Servo-Harness Rig pictures?

[Axelmania]

This device is described on page 178 of Warlords of Russia (world book 17) and there is an illustration of an empty harness without someone wearing it or without it holding the gun.

I could have sworn I had seen a picture of someone actually using one though, wearing it with a gun being carried.

I flipped all through Warlords as well as Mystic Russia (World Book 18) and couldn't find any such illustration though.

Does anyone else remember something like this? I'm not sure if I'm just imagining it or maybe if it is some other book I'm not thinking of.

Also I'm wondering if any FAQs ever gave a cap for this thing. The way it ignores PS (long as you're 9+) and only operates on weight, and no size or weight caps are given... I'm just picturing some morbidly obese 434 pound human wielding an 867 pound boom gun (the example only mentions a 160 pound guy wielding a 320 pound rifle but it doesn't limit it there) and it would seem absurd to not put a cap on it for something that only costs 2200 to make.

[ShadowLogan]

An illustration also exists in Dimension Book 8 Naruni Wave 2 (pg42) solo again and the description here doesn't put a limit.

An illustration that suggests it could part of a Servo-Harness gun exists in FoM (WB16) on p116 (un-revised) for the Starfire Pulse Cannon, which might be what you are thinking of depicting a gun being carried by one. However, it is stated this is a Vehicle/Robot system, which might prevent it from being used by a Servo-Harness.

Other than the above I can't think of any other instances of a servo-harness being mentioned or appear to be depicted (in fact or suggestion). I do not think the FAQ (new or old) addresses the question of limits.

[Axelmania]

Thanks for the Naruni find, I'll keep looking, I think the SPC is just depicting its mount, although I wouldn't oppose a GM ruling that the SHR would allow you to wield something like that. I prefer the range of the page 125 version to the 122.

I'm wondering if maybe I'm remembering something from Palladium or maybe it was something alike to the S-H R seen in some other media. Going to flip through the SoT series, that came out later and had a lot of fighting art, maybe there. Or maybe a Rifter, they sometimes include new Rifts art in those...

Been doing a search and came across https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/c ... ts/cis1mrd which meants a "servo harness rig" used by Techmarines, I hope I'm not just remembering something similar from Warhammer though, could've sworn it was Palladium art...

[glitterboy2098]

the palladium art of the servo-harness is very similar to the harness used in Aliens with the Smart Gun. (which was actually a cosmetically altered Steadycam rig)

so watching that film is probably the closest we'll get.

[drewkitty ~..~]

level 5 edit

[kaid]

the palladium art of the servo-harness is very similar to the harness used in Aliens with the Smart Gun. (which was actually a cosmetically altered Steadycam rig)

so watching that film is probably the closest we'll get.

Yup it is basically the same principle as a steadycam rig. The aliens demonstration is probably about as much as you need to understand the basic mechanics involved just replace that gun with whatever energy weapon/rail gun you want.

Also you can check out you tube for people filming with steady cams some of which hold some impressively bulky cameras while they do some crazy movements to keep up with actors.

[kaid]

Also note that using something like a this does have downsides. You are going to not really be able to go prone effectively without removing the rig. It also is going to prevent some movements simply due to the mechanics of it.

How it works is basically the harness is taking all the weight of the weapon/camera. You are not holding up the weapon/camera the arm for the rig is what is holding it up so you now have all the weight of that weapon/camera with its weight being held up like a really good quality frame back pack. The weight distributes along your strongest axis along multiple points. So you would still feel it like you would a frame pack but it allows you to comfortably carry really bulky/heavy things perfectly steady for hours. Your arms are just there for aiming/pointing you are not lifting anything. Also something like this would dampen recoil quite a bit because the arm would take the recoil and translate through all the rigging to even out the kick to manageable levels for higher end rail guns.

Still it does not remove common sense. Lifting the gun for a boom gun is only half the problem a sure a big guy with something like this could lift the boomgun but firing it would send them flying as they simply lack the mass/pylons/thrusters to offset it.

[Axelmania]

True, which would lead to a lot of time between shots, but with that weapon sometimes 1 shot may be all you need, and the amazing range could still mean that you could recover and get set up in time for another shot before the attacker closes in.

[kaid]

True, which would lead to a lot of time between shots, but with that weapon sometimes 1 shot may be all you need, and the amazing range could still mean that you could recover and get set up in time for another shot before the attacker closes in.

In all likely hood you would only get one shot per server rig with something like a boom gun because it really is not setup to contain that kind of blast. Still it is a useful tool to more comfortably wield weapons that would either be to large to do so normally or to bulky to do so for any period of time.

One other issue for something like a boom gun it is very long in addition to being heavy. It would take a lot of jury rigging to get a servo rig to mount with it. For most other theoretically borg/power armor sized weaponry would likely work fine with the setup although ammo supply for some rail guns may be an issue simply due to extra weight.

[say652]

The picture is like to see if a servo rig, is a missile launcher mounted on a shock Troopers hip. Like in the flavor text.

[Blue_Lion]

True, which would lead to a lot of time between shots, but with that weapon sometimes 1 shot may be all you need, and the amazing range could still mean that you could recover and get set up in time for another shot before the attacker closes in.

If you are shooting at people in armor 1 shot is never all you need, as we have a GI joe rule.

[eliakon]

Getting thrown around like that is going to be pretty damaging to both the persona and the weapon...
Not to mention that its going to be pretty hard to line up shots at long range if you don't have the power armor sensors to help aim with

[kaid]

Generally the servo harness is mostly for support style heavy personal weapons. Stuff you would have to bipod mount or lug with a two man crew to position and use can with one of these be hip fired by one person reasonably. A lot of power armor carried weapons and borg weapons likely are managable with it as well because this is roughly the same size as what they are designed for. Some weapons like the boom gun though are really stretching the parameters and even if you could get it to lift the weight and you could move it around it is not going to be that useful in combat. Probably better to rig it up to a vehicle mount than to try to use it this way.

It is like some of the mentions of heavy full conversion borgs using boom guns. Can they lift it yes. Can they aim it at a target sure. But once they pull the trigger best case scenario is they go heels over head backwards and the gun goes flying as they lack the mass and recoil compensation to manage it.

From the bionics book there are bionic pylon options so clearly somebody has tried to make it work.

[say652]

The Boomgun has little to do with the weight of the weapon, it's the recoil that is the hard part.
So sure a rig can hold it, fire and go flying backwards at Mach 2.
Physics in games. Lol

[kaid]

The Boomgun has little to do with the weight of the weapon, it's the recoil that is the hard part.
So sure a rig can hold it, fire and go flying backwards at Mach 2.
Physics in games. Lol

Yup could you make a rig to hold it sure. Could you lift that rig with the boom gun in it? I say probably sure I have seen those world strongest man dudes ambling along at a good clip carrying two refrigerators so very likely you could find some physical odd ball who could swing it or a partial conversion or light full conversion borg.

But yup physics is a ***** and once you pull that trigger things are going to get pretty exciting for all involved.

[guardiandashi]

The Boomgun has little to do with the weight of the weapon, it's the recoil that is the hard part.
So sure a rig can hold it, fire and go flying backwards at Mach 2.
Physics in games. Lol

Yup could you make a rig to hold it sure. Could you lift that rig with the boom gun in it? I say probably sure I have seen those world strongest man dudes ambling along at a good clip carrying two refrigerators so very likely you could find some physical odd ball who could swing it or a partial conversion or light full conversion borg.

But yup physics is a ***** and once you pull that trigger things are going to get pretty exciting for all involved.

I realize the boom gun is an outlier, but I would basically (if I was running the game) say that it has a ~2 ton recoil when fired IE if you don't weigh ~2 tons, and or have the glitter boy recoil suppression features then you go flying from the recoil. This is arguably the reason the glitter boy suit has all the recoil suppression gear, it really doesn't have the mass to absorb the recoil without it.

[say652]

A Glitterboy is 1.2 tons and would be thrown back 20 feet without the pylons.
Just saying two tons isn't enough weight. Closer to 10 tons seems appropriate.

[say652]

The Mastodon Robot weighs 160tons and also uses a Boomgun.
Other than Gb and variants the only Boomgun user i have found.

[Blue_Lion]

The Mastodon Robot weighs 160tons and also uses a Boomgun.
Other than Gb and variants the only Boomgun user i have found.

That is the only unit that can fire the boom gun without pylons and or recoil thrusters.

[ShadowLogan]

The Mastodon Robot weighs 160tons and also uses a Boomgun.
Other than Gb and variants the only Boomgun user i have found.

Glitterboys and their PA variants aren't the only Boomgun users aside from the Mastodon you have:
-Merc Ops has an after market modified Naruni Hovertank sporting a salvaged Boomgun (pg62)
-Triax 2 has it on the Devestator Mk II (though why they haven't put it on other platforms...)

Flechette Canister firing Railguns like the GB's Boomgun are also used by the Shemerrians/Arche-3 and Naruni (Mercenaries pg134), and possibly exist in other places (but none spring to mind to check).

The Boomgun has little to do with the weight of the weapon, it's the recoil that is the hard part.
So sure a rig can hold it, fire and go flying backwards at Mach 2.
Physics in games. Lol

Actually you won't go flying back at Mach 2. Momentum being what it is, the larger mass of the shooter (compared to the flechette filled canister) means they are flug backward at a much lower velocity.

[say652]

Doesn't change the fact you cannot fire one from a servo rig

[kaid]

The Mastodon Robot weighs 160tons and also uses a Boomgun.
Other than Gb and variants the only Boomgun user i have found.

Triax 2 the upgraded devastator uses boomguns as secondary wrist weapons hehe.

[say652]

Well according to this thread, i can slap one in a servo rig and design a Cyborg ShockTrooper that fires one from the hip, as long as it weighs at least 2 tons and no need for pylons. Lol

[ShadowLogan]

Doesn't change the fact you cannot fire one from a servo rig

A basic Servo Rig, no argument unless the individual's mass is sufficient (in which case there might not be a need for the rig itself other than aesthetics).

Now a Servo Rig with Techno-Wizard modifications or extra technology is another matter.

A Techno-Wizard could use a variety of spells to manage the recoil in different ways:
-low level spell from Palladium Fantasy (not inRifts AFAIK) called "Increase Weight" (Level 1 pg189 PF2E)
-strength type Spell to allow them to handle the recoil
-Immobilize (PF2E pg201), probably part of a chain to prevent movement in certain directions
-Wind Rush to act as the jets
-a barrier type spell to help "brace" from behind
-of course there is also carpet of adhesion, but that would seem more appropriate to footware than the servo-rig
-etc, there might be spell chain effects others might think of to counter the recoil

3G type tech could see Megaversal Legion I-Beam technology applied to it, or gravity control technology (momentarily increase mass when trigger is pressed, or some other application). Then again even Rifts Earth level technology could allow the rig to contain simple deployable "legs" for bracing.

[say652]

By adding noncanon TW upgrades, you could design a Boomgun that grants Superhuman strength, Carpet of Adgesion, and what ever else you feel like adding making nothing required to use it.

[Axelmania]

For this strategy I was thinking of something like the Minsky Mekanikal MM-61 Explorer Exoframe, assuming it's possible to mount Servo-Harness Rigs to something that big (which I'm not really too sure about) on page 176 of Warlords of Russia. At 2.4 tons it is double the weight of a Glitter Boy so I would say instead of being thrown back 300-1200 feet (30 feet pre-RUE) it would only get thrown back 150-600 feet (15 feet pre-RUE). I'd probably keep the same amount of lost actions from the spiral though.

Of course, one of these things wouldn't really need a servo-rig since they can carry 1 ton (2000 pounds) in addition to the weight of the pilot. This thing could actually carry TWO boom guns. In fact... firing 2 boom guns at one is probably a good idea because then you can use the same distance/penalties the Glitter Boy does for firing un-anchored.

If anything, I'd say this would be more stable because firing a boom gun off each should would prevent a rotational spiral, you'd just go straight back instead of spin... well I mean on the vertical access anyway. I guess you could still spin head-over-heels on the horizantal axis.

The penalties should be steeper though since this thing doesn't have the rear jet thrusters of the Glitter Boy. You might want to strap a couple jet backs and aim them back instead of down to try and mimic that.

Judging by WB 31 page 122 though, apparently to completely counteract a boom gun with jets (no pylons) you need something strong enough to let a 1.5 ton (3000 pound) power armor suit fly at 260mph. For comparison the T-100 Eagle jet pack is able to (WB 5 page 116) lift the VX-2020 Monster borg (3200 pounds) at half speed (100mph, normally 200mph on page 34) so I believe you'd need to hook 3 of these up to the back of the MM-61 for one boom gun, 6 if firing two, if you wanted to avoid getting thrown back.

Compensation wouldn't be quickly perfectly due to auto-adjusting though, so you'd have to line it up in a straight line and then move the boom gun by turning the frame to face the target (similar to what the Triax version does, since it can only aim up and down) because if you had to turn the arms left or right, that would put you into a rotational spin on the vertical axis even with two of them.

Lacking jet compensation, given the open design, I wonder, if you didn't strap yourself in, what if you just fired the 2 boom guns and let the exoframe go flying backward with them while you fell out of it and stayed in place?

In all likely hood you would only get one shot per server rig with something like a boom gun because it really is not setup to contain that kind of blast. Still it is a useful tool to more comfortably wield weapons that would either be to large to do so normally or to bulky to do so for any period of time.

One other issue for something like a boom gun it is very long in addition to being heavy. It would take a lot of jury rigging to get a servo rig to mount with it. For most other theoretically borg/power armor sized weaponry would likely work fine with the setup although ammo supply for some rail guns may be an issue simply due to extra weight.

I agree, just saying that in many circumstances one shot could be enough. I could plausibly see having look-outs parked on the top of a wall ready to boom-gun blast an ongoing threat 2 miles away. After they fire the shot (hit or miss) they could be out of commission for a minute or more, trying to recover from the kick. I'd probably want to put a gymnastics crash pad behind the wall, under the assumption that they will fall off it, to minimize the injury to them.

If you are shooting at people in armor 1 shot is never all you need, as we have a GI joe rule.

A valid point, but you could be shooting at an unarmored monster approaching your town. RUE 288/355 won't protect the naked Magots.

Getting thrown around like that is going to be pretty damaging to both the persona and the weapon...
Not to mention that its going to be pretty hard to line up shots at long range if you don't have the power armor sensors to help aim with

Agreed, I'm not really sure how to calculate the damage but I'm hoping having a gymnastics crash pad behind your wall of boom guns would help make it survivable. It's also possible you might have MDC creatures manning the boom guns on the wall to avoid taking SDC damage from getting thrown around, so they'd just have to deal with lost time.

Doing without the +2 to strike from Hand to Hand Combat Elite: Glitter Boy and the additional +2 to strike from the power armor's laser targeting does put the shooter a bit behind, but cheaper-than-GB alternatives could still help out. RUE 264 mentions "Optics for Gun Scopes" which can also be had for goggles, for 2000 credits you can get a +3 to strike via laser targetting for 4000 feet. Can be combined with a telescopic sight up to 6000 feet (+1000=3000) and you could get crosshairs as a backup if the laser goes down (+500 creds =3500 total) or to use in the 4000-6000 range where it won't work. Doesn't help for the remaining 7000 feet but I guess it's possible to hold off until they're in range. The times you'd absolutely need to fire beyond that are usually when the attackers have boom guns themselves, or else are using mini-missiles.

Another option could be simply using a really cheap suit of power armor for it's sensors, like a Samson or Flying Titan, or one of those cheap ones in Mercs. That way even if the boom gun goes flying a hundred feet away after the first shot you'd still have backup weapons to rely on.

The Boomgun has little to do with the weight of the weapon, it's the recoil that is the hard part.
So sure a rig can hold it, fire and go flying backwards at Mach 2.
Physics in games. Lol

That physics would only make sense if the shooter weighed as much as a boom gun round. It would be proportionately slower the more you weighed.

I would basically (if I was running the game) say that it has a ~2 ton recoil when fired IE if you don't weigh ~2 tons, and or have the glitter boy recoil suppression features then you go flying from the recoil. This is arguably the reason the glitter boy suit has all the recoil suppression gear, it really doesn't have the mass to absorb the recoil without it.

Even in the case of the Glitter Boy which weighs 1.2 tons, per RUE 72 without both pylons sunk in they go flying 100-400 yards (300 to 1200 feet) and lose 4-7 attacks. If they sink into soft terrain (the example of "typical soft underwater flooring" is used, I guess because it's like mud compared to packed earth which prevents this) it's half the distance and only 1-4 lost actions.

Makes me wonder how many GMs bring that into play doing stuff like fighting in the Dinosaur swamps or farmland where the ground would be too watered and/or aerated to provide decent grip.

A Glitterboy is 1.2 tons and would be thrown back 20 feet without the pylons.
Just saying two tons isn't enough weight. Closer to 10 tons seems appropriate.

Where'd you get 20 feet? That's less than a tenth of what RUE says... hm checking back, the original Rifts RMB does mention them being knocked back 30 feet on page 219, I guess RUE felt that wasn't dramatic enough and had to nerf it. So that's one tradeoff the Ultimate Glitter Boy has in exchange for its decupled ammo supply.

The Mastodon Robot weighs 160tons and also uses a Boomgun.
Other than Gb and variants the only Boomgun user i have found.

Africa 45/155 it says Anher Thinis and and Sebek Arimi are both 18 feet tall but I can't find their weights. Anhur has golden plate armor he might wear to offset kick though, plus a natural 75mph flight ability which might serve a similar role as the GB's back thrusters. Something tells me Anhur has tested and thought out how to fire this safely while Sebek may not have actually done so yet and be carrying the thing with potentially hilarious results the first time he tries it, since he doesn't wear armor, has a lower PS, and no natural flight abilities.

I would think both gods resourceful enough to procure a Talisman of "Carpet of Adhesion" to put beneath them or "Energy Barrier" to put behind them, which could help keep them in place with adequate prep.

The Mastodon Robot weighs 160tons and also uses a Boomgun.
Other than Gb and variants the only Boomgun user i have found.

That is the only unit that can fire the boom gun without pylons and or recoil thrusters.

Correction: the only unit that can do so without being thrown all over the place with huge penalties afterward, if they wanted to keep firing additional shots.

Anyone able to bear the gun's weight is capable of firing it ONCE.

Doesn't change the fact you cannot fire one from a servo rig

Why not?

Well according to this thread, i can slap one in a servo rig and design a Cyborg ShockTrooper that fires one from the hip, as long as it weighs at least 2 tons and no need for pylons. Lol

The lack of pylons would mean a borg carrying it with a servo rig and firing it would be thrown backward hundreds of yards and lose several attacks from the shock, just as happens to a Glitter Boy without pylons engaged.

Being a cyborg, they'd be more likely to survive the fall damage than a normal human trying this trick.

You'd also require a modified jet pack or something to mimic the Glitter Boy's compensatory thrusters. The RUE 72 penaltes are still taking into account those jets helping counteract the gun, the penalties are just for a lack of pylon help. GB thrusters auto-adjust as you aim the gun so unless you were firing perfectly parallel to where your jet pack is aimed, the compensation will probably still be off and throw you into a worse spiral than an un-pyloned Glitter Boy experiences.

[guardiandashi]

Axelmania it is still 30 feet in RUE, its only when fighting UNDERWATER that has the 1d4x100 yards if totally unanchored, and 1/2 of that if anchored into the "typically" soft and muddy underwater flooring.

[Axelmania]

Huh... you're right... I had assumed the 30 feet was removed but it's still there on the bottom of 72's left side in spite of the giant distance at the top of 72's left side.

I'm having trouble making sense of it... I guess somehow the boomgun creates larger shockwaves underwater than in air?

I can sort of see it, like there are sonic spells which do more damage underwater and boom guns do a big sonic shockwave.

Any idea how many attacks you lose from being "thrown to the ground and knocked back" when in the air? I'd figure at least 1.

[guardiandashi]

Huh... you're right... I had assumed the 30 feet was removed but it's still there on the bottom of 72's left side in spite of the giant distance at the top of 72's left side.

I'm having trouble making sense of it... I guess somehow the boomgun creates larger shockwaves underwater than in air?

I can sort of see it, like there are sonic spells which do more damage underwater and boom guns do a big sonic shockwave.

Any idea how many attacks you lose from being "thrown to the ground and knocked back" when in the air? I'd figure at least 1.

I believe it was loose 1-2 attacks AND initiative is LAST.

I get that they feel that the boom gun would have a significantly increased recoil when fired under water due to the shock wave, and the fact that water doesn't compress. of course the counter argument is that the water should provide a lot more resistance to the glitterboy suit recoiling because I don't know about anyone else but when I try to move in water ALL movement is resisted. I also know that when a fish braces cross pull in the water they can put up a HUGE amount of resistance.

[Axelmania]

More resistant to recoil, yeah, but on the other hand, I guess when you get launched back into the air you fall faster and once you hit the ground it would slow you down...

You'd fall slower in water (your weight has the resistance of water to push aside) meaning more "airborn" (so to speak) time to be propelled backward...

Or maybe it's because the friction you'd have against muddy bottom of water wouldn't be much so you'd skid along it more, compared to high-friction earth.

[say652]

Warlords of Russia, cyborg shock trooper, just slap GB legs , jet thrusters, pylons and a boomgun on it.
Imagine this upgrade in a white Tiger. Stealthy Cyborg Sniper. Lol.
For at least the first shot.

[ShadowLogan]

By adding noncanon TW upgrades, you could design a Boomgun that grants Superhuman strength, Carpet of Adgesion, and what ever else you feel like adding making nothing required to use it.

True you could TW enchant the BG, but making a TW Servo-Harness makes the enchantment more multi-role and IMHO matches the Form/Function guideline in TWdry better.