Mystic China's Chi Magic in Rifts

[drewkitty ~..~]

There's no rule saying PC's can't go past 15, it just dosn't say how much XP it takes. there's a difference.

I may be wrong but I do recall reading that mortal charters stop at lvl 15 let me check RUE.

Edit: Found it- Page 296 of RUE-Under the subheading Character Experience Levels. Right colom second pargraph.

"The Maximum level a player character can reach is 15. "

So yes there is a rule that clearly says PC's can't go past 15.

Then WT does the exp tables still include the upper limit of the 15th level?
Was there no coordination when they wrote RUE?
*mutters something about bad editing*
------
location info (for those who didn't know):
The adult dragon table 16-30 is in the dragons and gods book.
yes, yes, I know RUE has a dragon table but that only goes up to the 26th level.

[eliakon]

There's no rule saying PC's can't go past 15, it just dosn't say how much XP it takes. there's a difference.

I may be wrong but I do recall reading that mortal charters stop at lvl 15 let me check RUE.

Edit: Found it- Page 296 of RUE-Under the subheading Character Experience Levels. Right colom second pargraph.

"The Maximum level a player character can reach is 15. "

So yes there is a rule that clearly says PC's can't go past 15.

Then WT does the exp tables still include the upper limit of the 15th level?
Was there no coordination when they wrote RUE?
*mutters something about bad editing*
------
location info (for those who didn't know):
The adult dragon table 16-30 is in the dragons and gods book.
yes, yes, I know RUE has a dragon table but that only goes up to the 26th level.

it doesn't say that PCs can use those tables though.
Just that they exist.
There are XP tables for classes that are listed as NPC only so there is clearly precedent for XP tables that are not open to the PCs
RAW if your a PC you hit 15 and stop, if your an NPC then you may or may not go on depending on how the GM interprets how the XP tables work.

[Blue_Lion]

There's no rule saying PC's can't go past 15, it just dosn't say how much XP it takes. there's a difference.

I may be wrong but I do recall reading that mortal charters stop at lvl 15 let me check RUE.

Edit: Found it- Page 296 of RUE-Under the subheading Character Experience Levels. Right colom second pargraph.

"The Maximum level a player character can reach is 15. "

So yes there is a rule that clearly says PC's can't go past 15.

Then WT does the exp tables still include the upper limit of the 15th level?
Was there no coordination when they wrote RUE?
*mutters something about bad editing*
------
location info (for those who didn't know):
The adult dragon table 16-30 is in the dragons and gods book.
yes, yes, I know RUE has a dragon table but that only goes up to the 26th level.

Some race/classes with long life times are listed acceptation. Dragons can level up to 30 but takes them centuries to do so not something that happens in a normal campaign. Typically adult dragons are not PCs, players play hatchling dragons.

An acceptation to a rule does not mean the rule does not exist.

@axelman- To my knowledge it did but I do not have most my books with me at the time.

[Axelmania]

Dragons aren't exceptions unless stated. Experience tables are included for several NPC-only character races or classes for the benefit of GMs tracking NPC progress.

Although I think the primary unstated intended use was for letting players play them even if they never technically allowed it.

[Blue_Lion]

Dragons aren't exceptions unless stated. Experience tables are included for several NPC-only character races or classes for the benefit of GMs tracking NPC progress.

Although I think the primary unstated intended use was for letting players play them even if they never technically allowed it.

The fact that the dragon experience chart for adults is an acceptation to the rule is do to it giving them a way to progress pass the standard of stopping at level 15 found in almost every class in the game. The reason most classes stop tracking at level 15 is you do not progress past that point.
T
This is a matter of context of the adult dragon and the history of what PB has treated the level cap.

There are two possible reasons that such tables exists.
A-Tables going past level 15 are invalid because it is impossible to progress past that point.
B-Races/classes with such tables have the ability to progress past the hard cap of 15.

So looking at the books, you see adult dragons stated past level 15, meaning dragons have the ability to progress to level 30 once they reach adulthood when the book was written.

The next step is to determine if the cap of 15 existed at the time the book was written, this determines if it something that once existed but was removed by later books.-Generally though out the life of PB you see almost every class experience table stop at level 15, so the cap does seam to always exist.(I am confident you will find the cap in writing as a rule before the book with dragons was written but only have 3 books with me at the time.)

They also never state that such advancement is limited to NPC. The stated intent for the level cap is do to the difficulty in gm and playing such powerful charters, something that just playing adult dragon is already doing.

Conclusion the context of level cap for dragons indicates they are an acceptation because they tell you they can do what is not the standard of the rules does not allow(that is what an acceptation to a rule is) and do not limit the acceptation to just NPCs.

[eliakon]

Dragons aren't exceptions unless stated. Experience tables are included for several NPC-only character races or classes for the benefit of GMs tracking NPC progress.

Although I think the primary unstated intended use was for letting players play them even if they never technically allowed it.

The fact that the dragon experience chart for adults is an acceptation to the rule is do to it giving them a way to progress pass the standard of stopping at level 15 found in almost every class in the game. The reason most classes stop tracking at level 15 is you do not progress past that point.
T
This is a matter of context of the adult dragon and the history of what PB has treated the level cap.

There are two possible reasons that such tables exists.
A-Tables going past level 15 are invalid because it is impossible to progress past that point.
B-Races/classes with such tables have the ability to progress past the hard cap of 15.

So looking at the books, you see adult dragons stated past level 15, meaning dragons have the ability to progress to level 30 once they reach adulthood when the book was written.

The next step is to determine if the cap of 15 existed at the time the book was written, this determines if it something that once existed but was removed by later books.-Generally though out the life of PB you see almost every class experience table stop at level 15, so the cap does seam to always exist.(I am confident you will find the cap in writing as a rule before the book with dragons was written but only have 3 books with me at the time.)

They also never state that such advancement is limited to NPC. The stated intent for the level cap is do to the difficulty in gm and playing such powerful charters, something that just playing adult dragon is already doing.

Conclusion the context of level cap for dragons indicates they are an acceptation because they tell you they can do what is not the standard of the rules does not allow(that is what an acceptation to a rule is) and do not limit the acceptation to just NPCs.

RUE says specifically that level 15 is the max for PCs
That does not say "unless you are a dragon"
Just like it does not mean that "Some classes are listed as NPC only, but since there is a listed XP table that really means that they are available for PCs because XP tables are there for the sole use of PCs"
Level 16 Dragons are not an exception to the level cap. They just happen to be the one place where we happen to have the formal XP table for going past level 15 printed.
We know that it is possible, and we know that non-dragons can do it. After all there are lots of NPCs with levels higher than 15. We just don't have the XP tables that go with them.
Not that it matters since all of them are exceptions to the "Player Characters can not advance past level 15" rule anyway.
If the GM house rules that cap away, then the GM can house rule in an XP chart that works for their gaming table.

[Blue_Lion]

Dragons aren't exceptions unless stated. Experience tables are included for several NPC-only character races or classes for the benefit of GMs tracking NPC progress.

Although I think the primary unstated intended use was for letting players play them even if they never technically allowed it.

The fact that the dragon experience chart for adults is an acceptation to the rule is do to it giving them a way to progress pass the standard of stopping at level 15 found in almost every class in the game. The reason most classes stop tracking at level 15 is you do not progress past that point.
T
This is a matter of context of the adult dragon and the history of what PB has treated the level cap.

There are two possible reasons that such tables exists.
A-Tables going past level 15 are invalid because it is impossible to progress past that point.
B-Races/classes with such tables have the ability to progress past the hard cap of 15.

So looking at the books, you see adult dragons stated past level 15, meaning dragons have the ability to progress to level 30 once they reach adulthood when the book was written.

The next step is to determine if the cap of 15 existed at the time the book was written, this determines if it something that once existed but was removed by later books.-Generally though out the life of PB you see almost every class experience table stop at level 15, so the cap does seam to always exist.(I am confident you will find the cap in writing as a rule before the book with dragons was written but only have 3 books with me at the time.)

They also never state that such advancement is limited to NPC. The stated intent for the level cap is do to the difficulty in gm and playing such powerful charters, something that just playing adult dragon is already doing.

Conclusion the context of level cap for dragons indicates they are an acceptation because they tell you they can do what is not the standard of the rules does not allow(that is what an acceptation to a rule is) and do not limit the acceptation to just NPCs.

RUE says specifically that level 15 is the max for PCs
That does not say "unless you are a dragon"
Just like it does not mean that "Some classes are listed as NPC only, but since there is a listed XP table that really means that they are available for PCs because XP tables are there for the sole use of PCs"
Level 16 Dragons are not an exception to the level cap. They just happen to be the one place where we happen to have the formal XP table for going past level 15 printed.
We know that it is possible, and we know that non-dragons can do it. After all there are lots of NPCs with levels higher than 15. We just don't have the XP tables that go with them.
Not that it matters since all of them are exceptions to the "Player Characters can not advance past level 15" rule anyway.
If the GM house rules that cap away, then the GM can house rule in an XP chart that works for their gaming table.

If it was always a rule(as it was to my understanding) then earlier acceptations would apply as it is not a rule that RUE added.
I want to say the acceptation was printed in the original conversion book 1. As I said normally they are not player charters but if a table exist then it is possible for a player to do it.

[eliakon]

Dragons aren't exceptions unless stated. Experience tables are included for several NPC-only character races or classes for the benefit of GMs tracking NPC progress.

Although I think the primary unstated intended use was for letting players play them even if they never technically allowed it.

The fact that the dragon experience chart for adults is an acceptation to the rule is do to it giving them a way to progress pass the standard of stopping at level 15 found in almost every class in the game. The reason most classes stop tracking at level 15 is you do not progress past that point.
T
This is a matter of context of the adult dragon and the history of what PB has treated the level cap.

There are two possible reasons that such tables exists.
A-Tables going past level 15 are invalid because it is impossible to progress past that point.
B-Races/classes with such tables have the ability to progress past the hard cap of 15.

So looking at the books, you see adult dragons stated past level 15, meaning dragons have the ability to progress to level 30 once they reach adulthood when the book was written.

The next step is to determine if the cap of 15 existed at the time the book was written, this determines if it something that once existed but was removed by later books.-Generally though out the life of PB you see almost every class experience table stop at level 15, so the cap does seam to always exist.(I am confident you will find the cap in writing as a rule before the book with dragons was written but only have 3 books with me at the time.)

They also never state that such advancement is limited to NPC. The stated intent for the level cap is do to the difficulty in gm and playing such powerful charters, something that just playing adult dragon is already doing.

Conclusion the context of level cap for dragons indicates they are an acceptation because they tell you they can do what is not the standard of the rules does not allow(that is what an acceptation to a rule is) and do not limit the acceptation to just NPCs.

RUE says specifically that level 15 is the max for PCs
That does not say "unless you are a dragon"
Just like it does not mean that "Some classes are listed as NPC only, but since there is a listed XP table that really means that they are available for PCs because XP tables are there for the sole use of PCs"
Level 16 Dragons are not an exception to the level cap. They just happen to be the one place where we happen to have the formal XP table for going past level 15 printed.
We know that it is possible, and we know that non-dragons can do it. After all there are lots of NPCs with levels higher than 15. We just don't have the XP tables that go with them.
Not that it matters since all of them are exceptions to the "Player Characters can not advance past level 15" rule anyway.
If the GM house rules that cap away, then the GM can house rule in an XP chart that works for their gaming table.

If it was always a rule(as it was to my understanding) then earlier acceptations would apply as it is not a rule that RUE added.
I want to say the acceptation was printed in the original conversion book 1. As I said normally they are not player charters but if a table exist then it is possible for a player to do it.

We know that is false.
Tables exist for things that are not available to PCs.
The existence of a table just means that it is easier for a GM to change the rules to allow. Not that it is allowed.
There is no 'right' to play something just because there is an XP table for it.

[Blue_Lion]

Dragons aren't exceptions unless stated. Experience tables are included for several NPC-only character races or classes for the benefit of GMs tracking NPC progress.

Although I think the primary unstated intended use was for letting players play them even if they never technically allowed it.

The fact that the dragon experience chart for adults is an acceptation to the rule is do to it giving them a way to progress pass the standard of stopping at level 15 found in almost every class in the game. The reason most classes stop tracking at level 15 is you do not progress past that point.
T
This is a matter of context of the adult dragon and the history of what PB has treated the level cap.

There are two possible reasons that such tables exists.
A-Tables going past level 15 are invalid because it is impossible to progress past that point.
B-Races/classes with such tables have the ability to progress past the hard cap of 15.

So looking at the books, you see adult dragons stated past level 15, meaning dragons have the ability to progress to level 30 once they reach adulthood when the book was written.

The next step is to determine if the cap of 15 existed at the time the book was written, this determines if it something that once existed but was removed by later books.-Generally though out the life of PB you see almost every class experience table stop at level 15, so the cap does seam to always exist.(I am confident you will find the cap in writing as a rule before the book with dragons was written but only have 3 books with me at the time.)

They also never state that such advancement is limited to NPC. The stated intent for the level cap is do to the difficulty in gm and playing such powerful charters, something that just playing adult dragon is already doing.

Conclusion the context of level cap for dragons indicates they are an acceptation because they tell you they can do what is not the standard of the rules does not allow(that is what an acceptation to a rule is) and do not limit the acceptation to just NPCs.

RUE says specifically that level 15 is the max for PCs
That does not say "unless you are a dragon"
Just like it does not mean that "Some classes are listed as NPC only, but since there is a listed XP table that really means that they are available for PCs because XP tables are there for the sole use of PCs"
Level 16 Dragons are not an exception to the level cap. They just happen to be the one place where we happen to have the formal XP table for going past level 15 printed.
We know that it is possible, and we know that non-dragons can do it. After all there are lots of NPCs with levels higher than 15. We just don't have the XP tables that go with them.
Not that it matters since all of them are exceptions to the "Player Characters can not advance past level 15" rule anyway.
If the GM house rules that cap away, then the GM can house rule in an XP chart that works for their gaming table.

If it was always a rule(as it was to my understanding) then earlier acceptations would apply as it is not a rule that RUE added.
I want to say the acceptation was printed in the original conversion book 1. As I said normally they are not player charters but if a table exist then it is possible for a player to do it.

We know that is false.
Tables exist for things that are not available to PCs.
The existence of a table just means that it is easier for a GM to change the rules to allow. Not that it is allowed.
There is no 'right' to play something just because there is an XP table for it.

You missied the point.
The point was special level rules for adult dragons that apply when you play a non standard option.
The whole case is based on a GM allowing you to play something that is normally not available
So yes the existence of a table means it is possible if a player is playing something not normally available to players. That was my whole point.

**I never said there was a a right to play it just because there was table for it, all charters are subject to GM approval, you do not have a right to play anything not even a human vagabond, your gm must allow you to play it.

The logic you used that saying something possible means it is a right do it is highly flawed.
Example-It is possible for you to kill some one, does not mean you have a right to kill some one.