Dunscon influence over Dweomer, the Automaton dilemma

[Axelmania]

Page 18 of Final Siege (August 2001) mentions that Dunscon sent a token company of Battle Magi and their Automatons to aid Tolkeen.

I was sort of under that Dweomer was only a member of the Federation in name and didn't actually help or co-operate with the City of Brass... that The Three hated the Dunscons and didn't want to help them.

This isn't the only instance of Dunscon/Magi connections though... Merctown (March 2005) page 151 had Hectate, a Battle Magus from the City of Brass.

I don't know if there might be references in other books... but does anyone get the impression that Dunscon may have the ability to command troops from Dweomer in spite of Dweomer's general independence within the Federation?

One CoB Diabolic Battle Magus doesn't really bother me since it might just be a rogue who betrayed Dweomer to join Dunscon, but the mention of AUTOMATONS in Final Siege is particularly worrisome.

Automatons are directly powered by The Three and their essence is put into them. They indefinitely lose 1 MDC and 1 PPE (page 25 of World Book 16) for each one so I think they would only tolerate them existing if they were being put to good use. As it is, allowing some Magi to "sojourn" with them is a pretty big risk... they lose the MDC/PPE until the Automaton is destroyed or else if they manually touch the Automaton and withdraw it... so if a sojourning Battle Magus suffocates to death during an avalanche, the Automaton could be buried indefinitely and the god couldn't get the MDC/PPE back...

So would The Three really want to be sending Automatons to help Tolkeen, especially to support Dunscon's gesture rather than their own?

If not, then is it a rogue Controller bringing them up there?

Is it possible that this is the result of the other "presence" hinted at on page 96 of WB16? Coran was convinced that Alistair was behind their mysterious activation... and stealing them is actually better than destroying them in terms of permanently weakening The Three.

It says only the strongest of gods could make their own... Dunscon is in league with the Splynncryth, aren't alien intelligence like the Splugorth stronger than your average god? Is it plausible that Dunscon has informed Splynncryth about them and now Splynny is empowering Automatons too? He certainly has more MDC to spare for the task than The Three.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I was under the impression the three sent a token force at duscons request just to keep him from bothering them, and to keep their own eye on things. The three do have an interest in watching the CS who is an avowed enemy of theirs.

Simplest answer and all

[Jorick]

Magi are fairly independent. They don't even have to be "rogue" and can do what they want with the automatons that are bonded to them. The Three don't make many decisions one way or the other. I'm under the impression that there are lots of Magi going hither and yon, essentially like any mage in the magic zone, and it makes sense that less scrupulous ones would join up with Dunscon, as a large percentage of the population of the Magic Zone has done (or more scrupulous ones may have joined the Tolkeen fight just cause it seemed like a good idea). In short, not all Magi are part of a standing army for Dweomer; they're just mages with a certain training that required some time with the Dweomer forces, and sometimes have a special gifted suit of armor gained during that past service.

[Alrik Vas]

"Some time", damn...trade 2 years of service (or whatever) for Battle Magus training? I can't imagine anyone NOT doing that.

In any case, there could also be essentially student exchanges, favors in play, blackmail in play, anything you can imagine that would get Dunscon's chuckleheads training from the Magus Orders. Golems going missing is a bit worrisome, but I'm inclined to go with Nekira's explanation on that.

The Three sent a token force to watch the situation in Tolkeen, and that's that.

[eliakon]

Hmmm, Dunscon dislikes Tolkeen. Dunscon Dislikes Dweomer. Dweomer has to play along at being subordinate to the Federation to keep the benefits it has. Seems like a no brainer here. Order one person you don't like to send aid to someone else you don't like. Either they do and get weakened, or don't and you get an excuse.

[Axelmania]

What benefits does Dweomer get from being considered a Federation of Magic member anyway? I actually can't remember who is a member of FoM aside from Brass/Dweomer/Stormspire. Does Magestar count?

[Nekira Sudacne]

What benefits does Dweomer get from being considered a Federation of Magic member anyway? I actually can't remember who is a member of FoM aside from Brass/Dweomer/Stormspire. Does Magestar count?

it's a lot of unnamed villages and city-states.

[SolCannibal]

Also, i would like to point out a few things:

- Check WB 16 and if paying attention you may notice a little bit in Dweomer's statistics that can give quite the dark edge to the city:

Population Breakdown:
Permanent Citizens (circa 105 P.A.): 49,628
Humans: Ordinary 25%
Humans: Trained in Magic: 28%
D-bees: Ordinary 17%
D-Bees: Trained in Magic: 15.5%
Dragons: Hatchlings 2% (roughly 800)
Dragons: Adult 0.5 (roughly 200)
Demons: Lesser 3% (includes Brodkil and Gargoyles)
Demons: Greater 5% (mostly Rakshashas, Bal-rogs, and Gallus)
Other Supernatural beings: 4%
Note: Dragons, demons, and supernatural beings are typically versed in magic.

Funny how such an easy to miss bit of data can make a hell (pardon the pun) of a diference, no?


- Dweomer has existed basically as it is since the time of the original Federation of Magic, what means at least one whole century and more for people to get trained as Magi of any or all brands, develop ideas of their own and migrate or join any of a bunch of different factions.

- 3 such good intentioned Magi left on their own with followers and associates to make a town of their own, Magestar. Stormspire is mentioned as having a number of natives of Dweomer among its workers, not to mention guildmaster of the Collegiate Arcane Annias Cearcy and guild councilor Garzom the Grim, both in Merctown, beside a few others peppered across the books. Theoretically, any of the high level ones could serve as founder for quite independent academies teaching that magical tradition outside Dweomer.

Anyway, my point was that, beside Nekira's very practical answer, having access to many per se does not says much of connections on Alistair's part, as its practicioners have been around for quite some time and may have a great variety of alignments, beliefs, loyalties and agendas.
It ain't quite that simple for all, as the High Magi's powers at least are tied to something of a priest-like connection with the Lords of Magic - and the automata do require something of a personal investment/touch on their part, but even that may have a number of explanations, pratical, sensible or just fanciful.