Macross Cannon in Rifts (spun off from How to Handle the Xit

[guardiandashi]

since Pepsi Keeps saying the satellites are auto kills on the Macross Cannon (they aren't)

Mutants in orbit pg 85
Satellites as Weapons:

Old Kinetic Kill Rocket
size 2d4X10 lbs
Damage 5D6 sdc, (or 3d6 MD)
rate of fire one
2 mile effective range
has a drive that propels it at mach 1D4+1 to ram, if it has blades or fins, add 1d6 damage

Old Brilliant Pebbles Missile
1D4 tons
damage 2d6X100 sdc or 4d6X10 MD
effective range 2 miles
these are semi smart nuclear missiles that launch when a target is recognized mach 1d4+1
there are around 1000 kinetic kill weapons and 500 Brilliant Pebbles still in earth orbit.

rail gun (new)
1D6+1 tons
damage 2D6X10 sdc, or 1D6X10 MD
effective range 6000 ft triple in space.
payload 40 shots then empty and cannot fire, can be manually reloaded.
rate of fire up to 6 shots/round all shots have to be at the same target.

old chemical laser
2d4X10 sdc or 5D6 MD
four attacks/melee
range 4000 ft triple in space
16 shots before needing to recharge for 4d6 hours

old X-Ray laser
1d6x1000 sdc or 2d4X100 MD
range 20,000 ft triple in space
payload 10 shots cannot be recharged
only about a dozen or so left

Standard laser (New)
3D6 X10 sdc or 1d6 X10 MD
4 attacks/melee
range 6000 ft triple in space
payload effectively unlimited

Giant Free Electron Laser (New)
1d6 X100 SDC or 4D6 X10 MD
3 attacks/melee
range 6000 ft triple in space
payload 40 shots before needing 1D6 X 10 minutes to recharge

Particle Beam (New)
4D6X10 SDC or 2D6 X10 MD
5 attacks/melee
range 4000 ft triple in space
payload 30 requiring 1D6X10 minutes to recharge

Mini-Missile Launcher (New)
plasma mini-Missiles
payload 24
rate of fire, 1, 2, or 4

decoy satellites

so honestly the only satellites (other than the counter orbit debris field) that is really a threat are the old xray satellites

[The Beast]

RAW, the debris ring destroys 90% of what comes up from Earth.

[taalismn]

RAW, the debris ring destroys 90% of what comes up from Earth.

Because in space, Newton's a mean ####er.

[eliakon]

The debris field would be a pretty nasty encounter.
Things in orbit are moving rather fast and getting hit with them would rather be like being sand blasted with a rail gun...

As for shooting things down, the X-ray sats apparently shoot things that venture to high.
Though it would seem that there should be some other hitherto unstated super guns doing that shooting, since the kill sats don't have the range to reach the altitude that they are supposed to cover, and they don't do enough damage to shoot down the things that they are said to shoot down.

[taalismn]

The debris field would be a pretty nasty encounter.
Things in orbit are moving rather fast and getting hit with them would rather be like being sand blasted with a rail gun...

As for shooting things down, the X-ray sats apparently shoot things that venture to high.
Though it would seem that there should be some other hitherto unstated super guns doing that shooting, since the kill sats don't have the range to reach the altitude that they are supposed to cover, and they don't do enough damage to shoot down the things that they are said to shoot down.

I'm assuming the weapons list for MiO is more of what you can expect the Orbits to throw at each other. The real heavy hitters are the stuff that they can throw down the gravity well and not each other, and the major stations may have a 'gentleman's agreement' that despite their differences, the x-ray lasers and other big guns are to be reserved for stopping any nastiness coming up from Earth, or out of a Rift, and not for carving open habitat modules in the space colonies. Despite their bitter differences, the Orbitals, I think, would rather board and rob each other than wipe each other out. They might even have a code of conduct that obvious warships and robots are fair game, but unarmed habitats are to be left alone. You can capture them, you can ransom them(anywhere from a token payment to all their non-vital materials and a percentage of their life support reserves)m but you can't destroy them. Doing so gets you classified as a pirate and EVERYBODY guns for you.

[Pepsi Jedi]

since Pepsi Keeps saying the satellites are auto kills on the Macross Cannon (they aren't)

Mutants in orbit pg 85
Satellites as Weapons:

Old Kinetic Kill Rocket
size 2d4X10 lbs
Damage 5D6 sdc, (or 3d6 MD)
rate of fire one
2 mile effective range
has a drive that propels it at mach 1D4+1 to ram, if it has blades or fins, add 1d6 damage

Old Brilliant Pebbles Missile
1D4 tons
damage 2d6X100 sdc or 4d6X10 MD
effective range 2 miles
these are semi smart nuclear missiles that launch when a target is recognized mach 1d4+1
there are around 1000 kinetic kill weapons and 500 Brilliant Pebbles still in earth orbit.

rail gun (new)
1D6+1 tons
damage 2D6X10 sdc, or 1D6X10 MD
effective range 6000 ft triple in space.
payload 40 shots then empty and cannot fire, can be manually reloaded.
rate of fire up to 6 shots/round all shots have to be at the same target.

old chemical laser
2d4X10 sdc or 5D6 MD
four attacks/melee
range 4000 ft triple in space
16 shots before needing to recharge for 4d6 hours

old X-Ray laser
1d6x1000 sdc or 2d4X100 MD
range 20,000 ft triple in space
payload 10 shots cannot be recharged
only about a dozen or so left

Standard laser (New)
3D6 X10 sdc or 1d6 X10 MD
4 attacks/melee
range 6000 ft triple in space
payload effectively unlimited

Giant Free Electron Laser (New)
1d6 X100 SDC or 4D6 X10 MD
3 attacks/melee
range 6000 ft triple in space
payload 40 shots before needing 1D6 X 10 minutes to recharge

Particle Beam (New)
4D6X10 SDC or 2D6 X10 MD
5 attacks/melee
range 4000 ft triple in space
payload 30 requiring 1D6X10 minutes to recharge

Mini-Missile Launcher (New)
plasma mini-Missiles
payload 24
rate of fire, 1, 2, or 4

decoy satellites

so honestly the only satellites (other than the counter orbit debris field) that is really a threat are the old xray satellites

For the record. I asked if they were detailed, because I hadn't opened the crappy book in years to look. And they're written as auto kill in all the other books. I was careful to say I could be wrong, and if someone had pages. I'd look at them.

As written some of them can do 800MD with one shot, and 8000md in two minutes. Nothing to sneeze at. (Granted they're done after that, but what ever they do 8,000MD to isn't going to like it very much.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The debris field would be a pretty nasty encounter.
Things in orbit are moving rather fast and getting hit with them would rather be like being sand blasted with a rail gun...

As for shooting things down, the X-ray sats apparently shoot things that venture to high.
Though it would seem that there should be some other hitherto unstated super guns doing that shooting, since the kill sats don't have the range to reach the altitude that they are supposed to cover, and they don't do enough damage to shoot down the things that they are said to shoot down.

I'm assuming the weapons list for MiO is more of what you can expect the Orbits to throw at each other. The real heavy hitters are the stuff that they can throw down the gravity well and not each other, and the major stations may have a 'gentleman's agreement' that despite their differences, the x-ray lasers and other big guns are to be reserved for stopping any nastiness coming up from Earth, or out of a Rift, and not for carving open habitat modules in the space colonies. Despite their bitter differences, the Orbitals, I think, would rather board and rob each other than wipe each other out. They might even have a code of conduct that obvious warships and robots are fair game, but unarmed habitats are to be left alone. You can capture them, you can ransom them(anywhere from a token payment to all their non-vital materials and a percentage of their life support reserves)m but you can't destroy them. Doing so gets you classified as a pirate and EVERYBODY guns for you.

This is more or less my reading as well. As detailed the sat's in MiO are nasty if you're on a little shuttle puttering around up there between space stations, but couldn't even effectively cordon off Flordia, much less the entire planet for over 300 years as is written in the books, with high tech military powers with golden age super science and MDC materials being unable to -ever- breach space.

We did it in the 50s guys, with vehicles less complicated than our refrigerators (not even on the same scale as our watches or phones)

Which circles back around to "Anything trying to leave the planet is more or less auto killed, and that space is "off limits" To those on rifts earth"

Yes, it's sloppy writing. I love mutant animals, TMNT/ ATB, it was my first and fave game. I even love rifts, but the MiO/Rifts space stuff was a hand wave in the first rifts book that they got stuck with and instead of retconning it, tried to run with it and it just got dumber and dumber.

[Axelmania]

Splitting this off is appreciated. I don't supposed any mods could also move some of the posters about this from the old thread to this one?

About the 90% thing, I see that as a generalization, meaning 90% of the stuff was too weak to survive first encounter, like maybe that Cosmo Knight. I think the SDF has more MDC than a Cosmo-Knight though so it would be likely to survive.

It's not like you roll percentile for survival, it's combat as usual.

[ShadowLogan]

As for shooting things down, the X-ray sats apparently shoot things that venture to high.
Though it would seem that there should be some other hitherto unstated super guns doing that shooting, since the kill sats don't have the range to reach the altitude that they are supposed to cover, and they don't do enough damage to shoot down the things that they are said to shoot down.

The problem is that if you read the X-ray sats description they state "... so X-ray lasers tend to be pointed out into space. Thankfully there are only about a dozen or so left."

As written some of them can do 800MD with one shot, and 8000md in two minutes. Nothing to sneeze at. (Granted they're done after that, but what ever they do 8,000MD to isn't going to like it very much.

The X-Ray laser though "tend to be pointed out into space", which means the few (12 or so) left are pointing in the wrong direction. It also has to be pointed out again that the Macross Cannon has a range advantage over these kill satellites. So yes a few might be able to do 800MD given enough time (or quickly), but they also require the target to be within range and just sit there and take it.

For comparison the 3 big ranged beam weapons on the MC are its 20,000mile/32,000,000m twin disintegration cannons, 15mile/25,600m secondary beam cannon, and the main weapons on the Defender-EX Robot at 10miles/16,000m in space, with the other Robot/Valk guns being more comparable to the Killer Satellites. That means the X-Ray Satellites 11.4mile/18,300m range is outclassed by the secondary beam cannons (which can fire 5times each per melee and basically destroy any satellite they hit as they do 1d6x1000 MD vs 1d6x100MDC sats). The more common satellites though have less range, with the best at 18,000ft/5490m IINM, meaning the Macross2 force can shoot first against any Orbital satellite/ship/bot/PA.

You are also ignoring the rules/statements in Macross Deckplans and Rifts Fleets of the 3 Galaxies about "fighter vs capital ship" effectiveness (for all practical purposes the satellites ARE fighters). Which restrict the outcome to a "battered" MC not a kill.

The Counter Orbit Debris Field is only effective 90% of the time (stated in the book), and might be the only thing the ship has to contend with. The CODF should appear on Radar though, which means the crew of the Macross Cannon could take action to clear a path for them (remember it can create a path 1mile wide by 20,000miles long with the main gun that destroys everything in its path, an MC can fit in such a corridor) and neutralize the CODF (and likely take out some of the killer satellites).

[drewkitty ~..~]

This all presumes the SDF ship or the MCs were somehow rifted to the surface of the earth. They are more likely to have rifted (folded?) to deep space and upon returning to earth finding it somehow changed. Not the earth they left from.

I disagree with the core premiss of the argument that they would of have been rifted to the surface of rifts earth.
That is my 2 cents worth.

[Axelmania]

Isn't the immobility solvable by getting a TW to add a 'fly as the eagle' enhancement?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Isn't the immobility solvable by getting a TW to add a 'fly as the eagle' enhancement?

I'm pretty sure that is going to cost a lot and require a Large amount of energy,time and money.

[Axelmania]

Cost/Energy/Time appears to be fixed regardless of vehicle you upgrade.