Killer Cyborg wrote:Axelmania wrote: Siembieda examined in his essay "Disadvantages Playing The Glitter Boy" (CB15) that
The boom gun is so powerful that after the first blast
(unless the recoil suppression system has been engaged)
any subsequent boom gun blasts
are considered wild shooting, with a low rate of accuracy.
However, if the Glitter Boy has activated the recoil suppression system,
which engages in an instant,
and is thus properly secured,
he can fire one recasting burst
after another
(+1 to strike for an aimed burst
and an additional +2 boom gun bonus)
Kevin has never disavowed this since the Conversion Book.
The entire book has been "disavowed". It's been removed and replaced with an updated book that
does not contain the passage you're talking about. That's what Revised editions of books do - supplant and replace the old one. You cant claim that stuff in the "non-revised" edition is still canon - it doesn't work that way.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "disavowed."
RUE 72
Rate of Fire: Each booming blast counts as one melee attack/action. Bursts and sprays are not possible.
RMB 223
Rate of Fire: Equal to number of combined hand to hand attacks of the pilot and his power armor... Bursts and sprays are not possible![u]
Before CB1, it's pretty clear that the Boom Gun can't fire bursts.
After CB1, it's pretty clear that the Boom Gun can't fire burst.
Logically, the CB1 usage of "burst" twice instead of "blast" is a typo, but even if it represented a rule-change from the RMB, that rule-change ended with RUE (if not before).
Well before. CB1 was released in Nov 1991.
Im fairly certain Mutants in Orbit has GB stats reprinted, but i cant locate my copy. It's probably still in a box. Ill look later.
WB5 has the stats for the Triax T-550 GB. Same text as the regular GB, other than the mention at the begining that it fires at a slightly slower speed; mentions it is a reproduction and successful copy, though. No mention of Aimed Bursts or any such nonsense. Released a couple of years after CB1 (1995 if im not mistaken). Plenty of time for updated text.
WB8 has the stats for the Glitter Boy and Boom Gun. No mention of any special "aimed burst rules". Came out several years after CB1, plenty of time for updated text. (1996?)
WB9 does not have the stats for the GB reprinted, but does have the stats for the Boom Gun itself printed in the Mastadon entry. No mention of aimed bursts. And since this text ISNT just a copy-pasta of previous iterations, it would have been trivial to add it. (late '96 or early 97, IIRC).
WB22 (Free Quebec) reprints and updates the GB entry. No mention of any aimed-burst anything. (April 2000)
CB1r came out in 2002, completely invalidating CB1 and replacing it.
Oh, and the GMG, whenever that came out, though, with abbreviated stats... meh.
RUE came out in 2005.
I submit to you that if Kevin wanted to include this rule, he's had 26 years and 7 (8 if you include Triax 2) books that have had the stats for the thing in them to do so. He hasn't done so, so i think the evidence is pretty clear that the "rule" (or ruling, as it were) is long gone. Particularly since the entire modern combat system has received a (less workable, IMO) overhaul in the interim - twice. Once in the GMG and once in RUE.
----
So, i'm going to, once again, try to explain, for Axel, why new editions of books invalidate old ones.
Well start with the "new player" reason, and then progress to the more in-depth ones.
Let's say im a new player. My friends introduce to Rifts. I buy Ultimate Edition, try it out, and love it (..... god knows why, but hey, sake of argument).
I then head over to Palladiumbooks.com and buy every single book i can under the Rifts heading.
Want to guess what i can't buy (and, really, other than the implication from the title "revised", have no way of even knowing there ever was)?
Yeah, Conversion Book One non-revised. Can't get SB1 non-revised, either, or Vampire Kingdoms.
All the books and rules i can lay my hands on and that are currently supported by the company are there, and the old, out of print, non-revised editions are not among them.
The canon of rules is what is available and supported by the company. That simple.
Now, a LOT of more modern companies (Paizo, WotC, AEG, others) deal with this by having all the core rules in an SRD. (System Referrence Document) - usually online, and often in Wiki format so it is easy to search and link through.
Palladium doesn't do this - largely i'd say because they missed the boat due to Kev's (past?) technophobia when they had the resources and now because they simply dont have the resources (and lets face it, the core system doesn't even work as presented and would need to be updated and rewritten to be playable first) to do it at this late date.
With an SRD available, i can ALWAYS know what the current rule/ruling on a rule is. Without one, it's the printed canon of books that are available from and supported by the company.
Now we'll get into the "new editions of the rules replace and supplant old ones" talk. We'll even use one of Palladium's own game lines to do so - Heroes Unlimited!
According the Axel's theory that new versions dont invalidate old ones if they dont explicitly over-write and change old rules, you should be able to use the Heroes Unlimited 1st Ed/Revised Magic Hero instead of the one Presented in 2nd Edition. After all, it's exactly like his claim that the (old) version of Headhunter from RMB still exists even though RUE replaced it with a much updated version! The old one should still exist!
.... except it doesn't. None of the books published after 2nd Edition was released would work with it. The new one uses the now universal PPE system and the old one uses Spell Slots per day.
New editions (ESPECIALLY of the core rules) [/b][u]outright replace[/b] the old ones. If there is something that was left out in the transition -
thats intentional. (It's not a bug, its a FEATURE). Same with revised books. When stuff is removed, it is removed
on purpose. It's gone. Removed from canon.
Thats how editions and revisions work.
Until and unless there is a canon rule or statement, in print, from Kevin (or he cares to weigh in, either in person or through one of the mods posting on his behalf) that post-dates the removal of the of the text with the removal of non-revised CB1 (and the overruling of what CB1 would have said, anyway, with RUE superceding it as the Core Rulebook in 2005; not to mention all of the other post CB1 printings of books with the stats where they ignore/over-rule the CB1 text).... nadda.
Boom guns dont fire bursts.
Last time im going to bother going over that. Really, last time im going to bother responding to Axel at all. I already had him on ignore, but was responding because i could still see his posts when he was quoted by others. Im just going to stop bothering, at this point. With a tiny amount of snark: he can have his gold medal in Olympic Mental Gymnastics. He's earned it.
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.