Manual over-ride for guided or smart missiles?

[Axelmania]

RUE 364 mentions:

most self-guided missiles are preprogrammed to respond to specific images (video camera/sensor mounted in the nose of the warhead), or specific heat or radiation levels which clearly identify the enemy.

The idea of a camera mounted in the nose of a missile made me remember this gem: http://unreal.wikia.com/wiki/Redeemer

It involved a person remote-viewing the missile's line-of-sight (I believe via a camera inside the launcher) allowing them to choose targets that they were not aware of upon first launching the missile.

Since nose-mounted cameras are already a thing, I'm wondering what ideas people have for existing mechanics that could firstly allow a character to view what the missile is viewing, and secondly allow a character to override the programming and choose its path instead.

Normally, it seems like the only input you have on a self-guided missile's target is pre-launch, I'm looking for post-launch control similar to the Redeemer.

Presently there is one system already set up for this, the NE-300 OMAV Combat Pod on Mercenaries 128, which can control via vid screen up to 5 NE-010 Destructo-Drones (pg 126) but their 3D6x10 (once on par with 2 LRMs, the Plasma/Heat (Heavy) and Nuclear (Heavy), only inferior to the 4D6x10 available from Proton Torpedo (Heavy) and Nuclear Multi-Warhead) didn't get a CWC/RUE boost to missile damages to x100 tier, so it seems less worth the 1/4 million price tag.

Could psychics present another route? For example if you were within 5 feet of a machine to initiate Telemechanics (RUE 183) prior to launching it, would that let you see its computer feed for 10 minutes?

Regarding an actual over-ride, I'm not clear whether (184) Telemechanic Mental Operation or Telemechanic Possession would be appropriate. I'm leaning to Possession but that would make it a pretty dangerous tactic, since you'd lose 1/3 your HP if someone shot the missile down, or if you didn't evacuate in time before it exploded on your chosen target.

If you did have to evacuate before impact, I wonder if that should incur some kind of strike roll penalty since you can't make any last-minute adjustments? You could always make last-minute adjustments with the Redeemer.

Outside of the Super Psi, I'm wondering if touching a missile and using Machine Ghost (RUE 173) would allow you to see what the camera sees...

Also in terms of range limitations, since Machine Ghost allows you to 'mentally enter' and 'project into' the machine, I'm thinking that you would qualify as being Range: Touch for it, allowing you to wait until you see something interesting to activate the appropriate Super Psi control powers. This would also mean being able to use Telemechanic Paralysis against any missiles targeting your smart missile to shoot it down, since it has a 40 foot range. This could also be used to shut down a robot just before you have your missile hit, perhaps shutting down a protective force field and preventing them from dodging or doing a block-sacrifice.

[Blue_Lion]

In my house rules for weapon creation I do use more than unguided or self guided.
I allow a single missile to be flown by wire for SRM or radio for MRM and LRM. However it would require the missile be preset up for it and the guidance system be present as well. So I would not allow you just over ride it as part of the attack but would need to have it preset up that way.(not missile strike rules applied as normal.)

Non standard guidance systems I use.
1 Heat seeking +1 can be applied to mini missiles but only tracks fire elementals, air craft, anything with a nuclear power source or high heat signature.
2 Self position tracking no bonus programed to fly to a certain location to strike (minimal guidance requirement for MRM and LRM without weapon systems skill has wild shot penalty).
3 fly by wire or radio +2 to strike but limited to just 1 missile at a time.(requires the skill Weapon systems to use)
4 Target lock require a lock on with radar but works similar to self positioning tracker just with the coarse set by the targeting comp +2 when lock is active.(skill Weapon systems required to use)

[ShadowLogan]

Since nose-mounted cameras are already a thing, I'm wondering what ideas people have for existing mechanics that could firstly allow a character to view what the missile is viewing, and secondly allow a character to override the programming and choose its path instead.

Weapon Systems Skill Roll followed by a Read Sensory Instruments (maybe even Optic Systems if its camera based) Roll to access the sensor of the missile to see what it sees.

In order to override the programming. On the fly, NOT going to happen. You can update the options with a computer programming AND computer hacking roll. Maybe even another roll to make sure you have the proper sensor data to feed in.

Now turning it into a remote operated system. I'd probably just lump it under Weapon Systems to initiate a manual flight control, apply strike penalties.

The use of psychic powers while possible, I'd probably keep limited.

Could psychics present another route? For example if you were within 5 feet of a machine to initiate Telemechanics (RUE 183) prior to launching it, would that let you see its computer feed for 10 minutes?

IMHO. Unless the missile is communicating with the launcher, once it is launched and more than the required distance away the Psychic loses the connection. If the launcher communicates with the missile, then yes the Psychic could "piggy back" on the connection.

If you did have to evacuate before impact, I wonder if that should incur some kind of strike roll penalty since you can't make any last-minute adjustments? You could always make last-minute adjustments with the Redeemer.

That seems reasonable that a strike penalty would be incurred AND/OR a dodge bonus for the target.

[Blue_Lion]

Since nose-mounted cameras are already a thing, I'm wondering what ideas people have for existing mechanics that could firstly allow a character to view what the missile is viewing, and secondly allow a character to override the programming and choose its path instead.

Weapon Systems Skill Roll followed by a Read Sensory Instruments (maybe even Optic Systems if its camera based) Roll to access the sensor of the missile to see what it sees.

In order to override the programming. On the fly, NOT going to happen. You can update the options with a computer programming AND computer hacking roll. Maybe even another roll to make sure you have the proper sensor data to feed in.

Now turning it into a remote operated system. I'd probably just lump it under Weapon Systems to initiate a manual flight control, apply strike penalties.

The use of psychic powers while possible, I'd probably keep limited.

Could psychics present another route? For example if you were within 5 feet of a machine to initiate Telemechanics (RUE 183) prior to launching it, would that let you see its computer feed for 10 minutes?

IMHO. Unless the missile is communicating with the launcher, once it is launched and more than the required distance away the Psychic loses the connection. If the launcher communicates with the missile, then yes the Psychic could "piggy back" on the connection.

If you did have to evacuate before impact, I wonder if that should incur some kind of strike roll penalty since you can't make any last-minute adjustments? You could always make last-minute adjustments with the Redeemer.

That seems reasonable that a strike penalty would be incurred AND/OR a dodge bonus for the target.

Do you require a pilot of a PA to make a pilot PA and read sensor equipment to shoot a target?(because that is what your make every possible skill check approach would be like applied to PA shooting)
Skill checks in my opinion should be limited to the 1 most relevant skill, requiring chain skill checks is a penalty to players being creative or using skills and is inconsistent with how PA combat works. (penalties for lack of related required skills. Read sensory equipment is typically for finding a target on sensors when you do not know where they are.)

[taalismn]

Now you got me thinking of a specialist(or upgrade to one of my existing designs) full conversion cyborg with an optical nerve feed from an appropriately-equipped missile...
Or even a forward spotter taking the 'handoff' of a missile from an attack aircraft to guide a missile into a particularly difficult target(like the entrance tunnel to a bunker or a shielded emplacement...from his angle, the FS can see the obstacle(or better target) and switching over to missile POV plot an optimal course for the ordnance to come in on.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Far as I know there are no missiles that accept post-launch guidance from the launcher in the canon texts.

I might be incorrect. But I doubt it the way the PB missile rules are written.

[taalismn]

Far as I know there are no missiles that accept post-launch guidance from the launcher in the canon texts.

I might be incorrect. But I doubt it the way the PB missile rules are written.

Nope. They're fire and forget types. No wire-guided missiles either(they're ancient tech).

Kitsune has some command guidance rules on his websitehttp://kitsunesden.xyz/Rifts/Rifts-Missiles/weapguid.htm

[Axelmania]

Is the range for the 4 telemechanics powers necessary for the entire duration or simply for initiation?

Does telekinetic force field disappear if the psychic steps out of range? Does a carpet of adhesion?

[ShadowLogan]

Since nose-mounted cameras are already a thing, I'm wondering what ideas people have for existing mechanics that could firstly allow a character to view what the missile is viewing, and secondly allow a character to override the programming and choose its path instead.

Weapon Systems Skill Roll followed by a Read Sensory Instruments (maybe even Optic Systems if its camera based) Roll to access the sensor of the missile to see what it sees.

In order to override the programming. On the fly, NOT going to happen. You can update the options with a computer programming AND computer hacking roll. Maybe even another roll to make sure you have the proper sensor data to feed in.

Now turning it into a remote operated system. I'd probably just lump it under Weapon Systems to initiate a manual flight control, apply strike penalties.

The use of psychic powers while possible, I'd probably keep limited.

Could psychics present another route? For example if you were within 5 feet of a machine to initiate Telemechanics (RUE 183) prior to launching it, would that let you see its computer feed for 10 minutes?

IMHO. Unless the missile is communicating with the launcher, once it is launched and more than the required distance away the Psychic loses the connection. If the launcher communicates with the missile, then yes the Psychic could "piggy back" on the connection.

If you did have to evacuate before impact, I wonder if that should incur some kind of strike roll penalty since you can't make any last-minute adjustments? You could always make last-minute adjustments with the Redeemer.

That seems reasonable that a strike penalty would be incurred AND/OR a dodge bonus for the target.

Do you require a pilot of a PA to make a pilot PA and read sensor equipment to shoot a target?(because that is what your make every possible skill check approach would be like applied to PA shooting)
Skill checks in my opinion should be limited to the 1 most relevant skill, requiring chain skill checks is a penalty to players being creative or using skills and is inconsistent with how PA combat works. (penalties for lack of related required skills. Read sensory equipment is typically for finding a target on sensors when you do not know where they are.)

I think your Pilot RPA and RSI to shoot example is a bit of poor example since that is something that could be seen as "regular expected use" and proficient at, allowing one skill roll and done. This is not really an instance where (example) the RPA pilot would be proficient at using the imaging cameras in missiles to "see", so yes I do see the need for two skill rolls. Now if the RPA pilot in this example became proficient at its use (or practiced its use or the player could justify it as being something the character should be proficient at), I could see reducing it down to a single skill check. But as a on-the-spot idea I would probably go with multiple rolls (they get XP for idea, plus the skill checks, and whatever else might be appropriate).

Far as I know there are no missiles that accept post-launch guidance from the launcher in the canon texts.

There aren't any examples that I can think of that allow one to change the target post-launch other than maybe Naruni Destructo-Drones (and I haven't looked at them recently to say for sure), but those are hardly normal.

Though in the case of guided missiles they might still be effectively communicating in practice, just not stated. Anything that uses a laser designator for guidance probably can change targets (time permitting of course), though the details of how various guided missiles work is generally lacking (making it a GM call really in how they want to handle it).

Is the range for the 4 telemechanics powers necessary for the entire duration or simply for initiation?

Does telekinetic force field disappear if the psychic steps out of range? Does a carpet of adhesion?

For Telemechanics it is the duration IMHO. Though the text doesn't state one way or the other, so more of a GM's call in this case.

Both psychic TK:FF and magic CoA text descriptions answer your questions (they remain in place).

[guardiandashi]

Is the range for the 4 telemechanics powers necessary for the entire duration or simply for initiation?

Does telekinetic force field disappear if the psychic steps out of range? Does a carpet of adhesion?

its a false equivalency. The TK force field and carpet of adhesion are really one and done effects in that they are triggered and set at the time of "casting" the tk manipulation is an ongoing manipulation effect, which means realistically that it would need to be constantly in range or it gets cut off.

[Blue_Lion]

Far as I know there are no missiles that accept post-launch guidance from the launcher in the canon texts.

I might be incorrect. But I doubt it the way the PB missile rules are written.

There is a tow missile in rifts merc.

[Axelmania]

Is the range for the 4 telemechanics powers necessary for the entire duration or simply for initiation?

Does telekinetic force field disappear if the psychic steps out of range? Does a carpet of adhesion?

its a false equivalency. The TK force field and carpet of adhesion are really one and done effects in that they are triggered and set at the time of "casting" the tk manipulation is an ongoing manipulation effect, which means realistically that it would need to be constantly in range or it gets cut off.

Mentally Possess Others has Range Touch and it is ongoing manipulation. I don't assume you need to remain touching your victim to keep possessing them.

[RockJock]

Are you going to allow/deal with ECM coverage and rolls?