Wolfen question (s)

[Deathknight69]

Howdy Folks,

The 1st question is: How well will/does a Wolfen fit into Rifts ??

2nd question: What O.C.C.'s/R.C.C.'s are they a good fit for ???

Thx in advance,

DK69

[Blue_Lion]

1. Wolfen exist in rifts, Kingsdale has a large population of them. So they fit very well as there is a in print listing of them.

2. They can be just about any OCC(lacking a occ limiting them from it), including dog boy and equivalent to CS. As I understand it they favor men at arms classes.

[say652]

Wolfen are always a great option, they match up well with CAF Fleet Officer in Phaseworld for Rifts Earth Gunslinger is an awesome Occ for them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

1 Yes, they are on Rifts Earth.
2 Just about any OCC or PCC that humans can have. RCCs of other races are closed to them. (Like the Dogboy RCC. It is restricted to the psi hound race.)

As I am using them (and what the words mean):

Spoiler:

OCCs being job classes where it is mostly training.
PCCs being psychic classes it is all about the psionic powers the char has developed.
RCCs are racially restricted classes where only those of a certain race can have that class. Can even be a subset of a race that the class is restricted to.
Race being different species of peoples

[say652]

1 Yes, they are on Rifts Earth.
2 Just about any OCC or PCC that humans can have. RCCs of other races are closed to them. (Like the Dogboy RCC. It is restricted to the psi hound race.)

As I am using them (and what the words mean):

Spoiler:

OCCs being job classes where it is mostly training.
PCCs being psychic classes it is all about the psionic powers the char has developed.
RCCs are racially restricted classes where only those of a certain race can have that class. Can even be a subset of a race that the class is restricted to.
Race being different species of peoples

First I'll start by apologizing DK, I'm sorry but you're incorrect.

Page 86 of Conversion Book 1 states that Dogboy is an acceptable "Occ" for Wolfen.

[drewkitty ~..~]

1 Yes, they are on Rifts Earth.
2 Just about any OCC or PCC that humans can have. RCCs of other races are closed to them. (Like the Dogboy RCC. It is restricted to the psi hound race.)

As I am using them (and what the words mean):

Spoiler:

OCCs being job classes where it is mostly training.
PCCs being psychic classes it is all about the psionic powers the char has developed.
RCCs are racially restricted classes where only those of a certain race can have that class. Can even be a subset of a race that the class is restricted to.
Race being different species of peoples

First I'll start by apologizing DK, I'm sorry but you're incorrect.

Page 86 of Conversion Book 1 states that Dogboy is an acceptable "Occ" for Wolfen.

Well we are both correct. I am correct that they can take the CS dogboy RCC and you are correct in that they can take an equivalent CC to the dogboy RCC. In both the RCB1 and the RCB1r.

[eliakon]

Or that the Wolfen race is one of the races that can take the Psi-hound RCC.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Or that the Wolfen race is one of the races that can take the Psi-hound RCC.

Nope, the RCB1 and RCB1r are specific that it would be an equivalent.

[say652]

Or that the Wolfen race is one of the races that can take the Psi-hound RCC.

Nope, the RCB1 and RCB1r are specific that it would be an equivalent.

So a Wolfen with all the Dogboy rcc skills and abilities but not a Dogboy....

[drewkitty ~..~]

Or that the Wolfen race is one of the races that can take the Psi-hound RCC.

Nope, the RCB1 and RCB1r are specific that it would be an equivalent.

So a Wolfen with all the Dogboy rcc skills and abilities but not a Dogboy....

Nope, they would just have the skills. The Dogboy's abilities are racial.

[Blue_Lion]

Or that the Wolfen race is one of the races that can take the Psi-hound RCC.

Nope, the RCB1 and RCB1r are specific that it would be an equivalent.

So a Wolfen with all the Dogboy rcc skills and abilities but not a Dogboy....

Nope, they would just have the skills. The Dogboy's abilities are racial.

Nope the dog boys OCC abilities are written as part of the class, they get the whole class including the abilities of the class. There are no racial powers listed just class powers so by RAW they get the whole class including psi-tracking. At the time the class was a RCC.

[say652]

Because the CB1 allows them to have the rcc in this case.

[say652]

I had a Gm allow similar with a Human character, i was allowed the Flying Tiger RCC abilities and skills.....just not the attributes as i was a human Master Psionic.

[kaid]

Wolfen exist in a number of areas as previously mentioned.

OCC wise they are pretty open about the only thing they would have problems with are power armor pilots as most power armor is not setup for their body/leg style.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Re: Dogboy OCC equivalent.

IMO, they get it all. Wolfen are a psychicly active canine race. Its entirely possible that they could manifest those psychic abilities in a rough equivalent to the Psi-hound. Their race entry seems to indicate that it is "an equivalent" OCC/PCC. Much like a "Coalition Grunt" equivalent, the character isn't actually a Coalition-trained soldier, just uses the same basic OCC.

Re: Power Armor Piloting

Meh? A lot of PAs dont have you actually standing in the legs (The Samson, Terror Trooper, Mauler, Ulti-Max, others for instance) so their leg configuration wouldn't be an issue. Also, ANY of the new NG PAs can have canid style legs put on them (or so it says in the description of the PA designed for Dog Boys) for a very moderate fee.

Personally, i think they make great magic users. I really dont get the CB1r nerf to their bonus attack, though. I ignore that. Honestly, i tend to ignore CB1r entirely, as its almost categorically a worse book than the original.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Nope the dog boys OCC abilities are written as part of the class, they get the whole class including the abilities of the class. There are no racial powers listed just class powers so by RAW they get the whole class including psi-tracking. At the time the class was a RCC.

And this would be ignoring that PB has a bad habit of squashing a Racial profile with that Race's RCC into the same heading and mislabeling the Race as the Class.

This is not something I have not ignored in my statements.
you might reference the 2nd line of my signature to an idea about how difficult it will be to argue with me over this.

[eliakon]

Nope the dog boys OCC abilities are written as part of the class, they get the whole class including the abilities of the class. There are no racial powers listed just class powers so by RAW they get the whole class including psi-tracking. At the time the class was a RCC.

And this would be ignoring that PB has a bad habit of squashing a Racial profile with that Race's RCC into the same heading and mislabeling the Race as the Class.

This is not something I have not ignored in my statements.
you might reference the 2nd line of my signature to an idea about how difficult it will be to argue with me over this.

So you can house rule a change at your table sure.
But the official canon says what it says and that is that the psychic powers are part of the OCC...
...which goes both ways of course.
By the RAW if you play a dogboy mage or dogboy ____ they DON'T get the psychic powers because, again, they are part of the OCC.

I do agree that it would have been better to have split the race and class... but that didn't happen unfortunately.
So we can either play the RAW or we can house rule it to taste.

[Blue_Lion]

Nope the dog boys OCC abilities are written as part of the class, they get the whole class including the abilities of the class. There are no racial powers listed just class powers so by RAW they get the whole class including psi-tracking. At the time the class was a RCC.

And this would be ignoring that PB has a bad habit of squashing a Racial profile with that Race's RCC into the same heading and mislabeling the Race as the Class.

This is not something I have not ignored in my statements.
you might reference the 2nd line of my signature to an idea about how difficult it will be to argue with me over this.

The second line of your signature is only valid in games you run, here it is irrelevant as nothing gives you mastery over how things are classified by RAW. The first line of your Signature however is very valid, you need the cannon answer then you can say how you house rule it after that.

The way it is written they get all class powers. You can not change RAW based on your belief that it was badly edited and expect to claim it is how things work in RAW.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Unlike with PB Style filter, I actually read the text of the class and let that determine what it is. Besides, I never said I was saying what RAW say\s. Only pointing out that the RAW is idiotically incorrect about due to that the text says "oh, this is a race that (nearly) all of them are trained in" (In other words a RCC) and "OH this race has mutations that can change their powers" Which say their powers are race based, not class based.

This has been argued over and over again. And no I will not change my mind till till the what the class text says otherwise.

So get over it that I will continue to state what the class is correctly and if something is a Race correctly. Everyone else will just have to stop having a basket of kittens every time I go about stating what things are, even thou PB intentionally mislabeled them for stylistic reasons. I'm already up front about this.

Warning: Trolling and threadjacking. You already have created a thread about this, no need to take over those of others.

EDIT: No I am not Threadjacking, I was reponding to Eli's belittling of the way I do things. Since My very next post was to Kill Eli bating into getting angry this ""warning"" is stupid and out of context.

EDIT: You are still responsible for what you post, nobody else is.

[eliakon]

Unlike with PB Style filter, I actually read the text of the class and let that determine what it is. Besides, I never said I was saying what RAW say\s. Only pointing out that the RAW is idiotically incorrect about due to that the text says "oh, this is a race that (nearly) all of them are trained in" (In other words a RCC) and "OH this race has mutations that can change their powers" Which say their powers are race based, not class based.

This has been argued over and over again. And no I will not change my mind till till the what the class text says otherwise.

So get over it that I will continue to state what the class is correctly and if something is a Race correctly. Everyone else will just have to stop having a basket of kittens every time I go about stating what things are, even thou PB intentionally mislabeled them for stylistic reasons. I've already Told you what I will be doing.

We understand that you have your house rules
But your house rules don't help people when they are asking for the official canon answers.
The canon says things that disagree with how you think they should be, yes we get that.
But that doesn't change the canon
Answering peoples questions by passing your house rule off as canon just confuses them because they then think that it IS canon...
...which can lead to confusion when they get corrected later and are now wondering why they got told the wrong thing in the first place

Logically yes. There shouldn't even BE RCCs. There should just be OCCs, Races, and some OCCs are race restricted. We get that.
But that is not how the canon got written. What got written is a mishmash of things and they don't always make sense... but they unfortunately are the official canon

[drewkitty ~..~]

Eli you know what I'm talking about so any more from you will be seen as you trying to bate me again into saying something to get me banned. And you will be reported.

EDIT: Perhaps you should instead of worrying about other's posts getting you banned choose what and when to post more carefully.

[kaid]

Re: Dogboy OCC equivalent.

IMO, they get it all. Wolfen are a psychicly active canine race. Its entirely possible that they could manifest those psychic abilities in a rough equivalent to the Psi-hound. Their race entry seems to indicate that it is "an equivalent" OCC/PCC. Much like a "Coalition Grunt" equivalent, the character isn't actually a Coalition-trained soldier, just uses the same basic OCC.

Re: Power Armor Piloting

Meh? A lot of PAs dont have you actually standing in the legs (The Samson, Terror Trooper, Mauler, Ulti-Max, others for instance) so their leg configuration wouldn't be an issue. Also, ANY of the new NG PAs can have canid style legs put on them (or so it says in the description of the PA designed for Dog Boys) for a very moderate fee.

Personally, i think they make great magic users. I really dont get the CB1r nerf to their bonus attack, though. I ignore that. Honestly, i tend to ignore CB1r entirely, as its almost categorically a worse book than the original.

Well the leg configuration is only part of the issue their body for wolfen is generally MUCH bigger than humans are. Coyle may be able to fit in slightly modified things like ulti max but wolfen are BIG.

[Deathknight69]

Thanx for the answer's/input folks !!

Remember: Keep it civil in the threads that I start !!

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Re: Dogboy OCC equivalent.

IMO, they get it all. Wolfen are a psychicly active canine race. Its entirely possible that they could manifest those psychic abilities in a rough equivalent to the Psi-hound. Their race entry seems to indicate that it is "an equivalent" OCC/PCC. Much like a "Coalition Grunt" equivalent, the character isn't actually a Coalition-trained soldier, just uses the same basic OCC.

Re: Power Armor Piloting

Meh? A lot of PAs dont have you actually standing in the legs (The Samson, Terror Trooper, Mauler, Ulti-Max, others for instance) so their leg configuration wouldn't be an issue. Also, ANY of the new NG PAs can have canid style legs put on them (or so it says in the description of the PA designed for Dog Boys) for a very moderate fee.

Personally, i think they make great magic users. I really dont get the CB1r nerf to their bonus attack, though. I ignore that. Honestly, i tend to ignore CB1r entirely, as its almost categorically a worse book than the original.

Well the leg configuration is only part of the issue their body for wolfen is generally MUCH bigger than humans are. Coyle may be able to fit in slightly modified things like ulti max but wolfen are BIG.

About 8 feet tall on average. Not big enough that they require specially modified body armor, other than for their legs.

[kaid]

I think you would find most power armor that would not be limited by their legs probably is not designed to accommodate an 8 foot tall pilot. Also while there may be some body armor you could find that would not require modification there is probably not a lot of stock available to fit an 8 foot tall wearer unless there is a good wolfen population in the area.

Even dog boy armor which is a good fit for coyel and kankoren is not great for wolfen in general because most dog boys simply are not as big as wolfen are.

[keir451]

As others have stated; The Wolfen fit into Rifts very well and take nearly any OCC.

On the subject of the Dog Pack RCC: You could "technically" create a Wolfen with the same or similar psionics to the ones that Dog Boys have naturally and have the Wolfen be trained in the class skills by some one else. However I (as a GM only) would say that this is the only way a Wolfen would get those abilities, they would not come as part of the "package" as it were. The player would have to roll for psionics and then choose those specific psionics. You could even have a Wolfen trained as a Dog Boy but has either no psionics or is only a physical psionic.
Power Armor and body armor could be modified to fit a Wolfen, but the cost (especially for power armor) would be pretty expensive, I'd think.

[eliakon]

My personal (totally house rule) solution is to explain that there is a Master Psychic PCC/OCC/WCC (Whatever Character Class) that is found almost exclusively in Canine Races. This kind of psychic has sensitive powers of a unique and peculiar sort...
...aka the 'dog boy'
If you are a canine race, you can be a 'dog boy' psycher. Or you can be some other class.
TOTALLY not canon.
But I figured I might as well toss in my two credits worth to the mix.

[RockJock]

Wolfen work great in Rifts. They are a good SDC race with advantages and disadvantages that make them interesting. OCC really depends on what you want out of them. I have seen them in games mixed in with a traditional Native American tribe(pretty much any of the Spirit West classes work), part of a tech based kingdom(basically Rome reborn from one of the early Rifters), or a lone Wolfen mixed into a party as anything from a Wilderness Scout to a Headhunter.

My 2 cents for the Dog Boy is equivalent OCC, but not a Dog Boy. I don't have CB1r, but the original clearly states they don't get the supernatural sensing abilities of a Dog Boy. If they are in a position to be trained by a Feral Dog Boy, and happen to have Psychics they could come pretty close, but would still not get the sensing abilities. Makes more sense to just take a Merc/CS equivalent OCC with major psychics, or an actual psychic class instead of a watered down Dog Boy in my book.

[Blue_Lion]

Wolfen work great in Rifts. They are a good SDC race with advantages and disadvantages that make them interesting. OCC really depends on what you want out of them. I have seen them in games mixed in with a traditional Native American tribe(pretty much any of the Spirit West classes work), part of a tech based kingdom(basically Rome reborn from one of the early Rifters), or a lone Wolfen mixed into a party as anything from a Wilderness Scout to a Headhunter.

My 2 cents for the Dog Boy is equivalent OCC, but not a Dog Boy. I don't have CB1r, but the original clearly states they don't get the supernatural sensing abilities of a Dog Boy. If they are in a position to be trained by a Feral Dog Boy, and happen to have Psychics they could come pretty close, but would still not get the sensing abilities. Makes more sense to just take a Merc/CS equivalent OCC with major psychics, or an actual psychic class instead of a watered down Dog Boy in my book.

No it does not clearly state anything about not getting the dog boys sensing. (I have both.)
What it says is they can be a dog boy or equivalent CS military occ. It never says or implies they do not get the dog boys sensing power.

But please if you think you have a quote that clearly says they do not get the sensing ability please provide it.

[RockJock]

Original CB1, page 86, left hand column under natural abilities it says "Can not sense the supernatrual or magic like intelligent mutant dogs". Seems pretty clearly stated to me.

I don't have revised, so I don't know of any updates.

[J_cobbers]

Original CB1, page 86, left hand column under natural abilities it says "Can not sense the supernatrual or magic like intelligent mutant dogs". Seems pretty clearly stated to me.

I don't have revised, so I don't know of any updates.

The revised edition has the same restriction under natural liabilities pg 78 on the left hand column. So if they took the Dog Boy OCC, which KS notes on RUE pg 148. So with both those facts, if it were me, I'd let them take be dogboy equivalents lacking: Sense Psychic and Magic Power; Recognize Psychic Scent; Sense Supernatural Beings; and sensitivity to ley lines. I am on the fence about the attribute bonuses as those seem to be by virtue of being mutant dogs in the first place, but I can also see it as a standard OCC stat bonus. I would keep the other psionic powers and bonuses, maybe let them have a couple extra powers to make up for losing the Mutant Dog specific powers, and keep the smell based abilities and the SDC bonus.

[Nox Equites]

Wolfen tend towards combat classes. The bonus attack is nice and a higher average PS means more heavy weapon options. However the Wolfen in Rifts Earth tend to be more recently experienced with magic and have enough curiosity and ego to try to be shifters. As full Psychic capable they can be most PCCs. Up to GM if all the psychic classes from Psyscape are available to non-humans, but the Wolfen Psy-Slayer has a certain charm to it.

[Deathknight69]

Ok,

Thanx for all the info guys.

Next ?? is: How are Rifts Wolfen named ?? Tribal surname? Any surname? First names??

[AlanGunhouse]

There is one group I recall that uses Latin names, over in Europe.

My 2 sense worth, A "Wolfen Dog Boy" would get the psychic powers of a standard Palladium Psychic Sensitive, not the array a true Dog Boy would have. Dog Boys are, rather, the Canine equivalent of a Psi-Stalker, but without the PPE vampirism.

[Deathknight69]

Ok, Anybody else have any idea's ??

[J_cobbers]

Ok, Anybody else have any idea's ??

They can be anything you want. Palladium FRP has a few good sources for names, the original adventures in the northern wilderness and further adventures in the 1st ed, or the Wolfen Empire book for 2d ed are good places to look. They can by common sounding names, Romanesque/Latin names, or more tribal / native american sounding, or even Scifi sounding. Depends on if they are native to the Palladium Fantasy world, Rifts Earth, Phase World, or somewhere else.

[glitterboy2098]

Ok,

Thanx for all the info guys.

Next ?? is: How are Rifts Wolfen named ?? Tribal surname? Any surname? First names??

Really up to the GM, but based on their pfrpg culture..

Wolfen in pfrpg basically have two cultures mixed together. First is their 'imperial' culture, which is basically ancient Rome, complete with Latin terms, legions, etc. This is a new culture for them, less than a century old.

Their older culture is more Germanic. Anglosaxon and Norse, basically. Longships, shield walls, druids, etc.

I'll go more into it later when I have time, but looking at names from those real world cultures is a good start.

Note that the Germanic cultures favored patronymic names. That is, you are known by your family rather than some common family name. 'Eric, son of Leif' for example, becoming 'Leif, Eric's son' and eventually 'Leif Ericsson'
Though nicknames based on appearance or events would be common too. Harald Fairhair. Harald Hardrata (hard ruler), etc.

Or by ones job. John the smith for example.

In real life, the romans originated the modern idea of a family name separate from patronymics, job, or nicknames. Where the romans spread, they spread the concept as well, and often the variable identifiers of patronym, job, or nickname wound up adopted as a roman style family identifier.

[Library Ogre]

One thing I do with PF wolfen is that their names tend to reflect their traditionalist v. Imperial positions. Those who are very traditionalist are more likely to have Germanic or Nordic names; those who have embraced the Wolfen Empire are more likely to have Roman-style names. IIRC, the Wulfen of Phase World tend to be very Imperial, tempered by exposure to the broader Three Galaxies culture. But a Wolfen who's lived on Earth as part of an integrated community? I can easily see them being comfortable with local naming conventions.

[RockJock]

I like Mark's idea on the naming. I've usually used Romanesque, but the only Wolfen I've really used in a Rifts setting is in PW.