Am I doing missile combat right?

[Greepnak]

So here is how I've been treating it...
*on the initiative roll for the missile battery, perhaps an apc or robot vehicle*
*rolls one strike roll for the volley, +1 to strike, anywhere between 4 and 20 missiles depends on launch system)
GM: EXPOSITION DIALOGUE ABOUT MISSILES COMING TOWARD THE PARTY!
PC: ILL TRY TO SHOOT IT DOWN
*PC rolls to strike, roll is above 8, missiles are not smart so they dont dodge*
GM: YOUR LASER STRIKES ONE OF THE MISSILES IN THE VOLLEY! THERE IS A CHANCE IT MIGHT DETONATE THE ENTIRE THING, OTHERWISE EXPOSITION ABOUT DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
*PC rolls damage, probably 3d6 which is enough to kill minis*
GM: THE MISSILE BREAKS APART AS THE SWARM IS NEARLY ABOVE YOUR HEADS
*GM rolls on the table, which I remember is like 45% chance if you use a non-missile to shoot down missiles to detonate entire volley, rolls like a 25*
GM: THE MISSILES GO OFF IN A CHAIN REACTION ABOVE THE PARTY WITH TINY BITS OF DEBRIS RAINING DOWN, BUT THE BLAST DAMAGE IS AVERTED!

[HWalsh]

So here is how I've been treating it...
*on the initiative roll for the missile battery, perhaps an apc or robot vehicle*
*rolls one strike roll for the volley, +1 to strike, anywhere between 4 and 20 missiles depends on launch system)
GM: EXPOSITION DIALOGUE ABOUT MISSILES COMING TOWARD THE PARTY!
PC: ILL TRY TO SHOOT IT DOWN
*PC rolls to strike, roll is above 8, missiles are not smart so they dont dodge*
GM: YOUR LASER STRIKES ONE OF THE MISSILES IN THE VOLLEY! THERE IS A CHANCE IT MIGHT DETONATE THE ENTIRE THING, OTHERWISE EXPOSITION ABOUT DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
*PC rolls damage, probably 3d6 which is enough to kill minis*
GM: THE MISSILE BREAKS APART AS THE SWARM IS NEARLY ABOVE YOUR HEADS
*GM rolls on the table, which I remember is like 45% chance if you use a non-missile to shoot down missiles to detonate entire volley, rolls like a 25*
GM: THE MISSILES GO OFF IN A CHAIN REACTION ABOVE THE PARTY WITH TINY BITS OF DEBRIS RAINING DOWN, BUT THE BLAST DAMAGE IS AVERTED!

Well, in the case of a 4+ volley, that looks about right.

I'd have to check the chart.

Though they don't launch "at the party" they launch at a specific target. So...

Here is an example from my game:


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GM: "The Missileman turns and unleashes a volley of six missiles toward Marshal!" (Roll 1d20 +Misc Bonuses/Penalties +W.P. Heavy Mega-Damage Weapons +Weapons Systems (if applicable) the total result is a 12, as per Missile Combat (RUE 346) this is a hit) "They are going to hit if you don't do something Marshal!"

Marshal: "I take aim with my Super Rail Gun and fire at the volley!" (Roll 1d20 +Misc. Bonuses/Penalties +W.P. Heavy Mega-Damage Weapons +Weapons Systems the total result is a 9, the missile can't dodge, this is a hit) "Nine!"

GM: "Your burst strikes one of the missiles in the volley! Roll damage!"

Marshal: (Roll 1d6x10) "Twenty!"

GM: (Roll percentile - 51%) "There is a brilliant explosion as one of the missiles explodes! You can see that three of the missiles have survived and you brace yourself against the impact!" (Roll 15d6 - 46) "The explosion does forty six Mega-Damage!"

Marshal: "Crap! Uh! Can I roll with impact!"

GM: "How many actions do you have remaining?"

Marshal: "I started the round with six. I used one, then it fired the volley, I used one to shoot it down, so I have four left."

GM: "Go for it!"

Marshal: (Rolls 1d20 +Misc. Bonuses +Roll w/Impact +Etc. the total is 13 - Success) "Thirteen!"

GM: "You successfully tuck and roll with the explosion, that would have been much more severe if you hadn't succeeded. You take twenty three mega-damage to your main body."

[Axelmania]

Dat same chance of setting off the volley regardless of what the damage or blast radius is of the one you hit... hopefully we get some more versatile rules for calculating the % in the future.

[Greepnak]

Dat same chance of setting off the volley regardless of what the damage or blast radius is of the one you hit... hopefully we get some more versatile rules for calculating the % in the future.

I forgot completely about WP weapon systems and such. I didnt think those applied to missiles (just to things like turret guns and such) so I've always had dumb-missiles have flat +1 and smarts have +3

[Blue_Lion]

Dat same chance of setting off the volley regardless of what the damage or blast radius is of the one you hit... hopefully we get some more versatile rules for calculating the % in the future.

I forgot completely about WP weapon systems and such. I didnt think those applied to missiles (just to things like turret guns and such) so I've always had dumb-missiles have flat +1 and smarts have +3

Page 364 of RUE covers missile strike bonuses.
It starts off with a blanket statement about no bonus to strike with missiles.(this would by order of precedence negate all earlier stated bonuses) It then list times missiles get bonuses so it is listing a rule that missiles do not get bonuses to strike then list acceptations to the no bonus rule done in the same paragraph.

Bonuses to strike with missiles according to page 364 of RUE.

1 When told by firing platform a description +1 to +3 (but that is suppose to be uncommon.)
2 WP heavy when firing mini-missiels.
3 Guided are +3 to strike
4 Smart are +5 to strike.

(So a standard unguided missile unless told other wise is a straight die roll, a smart missile is +5.)

[Axelmania]

Order of precedence does not negate earlier bonuses. "Unless otherwise indicated" is retroactive.

These are not exceptions. They are examples of otherwise indicated.

[Blue_Lion]

Order of precedence does not negate earlier bonuses. "Unless otherwise indicated" is retroactive.

These are not exceptions. They are examples of otherwise indicated.

A rule saying no bonus to strike with X negates(prevents) all general bonuses listed before it being applied to X. So yes order of precedence a later rule changes things and if it blocks something from an earlier rule the earlier rule does not apply. (If they say a weapon gets no bonuses to strike that means all general rules for bonuses do not apply as a specific rule blocks the bonus.) This is a fairly basic concept in gaming.

Do not cherry pick half a line of text with no context read the whole line. The whole text tells you what is addressing the phrase unless indicated otherwise defines a list of sources it is not a blanket statement to ignore the rule it is part of. (While unless otherwise indicated "could be retroactive "unless otherwise in" limits the sources of the change placing the general rules for ranged combat outside the possible pool of sources.

Full text in question.
PG 364 RUE.
"Missile strikes
As usual, a D20 is rolled to determine weather or not a missile hits or misses. Any roll above a four (5-20) hits unless the defender/target can dodge or shoot the missile down before it hits.
No Missile bonus to Strike: Unless indicated otherwise in a specific weapon, robot, vehicle or launcher description, mini-missiles and most types of missiles are NOT guided and do not get a bonus to strike. Some launch systems or additional targeting systems may provide a +1 to + 3 bonus to strike, but even that is uncommon. W.P Heavy mega-damage Weapons skill provides a bonus when firing Mini-missiles. Note: Accept for multi-warhead and long-range missiles (both rare), most missiles on rifts earth are NOT guided. The rare guided missile are +3 to strike and smart bombs are +5 to strike and + to to dodge. Generally most self guided missiles are reprogrammed to respond to specific images (video camera/sensor mounted in the nose of the warhead) or specific heat or radiation levels which clearly identify the enemy. Smart bombs are missiles that can identify an enemy target and chase it down. ....."(got tired of quoting but well past the unless indicated otehriwise in and what is affecting it.)

So by the text "unless indicated otherwise in" only applies to -specific weapon, robot, vehicle, or launcher description- in regards to the missile being guided. Meaning the CS could make a mini-missile launcher that has a description that states it fires guided mini-missiles.


If they are not acceptation to the rule no bonus to strike they would be in conflict but as they are written as part of the paragraph defining the rule they are acceptations to the rule listed as part of the rule.


Order of precedence in this case what the rules last say is what is true when two rule conflict.
If I tell you at one point you need to go left then 5 minutes latter tell you need to go right.
Would you need to go left or right?
With order or precedence the currant precedence is to go right as I changed it from going left.
Now if I tell you go left then you need to go right, it would be instructions to go right first then left. That would be progressive because there is a transition to include both instructions even though they contradict each other.


That means unless indicated otherwise is not open statement about bonuses but a statement to allow specific weapons, robots, vehicles and launchers with a listed bonus or statement allowing it to shoot guided missiles to keep those bonuses even if they are from an earlier book. It also means that a later book with a guided mini-missile launcher does not make all mini-missiles guided. AS it is to allow a special case acceptation to the missile being unguided without the acceptation being seen as a blanket rule change.

(Kind of odd how the full sentence you are quoting makes your claim at what it means an obvious false hood perhaps you should stop cherry picking and use full sentences.)

So looking at the rule it tells you how to deterime if a missile hits or misses (the wording could imply a straight die roll) it then makes a blanket statement that missiles get no bonuses(the part that was underlined by the writers), Then it tells you that the description of a X, Y or X (the part I made larger to add focus on) could allow the missile to be guided. Then it states that a launcher/weapon system can if it says so apply a bonus +1 to +3.(implies that previous line of text was about guided) It fallows that up with WP being applied to mini missiles. Then it says most missiles other than Multi warhead and LRM are not guided. Finally it gives the bonus for guided and smart bombs.-(Nothing in the text allows to apply a bonus to missiles not listed in the text as an acceptation to the no bonus to strikes.)

Note unless indicated otherwise in-does not allow for examples but limits sources of acceptations to a statement. The word "in" after unless indicated otherwise is key it is limited sources to those listed. One little word can change the meaning of a whole text, that is why cherry picking half a sentence is a bad because any one that reads the full text will see you are misrepresenting the text with the impression you are doing intentionally.

[Greepnak]

So given that my party really pushes the Justice League level of powerscale and thus is not going to have great issue shooting down volleys... I suppose I need to outright Robotech that noise and start launching millions of cr worth of missiles at this party eh? Not likely to happen on earth. Phase world though...

[Axelmania]

It doesn't matter whether overriding text comes earlier or later within a book. The book was published simultaneously and rulebooks in particular are not mandatorily read in page number sequence.

Your embiggened text is only talking about whether or not you receive a +3 guided missile bonus.

A "missile bonus to strike" is referring to bonuses from the missile itself. +3 guided or +5 smart.

A proficiency is not a weapon, robot, vehicle or launcher. It is a non-missile bonus to strike which benefits strikes made by people using mini-missiles.

[Zamion138]

So given that my party really pushes the Justice League level of powerscale and thus is not going to have great issue shooting down volleys... I suppose I need to outright Robotech that noise and start launching millions of cr worth of missiles at this party eh? Not likely to happen on earth. Phase world though...

For our table i only give the ability to shoot them down if they are far enough away for the speed of the missile would take 2 or more actions to reach the party/target, 500mph to 1400 mph for mini missiles....

That way its not a waste of money for the shooter possibly.
Make sure your foes are shooting down the pc's 20k credit attacks too.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Forcing them to eat up actions shooting down volleys of cheap mini missiles is a perfectly viable strategy.

When they are out of actions after about 1/3 of the round, and cant attack or do anything other than desperately defend, i doubt theyll be talking about how easy things are.

[Axelmania]

*wonders if the Deflect spell could be cast on a Spinning Blades enchantment so that the free auto-parry against all attack is suddenly able to parry missile volleys too, whilst you simultaneously attack your attackers who can't defend*

[J_cobbers]

Forcing them to eat up actions shooting down volleys of cheap mini missiles is a perfectly viable strategy.

When they are out of actions after about 1/3 of the round, and cant attack or do anything other than desperately defend, i doubt they'll be talking about how easy things are.

Or controversy go the other route if the NPC's have more APM they can save their missile attacks for the end of the round when they can't be shot down, only dodged or rolled with on impact, causing the PC's to lose attacks for the following round, thus leaving a deficit and leaving them open for massive volleys.

[Blue_Lion]

Forcing them to eat up actions shooting down volleys of cheap mini missiles is a perfectly viable strategy.

When they are out of actions after about 1/3 of the round, and cant attack or do anything other than desperately defend, i doubt theyll be talking about how easy things are.

I am not sure i would call mini missiles cheep.