choose targets.

that said, iirc a few of the glitter boy variants have some missiles, so they could probably help out there.

the real trick is how to keep the bugs from telling on you to the rest of the hive. i mean, if a group comes in looking like FQ units from the direction of FQ, i gotta figure the bugs are going to put 2 and 2 together fairly quickly, and then a retaliation swarm comes by for a visit.

i mean, a full company of glitter boys coming through seems like the sort of thing the bugs would respond to in ways that might not be too enjoyable

[guardiandashi]

in all likelihood, you're dealing with a swarming mass of xiticix. i'm not at all confident about being able to pick and choose targets.

that said, iirc a few of the glitter boy variants have some missiles, so they could probably help out there.

the real trick is how to keep the bugs from telling on you to the rest of the hive. i mean, if a group comes in looking like FQ units from the direction of FQ, i gotta figure the bugs are going to put 2 and 2 together fairly quickly, and then a retaliation swarm comes by for a visit.

i mean, a full company of glitter boys coming through seems like the sort of thing the bugs would respond to in ways that might not be too enjoyable

part of the "answer" there would be "how much of a jerk do your glitterboys want to be. if free Quebec is still on the outs with the rest of the coalition you do a diversion move during insertion and extraction IE you travel so that you come in at the hives from a direction that implies you were actually from the coalition. and let any counter attack swarm come after them.

[Mack]

One of the problems I'll have to sort out is how to define a swarm. There's no definitive answer (such as X bugs per minute arrive).

For that matter, I can't find any good numbers for how many of each type of Xiticix to expect. 80% Warriors, 10% Super Warriors, etc.

[Mack]

A few Taurus GBs in the company make for some nice, long-range, high-dispersal AoE damage. Air-bursting Mortars and all. If this is a full company with complete support (Reload Teams) each Taurus has about ~200 mortars.

The problem there is quantifying the reload speed. The Taurus can easily empty both mortars in a melee round, but we don't know how long he has to wait before he can do it again.

Additionally, quantifying AoE weapons are a challenge because I have to know the density of the swarm (did he frag 2 or 10 bugs?).

My intent is to have the Taurus use his special laser cannons which bypass the reload problem and still have respectable damage.

[Axelmania]

Actually, went back and quickly went through the strike bonuses for a 4th level GB pilot (RUE version, not a Descended from FQ).

Bonuses:
+2 - HtH Combat Elite: Glitter Boy (p73)
+2 - WP Heavy MD Weapons (p361)
+2 - Advanced Laser Targeting (p73)
+2 - Aimed shot (p361)
.

Wasn't aware 4-row bursts could get increased accuracy via an aim maneuver. The "aimed burst" phrase I think is just meant to mean a non-wild burst.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Actually, went back and quickly went through the strike bonuses for a 4th level GB pilot (RUE version, not a Descended from FQ).

Bonuses:
+2 - HtH Combat Elite: Glitter Boy (p73)
+2 - WP Heavy MD Weapons (p361)
+2 - Advanced Laser Targeting (p73)
+2 - Aimed shot (p361)
.

Wasn't aware 4-row bursts could get increased accuracy via an aim maneuver. The "aimed burst" phrase I think is just meant to mean a non-wild burst.

/asciipicard

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

A few Taurus GBs in the company make for some nice, long-range, high-dispersal AoE damage. Air-bursting Mortars and all. If this is a full company with complete support (Reload Teams) each Taurus has about ~200 mortars.

The problem there is quantifying the reload speed. The Taurus can easily empty both mortars in a melee round, but we don't know how long he has to wait before he can do it again.

Additionally, quantifying AoE weapons are a challenge because I have to know the density of the swarm (did he frag 2 or 10 bugs?).

My intent is to have the Taurus use his special laser cannons which bypass the reload problem and still have respectable damage.

Thats fair. Odd that the reload time isn't listed. The implication seems to be that they just drop a new round in as soon as one is fired, but there's no statement of that.

I might go with one laser and one Double-Up (the Reload Team assigned to the Taurus carries one for when the Mortars run dry, by default). The extra 2000ft of range on the explosive rounds from the Double-Up might be useful. Either way, doesn't seem like a bad plan.

Edit: Apparently, FQ also has at least SOME X-700 "Fat Boy" GBs (Triax 2 - pg 118, under cost "Not available outside the NGR Army, except Free Quebec, where it has yet to be revealed to the public".

Also, did you take into account that any T-550s in the company can set their Boom Guns to computer control, and the pilot can use other weapons (and they are issued a TX-50 or TX-500 by default)?

[Axelmania]

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

Actually two people believe this, me and Kevin Siembieda.

[Blue_Lion]

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

Actually two people believe this, me and Kevin Siembieda.

I would advise you not to speak about what some one else believes on a subject. There is no evidence to support it and it is poor form to steal some ones name to make your point look legit.

PG 72 RUE-on the GB boom gun.
" Meaga damage One boom gun round holds 200 slugs that infict a massive 3d6X10 MD. "
" Rate of Fire: Each booming blast counts as one melee attack/action. Bursts and sprays are not possible! "

PG 349 Rue C-50R enforcer rail gun.
" Mega damage a burst is 80 rounds and inflicts 1d6X10 MD one round does 1d6 MD."
" Rate of Fire Each burst counts as one of the gunners attacks per melee."
240 C40r rail gun
"A burst 40 rounds and inflicts,.."
"Each burst counts as one mellee attack."
PG 251 C100r
A burst is 80 rounds and...
Each burst counts as



So Kevin Siemieda just said that the Boom gun can not fire a burst. He also did not stat the damage like does when something is a burst. He also talks about the number of rounds in burst but a GB fires only 1 round.

That means your claim that a Boom gun is firing burst is in direct conflict with the currant rule that they can not fire burst. So a claim that Kevin Siemba thinks it is doing burst is not only unproven but in conflict with what he wrote in RUE.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

Actually two people believe this, me and Kevin Siembieda.

You keep saying that, and keep not providing one iota of canon proof. Lets not derail Mack's thread though.

[Mack]

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

Actually two people believe this, me and Kevin Siembieda.

We not going to revisit that debate in this topic. It's already in another.

Note - I'm usually reluctant to use my red 'moderator voice' in a topic that I'm active posting in. But for this I'll make an exception.

[Blue_Lion]

So it does appear your numbers are right by currant rules.

If the goal was to come up with a plan for fighting for a company of GBs the next step might be to look at what support troops they would have been deployed with.

so we are looking at what would FQ deploy with 120-160 GBs.
How many samas.
How many sidekick.
How many variant X and which ones.
How dismounts.(grunts)
What support elements and how many (reload team transports.)
What combat vehicles.
what other PA.

then look at deployment for upcoming battle.

[Axelmania]

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

Actually two people believe this, me and Kevin Siembieda.

We not going to revisit that debate in this topic. It's already in another.

Note - I'm usually reluctant to use my red 'moderator voice' in a topic that I'm active posting in. But for this I'll make an exception.

I see a conflict of interest here because you were the one who brought up spending an action to aim.

We can put this aside because I do believe boom guns can make aimed and called shots, since they are "rapid" weapons. I just see +2 to strike and half strike bonuses as rarely useful. If strike penalties reduced your bonuses to 0 it is slightly useful but I would still limit it to surprise attacks.

I think if you are going to spend 2 attacks per blast that Called Shot could be a better idea. Hit the wings, doesn't matter if they don't die, you bought the time you need. I don't think most can run at 60mph.

Not sure the MDC of the TK Rifle but called shot on that could destroy or disarm it which is potentially more useful, since slain bugs can have allies take up their TK Rifles.

[Blue_Lion]

You're literally the only person who believes that the Boom Gun is firing a burst. Just stop.

Actually two people believe this, me and Kevin Siembieda.

We not going to revisit that debate in this topic. It's already in another.

Note - I'm usually reluctant to use my red 'moderator voice' in a topic that I'm active posting in. But for this I'll make an exception.

I see a conflict of interest here because you were the one who brought up spending an action to aim.

We can put this aside because I do believe boom guns can make aimed and called shots, since they are "rapid" weapons. I just see +2 to strike and half strike bonuses as rarely useful. If strike penalties reduced your bonuses to 0 it is slightly useful but I would still limit it to surprise attacks.

I think if you are going to spend 2 attacks per blast that Called Shot could be a better idea. Hit the wings, doesn't matter if they don't die, you bought the time you need. I don't think most can run at 60mph.

Not sure the MDC of the TK Rifle but called shot on that could destroy or disarm it which is potentially more useful, since slain bugs can have allies take up their TK Rifles.

(I think his point was not to make this a debate about a boom gun firing burst.)

A +2 is about a 10% improvement in hit chance.
A called shot is about a penalty 20% to hit to fire a shot that will only slow your foe never kill. (so you have about 1/3 the bugs making past your first shot unharmed.)

Using aimed shots is about effective use of limited resource ammo why make every bug take 2+shots to kill doubling your cost to clear the field.
(Just because your max speed is X does not mean that is a speed that is safe to travel in all terrain.)

Glitter boys are best in times where you need to defend a set location or need to strike a set location.(so a slow swarm would still need addressed) samas are best when you need to shoot and scoot.

So odds are if you are using GB to shoot down a swarm of bugs you do not want to do a shoot and scoot but remove the threat.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

GBs, supported the way FQ uses them, are actually pretty mobile. The GB6-96 Sky Hawk can transport 16 or 17GBs (depending on if you round up or down on the "extra 25% but is cramped", i would call down, and say 16) in one go, and can hit over 400mph.

Four of the GBs can even fire while the craft is coming into a hot LZ or taking off to provide cover.

And i think what Mack is going for is "get in, raise a stink, shoot bugs till they start to swarm to the point where we cant kill them fast enough, and then get out".

I'd have to dig out Xiticix book, but i dont think GBs are in any real danger of being chased down if they can mount up on most vehicles and an escape route has been prepared. (They also fit in Mark V APCs, which FQ has plenty of).

[Shark_Force]

one other thing i would consider: while it probably shouldn't be terribly common, there should be some chance that the particular bug you're shooting at has already taken some damage.

though on the down side, you should also consider the resin armour they sometimes use.

the problem with assuming that you can just easily escape the bugs is that the bugs also dig tunnels, so if you're in their territory there is not only no guarantee they won't be showing up behind you, but it's probably actually rare for them to not be showing up behind you if you are doing enough damage to make them legitimately angry.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

one other thing i would consider: while it probably shouldn't be terribly common, there should be some chance that the particular bug you're shooting at has already taken some damage.

though on the down side, you should also consider the resin armour they sometimes use.

the problem with assuming that you can just easily escape the bugs is that the bugs also dig tunnels, so if you're in their territory there is not only no guarantee they won't be showing up behind you, but it's probably actually rare for them to not be showing up behind you if you are doing enough damage to make them legitimately angry.

They dont dig tunnels THAT fast. You'd have to be fairly deep in to Xiticix territory to be standing on top of a tunnel complex. They dont extend THAT far from the hives.

[Greepnak]

I allow spare damage from really large blasts to "cleave" d20-esquely to nearby enemies with another strike roll at no bonuses, with a little common sensical logic applied based on what kind of char is doing that damage.

For a boom gun, if the next bug is behind the first and 80 damage would just evaporate into nothing, I'll let that move on. Combat vs swarms gets icky if you dont have some specific AoE stuff like a high level lock or missilebot but this helps my samurai smash types not feel useless.

I actually have an NPC glitterboy squad I call "Trouble Team" that works the xiticix problem among other things.

[Blue_Lion]

one other thing i would consider: while it probably shouldn't be terribly common, there should be some chance that the particular bug you're shooting at has already taken some damage.

though on the down side, you should also consider the resin armour they sometimes use.

the problem with assuming that you can just easily escape the bugs is that the bugs also dig tunnels, so if you're in their territory there is not only no guarantee they won't be showing up behind you, but it's probably actually rare for them to not be showing up behind you if you are doing enough damage to make them legitimately angry.

I would think the problem with assuming you can escape is when a group comes from the direction you want to travel.
I can see bugs using a tactic like circling you and moving in from all sides.
They could also fly map of the earth to get in close using terrain cover. They do seam to know about range weapons.

I wonder what would happen if a hunter or super warrior came in low and from behind with a resin gun to shoot the back of the GB.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

one other thing i would consider: while it probably shouldn't be terribly common, there should be some chance that the particular bug you're shooting at has already taken some damage.

though on the down side, you should also consider the resin armour they sometimes use.

the problem with assuming that you can just easily escape the bugs is that the bugs also dig tunnels, so if you're in their territory there is not only no guarantee they won't be showing up behind you, but it's probably actually rare for them to not be showing up behind you if you are doing enough damage to make them legitimately angry.

I would think the problem with assuming you can escape is when a group comes from the direction you want to travel.
I can see bugs using a tactic like circling you and moving in from all sides.

Sure, but GB's have air cover as FQ deploys them, who can spot the bugs coming from quite a ways away.

They could also fly map of the earth to get in close using terrain cover. They do seam to know about range weapons.

Nape. Nape of the earth. Seem, not seam. Unless you're saying they sew up knowledge about guns.

Yeah, they're not stupid, i agree. Nape of the earth doesn't work against air-mobile Radar, though. Its a tactic to get below the radar given off by radar defense towers, which are generally located near the ground. A radar system looking down on you from above will see plain as day.

Again, im not saying the bugs wont try it (they probably will), and im not saying it wouldn't force the GBs to pick up stakes and fall back earlier than perhaps planned (it would). I just wouldn't expect it to be terribly successful at doing much other than forcing them to leave/fall back early. Those flying GB transports are pretty amazenuts.

I wonder what would happen if a hunter or super warrior came in low and from behind with a resin gun to shoot the back of the GB.

The Sidekicks whose job it is to watch their backs would shoot the bejeezus out of it. That's literally their job. (Also, any GiGi's and Silver Wolf GBs, too - they dont have to plant pylons to fire their weapons and could turn and confront anything from the rear instantly).

Remember, what Mack is talking about here is a full GB company as FQ deploys them.

That means somewhere between 120-200 GBs, a full complement of Reload Teams for those GBs, a full compliment of Sidekicks for those GBs, and air support (Pale Death and V-Sams).

Its a pretty tough nut to crack for any force.

[glitterboy2098]

(i put pulse/burst because there are still a lot of older books that use 'burst' when they otherwise would be pulse going by description and damage.)

[Eagle]

Nape. Nape of the earth. Seem, not seam. Unless you're saying they sew up knowledge about guns.

Actually, it's nap of the earth.

[Blue_Lion]

Nape. Nape of the earth. Seem, not seam. Unless you're saying they sew up knowledge about guns.

Actually, it's nap of the earth.

When you fly low you can hide in ground clutter so even air mobile radar can have a hard time tracking you. It also gives you the advantage that you can place solid terrain between you and the boom gun.

(By the way you are not his teacher )

[Axelmania]

If a GB is providing long-range support to troops who are nearly being set upon than the bugs, another advantage to called shots is that they won't trigger the death stench.

I think it's better to use 1 shot to make a flying bug fall than to need 2 shots to kill it, particularly since it might duck for cover after the first shot and you might not be able to finish it... the damage can be healed back faster than it takes to regrow a wing.

Conserving ammo is less of a deal with 1000 payload compared to 100, and GB ammo finally being established as rather cheap. You could hire a local city rat to have the job of jamming shots into your 1-at-a-time slot at the back if need be.

[glitterboy2098]

soo.. you like GB's making called shots.

but you insist they fire bursts.

which means they can't do called shots.

[Blue_Lion]

If a GB is providing long-range support to troops who are nearly being set upon than the bugs, another advantage to called shots is that they won't trigger the death stench.

I think it's better to use 1 shot to make a flying bug fall than to need 2 shots to kill it, particularly since it might duck for cover after the first shot and you might not be able to finish it... the damage can be healed back faster than it takes to regrow a wing.

Conserving ammo is less of a deal with 1000 payload compared to 100, and GB ammo finally being established as rather cheap. You could hire a local city rat to have the job of jamming shots into your 1-at-a-time slot at the back if need be.

Other than super warrior most bugs are killed over half the time.
With called shots you loose about 10% hit chance. -10 for not doing a aimed shot that means even without a penalty for hitting something hard to hit you have a miss chance of about 1/3 the time. In addition if something stalls your movement you still have to deal with the bugs when they catch up to you.

If the goal is to cull a swarm, or smash a hive then you are wasting ammo. Your theory only works if the goal is simply to escape an attack. If you are employing a large unit to fight the bugs the goal is not lily to simply escape but inflict damage to a swarm or hive.

Just because the GB has a large payload does not mean it is smart to wast ammo. IN addition to needing resuplied if you are dealing with a swarm you could very well need every round. If you wast rounds shooting down and not killing bugs and another wave hems you in you could still get swarmed by running bugs you left alive.

[Axelmania]

soo.. you like GB's making called shots. but you insist they fire bursts. which means they can't do called shots.

I believe in the Megaversal Rules System. Shadow Chronicles 240 tweaked the wording of rapid pulses (which can do called shots at 1/2 bonuses) from RUE 361 to bursts/rapid pulses, so I believe the "Rapid" Acceleration Electromagnetic Railgun falls under that guideline as a Heavy Energy Weapon, and can do called shots with aimed bursts at 1/2 bonuses.

If a GB is providing long-range support to troops who are nearly being set upon than the bugs, another advantage to called shots is that they won't trigger the death stench.

I think it's better to use 1 shot to make a flying bug fall than to need 2 shots to kill it, particularly since it might duck for cover after the first shot and you might not be able to finish it... the damage can be healed back faster than it takes to regrow a wing.

Conserving ammo is less of a deal with 1000 payload compared to 100, and GB ammo finally being established as rather cheap. You could hire a local city rat to have the job of jamming shots into your 1-at-a-time slot at the back if need be.

Other than super warrior most bugs are killed over half the time.
With called shots you loose about 10% hit chance. -10 for not doing a aimed shot that means even without a penalty for hitting something hard to hit you have a miss chance of about 1/3 the time. In addition if something stalls your movement you still have to deal with the bugs when they catch up to you.

If the goal is to cull a swarm, or smash a hive then you are wasting ammo. Your theory only works if the goal is simply to escape an attack. If you are employing a large unit to fight the bugs the goal is not lily to simply escape but inflict damage to a swarm or hive.

Just because the GB has a large payload does not mean it is smart to wast ammo. IN addition to needing resuplied if you are dealing with a swarm you could very well need every round. If you wast rounds shooting down and not killing bugs and another wave hems you in you could still get swarmed by running bugs you left alive.

I am mostly thinking about situations where you can retreat and use mobility advantages, yes.

Otherwise, my prime argument for using called shots would be destroying TK Rifles. Those are arguably one of the greater dangers from the Xiticix. Simply shooting the portion of bugs wielding them doesn't solve the problem since other bugs can pick up the guns from the ground and begin firing from cover.

If a bug with the TK rifle is exposed, better to destroy the gun immediately, to prevent its salvage and reuse later. A surviving bug is less of a big deal, because other troops with lower-range weapons can finish off the bug now that it has lost its range advantage.

[Blue_Lion]

You are thinking small scale engagements like PC have this is war with army.
The point of having the GB shoot them is to thin the swarm. The wounded ones could be dealt with by lesser units.
If you shoot the one with the gun and another dives for the gun shoot the one going for the gun.

Your tatatic would waste resources increase misses and still leave bugs to deal with.

By the time the evasive bugs get in to range to use there weapons how many did the 120 to 200 GB kill?

Lets say the swarm had 1100 bugs, traveling at 90 MPH(do not have xit book with me so going off stats from rifts rpg) with a range of 1 mile(the TK rifle range is less than that. You have a no threat kill range of a GB of 1 mile. That means you have nearly 3 full rounds(40 seconds) of unchallenged kill time. If each GB kills only 2 per rounds you would have killed between 720-1200 bugs. So nearly the whole swarm would be dead before they get in weapon range.

[kaid]

so pair it up with some decent range AoE (say, something with a lot of short range missiles) and you would probably get most of them killed pretty easily.

The big problem is swarm size. If the swarm is large enough you run into the potential issue of you kill the hell out of them as they attempt to close range but just can't kill enough of them fast enough to keep them from melee. Enough bugs could swamp GB pretty bad if they can somehow survive to get to melee.

For most smaller swarms though a couple squads of GB if they see them at a range would rip them to pieces.

[Axelmania]

This isn't taking tree cover into account. I could fire the boom gun at bugs flying above tree level, but if they drop the gun then a bug under the cover of trees could get the gun and I couldn't shoot them because I can't see them. They could also come back at a later date and salvage the gun if they scent-tagged it, which would be a sensible precaution incased they ever got disarmed.

[J_cobbers]

This isn't taking tree cover into account. I could fire the boom gun at bugs flying above tree level, but if they drop the gun then a bug under the cover of trees could get the gun and I couldn't shoot them because I can't see them. They could also come back at a later date and salvage the gun if they scent-tagged it, which would be a sensible precaution incased they ever got disarmed.

Depending on the heat signature of the bugs and line of sight, a GB, or any PA really, could switch to thermal imaging to track and target the bugs when they drop into the the woods. Also MD vs SDC trees means hypersonic railgun clear cutting the woods they drop into is a viable option. You'd have literally tons of trees falling over on them slowing them down if not trapping or killing some that try to take shelter in the forest.

[Shark_Force]

This isn't taking tree cover into account. I could fire the boom gun at bugs flying above tree level, but if they drop the gun then a bug under the cover of trees could get the gun and I couldn't shoot them because I can't see them. They could also come back at a later date and salvage the gun if they scent-tagged it, which would be a sensible precaution incased they ever got disarmed.

Depending on the heat signature of the bugs and line of sight, a GB, or any PA really, could switch to thermal imaging to track and target the bugs when they drop into the the woods. Also MD vs SDC trees means hypersonic railgun clear cutting the woods they drop into is a viable option. You'd have literally tons of trees falling over on them slowing them down if not trapping or killing some that try to take shelter in the forest.

i'm pretty sure that while you could do that, you couldn't do that at 11,000 foot range. i mean, thermal will probably make the bugs stand out pretty good when there's not trees directly between you and them, but it doesn't see through trees. or most things in general really.

[Killer Cyborg]

This isn't taking tree cover into account. I could fire the boom gun at bugs flying above tree level, but if they drop the gun then a bug under the cover of trees could get the gun and I couldn't shoot them because I can't see them. They could also come back at a later date and salvage the gun if they scent-tagged it, which would be a sensible precaution incased they ever got disarmed.

Depending on the heat signature of the bugs and line of sight, a GB, or any PA really, could switch to thermal imaging to track and target the bugs when they drop into the the woods. Also MD vs SDC trees means hypersonic railgun clear cutting the woods they drop into is a viable option. You'd have literally tons of trees falling over on them slowing them down if not trapping or killing some that try to take shelter in the forest.

RMB 223
GB Thermo-Imager
Range 2000'

XI 68
Xiticix Warrior
The average flying speed is 120 (82 mph).

A speed of 120 can move 2400 yards per minute, or 600 yards per melee, or 1800' per melee.
With 5 attacks per melee, a level 1 Xiticix Warrior could cover 2000' in 1 melee round, and part of one attack the next round.

Trees falling may or may not fall on any bugs. It would depend on too many factors to say here.

Falling trees may damage bugs.
RGMG 64
Rock Slide/Log Fall inflicts 1d4 MD to every soldier, bot, or vehicle in the area.

But that's not likely to kill any bugs.

Also, keep in mind that in addition to 360 degree peripheral vision, Xiticix are typically able to detect a rapily approaching object or attack from behind or the side within 12': +1 init, +1 dodge.
They have a natural +1 to dodge from combat bonuses.
They also have an average PP of 19 (+2 strike, parry, and dodge)
So they have a + 4 bonus to dodge any debris. Not astounding, but not too shabby.

But if a treetop does fall on a bug...

XI 68
Xiticix Warrior
PS 2d6+24
All physical attributes are considered supernatural, including PS.

The average Xiticix Warrior has a Supernatural PS of 31.
As per RUE 286, that means that the average Xiticix Warrior can carry 1,550 lbs, and can lift 3,100 lbs.

The weight of a tree varies by tree type and size.
http://temporaryrepair.com/blog/2013/9/ ... ree-weight
An 80 foot hardwood tree with a 24” diameter has a weight that can exceed 20,000 pounds.
A 50-foot pine tree with a 12” diameter has a weight of more than 2000 pounds.

Note that the entire weight of a 50' pine tree is less than 2/3 of what a Xiticix Warrior can lift.
The entire weight of an 80' oak with a 24" diameter trunk can be over 20,000 lbs, far more than a Xiticix Warrior can lift... but that's for the entire tree.
IF a tree's weight was distributed evenly throughout the height of the tree, THEN the top 20' of such a tree would weigh around 5,000 lbs. Still more than a Xiticix Warrior can lift, but a tree's weight is not distributed evenly throughout its height--not even close.
Trees narrow so much toward the top, that I'm going to have to guess (feel free to come up with a better educated guess if you can) that the top 20' of an 80' oak tree would weigh well under 3,100 lbs, the lifting weight of a Xiticix Warrior.

I don't think it's likely that a bug would be pinned by the tops of trees being blown off, unless they were flying well under the tops of the trees, like more than 1/4 of the way down to the ground.
And they were hit by the section of wood in the first place.
And they were knocked to the ground.
And they were large trees.
And they were hardwoods.
And more than one treetop landed on the bug.

[Natasha]

how does it look if you don;t use the aimed shot? because IIRC aimed shots cost 2 attacks, and the GB pilot may not want to devote so much time to each shot, given the sheer numbers likely to be in a swarm.

is not taking aimed shots going to allow you to take down more bugs (even if your odds of the kill go down overall), or is the loss of accuracy going to render the extra attacks moot by making the odds of a hit and kill too low?

I did some math on that, and it's as one would expect. The pilot can shoot twice as often at the expense accuracy--add about 10% to the miss rate. (I don't have my spreadsheet handy at the moment.)

For now I'm keeping the GB to 4 aimed shots per round, and if things get frantic he can increase it to 8 quick shots. That gives the GB company an inherent reserve.

To score 4 aimed shots in a combat round is 52% (rolling 4-20 inclusive, 85%) while to score 4 out of 8 quick shots is 32% (6-20 inclusive, 75%)?