About Sea Titans...

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About Sea Titans...

Unread post by HarleeKnight »

Worldbook 7: Underseas doesn't really go into it, so I was wondering what your take on the transition is like when a Sea Titan goes from SDC to MDC. Do they just wake up an MDC person one day, or is it triggered by a traumatic event like Marvel mutants, or is it a gradual escalation over days, or... etc.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by RockJock »

I've always seen it as gradual. The kid was always special, almost like the stories of Hercules strangling the snake in his crib, but with gradually raising power levels. A 12 year old might have the SDC of normal full grown adult. At sometime in their teens the young Sea Titan has several hundred SDC, and finally crossed the MDC threshold. By say 18, or 21 they have reached their full "adult" abilities. That is how we always played it.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

I always play it as happening start to finish in the instant their body starts puberty. Maks that normally jarring transition even moreso. Just wake up one morning and smash your alarm clock...through a wall :D
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Re: About Sea Titans...

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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Axelmania »

Implying the New Navy doesn't issue MDC alarm clocks...

Although these guys aren't Titan Juicers with uncontrollable strength disorders so I doubt this would happen.

They'd still do SDC on restrained punches and I personally, however slappy I get with an alarm clock, hit it lighter than a restrained punch.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

I would say that each ST child will come to their powers differently. Just like how each person is different.

Some might have their powers come to the fore in one unpleasant event, while for other it takes years to fully come into their powers.

I do believe NS has the right of it for most of the STs.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Axelmania wrote:Implying the New Navy doesn't issue MDC alarm clocks...

Although these guys aren't Titan Juicers with uncontrollable strength disorders so I doubt this would happen.

They'd still do SDC on restrained punches and I personally, however slappy I get with an alarm clock, hit it lighter than a restrained punch.


Yes but your little slap when you awaken has suddenly become 100 times stronger, without your knowledge.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Axelmania »

No it hasn't, I don't turn off my alarm with the strength of a full-strength punch, so neither would they.

I'm not even sure it would be a restrained punch. Maybe a pulled restrained punch at best.

It's more like potentially inflicting 10 damage instead of 1 damage.

Those are SDC for supernatural strength unless you're in the top 50+ levels.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Axelmania wrote:No it hasn't, I don't turn off my alarm with the strength of a full-strength punch, so neither would they.

I'm not even sure it would be a restrained punch. Maybe a pulled restrained punch at best.

It's more like potentially inflicting 10 damage instead of 1 damage.

Those are SDC for supernatural strength unless you're in the top 50+ levels.


Ugh. But they would go from applying an SDC slap that does maybe 1d4 SDC at most to suddenly applying a slap 100 times stronger.

they were talking about smacking the heck out of an alarm clock where the plastic gives a little or makes pleasingly loud whack a full on slap, not your apparently dainty caress of the plastic pest.

That is like saying that a ST placing a friendly smack on someone's back, just after they gain the strength, isn't going to send the person flying. ONE HUNDRED TIMES STRONGER
Or the ST slapping someone isn't going to, hopefully, send the person spinning into the air rather than breaking their neck.

Do you play MDC is x10 SDC or something?
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Axelmania »

Where do you get slaps doing 1D4 from? That's how much a punch does. Slaps would probably be 0 damage roleplaying attacks.

I don't think a slap to the face would necessarily even inflict 1 SDC and those types of slaps are harder than the kind you'd give to an alarm clock.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by eliakon »

Doesn't Juicer Uprisings go into this sort of thing about super strength?
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Axelmania wrote:Where do you get slaps doing 1D4 from? That's how much a punch does. Slaps would probably be 0 damage roleplaying attacks.

I don't think a slap to the face would necessarily even inflict 1 SDC and those types of slaps are harder than the kind you'd give to an alarm clock.

Slap would at least do 1 if it knocks a person back it has to do more than 1. If you smack your alarm clock hard enough that the plastic flexes and or causes it or your hand to bounce then you've done at least one SDC.
It's the kind of slap YOU wouldn't give to an alarm clock. I know many teenagers who wish their alarm clocks would die and let them sleep in. Obviously we are not talking about someone who is caressing their alarm clock into silence. As no strength is put into a caress or a little push. We or at least I am talking about a teen who reaches over and flexes that plastic sometimes with a "dropped" fist.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Axelmania »

eliakon wrote:Doesn't Juicer Uprisings go into this sort of thing about super strength?

Yes, but it's about something that happens to chemically enhanced beings who get bad doses of drug cocktails, not something inherent to their race. Other beings with supernatural PS aren't described as having problems like these.

You can get supernatural PS via a magic spell and it doesn't describe any problems, even though you'd have less experience with it and it would be more alien than a Sea Titan developing it.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Slap would at least do 1 if it knocks a person back it has to do more than 1.

I don't agree with you. The reason people stumble backwards from slaps is more due to reflexively trying to get away from pain, not from the actual force of it.

For comparison's sake: a body block / tackle does 1D4.

I am doubtful a mere slap would do as much damage as that.

Attacks which knock you down do not necessarily have to damage you. The "Backward Sweep" kick attack is an example proving that.

Attacks which cause you pain do not necessarily have to damage you. The crush/squeeze from Demon Wrestling (Mystic China) is an example proving that.

Zer0 Kay wrote:If you smack your alarm clock hard enough that the plastic flexes and or causes it or your hand to bounce then you've done at least one SDC.

No, you haven't. Hitting something hard enough to make it move does not necessarily mean you hit it hard enough to damage it.

Zer0 Kay wrote:It's the kind of slap YOU wouldn't give to an alarm clock. I know many teenagers who wish their alarm clocks would die and let them sleep in. Obviously we are not talking about someone who is caressing their alarm clock into silence. As no strength is put into a caress or a little push. We or at least I am talking about a teen who reaches over and flexes that plastic sometimes with a "dropped" fist.

Someone who fists an alarm clock would have unusual rage issues.

Sea Titans have supernatural PE too if I recall, so when their abilities manifested they would cease to be tired, and thus not be cranky at the alarm clock. They would be happy to be woken and caress it gently into submission.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by eliakon »

Axelmania wrote:
eliakon wrote:Doesn't Juicer Uprisings go into this sort of thing about super strength?

Yes, but it's about something that happens to chemically enhanced beings who get bad doses of drug cocktails, not something inherent to their race. Other beings with supernatural PS aren't described as having problems like these.

I picked the Juicer because they are a good example of "suddenly getting stronger"

Axelmania wrote:You can get supernatural PS via a magic spell and it doesn't describe any problems, even though you'd have less experience with it and it would be more alien than a Sea Titan developing it.

Magic seems to negate all the limitations and uncertainness that come with a spell
If you get a new sense you don't have to learn how to use it, or how to understand it... you just have it.
If you get new limbs you can automatically use them
If you get a new shape, still no problem.
If you gain the ability to use an energy attack there is no 'learning curve'
I don't see why strength would not come under the same "its magic so it works" thing.
Though this could be used as a justification and just say "its magic" and presto, you instantly have full control of the gained ability.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Axelmania wrote:
eliakon wrote:Doesn't Juicer Uprisings go into this sort of thing about super strength?

Yes, but it's about something that happens to chemically enhanced beings who get bad doses of drug cocktails, not something inherent to their race. Other beings with supernatural PS aren't described as having problems like these.

You can get supernatural PS via a magic spell and it doesn't describe any problems, even though you'd have less experience with it and it would be more alien than a Sea Titan developing it.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Slap would at least do 1 if it knocks a person back it has to do more than 1.

I don't agree with you. The reason people stumble backwards from slaps is more due to reflexively trying to get away from pain, not from the actual force of it.

For comparison's sake: a body block / tackle does 1D4.

I am doubtful a mere slap would do as much damage as that.

Attacks which knock you down do not necessarily have to damage you. The "Backward Sweep" kick attack is an example proving that.

Attacks which cause you pain do not necessarily have to damage you. The crush/squeeze from Demon Wrestling (Mystic China) is an example proving that.

Zer0 Kay wrote:If you smack your alarm clock hard enough that the plastic flexes and or causes it or your hand to bounce then you've done at least one SDC.

No, you haven't. Hitting something hard enough to make it move does not necessarily mean you hit it hard enough to damage it.

Zer0 Kay wrote:It's the kind of slap YOU wouldn't give to an alarm clock. I know many teenagers who wish their alarm clocks would die and let them sleep in. Obviously we are not talking about someone who is caressing their alarm clock into silence. As no strength is put into a caress or a little push. We or at least I am talking about a teen who reaches over and flexes that plastic sometimes with a "dropped" fist.

Someone who fists an alarm clock would have unusual rage issues.

Sea Titans have supernatural PE too if I recall, so when their abilities manifested they would cease to be tired, and thus not be cranky at the alarm clock. They would be happy to be woken and caress it gently into submission.

SN PE helps u from getting sleepy it doesn't help you get rest. So if previously tired you don't suddenly become refreshed.

Funny... so a backhand, which is a slap does no dammage.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Supernatural PE does not negate fatigue, it merely greatly extends the amount of time you can operate without getting tired. Exactly how much can vary from species to species. Some like true Alien Intelligences or demons may never tire, others list something like 6 or 8 hours without getting tired, and Dragons can go for months without rest OR sleep but tend to hibernate years or decades to make up for the accured sleep debt.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

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HarleeKnight wrote:Worldbook 7: Underseas doesn't really go into it, so I was wondering what your take on the transition is like when a Sea Titan goes from SDC to MDC. Do they just wake up an MDC person one day, or is it triggered by a traumatic event like Marvel mutants, or is it a gradual escalation over days, or... etc.



Usually have it develop over a few weeks/months at the onset of puberty. It's not some weird light switch where you go to pop your neck and suddenly rip your own head off, or shatter the bones in your neck making you a quadriplegic as some seem to be implying. (The wake up and suddenly punch through a wall with MD tryhing to turn off a clock)

I imagine they FEEL it happening too. Probably feels pretty funky. At this point they've had it happen in their 'society' (As closed as it is) So would have those children singled out and taught from a very young age the responsibility of their future power and even have a course in how to handle the change and the power and responsibility after they become Seatitans in full.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

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eliakon wrote:I picked the Juicer because they are a good example of "suddenly getting stronger"

Juicers didn't have those penalties for years. The penalties introduced in Uprising are on page 13 and "Hyper-Strength Syndrome" has only a 40% chance if you're a Titan Juicer, or 27% chance if you have either supernatural PS or a normal PS of 30 or higher.

Juicers with PS 29 or lower didn't have a chance of getting it at all.

I don't believe this was ever intended to be a general rule for anyone who 'suddenly' gained similar strength levels though.

Carrella who wrote WB 10 Juicer Uprising also wrote WB 9 South America 2. Page 132 gives Supernatural PS to the TW "Ultra" Crazy and they didn't have penalties like this. Carella still had SNPS Crazies in mind when writing Uprising since he introduced the Psycho-Stalker, so he could have easily retroactively applied the HSS rules to the TW Crazy as well, but did not do so. It was intended as Juicer-specific.

We are told "The condition comes about when the Juicer's nervous system does not develop well enough to cope with the increase strength of his body."

Obviously non-Juicers with SNPS or PS of 30+ don't have that problem. The nervous system catches up just fine if you're enchaned with the Superhuman Strength spell, go through Sea Titan Puberty, or get changed into a TW Crazy.

eliakon wrote:Magic seems to negate all the limitations and uncertainness that come with a spell
If you get a new sense you don't have to learn how to use it, or how to understand it... you just have it.
If you get new limbs you can automatically use them
If you get a new shape, still no problem.
If you gain the ability to use an energy attack there is no 'learning curve'
I don't see why strength would not come under the same "its magic so it works" thing.
Though this could be used as a justification and just say "its magic" and presto, you instantly have full control of the gained ability.

Sea Titans are the result of magical mutations of the human body, if I recall, so that solves that dilemma too.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Funny... so a backhand, which is a slap does no dammage.

I would not consider a slap to be as damaging as a backhand. I have never heard a backhand referred to as a slap. The back of the hand is bonier. I think it hurts more to be hit with it.
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Axelmania wrote:
eliakon wrote:I picked the Juicer because they are a good example of "suddenly getting stronger"

Juicers didn't have those penalties for years. The penalties introduced in Uprising are on page 13 and "Hyper-Strength Syndrome" has only a 40% chance if you're a Titan Juicer, or 27% chance if you have either supernatural PS or a normal PS of 30 or higher.

Juicers with PS 29 or lower didn't have a chance of getting it at all.

I don't believe this was ever intended to be a general rule for anyone who 'suddenly' gained similar strength levels though.

Carrella who wrote WB 10 Juicer Uprising also wrote WB 9 South America 2. Page 132 gives Supernatural PS to the TW "Ultra" Crazy and they didn't have penalties like this. Carella still had SNPS Crazies in mind when writing Uprising since he introduced the Psycho-Stalker, so he could have easily retroactively applied the HSS rules to the TW Crazy as well, but did not do so. It was intended as Juicer-specific.

We are told "The condition comes about when the Juicer's nervous system does not develop well enough to cope with the increase strength of his body."

Obviously non-Juicers with SNPS or PS of 30+ don't have that problem. The nervous system catches up just fine if you're enchaned with the Superhuman Strength spell, go through Sea Titan Puberty, or get changed into a TW Crazy.

eliakon wrote:Magic seems to negate all the limitations and uncertainness that come with a spell
If you get a new sense you don't have to learn how to use it, or how to understand it... you just have it.
If you get new limbs you can automatically use them
If you get a new shape, still no problem.
If you gain the ability to use an energy attack there is no 'learning curve'
I don't see why strength would not come under the same "its magic so it works" thing.
Though this could be used as a justification and just say "its magic" and presto, you instantly have full control of the gained ability.

Sea Titans are the result of magical mutations of the human body, if I recall, so that solves that dilemma too.

Zer0 Kay wrote:Funny... so a backhand, which is a slap does no dammage.

I would not consider a slap to be as damaging as a backhand. I have never heard a backhand referred to as a slap. The back of the hand is bonier. I think it hurts more to be hit with it.

Seriously? Now I know not to listen to you.
Backhand slap defined
Backhand defined by a more scholarly source
Your slaps don't do damage because your just caressing faces
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Re: About Sea Titans...

Unread post by Axelmania »

I am unable to load your third link. Wikipedia opens saying palm. I am not sure his scholarly dictionary.com is compared to these sites associated with printed works which all focus on the palm:

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/slap
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... glish/slap
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dict ... ish/slap_1

An "or a flat object" caveat exists but I consider the knuckles to make the back of the hand unflat. A fluid object like a removed glove on the other hand can conform to the cheek it strikes and become flat on moment of impact so that would be okay.

Backhand is a 1D4 hand strike in ninjas and superspies. It is a "rear attack" like a backward sweep according to drunken style.

Given it does the same damage as a finger-break, black jack, tackle, punch, elbow or forearm, the 2nd lowest of all (fingertip does 1... I suppose 3rd if you count 0 damage attacks) I expect it would be stronger than a horizontal slap with a palm.

An actual thrusting palm strike does 1D6 but that doesn't fit the whipping image one would expect from a slap. It focuses force into the heel of the palm rather than distributing it evenly along the broad surface. Like the knife hand does for the blade of the hand, also doing 1D6.

I would say an attacking slap is base 0 damage and allow it to be incorporated into all hand to hand skilksneven though not listed. To actually inflict damage with it would require an damage bonus via strength, table leveling bonuses, or techniques like Wui Wing Chun's Combination Hand Hold/Strike.

The attacking slap some angry couples might give to the face during arguments doesn't seem like the equal of a punch/elbow/forearm to me. Impact may even be centered closer to the fingers than the heel and/or to the thumb webbing than the blade, minimizing force.

Even that is still much less than people hit alarm clocks.
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