Ironwood and MDC leather armor replicas?

[ShadowLogan]

I just want to know if I make a wall of ironwood boards how many I can nail to the side if the APC.

With Vibro-nails?

The only way I can see V-nails working would be having the nail attached to the vibro-driver and the nail is left in. The motions would be more like a screw-gun and screws then nails and hammer.

No, the motion would likely be closer to a nailgun or stapler than a screwgun. I see it working in a nailgun basically by using a residually imparted temporary field long enough for a nailgun to drive it in.

[wyrmraker]

I just want to know if I make a wall of ironwood boards how many I can nail to the side if the APC.

With Vibro-nails?

The only way I can see V-nails working would be having the nail attached to the vibro-driver and the nail is left in. The motions would be more like a screw-gun and screws then nails and hammer.

No, the motion would likely be closer to a nailgun or stapler than a screwgun. I see it working in a nailgun basically by using a residually imparted temporary field long enough for a nailgun to drive it in.

Or a mega-damage pneumatic or primer-driven power hammer.

[Zamion138]

I would allow it, but the cost of such a piece of armor would be at least triple to quadruple what a normal equivalent suit of armor or power armor would cost.

In construction time id give you 4x longer but cost wise, wood is infinitely cheaper than mdc metal and ceramics. Id make it cost for sure but if anything it would be cheaper.
Heck you could repair small things with planks and wood fiber glue.



Also

Wood will protect from radiation. But 4 inches of lead is as good as 110 inches of wood, now you can line the wood with lead, but 4 inches of lead on the helmet, and the chest would cut down the fear of radiation posioning ionizing particles.

I would increase the cost for several reasons.

1. Supply and Demand. Most people won't need wood armor and would be able to use conventionally made armors without restriction, so fewer sets of armor would be getting made which would also make it harder to find readily available.

2. Manufacturing Process. Unlike more conventional suits of armor which have assembly lines set up to automate the process, these armors would need to be hand made from the ground up (the time can be cut by 1/6 by using the spell Time Hole, but that is a high level spell which is not readily available, but then Ironwood is also a fairly high level spell so it could be estimated that a mage with access to Ironwood stands a pretty decent chance of having access to Time Hole as well, but I digress). The up side to this aspect is that it can easily accommodate creatures of unusual sizes and shapes (such as Rahu-Men, Centaurs, etc.) since each suit of armor is a custom job that is fitted to each person to begin with.

3. Skill. There are two aspects of skill that need to be examined when we think of these armors: the technical skill to form and shape the wood and leather the way it's needed to, and the mystical skill to enchant the wood with the spell Ironwood. The first part only requires someone with the skills Whittling and Leather Working (and probably also Field Armorer based on GM fiat). The second part however is the most critical, and that is a magic user that has the spell Ironwood. According to the books, magic users are already a small portion of the overall population, and mages who have access to Ironwood is a smaller group still. And among those we need a mage who willing to not venture out on adventures (at least as often as others) and presumably have a workshop in which they can work (they don't need a workshop to begin with, but it makes the process easier). Most likely we are going to be looking at mostly retirees. I would estimate that in all of North America, we could count on our fingers the number of mages that fit all of these criteria.

3a. Now there is another option that doesn't need a mage to enchant wood with Ironwood, and that is the SteelTrees in the Dinosaur Swamps, however there is the issue of safely harvesting a tree (the Dinosaur Swamps come by their name honestly), hauling the lumber to someplace where it can be processed, and finding someone who knows the secrets in working with SteelTree wood. Also armor made from the wood of a SteelTree is more vulnerable to fire and plasma damage. However the city of Char is thinking about opening a store that openly sells SteelTree armor to the public. All information on SteelTree armors can be found in World Book 26: Dinosaur Swamp on page 80.

Ok maybe we had a disconnect you are talking about them buying a suit. I ment them making it themselves, like they have the iron wood spell.
For sale I agree its a crazy one off that would cost alot, but construction cost for a PC fabricate it would not be tripple cost of a suit.

[dragonfett]

I would allow it, but the cost of such a piece of armor would be at least triple to quadruple what a normal equivalent suit of armor or power armor would cost.

In construction time id give you 4x longer but cost wise, wood is infinitely cheaper than mdc metal and ceramics. Id make it cost for sure but if anything it would be cheaper.
Heck you could repair small things with planks and wood fiber glue.



Also

Wood will protect from radiation. But 4 inches of lead is as good as 110 inches of wood, now you can line the wood with lead, but 4 inches of lead on the helmet, and the chest would cut down the fear of radiation posioning ionizing particles.

I would increase the cost for several reasons.

1. Supply and Demand. Most people won't need wood armor and would be able to use conventionally made armors without restriction, so fewer sets of armor would be getting made which would also make it harder to find readily available.

2. Manufacturing Process. Unlike more conventional suits of armor which have assembly lines set up to automate the process, these armors would need to be hand made from the ground up (the time can be cut by 1/6 by using the spell Time Hole, but that is a high level spell which is not readily available, but then Ironwood is also a fairly high level spell so it could be estimated that a mage with access to Ironwood stands a pretty decent chance of having access to Time Hole as well, but I digress). The up side to this aspect is that it can easily accommodate creatures of unusual sizes and shapes (such as Rahu-Men, Centaurs, etc.) since each suit of armor is a custom job that is fitted to each person to begin with.

3. Skill. There are two aspects of skill that need to be examined when we think of these armors: the technical skill to form and shape the wood and leather the way it's needed to, and the mystical skill to enchant the wood with the spell Ironwood. The first part only requires someone with the skills Whittling and Leather Working (and probably also Field Armorer based on GM fiat). The second part however is the most critical, and that is a magic user that has the spell Ironwood. According to the books, magic users are already a small portion of the overall population, and mages who have access to Ironwood is a smaller group still. And among those we need a mage who willing to not venture out on adventures (at least as often as others) and presumably have a workshop in which they can work (they don't need a workshop to begin with, but it makes the process easier). Most likely we are going to be looking at mostly retirees. I would estimate that in all of North America, we could count on our fingers the number of mages that fit all of these criteria.

3a. Now there is another option that doesn't need a mage to enchant wood with Ironwood, and that is the SteelTrees in the Dinosaur Swamps, however there is the issue of safely harvesting a tree (the Dinosaur Swamps come by their name honestly), hauling the lumber to someplace where it can be processed, and finding someone who knows the secrets in working with SteelTree wood. Also armor made from the wood of a SteelTree is more vulnerable to fire and plasma damage. However the city of Char is thinking about opening a store that openly sells SteelTree armor to the public. All information on SteelTree armors can be found in World Book 26: Dinosaur Swamp on page 80.

Ok maybe we had a disconnect you are talking about them buying a suit. I ment them making it themselves, like they have the iron wood spell.
For sale I agree its a crazy one off that would cost alot, but construction cost for a PC fabricate it would not be tripple cost of a suit.

Ah, then I misunderstood, for which I must apologize. I was under the impression the OP was talking about would it be feasible as a business venture to make fully EBA armor from Ironwood and MD strength leather, and how much said armor would sell for.

[Nightmask]

I would allow it, but the cost of such a piece of armor would be at least triple to quadruple what a normal equivalent suit of armor or power armor would cost.

In construction time id give you 4x longer but cost wise, wood is infinitely cheaper than mdc metal and ceramics. Id make it cost for sure but if anything it would be cheaper.
Heck you could repair small things with planks and wood fiber glue.



Also

Wood will protect from radiation. But 4 inches of lead is as good as 110 inches of wood, now you can line the wood with lead, but 4 inches of lead on the helmet, and the chest would cut down the fear of radiation posioning ionizing particles.

2. Manufacturing Process. Unlike more conventional suits of armor which have assembly lines set up to automate the process, these armors would need to be hand made from the ground up (the time can be cut by 1/6 by using the spell Time Hole, but that is a high level spell which is not readily available, but then Ironwood is also a fairly high level spell so it could be estimated that a mage with access to Ironwood stands a pretty decent chance of having access to Time Hole as well, but I digress). The up side to this aspect is that it can easily accommodate creatures of unusual sizes and shapes (such as Rahu-Men, Centaurs, etc.) since each suit of armor is a custom job that is fitted to each person to begin with.

Okay, why exactly do you think they'd have to be hand-crafted instead of done on an automated assembly line? Wooden items like furniture are produced on assembly lines all over the place (and just about put an end to fine, hand-crafted furniture for people) no reason you can't do the same with wood for this purpose either before or after enchanting the wood.

[ShadowLogan]

Ah, then I misunderstood, for which I must apologize. I was under the impression the OP was talking about would it be feasible as a business venture to make fully EBA armor from Ironwood and MD strength leather, and how much said armor would sell for.

Actually my impression is the OP isn't worried about this aspect looking at the actual post, they are looking to see if it is feasible without consideration if its is a "business" situation or a "DIY" situation.

[dragonfett]

I would allow it, but the cost of such a piece of armor would be at least triple to quadruple what a normal equivalent suit of armor or power armor would cost.

In construction time id give you 4x longer but cost wise, wood is infinitely cheaper than mdc metal and ceramics. Id make it cost for sure but if anything it would be cheaper.
Heck you could repair small things with planks and wood fiber glue.



Also

Wood will protect from radiation. But 4 inches of lead is as good as 110 inches of wood, now you can line the wood with lead, but 4 inches of lead on the helmet, and the chest would cut down the fear of radiation posioning ionizing particles.

2. Manufacturing Process. Unlike more conventional suits of armor which have assembly lines set up to automate the process, these armors would need to be hand made from the ground up (the time can be cut by 1/6 by using the spell Time Hole, but that is a high level spell which is not readily available, but then Ironwood is also a fairly high level spell so it could be estimated that a mage with access to Ironwood stands a pretty decent chance of having access to Time Hole as well, but I digress). The up side to this aspect is that it can easily accommodate creatures of unusual sizes and shapes (such as Rahu-Men, Centaurs, etc.) since each suit of armor is a custom job that is fitted to each person to begin with.

Okay, why exactly do you think they'd have to be hand-crafted instead of done on an automated assembly line? Wooden items like furniture are produced on assembly lines all over the place (and just about put an end to fine, hand-crafted furniture for people) no reason you can't do the same with wood for this purpose either before or after enchanting the wood.

This is true, however it is important to note that until they are making a high volume of orders, it would be impractical to buy the machinery to do so.

[Nightmask]

I would allow it, but the cost of such a piece of armor would be at least triple to quadruple what a normal equivalent suit of armor or power armor would cost.

In construction time id give you 4x longer but cost wise, wood is infinitely cheaper than mdc metal and ceramics. Id make it cost for sure but if anything it would be cheaper.
Heck you could repair small things with planks and wood fiber glue.



Also

Wood will protect from radiation. But 4 inches of lead is as good as 110 inches of wood, now you can line the wood with lead, but 4 inches of lead on the helmet, and the chest would cut down the fear of radiation posioning ionizing particles.

2. Manufacturing Process. Unlike more conventional suits of armor which have assembly lines set up to automate the process, these armors would need to be hand made from the ground up (the time can be cut by 1/6 by using the spell Time Hole, but that is a high level spell which is not readily available, but then Ironwood is also a fairly high level spell so it could be estimated that a mage with access to Ironwood stands a pretty decent chance of having access to Time Hole as well, but I digress). The up side to this aspect is that it can easily accommodate creatures of unusual sizes and shapes (such as Rahu-Men, Centaurs, etc.) since each suit of armor is a custom job that is fitted to each person to begin with.

Okay, why exactly do you think they'd have to be hand-crafted instead of done on an automated assembly line? Wooden items like furniture are produced on assembly lines all over the place (and just about put an end to fine, hand-crafted furniture for people) no reason you can't do the same with wood for this purpose either before or after enchanting the wood.

This is true, however it is important to note that until they are making a high volume of orders, it would be impractical to buy the machinery to do so.

Not really, at least no more so than buying the machinery to manufacture anything would be. Certainly if you're crafting items you want to have MDC instead of SDC it'd be likely cheaper machining wood and making it MDC via Ironwood and do the same with the leather than what it likely takes to convert raw materials into conventional MDC alloys.

[Shark_Force]

furniture is designed to take advantage of the actual shape of available wood.

the machinery to shape wood around a human form in such a way as to be (relatively) comfortable and (relatively) not bulky and awkward, you're going to need machinery far more advanced than anything we have today i would think. you can't just pour the wood into a mold, after all.

which is not to say that someone in rifts couldn't design it... i mean, if you can make a humanoid robot with the appropriate woodworking skills, and you can make the various tools needed, then worst case scenario the machinery to mass produce the armour would be a humanoid robot and regular lathes, saws, steam bending equipment, etc. but it would likely look rather different from manufacturing equipment today.

[wyrmraker]

furniture is designed to take advantage of the actual shape of available wood.

the machinery to shape wood around a human form in such a way as to be (relatively) comfortable and (relatively) not bulky and awkward, you're going to need machinery far more advanced than anything we have today i would think. you can't just pour the wood into a mold, after all.

which is not to say that someone in rifts couldn't design it... i mean, if you can make a humanoid robot with the appropriate woodworking skills, and you can make the various tools needed, then worst case scenario the machinery to mass produce the armour would be a humanoid robot and regular lathes, saws, steam bending equipment, etc. but it would likely look rather different from manufacturing equipment today.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you about the equipment. Osage Orange (second densest wood in the world iirc, ridiculously common in North America) can be milled, sawn, jointed, etc in pretty much the same way as any metal. Slightly different cutting bits are required, but the process is identical. And if the wood is SDC to begin with (to be enchanted after machining the shape out), that means the perfectly normal, modern equipment is more than capable of handling the task.

Mega-damage leather would likely need some specialized tools, but those tools clearly exist in Rifts, as evidenced by the various natural MD armors listed in the books.

[Shark_Force]

you can't pour it into a form. it doesn't come in perfectly shaped and sized blocks, cylinders, etc to be made into what you want, and it can't be welded either.

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

[Killer Cyborg]

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

Sure, but I don't know that such machinery would be difficult to come up with.

[wyrmraker]

you can't pour it into a form. it doesn't come in perfectly shaped and sized blocks, cylinders, etc to be made into what you want, and it can't be welded either.

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

No pouring, almost no molding. For molding, soaking the wook to flexibility and strapping it to a mold plate is standard. For hard wood, all I would actually need is a mill, a lathe, belt sander, drill press, and band saw. I work with all of this every day. Every Operator, Psi-Tek, and Techno-Wizard in the game has the skills to operate this equipment on metal.

As for joining it together, that's what ties, rivets, and the like are for. Welding is actually unnecessary for armor, and in the cases of many armor types thrpoughout the milennia, forge welding wasn't used for the assembly process.

[Zamion138]

So a Ng light labor bot has whitling and woodworking at a really decent level, they cost 2 million. They can work 20 hours and have a suggested 4 hour cool down period, now if you rent one im sure you could get it for like 5k a day or so but will skip that as no rules or guidlines exist for that.

Now they can also cut a tree down and process it. So you buy one then make it make a basic workshop, fall some trees and build your componets that will be wood.
While this is happening I suggest you drink iced tea or beer.
Then you wake up have breakfast and let it sleep for 4 hours while you do the iron wood spell.
Careful you might sweat so do this early in the morning while its still cool.
Now you have earned a nap, go enjoy it while the robot makes more suits. This can be taxing as you have to possibly hear all this commotion, have the robot stop, cook you breakfast or lunch depending on the legnth of your nap.
Once you have the desired number of suits peiced togeather, go buy the non armor parts that can't be made of wood, and the software if needed to put it together, robot mechanics should not be even close to the cost of the combat program, anyhow, build 1 complete unit sell it to another mage you dont fear killing you with it.
This has been pretty tiring for you so make that bot build you a home. When you have enough PA suits and body armor to your liking (months to do all this im sure) teach iron wood to a low level mage that you wish sleep with. He or she should be desprate but very attractive. Then sell them your bot, make it produces you both the best sandwich ever, then leave with your 3 or 4 suits of highly odd wooden armor.

Life is hard for the owner of a worker robot but you made it look easy and fun, good job!

[Shark_Force]

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

Sure, but I don't know that such machinery would be difficult to come up with.

with rifts tech, sure, no problem. with our tech, you're talking about setting up a factory that can make decisions. as in, artificial intelligence. now, rifts has some pretty danged good AI, and some really quite excellent 3d image recognition software. for them, it should be pretty easy. like I said, if nothing else, just get regular tools and a robot with the right skill program and you're all set.

you can't pour it into a form. it doesn't come in perfectly shaped and sized blocks, cylinders, etc to be made into what you want, and it can't be welded either.

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

No pouring, almost no molding. For molding, soaking the wook to flexibility and strapping it to a mold plate is standard. For hard wood, all I would actually need is a mill, a lathe, belt sander, drill press, and band saw. I work with all of this every day. Every Operator, Psi-Tek, and Techno-Wizard in the game has the skills to operate this equipment on metal.

As for joining it together, that's what ties, rivets, and the like are for. Welding is actually unnecessary for armor, and in the cases of many armor types thrpoughout the milennia, forge welding wasn't used for the assembly process.

yes, *you* can do that. humans are quite good at making decisions once they've become familiar with them. the odds of you randomly deciding to saw something in half when you need to drill a hole are very very tiny. to date, our artificial intelligence is not very good at making decisions like that consistently... think autocorrect, except instead of filling in text, you're building something to within a tolerance of a few 10,000ths of an inch. you're going to need to adjust the process (slightly) for each different piece you're working with. *you* do that automatically, which is why you can do all this stuff no problem. that is not going to be quite the same for mass producing wooden body armour.

so hey, if you're ok with your supposedly environmental armour having a not-quite-airtight seam in it somewhere, more power to you. personally, I find that I would rather not settle for letting in only a small amount of nerve gas; if I'm going to get environmental body armour, I won't settle for 99% environmental.

[wyrmraker]

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

Sure, but I don't know that such machinery would be difficult to come up with.

with rifts tech, sure, no problem. with our tech, you're talking about setting up a factory that can make decisions. as in, artificial intelligence. now, rifts has some pretty danged good AI, and some really quite excellent 3d image recognition software. for them, it should be pretty easy. like I said, if nothing else, just get regular tools and a robot with the right skill program and you're all set.

you can't pour it into a form. it doesn't come in perfectly shaped and sized blocks, cylinders, etc to be made into what you want, and it can't be welded either.

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

No pouring, almost no molding. For molding, soaking the wook to flexibility and strapping it to a mold plate is standard. For hard wood, all I would actually need is a mill, a lathe, belt sander, drill press, and band saw. I work with all of this every day. Every Operator, Psi-Tek, and Techno-Wizard in the game has the skills to operate this equipment on metal.

As for joining it together, that's what ties, rivets, and the like are for. Welding is actually unnecessary for armor, and in the cases of many armor types thrpoughout the milennia, forge welding wasn't used for the assembly process.

yes, *you* can do that. humans are quite good at making decisions once they've become familiar with them. the odds of you randomly deciding to saw something in half when you need to drill a hole are very very tiny. to date, our artificial intelligence is not very good at making decisions like that consistently... think autocorrect, except instead of filling in text, you're building something to within a tolerance of a few 10,000ths of an inch. you're going to need to adjust the process (slightly) for each different piece you're working with. *you* do that automatically, which is why you can do all this stuff no problem. that is not going to be quite the same for mass producing wooden body armour.

so hey, if you're ok with your supposedly environmental armour having a not-quite-airtight seam in it somewhere, more power to you. personally, I find that I would rather not settle for letting in only a small amount of nerve gas; if I'm going to get environmental body armour, I won't settle for 99% environmental.

I see. The problem here is Overcomplication. Here's jow I would solve that:
***
Me: Hey GM, I have an idea. I wanna make an environmental suit out of wood. What do I need for that?
GM: Whaaaaaat? Why do you wanna do that?
Me: A wild hair crawled up there. C'mon and humor me, man.
GM: Okay, okay... (Many hours of rough calculation and possibly alcohol later) Okay, you'll need [list of materials] and roll the following at -X%, since you're not used to working with wood as armor.
Me: Okay, I got the [list of ingredients] and I'm in my workshop. Rolling... Okay, I got the rolls.
GM: It takes you a few days, but you get it cranked out and assembled.
Me: Now I wanna cast Ironwood on all the wood parts, and replace the leather bits with that MD leather we got four games ago.
GM: I hate you and I hope [insert terrible fate here] happens to you.
***
As it should be, the procedure is that the Player asks the GM what is required, the GM responds with lists of materials and skill rolls, and the Player runs the Fetch Quest. Most RPGs don't worry about that level of munitiae, because it's mostly irrelevant. What's the SDC of the Henry VII armor I just carved from oak? Okay, now I cast Ironwood on all it's pieces, and have a Mega-Damage suit of full armor that's been custom fitted to me. The standard armor qualities? Lemme roll my various skills.

That's it.

[wyrmraker]

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

Sure, but I don't know that such machinery would be difficult to come up with.

with rifts tech, sure, no problem. with our tech, you're talking about setting up a factory that can make decisions. as in, artificial intelligence. now, rifts has some pretty danged good AI, and some really quite excellent 3d image recognition software. for them, it should be pretty easy. like I said, if nothing else, just get regular tools and a robot with the right skill program and you're all set.

you can't pour it into a form. it doesn't come in perfectly shaped and sized blocks, cylinders, etc to be made into what you want, and it can't be welded either.

you're going to need machinery that can adjust for the fact that you're dealing with a formerly living thing that is not identical to every other piece of material you're working with.

No pouring, almost no molding. For molding, soaking the wook to flexibility and strapping it to a mold plate is standard. For hard wood, all I would actually need is a mill, a lathe, belt sander, drill press, and band saw. I work with all of this every day. Every Operator, Psi-Tek, and Techno-Wizard in the game has the skills to operate this equipment on metal.

As for joining it together, that's what ties, rivets, and the like are for. Welding is actually unnecessary for armor, and in the cases of many armor types thrpoughout the milennia, forge welding wasn't used for the assembly process.

yes, *you* can do that. humans are quite good at making decisions once they've become familiar with them. the odds of you randomly deciding to saw something in half when you need to drill a hole are very very tiny. to date, our artificial intelligence is not very good at making decisions like that consistently... think autocorrect, except instead of filling in text, you're building something to within a tolerance of a few 10,000ths of an inch. you're going to need to adjust the process (slightly) for each different piece you're working with. *you* do that automatically, which is why you can do all this stuff no problem. that is not going to be quite the same for mass producing wooden body armour.

so hey, if you're ok with your supposedly environmental armour having a not-quite-airtight seam in it somewhere, more power to you. personally, I find that I would rather not settle for letting in only a small amount of nerve gas; if I'm going to get environmental body armour, I won't settle for 99% environmental.

I see. The problem here is Overcomplication. Here's jow I would solve that:
***
Me: Hey GM, I have an idea. I wanna make an environmental suit out of wood. What do I need for that?
GM: Whaaaaaat? Why do you wanna do that?
Me: A wild hair crawled up there. C'mon and humor me, man.
GM: Okay, okay... (Many hours of rough calculation and possibly alcohol later) Okay, you'll need [list of materials] and roll the following at -X%, since you're not used to working with wood as armor.
Me: Okay, I got the [list of ingredients] and I'm in my workshop. Rolling... Okay, I got the rolls.
GM: It takes you a few days, but you get it cranked out and assembled.
Me: Now I wanna cast Ironwood on all the wood parts, and replace the leather bits with that MD leather we got four games ago.
GM: I hate you and I hope [insert terrible fate here] happens to you.
***
As it should be, the procedure is that the Player asks the GM what is required, the GM responds with lists of materials and skill rolls, and the Player runs the Fetch Quest. Most RPGs don't worry about that level of munitiae, because it's mostly irrelevant. What's the SDC of the Henry VII armor I just carved from oak? Okay, now I cast Ironwood on all it's pieces, and have a Mega-Damage suit of full armor that's been custom fitted to me. The standard armor qualities? Lemme roll my various skills. It's *almost* but not quite environmental? Tell me what I need to roll to fix that.

That's it.

[Shark_Force]

I see. The problem here is Overcomplication. Here's jow I would solve that:
***
Me: Hey GM, I have an idea. I wanna make an environmental suit out of wood. What do I need for that?
GM: Whaaaaaat? Why do you wanna do that?
Me: A wild hair crawled up there. C'mon and humor me, man.
GM: Okay, okay... (Many hours of rough calculation and possibly alcohol later) Okay, you'll need [list of materials] and roll the following at -X%, since you're not used to working with wood as armor.
Me: Okay, I got the [list of ingredients] and I'm in my workshop. Rolling... Okay, I got the rolls.
GM: It takes you a few days, but you get it cranked out and assembled.
Me: Now I wanna cast Ironwood on all the wood parts, and replace the leather bits with that MD leather we got four games ago.
GM: I hate you and I hope [insert terrible fate here] happens to you.
***
As it should be, the procedure is that the Player asks the GM what is required, the GM responds with lists of materials and skill rolls, and the Player runs the Fetch Quest. Most RPGs don't worry about that level of munitiae, because it's mostly irrelevant. What's the SDC of the Henry VII armor I just carved from oak? Okay, now I cast Ironwood on all it's pieces, and have a Mega-Damage suit of full armor that's been custom fitted to me. The standard armor qualities? Lemme roll my various skills.

That's it.

ok, context time.

go back upthread until you get to the part where people are talking about mass-producing suits of armour with an automated factory vs hand-crafting (which is basically what you're doing).

my point was never that you couldn't custom build such a thing. in fact i indicated that you could several times.

[wyrmraker]

I see. The problem here is Overcomplication. Here's jow I would solve that:
***
Me: Hey GM, I have an idea. I wanna make an environmental suit out of wood. What do I need for that?
GM: Whaaaaaat? Why do you wanna do that?
Me: A wild hair crawled up there. C'mon and humor me, man.
GM: Okay, okay... (Many hours of rough calculation and possibly alcohol later) Okay, you'll need [list of materials] and roll the following at -X%, since you're not used to working with wood as armor.
Me: Okay, I got the [list of ingredients] and I'm in my workshop. Rolling... Okay, I got the rolls.
GM: It takes you a few days, but you get it cranked out and assembled.
Me: Now I wanna cast Ironwood on all the wood parts, and replace the leather bits with that MD leather we got four games ago.
GM: I hate you and I hope [insert terrible fate here] happens to you.
***
As it should be, the procedure is that the Player asks the GM what is required, the GM responds with lists of materials and skill rolls, and the Player runs the Fetch Quest. Most RPGs don't worry about that level of munitiae, because it's mostly irrelevant. What's the SDC of the Henry VII armor I just carved from oak? Okay, now I cast Ironwood on all it's pieces, and have a Mega-Damage suit of full armor that's been custom fitted to me. The standard armor qualities? Lemme roll my various skills.

That's it.

ok, context time.

go back upthread until you get to the part where people are talking about mass-producing suits of armour with an automated factory vs hand-crafting (which is basically what you're doing).

my point was never that you couldn't custom build such a thing. in fact i indicated that you could several times.

Ah, I get it now. Many apologies for my misperception.