Anti-Glitterboy Measures That Work

[ShadowLogan]

@J_cobbers
Who says that to get to the great height you need to use Teleport spells? You could physically transport it up (Dragon grabs it and takes off for ex). No reason that Teleport has to be the default. I had considered the GB's thrusters, but IMHO they would be to weak to make much of a difference given the leap height and hover endurance, though one could go with a higher altitude.

The Juggernaut has a crew of 4, two are gunners, so if each has 4 attacks before non-hth skills/abilities/bonuses the GB is going to be out actioned. The GB would have to deal with a 400MDC force field and the 900MDC main body. Granted if you have to go with another tank, range & MDC are going to generally be an issue with the few tanks I looked at.

While spells chosen are dodgable, and they are PPE expensive... That is partly why I suggest they be part of a TW device, you can't really remove the dodge thing, but you can use it to reduce the PPE cost for the attack and might even be able to construct something to adjust for the range.

Also Rifts Railguns are likley closer to "Coilguns" than real railguns.

Even it this were true they're still bulky (a lot bulkier than the one Killer Cyborg linked to) and still have limited range. Putting a radar system on cargo trucks and driving it into battle with only a few hundred meters of range is not feasible and it does not happen today. They don't even seem to be deployed to static positions like checkpoints.

Once again, I did not say it's not possible they were tried and discarded in the future. I said it's not the only possibility.

The point though is that EMP weapons can come in a variety of forms, sizes and effective ranges. Also the US in 2012 tested CHOMPS missile with a EMP warhead. So the technology is feasible.

KCs example though is for a specific role (stopping a car), it's range is probably limited because of that role. Raython has a high powered microwave system that can potentially reach 100miles (160km) intended for airport protection (http://www.livescience.com/435-radar-death-ray.html).

the falling rules are different for people in MDC armour... now, that's quite silly from a physics perspective. it should merely change to them splatting against the inside of their armour rather than splatting into the ground.

Those are the rules for people falling in MDC armor (including body armor, EBA, and PA) RUE is 1pt per 20ft. A fall from that height might not "harm" the armor, but there is a transfer of energy to the person inside the armor that inflicts damage, even with all that padding.

I don't know that sonic weapons are easily made in Rifts North America.

I don't think eliakon was focused on just North America in that assessment though. Eliakon does have a point though, that we do see some systems that are presented as exotic that should really be more wide spread. I'm not saying everything on the list should be more widely adopted (ex knock down shells), but some items on the list certainly make a certain amount of sense.

Sonic Technology in NA is pretty unheard of I think in NA with only the "sonic weapon" being a specific insect types repellent (unless you look at TWdry, in SB1o pg60). Non-TW sonic weapons outside of NA are (AFAIK) limited to a Triax Rifle (Underseas) & a suitcase system (Triax2), two 'bots (Mecha-Lizard 'PA'in SA2 and Banshee in Japan) where it is a BFG.

The "dazzler rounds, spoofers, stunners, blinders," is probably a generic listing of things like the Wilk's Beehive Grenade (WB14), that Mamoth 'bot in WB9 (death mirrors), sensor spoofers (WB10 BA features & WB14 Wild Weseal Samas), and "stun" weapons.

[Natasha]

Even it this were true they're still bulky (a lot bulkier than the one Killer Cyborg linked to) and still have limited range. Putting a radar system on cargo trucks and driving it into battle with only a few hundred meters of range is not feasible and it does not happen today. They don't even seem to be deployed to static positions like checkpoints.

Once again, I did not say it's not possible they were tried and discarded in the future. I said it's not the only possibility.

The point though is that EMP weapons can come in a variety of forms, sizes and effective ranges. Also the US in 2012 tested CHOMPS missile with a EMP warhead. So the technology is feasible.

KCs example though is for a specific role (stopping a car), it's range is probably limited because of that role. Raython has a high powered microwave system that can potentially reach 100miles (160km) intended for airport protection (http://www.livescience.com/435-radar-death-ray.html).

The technology is real but deployable weapons are not (yet). It's all still just theory and tests that never seem to go anywhere, and when I look for weaponised EMP I mostly find discussions on prepper sites. When I look at e-warfighting operational documents, EMP only gets listed in the glossary. If EMP weaponry is on the verge of deployment, then it's super secret. I couldn't find anything on CHOMPS using "2012 CHOMPS test" and scanning the first few results. what is CHOMPS? I read the Raytheon article and it seems to be discussing jamming which is different from EMP. The site was terribly slow and never fully loaded so I may have missed something.

[Axelmania]

How possible would it be to auto-parry a Boom-Gun blast? I don't care how many penalties it inflicts, any chance to survive is better than none. Probably not that much worse than a -5 or -10 to dodge it, especially if it saves an action.

Ultimate 361 only mentions dodging bullets. Would the rules on Conversion Book Revised page 19 still apply? Boom Gun rounds are not explosives/grenades/missiles so they should be allowed right?

Even though that header says "dodging energy blasts" it seems to address any modern weapons.

If it's -10 within 400 feet and -12 over 500 feet then would you figure -11 at 400-500 ?

I don't know if Men at Arms' +1 parry within 30 feet would apply only to energy weapons or to bullets too.

[ShadowLogan]

@Natasha
I'm moving my reply to the EMP thread that spun off here.

@Axelmania
I think you answered your own question, CB1R would still apply. I do no think BG rounds can be parried since the break up into sub-munitions resulting in an area effect attack, it would be no different than bursts (I thought there was a statement that bursts could not be parried, but I don't remember were I saw it).

The ability to parry modern ranged weapons seems to be class specific, not a general thing to.

[HWalsh]

To strictly interpret the rules if your class is one of the few classes that can parry an energy blast/bullet then, yes, you can parry a Boom Zgun as, by the rules, it isn't a burst.

[eliakon]

Combat mage with
the spells Invisibility: Simple, Aura of Death, Mystic Marksmanship
W.P. Energy Rifle
Sniper Skill
I would suggest taking Prowl and Stalking myself, but that's just optional
A Phase Beamer
And Can opener for extracting the corpse

[HWalsh]

Another method would also be to use Kamikaze Hoverbikes. Armor the bike up so it can survive a hit from the Boomgun, load it up with explosives, or warheads, set them to go off after an impact if the arming trigger is activated, add a robot to pilot it and press the arming trigger right before impact.

With enough warheads this thing would go up like a Roman candle.

[J_cobbers]

Another method would also be to use Kamikaze Hoverbikes. Armor the bike up so it can survive a hit from the Boomgun, load it up with explosives, or warheads, set them to go off after an impact if the arming trigger is activated, add a robot to pilot it and press the arming trigger right before impact.

With enough warheads this thing would go up like a Roman candle.

GB targets either the robot piloting thing, as few have more than the average MD dealt by the Boom gun, or GB targets all the explosives you strap to it. Most Hover bikes are open air, meaning the pilot is exposed. If you apply the optional knock down rules as well, there is a high chance the pilot would be thrown off the bike as well, or the bike itself would. If the GB hit's the bomb you put on there, you get premature detonation or disarmament. (I might make the GB roll a demolitions disposal skill to know where to shoot it). This all of course is predicated on the GB seeing the tactic for what it is of course. So it might work. Gonna have to be a really big bomb to get through that 770 MDC.

[ShadowLogan]

Anti-Glitterboy Measure:
X-Ray Laser from Mutants in Orbit (pg86). Out-ranges a Glitterboy (nearly x2) and it can potentially one shot it. While it is classified as a laser, I think we can pretty much rule out the GB's chrome being effective against the light frequencies of this laser given it would be a non-standard laser frequency (especially true when you consider that mirrors don't work with this type of laser, so the GB isn't going to be diffusing the hit with their chrome material).

The main drawback is finding such a system on Rifts Earth.

Anti-Glitterboy Measure:
Attack Nano-bots. Re-program some repair nanobots (from Bionics SB) to attack, then disperse as a submunition on the glitterboy (would also attack anything else escorting) to disable the suit (or its weapons). Basically a variant of Japan's Dissolver (?) warheads that use nanobots to destroy/weaken a target.

Another method would also be to use Kamikaze Hoverbikes. Armor the bike up so it can survive a hit from the Boomgun, load it up with explosives, or warheads, set them to go off after an impact if the arming trigger is activated, add a robot to pilot it and press the arming trigger right before impact.

With enough warheads this thing would go up like a Roman candle.

So you want to turn that hoverbike into a missile? Wouldn't a smart missile and launcher be cheaper and easier to procure than this setup?

[HWalsh]

Another method would also be to use Kamikaze Hoverbikes. Armor the bike up so it can survive a hit from the Boomgun, load it up with explosives, or warheads, set them to go off after an impact if the arming trigger is activated, add a robot to pilot it and press the arming trigger right before impact.

With enough warheads this thing would go up like a Roman candle.

GB targets either the robot piloting thing, as few have more than the average MD dealt by the Boom gun, or GB targets all the explosives you strap to it. Most Hover bikes are open air, meaning the pilot is exposed. If you apply the optional knock down rules as well, there is a high chance the pilot would be thrown off the bike as well, or the bike itself would. If the GB hit's the bomb you put on there, you get premature detonation or disarmament. (I might make the GB roll a demolitions disposal skill to know where to shoot it). This all of course is predicated on the GB seeing the tactic for what it is of course. So it might work. Gonna have to be a really big bomb to get through that 770 MDC.

Since you'd be modifying the bike for this purpose anyway, you encapsulate the pilot in a compartment, the bombs are in the same compartment, 2 mid-range multi-missile warheads per vehicle. You couldn't target the pilot or the bombs, you'd have to take out the cover first, which would not incapacitate the bike. Boom, they slam for 10d6x10 to all targets within a 20ft radius (probably only 1 or 2) and impact damage (probably 2d4 M.D) to the struck target. 2 of these, on average roll of 3.5 would do around 310 MDC each, or 620 MDC together. Not enough to kill a Glitterboy certainly, but more than enough to make one of them (or 2 of them) realize that they just got heavily damaged.

Of course this is also a heavy cost option, a few hundred K for the bike, up to 2 million per robot, I'm not even sure how much per missile but that can't be cheap. Then, after the first ones go, they will simply focus fire down any additional bikes so you really are only going to get one shot at this. Rolling with impact can greatly reduce the damage as well. If you are willing to spend up to 5 million credits to inflict significant damage on probably, at most, 2 Glitterboys it is viable.

Now... If you can somehow maneuver this so the GBs have to cross into a narrow location... If you could nail 3-4 of them in the radius... (and this isn't a big radius after all) then it might indeed be worth the price.

[HWalsh]

So you want to turn that hoverbike into a missile? Wouldn't a smart missile and launcher be cheaper and easier to procure than this setup?

The Smart Missile can be shot down more easily. The problem with using missiles vs a Boom Gun is the Boom Gun, with a GB Elite pilot, is usually accurate enough to hit, and it *will* detonate the missile. This would allow a harder-to-shoot-down delivery system.

Though yes, it would be stupidly expensive.

[Shark_Force]

that's just a smart missile. i mean, you're dressing it up a lot, but that whole thing you're describing is a smart missile. you have a payload, a delivery system (which is slower than most missiles i suspect), and a smart system to control it. if it is cheaper to take apart multiple missiles, a hoverbike, and an robot with an AI, and then strap them all together than it is to just use the multiple missiles in the first place, something is very wrong.

so yeah, just take those missiles, use the missile launcher mines from mercenaries, and don't fire all the missiles in a single volley. the glitter boy will be able to take out 1-2 missiles tops, the rest will hit, there goes the glitter boy.

[HWalsh]

Other methods would also be to place your base in a mountainous area. Places where boom guns could cause issues or the ground beneath the GBs could collapse.

[Axelmania]

Helicarrier 3 miles up would be ideal solution there.

Maybe thread on beating the new flying GB in Triax 2 ?

[ShadowLogan]

The Smart Missile can be shot down more easily. The problem with using missiles vs a Boom Gun is the Boom Gun, with a GB Elite pilot, is usually accurate enough to hit, and it *will* detonate the missile. This would allow a harder-to-shoot-down delivery system.

Though yes, it would be stupidly expensive.

A smart missile isn't going to be more easy to shoot down as they can dodge the incoming attack (+4 in RUE). Drones exist that are probably cheaper than the hodge podge creation you are going with. Given the expense of your system (over 200k I suspect), you could purchase multiple straight drones or smart missiles (non-nuclear LRMs are cheaper than the RUE/MB commercial hovercycle).

[Marcethus]

Not sure of their cost but in Merc book there are the Naruni Drones controlled by the Combat pod that might be cheaper than all the work to mod a hovercycle.

[Shark_Force]

Not sure of their cost but in Merc book there are the Naruni Drones controlled by the Combat pod that might be cheaper than all the work to mod a hovercycle.

you don't need a combat drone.

his entire concept starts with taking multiple missile warheads and then doing something with them.

which is just silly. just skip all the steps in between. ultimately, you're just making a crappy missile from parts of other things which include actual missiles that travel much faster, have insane range, and do the same thing.

so if you start off with enough missiles to blow up a glitter boy... just shoot them at the glitter boy, but not in a single volley. and then ride off with your hoverbike and naruni labour bot that you didn't have to cannibalize because you just did the sensible thing instead of overcomplicating the process.

[Blue_Lion]

If you have multiple launch platforms of missiles say 3 the GB he is going to get hit for less.


Looking at the hover bike break down. Most bikes are around 100K the NG light labor drone is 2 million in my book pluss 40K for general labor to get pilot hover craft. Then add in the cost of the missiles and you probally pushing 3 million per hover bike, that the GB can shoot apart before it reaches him or set off the bombs. Not to mention armoring the bike.

If I recall you can only increase the armor of a vehicle by 30% base. so you would need a cheep bike with 100 MDC to even be able to make it take 1 shot. Most hover bikes have less than 100 MDC.(Think the range of MD for hover bikes is some where around 75MD) So odds are you will not survive 1 shot from the boom gun.

significaly adding armor to enclose the pilot would likely slow the cycle down giving the GB more time to shoot it down.

A slower ground craft is easer to stop than standard missiles by the rules you always have 1-2 shots against this I can see the GB getting 3+ shots with even 2 hits there is no way that a cycle will reach the GB. Juicer uprising tells us you cant dodge and move forward at the same time.

[ShadowLogan]

Not sure of their cost but in Merc book there are the Naruni Drones controlled by the Combat pod that might be cheaper than all the work to mod a hovercycle.

you don't need a combat drone.

his entire concept starts with taking multiple missile warheads and then doing something with them.

which is just silly. just skip all the steps in between. ultimately, you're just making a crappy missile from parts of other things which include actual missiles that travel much faster, have insane range, and do the same thing.

so if you start off with enough missiles to blow up a glitter boy... just shoot them at the glitter boy, but not in a single volley. and then ride off with your hoverbike and naruni labour bot that you didn't have to cannibalize because you just did the sensible thing instead of overcomplicating the process.

Actually what HWalsh is suggesting is basically a convoluted smart missile or Naruni combat Drone. Marcethus is right that the cost of Naruni Destructo-Drone (Mercenaries, cost is 250k) is cheaper (other Drone types not so much) than HWalsh's setup (a drone 'bot alone is millions), but a basic Smart missile is cheaper still. Naruni's Thunderstorm family (Naruni Wave 2, cost is ~50k) are cheaper than the Destrocto-Drone, but may still be more expensive than a smart missile (depending on type, IIRC cheapest is an MRM at ~20k).

You could save some money in HWaslh's setup by substituting in a Jetpack for a hoverbike, but you don't save enough to make it a cost effective solution give the high cost of the drone 'bot.