Werebears and Werewolves, climbing and metamorphosis

[Axelmania]

Came across some kind of vampire/werecreature alliance in one of the later Rifters, got me interested in these guys again. One of the Rifters had announced at one point 'Tribes of the Moon' was going to be an official Nightbane supplement but I think it remained non-canon in one of the earlier ones...

Page 191 in the original conversion book, wolves and bears have instinctive prowling/swimming abilities, but only the tiger/jaguar/panther have instinctive climbing abilities.

So I figured I could just buy the skill but... nope, physical isn't listed as one of the available categories. I suppose "Available skill categories include" isn't necessarily the same as saying "ones we do not list are not available" but I think it implies as much...

Bears can climb trees, and either should be able to do it in human/humanoid form, so how would you go about legally getting this skill? Would you have to switch to an OCC?

Also I notice all the werecreatures have 'Metamorphosis Human' and 'Metamorphosis Animal' as inborn magical spell abilities in addition to their natural ability to morph between human/man-beast/beast for free/indefinitely. Would this mean any werecreature could look like any human or any animal for a limited period of time by paying for it with their PPE?

Seems like some of them wouldn't have enough to cast that spell from their own pool... could werecreatures do rituals to help out those with less PPE take on a desired human or animal form apart from their natural ones?

Also: if a werejaguar used its astral projection spell ability, could their astral form claw vampires to hurt them?

[J_cobbers]

Not all bears are good at climbing trees. In North America, the best known tree climber is the black bear, though apparently grizzly bear cubs are good climbers too, the adults are not as good at it. That leaves out brown bears and polar bears. Also the climb skill may also be more applicable to climbing more difficult surfaces like cliff faces/steep mountains and hills, building exteriors, ropes and so on beyond just trees. So is it perfect write up for wearbears? Maybe not but kinda makes sense in that standard PB logic.

As for obtaining the skill, looks like they'd have to pick an OCC that allows it.

I'd need to look at my copy of the conversion book and RUE before I can speak intelligently on the metamorphosis human/animal power. Obviously the normal morphing power allows them to take their natural appearance as a human or animal that distinguishes them as an individual, but the spell ability bares some additional reading. Interesting catch. If it works like you think it might, I guess they'd have to take an OCC that gives them enough PPE to cast those spells, or have access to a PPE source to pull from (but I don't think that's something they could do outside of a magic using OCC).

As for the Astral from question, nope, when in astral form a character is non-tangible except to other astral travelers so they wouldn't be able to touch a vampire's corporal form.

[drewkitty ~..~]

How to let a Were-person char have the climbing skill…..omit the ""RCC skills"" and give them a OCC or PCC that gives or lets them take the climbing skill.


Astral Projection, no physical attacks can effect the physical world.
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When using a Were-person I use one of The Children of the Moon were-people from the earliest rifters. Because they are written better then the PF ones or the Rifts ones.

[ShadowLogan]

It should be noted that some skills are not necessarily required to be taken in order to be used on some level. The main example is WP, anyone can pick up a weapon and use, but the WP allows one to be more accurate (+ strike) and depending on the weapon features (reload, ROF, etc). Climbing is actually another one of those skills IMHO as in the skill description it states: "every 'skilled' climber" (and the text puts skilled in quote marks) gets a second roll to save them-self if they fail the first roll. Prowl is probably another one of those skills that common sense says should work that way to even if you don't have the skill (anyone can attempt to move with stealth after all).

Metamorphosis also grants abilities inherent in a form, so when the were creature shape shifts those inherent abilities should be available.

Inborn magical abilities do not necessarily require the expenditure of PPE, but could be limited to X-# times per day instead (I don't have RCB1o).

As for Astral Projection, drewkitty is correct. Now if the were creature could use appropriate Psionics or Magic to interact with the physical plane, but their Astral Self can not.

[Axelmania]

Normally I understand that to be so but I'm wondering if vampires might be some kind of unique exception since in Warlords of Russia page 63 the 'Ghost Killing' ability of the Ectohunter allows them to harm vampires even though it explicitly only works on "ethereal energy beings and spirit-like life essences" giving examples like "ghosts, spirits, entities, astral beings and even the energy form of alien intelligences"

So maybe vampires work differently because you're not damaging the physical body but you're damaging the energy essence holding it together? An Ecto-hunter seems to be able to attack on the same wavelength as astral beings yet can harm vampires.

[J_cobbers]

Normally I understand that to be so but I'm wondering if vampires might be some kind of unique exception since in Warlords of Russia page 63 the 'Ghost Killing' ability of the Ectohunter allows them to harm vampires even though it explicitly only works on "ethereal energy beings and spirit-like life essences" giving examples like "ghosts, spirits, entities, astral beings and even the energy form of alien intelligences"

So maybe vampires work differently because you're not damaging the physical body but you're damaging the energy essence holding it together? An Ecto-hunter seems to be able to attack on the same wavelength as astral beings yet can harm vampires.

The Ecto-hunters' Ghost Killing ability is an exception to the general rule, so unless your were-creatures are also Ecto-hunters, they do not get a special power that lets their astral form also harm vampires. Yes vampires are special cases, but only with regard to the Ecto-hunter power. Otherwise there would be something in the write-up on the various were-creatures' abilities about their astral form being lethal to the vampires. There isn't, so they aren't, unless they have the right OCC that gives them that ability i.e. Ecto-hunter.

Don't read into a power more than what is written or try to apply spurious logic to support an idea that isn't supported by the text. Just because were-creatures natural physical forms may be able to harm vampires, and an Ecto-hunter has a power that lets them use their astral form harm vampires, does not logically mean that were-creatures astral forms are special enough to harm vampires too without having the Ecto-hunter OCC powers. Otherwise you're just using munchkin logic.

[Axelmania]

Hm... Ecto-Hunters can be psychics, I wonder if they had Ectoplasm or Astral Projection if they could use their abilities to harm vampires with an ectoplasmic limb or an astral projection by spending PPE...

Astral Jaguars who can slash up vampires unopposed might explain why they out of all werecreatures are the instinctive enemy of vampires, and how a small community of 100 of them could (Conversion Book 193 and Vampire Kingdoms 159) protect local humans in Palenque from vampires.

Looking at the map on page 158, it has the Milta kingdom to the west which on page 55 says it has 1000 secondaries in the capital, 2800 active vamps total (500 suspended) split into dozens of villages each with 10-60 secondaries (meaning at least 240) 800 secondaries are in Minatitlan.

Of course, looking at the map, there seem to be 2 visible rivers in the way, which would greatly slow any incursions. Astral Jaguars would only have to scout new vampires being created on the other side of the river and humans trying to sneak their vampire masters across the water.