What size are the rockets in the LAWS-3 Rocket Launcher

[glitterboy2098]

basically what the title says. What size are the rockets in the LAWS-3 Rocket Launcher from WB7? this new navy weapon fires Laser guided rockets. they are not called minimissiles, and have different stats than minimissiles. (LAWS-3 rockets are somewhat shorter range, and different damage)

given the LAW name i'd be tempted to make them 66mm diameter like the M72 LAW and M202 FLASH systems of today. this would make them similar in size to the unguided Minimissiles (which range from 60mm to 80mm depending on the weapon the size is mentioned in.) certainly it feels like the author meant this weapon to be a more advanced seeming alternative to the standard shoulder fired minimissile systems found in several of the books prior to WB7.


second question. if you had two such weapons, could you use the laser from one to designate the target for rockets fired from the other, thus allowing the full range of the rockets (4000ft) to be used despite the short range of the laser designator? (2000ft)

third question. if the above, would you as a GM allow a character to fire his rockets onto a ballistic arc towards a target he cannot himself see, but which is designated by the laser from a 2nd weapon that does have LOS?

[Blue_Lion]

They are a special and not any of the standard rifts missiles. The size is not stated so is what the gm feels is reasonable. (reallly just window dressing.)

2. I would allow them to track other targeting lasers but that is a gms call.

3. I would rule no, the rockets would not arc until they spent their fuel and be unable to make significant course corrections, I see rockets as typically more a direct flight weapon arcs are typically part of a more advanced artillery missile than a hand held rocket.

[glitterboy2098]

guess 'ballistic arc' is a bad term here. basically i mean "can i fire a missile blind over an obstacle in the direction of a target i know exists, that has been targeted by the laser of another LAWS-3?"

so like, i know there is a robot behind a stand of woods, a rock, trench wall, or a block over and hidden by some small buildings. can i fire a rocket blind over that obstacle, and trust the rocket to lock on midflight?

[SpiritInterface]

I would say that they are like the AT-4 (84mm) in size compared to the LAWS (66mm).

[Blue_Lion]

guess 'ballistic arc' is a bad term here. basically i mean "can i fire a missile blind over an obstacle in the direction of a target i know exists, that has been targeted by the laser of another LAWS-3?"

so like, i know there is a robot behind a stand of woods, a rock, trench wall, or a block over and hidden by some small buildings. can i fire a rocket blind over that obstacle, and trust the rocket to lock on midflight?

As I said no, that is not something I would allow with a small rocket.

[glitterboy2098]

main reason to ask (beyond the awesome stuff you could pull off with that), is the real world Hydra-70 based 70mm Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System have that ability.

[eliakon]

basically what the title says. What size are the rockets in the LAWS-3 Rocket Launcher from WB7? this new navy weapon fires Laser guided rockets. they are not called minimissiles, and have different stats than minimissiles. (LAWS-3 rockets are somewhat shorter range, and different damage)

given the LAW name i'd be tempted to make them 66mm diameter like the M72 LAW and M202 FLASH systems of today. this would make them similar in size to the unguided Minimissiles (which range from 60mm to 80mm depending on the weapon the size is mentioned in.) certainly it feels like the author meant this weapon to be a more advanced seeming alternative to the standard shoulder fired minimissile systems found in several of the books prior to WB7.

I wouldn't worry about the size to be honest
The size of missiles, grenades, E-clips, and every other munition in Rifts is wildly variable... to be perfectly honest I would not be worried about the exact size as setting a size would make it an outlier instead of the norm.

second question. if you had two such weapons, could you use the laser from one to designate the target for rockets fired from the other, thus allowing the full range of the rockets (4000ft) to be used despite the short range of the laser designator? (2000ft)

I see no reason why not.
Merc ops even talks about dedicated laser designators suggesting that you can have just a designator person...

third question. if the above, would you as a GM allow a character to fire his rockets onto a ballistic arc towards a target he cannot himself see, but which is designated by the laser from a 2nd weapon that does have LOS?

yes.
That is why you have laser guided weapons in the first place

[drewkitty ~..~]

basically what the title says. What size are the rockets in the LAWS-3 Rocket Launcher from WB7? this new navy weapon fires Laser guided rockets. they are not called minimissiles, and have different stats than minimissiles. (LAWS-3 rockets are somewhat shorter range, and different damage)
…snip

The Ammunition for the LAWS-3 are called RPG (rocket propelled grenades) in the 1st sentence. So I would call them RPG not missiles.

I would say that the RPG rounds are individually smaller then mini-missiles.

[ShadowLogan]

basically what the title says. What size are the rockets in the LAWS-3 Rocket Launcher from WB7? this new navy weapon fires Laser guided rockets. they are not called minimissiles, and have different stats than minimissiles. (LAWS-3 rockets are somewhat shorter range, and different damage)

Given the way Rifts typically handles such issues (ie it doesn't address them), I'd treat it as a purpose built missile system instead of the stock generic approach.

second question. if you had two such weapons, could you use the laser from one to designate the target for rockets fired from the other, thus allowing the full range of the rockets (4000ft) to be used despite the short range of the laser designator? (2000ft)

I don't see why not, the main issue I think is if this particular missile's guidance system can be fired "dumb" and acquire a laser lock post launch, which I'd say is a given though probably at reduced proficiency (to strike) to reflect the complexity of the shot.

third question. if the above, would you as a GM allow a character to fire his rockets onto a ballistic arc towards a target he cannot himself see, but which is designated by the laser from a 2nd weapon that does have LOS?

Within certain restrictions yes, but the missile has to be fired such that the guidance system will be able to detect the secondary laser designator in time, so the angle of launch will be a factor (mechanically I'd require a higher minimum target number and you get no bonuses, just straight die roll).

[Alrik Vas]

Within certain restrictions yes, but the missile has to be fired such that the guidance system will be able to detect the secondary laser designator in time, so the angle of launch will be a factor (mechanically I'd require a higher minimum target number and you get no bonuses, just straight die roll).

When it comes to WP Heavy below like level 3 or so, that's what you're getting no matter what. The Straight Die Roll method is terribly flawed. Give them penalties, it's better for everyone.

Even more so, however, if they spend an action making some sort of other roll to properly calculate the shot and coordinate with their other blokes, reduce the penalty, or get rid of it. Reward your players for team work and solid planning.

[ShadowLogan]

When it comes to WP Heavy below like level 3 or so, that's what you're getting no matter what. The Straight Die Roll method is terribly flawed. Give them penalties, it's better for everyone.

I am giving them penalties, the minimum target number has been raised, so penalties are built-in. Under normal circumstances it is 8 (RUE), but attempting a shot like this is more demanding. I wanted to just make it a called shot w/no bonuses, but RUE doesn't have a more demanding target number for a called shot any more (I know in RMB-era its 12, RUE its the same as a regular shot).

Even more so, however, if they spend an action making some sort of other roll to properly calculate the shot and coordinate with their other blokes, reduce the penalty, or get rid of it. Reward your players for team work and solid planning.

I agree here. I have no objections to the players working together, or taking the time to get the shot right to reduce penalties.

[Alrik Vas]

raising the minimum and giving penalties, while a smiliar, are't really the same thing.

If you take a -4, it means you need to roll a 12 after bonuses, but you still got an 8.

If you raise the target strike number to a 12, the target dodge number is now 12 or higher.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly i'd be inclined to use Penalties myself, since that would make the character bonuses from additional hardware (like the laser designation's +2 or +3, depending on which system you use), and bonuses from WP's and skills more notable. they apply either way, but with penalties the drawbacks of such shots would be easier to notice, since it negates some of your bonuses. (if i get +3 from the designation, and +2 from WP heavy, a -4 is easier to parse as working out to a simple +1 to the roll, while a +5 but needing a 12 target is harder to gauge whether the shot is a good one or not)

it also makes it easier to combine with things like cover and concealment (which are negative to strike penalties), target movement (negative to strike penalties), or wild shots (which again, are negative to strike penalties), since you can just tally up the penalty numbers and apply them to the dice roll.

[ShadowLogan]

raising the minimum and giving penalties, while a smiliar, are't really the same thing.

If you take a -4, it means you need to roll a 12 after bonuses, but you still got an 8.

If you raise the target strike number to a 12, the target dodge number is now 12 or higher.

Really I'd probably require 2 strike rolls though for the entire setup.

The first is the guy firing the missile (which is all I was considering, not necessarily the entire setup), he/she would use the modified target number. The second guy doing the laser designating would roll the strike roll on the target (as normal, probably toss in a slight penalty here) since they are the one actually guiding it in.