Anti-Glitterboy Measures That Work

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Also, remember that large portions of the Earth were rifted out and replaced (the Rocky Mountains, in particular, are stated as being "not the same ones that were there before") so resources aren't necessarily that scarce.

Nor do we really need a lot of the rare minerals. We're finding alternatives all the time (carbon nano-scale circuitry, for instance).

FWIW:

The "Dog boys on every corner" is alluded to in Lone Star, CS War Campaign, and a little in RUE. It's not precisely stated "on every corner" but it is clearly "the cities are heavily patrolled" and Dog Boys are allowed to roam at will when off-duty and sniff out trouble. In fact, refusing to cooperate with a Dog Boy means that in just a few minutes an entire Dog Pack shows up with a Psi-Stalker and they get all up in your business.

The "CS has ways of hiding from scrying" appears to only apply to the Black Vault. There are intimations of it elsewhere, but nothing Concrete that i could find.

Then again, half of these kinds of passages are hidden in books you wouldnt even think theyd be in.

[Daniel Stoker]

Also, remember that large portions of the Earth were rifted out and replaced (the Rocky Mountains, in particular, are stated as being "not the same ones that were there before") so resources aren't necessarily that scarce.

That's totally one of the theories I've heard mentioned before but it's also just that a theory as unless I'm missing it I don't think it's ever actually been addressed in any of the books. Personally I always liked the idea that Rifts Earth is actually a gestalt Earth of a bunch of different Earths that can fused into one with the coming of the Rifts which explains some of the HU references as well as Nightbane.


Daniel Stoker

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Also, remember that large portions of the Earth were rifted out and replaced (the Rocky Mountains, in particular, are stated as being "not the same ones that were there before") so resources aren't necessarily that scarce.

That's totally one of the theories I've heard mentioned before but it's also just that a theory as unless I'm missing it I don't think it's ever actually been addressed in any of the books. Personally I always liked the idea that Rifts Earth is actually a gestalt Earth of a bunch of different Earths that can fused into one with the coming of the Rifts which explains some of the HU references as well as Nightbane.


Daniel Stoker

Ill have to check when i get home, but im pretty sure its outright stated by Erin Tarn in a book. Maybe RUE.

[Daniel Stoker]

Sorry, I don't think I was clear, I didn't mean the Rockies I meant resources.


Daniel Stoker

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Ahh, gotcha.

Well, if the mountains were outright replaced, the resources that are in them came with them. After all, the Colorado Baronies are heavy in Silver.. which in modern day we've all mined out.

The passage in question is from RUE pg 26:

I have reason to believe these are not the same mountains that existed before the Great Cataclysm, for many are the account sof the mountains exploding or crumbling to dust to mark the advent of the Cataclysm. Furthermore, pre-Rifts geological descriptions differ greatly from the mountains of today, suggesting the Barrier Wall is a much more recent formation.

[Daniel Stoker]

Ahh, gotcha.

Well, if the mountains were outright replaced, the resources that are in them came with them. After all, the Colorado Baronies are heavy in Silver.. which in modern day we've all mined out.

The passage in question is from RUE pg 26:

I have reason to believe these are not the same mountains that existed before the Great Cataclysm, for many are the account sof the mountains exploding or crumbling to dust to mark the advent of the Cataclysm. Furthermore, pre-Rifts geological descriptions differ greatly from the mountains of today, suggesting the Barrier Wall is a much more recent formation.

Replaced by what though and does that count or not for other resources in other parts of the country? And that's assuming they weren't Rifted in mostly mined out from where ever they did come from. I think that last assumption is a stretch, but new resources really aren't something I remember Kevin talking about in any of the books.


Daniel Stoker

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Ahh, gotcha.

Well, if the mountains were outright replaced, the resources that are in them came with them. After all, the Colorado Baronies are heavy in Silver.. which in modern day we've all mined out.

The passage in question is from RUE pg 26:

I have reason to believe these are not the same mountains that existed before the Great Cataclysm, for many are the account sof the mountains exploding or crumbling to dust to mark the advent of the Cataclysm. Furthermore, pre-Rifts geological descriptions differ greatly from the mountains of today, suggesting the Barrier Wall is a much more recent formation.

Replaced by what though and does that count or not for other resources in other parts of the country? And that's assuming they weren't Rifted in mostly mined out from where ever they did come from. I think that last assumption is a stretch, but new resources really aren't something I remember Kevin talking about in any of the books.


Daniel Stoker

Resources are almost never mentioned at all. But D-shifting is a thing all over the place, the Rockies being replaced is just an extreme example.

Also, a lot of the high-tech stuff doesn't use metal at all - most armors are ceramic composites, for instance. Clay is plentiful just about everywhere.

[Killer Cyborg]

after that most of the deposits of things like iron, nickel and platinum group metals are the remains of things like meteors crashing into the earth and leaving their remnants on the surface, but what about all the micro meteors and stuff burned off as that meteor came crashing down through the atmosphere... it scatters as dust all over the place. so yes North America has rare earths its just that most of the 1-2 tons (for example) is scattered throughout a million square mile area, vs having a 10 ton lump of it spreadout in 100 acres

I think you'd have an easier time getting that from sea water like I they did in what I think was a Clarke novel, but you're right that is a possibility if a confusingly hard one to figure out how to tap.


Daniel Stoker

Nanites.

[Shark_Force]

the rockies changing could about as easily be explained by massive tectonic shifts, i would think. or all those earthquakes and volcanoes that were supposed to be happening during the rifts.

[Killer Cyborg]

The main problems with the "the CS doesn't have the resources to build so many SAMAS" bit are as follows:
1. We don't know what it takes to build a single SAMAS.
2. We don't know what resources were left in America after the Golden Age.

So it seems like something of a random guess more than a logical claim.

[Axelmania]

In addition to short range missiles on page one, things from South America 2 could help if they made it to North America:

Page 82 has BRL-3 rocket launcher. No indication of what Arkhon ammo costs though and you don't get the added range with mini missiles.

Page 115 the H-11A Howitzer is nearly the range of the boom gun but can attack through indirect fire, meaning if you have a scout giving position that you could attack when there is a hill between you so the GB has no line of sight and would need to shoot wild through terrain.

I think one of the Merc books also has other long ranged artillery better than the boom gun, and unlike missiles that can't be shot down.

Curious if we could get mini missiles better range. Psi-Techs can give a launcher +10% and level 16 Gizmoteer could give +80% to missiles but that still only gives us 198% range, still below 2 miles. Anyone remember other ways to enhance tech weapon ranges?

[The Beast]

I think one of the Merc books also has other long ranged artillery better than the boom gun, and unlike missiles that can't be shot down.

The US Army begs to differ.

[ShadowLogan]

In addition to short range missiles on page one, things from South America 2 could help if they made it to North America:

Page 82 has BRL-3 rocket launcher. No indication of what Arkhon ammo costs though and you don't get the added range with mini missiles.

Page 115 the H-11A Howitzer is nearly the range of the boom gun but can attack through indirect fire, meaning if you have a scout giving position that you could attack when there is a hill between you so the GB has no line of sight and would need to shoot wild through terrain.

I think one of the Merc books also has other long ranged artillery better than the boom gun, and unlike missiles that can't be shot down.

Curious if we could get mini missiles better range. Psi-Techs can give a launcher +10% and level 16 Gizmoteer could give +80% to missiles but that still only gives us 198% range, still below 2 miles. Anyone remember other ways to enhance tech weapon ranges?

The BRL-2 system doesn't hit as hard as a Boomgun, but it does have a 2 mile range and if its bursts (6 rounds) you've essentially got a boomgun (maybe a bit better) in Anti-Armor mode. They do list the cost of the round though and I do believe a GB round is far cheaper.

Merc Ops does have artillery in it from GAW (Motars and Howitzer types on pg 125-127), and some of the GAW systems put the GB to shame in terms of range. Merc Ops does note that they have mobility issues, though I don't see how they can be any worse than the GB, in terms of defensive and offensive roles.

If you want to make mini-missiles more potent there are options, most of which are more house rule I think:
-house rule "ballistic" fire options (this gives the missiles a glide phase)
-you could have someone do a class based enhancement as you suggest (might as well use the CS's EOD specialist to enhance the explosives, might even be able to use it to "enhance" the range/speed to since the missiles engines are controlled explosions)
-use TWdry to enhance the range (Teleport: Lesser, Mystic Portal, etc) and or other destructive features of said missile
-use a Railgun (or similar) system to give the missile a boost at launch (sort of a high powered version of SA1's Rocketgun), though I don't think there are any canon examples
-use a multi-stage rocket (not really addressed in canon AFAIK, but it should be doable)
-house rule the platforms speed to increase the range of the weapon (as common sense)
-skip "mini" and just go straight to Short Range
-replace the propulsion system with something more exotic (ex K-Hex) or complex (instead of a the likely solid fuel motor put in a different rocket engine type, or disposable air breathing engine)

And The Beast is correct, in real life systems exist to counter artillery. Now it is true that by the rules you can't, though if you treat artillery under the missile rules, you could shoot them down.

[Shark_Force]

i still say the simplest method to dealing with glitter boy range is to just ambush them. just because the gun can shoot 2 miles doesn't mean the pilot will consistently detect you at 2 miles. most non-laser energy rifles have 1500+ foot range, and it is pretty danged easy to hide from someone when you're 1500+ feet away.

[The Beast]

And The Beast is correct, in real life systems exist to counter artillery. Now it is true that by the rules you can't, though if you treat artillery under the missile rules, you could shoot them down.

There's also a lack of rules in Palladium governing indirect fire, which something something Dark Side.

[Killer Cyborg]

i still say the simplest method to dealing with glitter boy range is to just ambush them. just because the gun can shoot 2 miles doesn't mean the pilot will consistently detect you at 2 miles. most non-laser energy rifles have 1500+ foot range, and it is pretty danged easy to hide from someone when you're 1500+ feet away.

Back with the original burst/spray rules, this was the way we did it.
A JA-11 could crank out 3d6x10 MD on a full-clip burst, for an average of 105 MD. Get 8 guys together in an ambush, and you could probably take down the GB before he had a chance to fire.
Granted, it took "all attacks" for the melee round to inflict that kind of damage, but for most characters starting out, that was still just 2 attacks.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

And The Beast is correct, in real life systems exist to counter artillery. Now it is true that by the rules you can't, though if you treat artillery under the missile rules, you could shoot them down.

There's also a lack of rules in Palladium governing indirect fire, which something something Dark Side.

There are actually some indirect fire rules in the Quebecois GB section (the Taurus? Forget which one has the two giant mortars); im not sure id use them, honestly.

I dont see the point in overcomplicating things, and Palldium's (particularly Rifts) system is massively over-complicated right now, with dozens of penalties, bonuses, and modifiers to every shot that wildly imbalance the game and make figuring out bonuses for one attack a significantly harder than it needs to be (the updated/new Cyber-Jedi-Knight is the epitome of this stupidity, with modifiers that modify modifiers but only against a single opponent (sometimes) but not all the time).

Follow KISS - do you have coordinates to fire on? Roll to attack, with your bonuses. Dont? Shooting Wild. And were done. Thats as complicated as it needs to be.

[Shark_Force]

i still say the simplest method to dealing with glitter boy range is to just ambush them. just because the gun can shoot 2 miles doesn't mean the pilot will consistently detect you at 2 miles. most non-laser energy rifles have 1500+ foot range, and it is pretty danged easy to hide from someone when you're 1500+ feet away.

Back with the original burst/spray rules, this was the way we did it.
A JA-11 could crank out 3d6x10 MD on a full-clip burst, for an average of 105 MD. Get 8 guys together in an ambush, and you could probably take down the GB before he had a chance to fire.
Granted, it took "all attacks" for the melee round to inflict that kind of damage, but for most characters starting out, that was still just 2 attacks.

you don't have quite that much burst these days, but you could probably take the glitter boy out in a 2-3 actions with 8 attackers ambushing it if they really unload.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

i still say the simplest method to dealing with glitter boy range is to just ambush them. just because the gun can shoot 2 miles doesn't mean the pilot will consistently detect you at 2 miles. most non-laser energy rifles have 1500+ foot range, and it is pretty danged easy to hide from someone when you're 1500+ feet away.

This too. If theres any kind of terrain, hes not going to pick you up on snesors unless he gets wildly lucky or someone silhoutes thmselves against the sky.

My Wolfen TW (the closest thing i have to a 'current' character) carries an NG-P9 heavy particle beam rifle (in games advanced enough down the timeline) or the old NG-P7 (in other games) just for anti-armor punch. (He'd carry an NG-E4a Plasma Canon or C-29 too, for the heavier damage, but you cant exactly carry 3+ rifles around, and Particle Beams seemed a more well rounded choice, because becoming Impervious to Plasma is easier than P-Beams by a wide margin... And We wont talk about the busted-as-hell Magefire TW P-Beam Rifle in Merc Ops....)

Get within ~1000 feet and behind some terrain (even if it is just the lip of a small hill or a big stand of trees) and a few guys with anti-armor weapons can blow the gun off in a surprise round.. Particularly if they are carrying C-29's or an NG-E4A.

[Zer0 Kay]

i still say the simplest method to dealing with glitter boy range is to just ambush them. just because the gun can shoot 2 miles doesn't mean the pilot will consistently detect you at 2 miles. most non-laser energy rifles have 1500+ foot range, and it is pretty danged easy to hide from someone when you're 1500+ feet away.

This too. If theres any kind of terrain, hes not going to pick you up on snesors unless he gets wildly lucky or someone silhoutes thmselves against the sky.

My Wolfen TW (the closest thing i have to a 'current' character) carries an NG-P9 heavy particle beam rifle (in games advanced enough down the timeline) or the old NG-P7 (in other games) just for anti-armor punch. (He'd carry an NG-E4a Plasma Canon or C-29 too, for the heavier damage, but you cant exactly carry 3+ rifles around, and Particle Beams seemed a more well rounded choice, because becoming Impervious to Plasma is easier than P-Beams by a wide margin... And We wont talk about the busted-as-hell Magefire TW P-Beam Rifle in Merc Ops....)

Get within ~1000 feet and behind some terrain (even if it is just the lip of a small hill or a big stand of trees) and a few guys with anti-armor weapons can blow the gun off in a surprise round.. Particularly if they are carrying C-29's or an NG-E4A.

Why are all your opponents so one dimensional?
And pray the GB is a lone pilot and not the scout for a GB unit. Is dumb enough not to use drones in hilly terrain and has never heard of using IR or thermals on its own suit or from the drones to contrast against trees or buildings.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

i still say the simplest method to dealing with glitter boy range is to just ambush them. just because the gun can shoot 2 miles doesn't mean the pilot will consistently detect you at 2 miles. most non-laser energy rifles have 1500+ foot range, and it is pretty danged easy to hide from someone when you're 1500+ feet away.

This too. If theres any kind of terrain, hes not going to pick you up on snesors unless he gets wildly lucky or someone silhoutes thmselves against the sky.

My Wolfen TW (the closest thing i have to a 'current' character) carries an NG-P9 heavy particle beam rifle (in games advanced enough down the timeline) or the old NG-P7 (in other games) just for anti-armor punch. (He'd carry an NG-E4a Plasma Canon or C-29 too, for the heavier damage, but you cant exactly carry 3+ rifles around, and Particle Beams seemed a more well rounded choice, because becoming Impervious to Plasma is easier than P-Beams by a wide margin... And We wont talk about the busted-as-hell Magefire TW P-Beam Rifle in Merc Ops....)

Get within ~1000 feet and behind some terrain (even if it is just the lip of a small hill or a big stand of trees) and a few guys with anti-armor weapons can blow the gun off in a surprise round.. Particularly if they are carrying C-29's or an NG-E4A.

Why are all your opponents so one dimensional?

Why are all yours over-prepared and using things that dont exist?

And pray the GB is a lone pilot and not the scout for a GB unit.

Uh... why? If im behind the cusp of a hill or in any kind of dense vegetation, im not in any danger from far-off GBs. They cant see me. And ive now neutered their scout with my 5-8 man infantry squad. Not that I intend to be going up against, say, FQ any time soon. And its not exactly like a lot of other guys field squads or platoons of GBs.

Is dumb enough not to use drones

Non-existent drones. Unless you've got a page number? Otherwise, i'd think they'd be pretty ubiquitous. EVERYONE would be using them because not using them would be retarded.

in hilly terrain and has never heard of using IR or thermals

Both useless during the day. A key part of battle: do not pit your weaknesses against their strengths. Doesn't have to be hilly, though, even slightly bumpy terrain that can be hunkered behind, or med-heavy forest, or tall grass, even. It's not like, even at night, you walk around with Thermal Imaging on (IR, sure) - that's a super-great way to get blinded. The IR, btw, only works out the vision limit of the pilot (i can not find, anywhere, on any PA, that basic sight has a range beyond the mark 1 eyeball. (Looked in NG1&2, CWC, RUE, RMB, about to check FQ... yeahnope) so good luck depending on that. Also, guys in EBA probably don't give off a lot of extra heat. They are temperature controlled and sealed, and insulated up to 400c. Now, once you open fire with Plasma Cannon and Particle Beams... yeah, light up like christmas trees.

on its own suit or from the drones to contrast against trees or buildings.

More imaginary drones.

[Axelmania]

[quote="ShadowLogan"
The BRL-2 system doesn't hit as hard as a Boomgun, but it does have a 2 mile range and if its bursts (6 rounds) you've essentially got a boomgun (maybe a bit better) in Anti-Armor mode. They do list the cost of the round though and I do believe a GB round is far cheaper.[/quote]
The expensive ammo is the smart bombs, 70% of BM-2 ammo is dumb mortar rounds which I do t think were given a cost.

Boom gun rounds were ridiculously underpriced for their damage in ultimate compared to other rail guns. I guess the gun does all the work.

[Blue_Lion]

Drones can be found in Rifts merc PG 126 - 128.
In addition triax and black market sell robots that can serve as drones even if they do not have them listed as drones. I think NG sells robots that can serve as drones but to lazy to look it up. ( It is an error to call some out on imaginary drones when they have been on the books for decades )
Heck a skelabot can serve as a drone and you want a UAV give it a jet pack and program it to fly it. Robots in rifts are better than drones because they can send back images without some one piloting them remotely and still serve the same function on the battle field.

Although why the GB is traveling alone seams a bit odd. Even if not part of a military unit is should be with a group at least equal of at least 4 people total if not as many or more than your squad.

[ShadowLogan]

Non-existent drones. Unless you've got a page number? Otherwise, i'd think they'd be pretty ubiquitous. EVERYONE would be using them because not using them would be retarded.

Define "drone" in this context.

Naruni (Mercenaries, Wave2), Triax (WB5, WB31), Horune (WB7), Kittani (WB2), Coalition (SB1o, CWC, RUE, SB4), Northern Gun (SB1o), Archie-3 (SB1o), Japan (WB8), Mindwerks (SB3) and the Mechanoids (SB2) all have examples of what could be considered drones as defined in SB1's Robot RCC (pg95 SB1o don't have SB1r) and that's off the top of my head.

Even SB1o says "Robot Drones or Simple Intelligences are the next most common bots in the world." (pg95 SB1o) FYI Robot Accessory Units are the most common per the same source (pg94).

So Drones exist and have existed in the setting for a very long time. Not everyone is portrayed as using them and they haven't "taken off" in uses like in the real world, but that could be for any number of reasons.

(i can not find, anywhere, on any PA, that basic sight has a range beyond the mark 1 eyeball.

Then you didn't look hard enough because the Samas and Glitterboy both have additional sensors that include non-visible light spectrum optics (IR, UV, Thermal) and telescopic systems mentioned at the end of their entries under the heading of "Sensor Systems of Note" that is bolded (RMB pg194, 223 OR RUE pg73 for the GB, RUE drops it from the Sam). Addition examples at least two Kittani suits (in WB2), Merc Ops has 3 (2 Chipwell pg70-3 and Titan Robotics pg86) and SB1o has 3 Triax PA also. I stopped there, but I doubt that's all of them.

Boom gun rounds were ridiculously underpriced for their damage in ultimate compared to other rail guns. I guess the gun does all the work.

With regard to railguns, yes the gun does all the work regardless of if its a BG or CR-40 (the same goes for I-Beams, or Contra-gravity variants). Ammunition is mechanically simple, so there isn't much reason for the ammo to be expensive unless you have a material or labor shortage or high demand in an area.

Actually BG rounds aren't all that more devastating than some railguns when you compensate for the fact that most railguns fire like machineguns in a burst, but typically ~75% of those rounds miss. If we compensate for that, and adjust the BG to read like a burst fire:
-the BG's 200 sub-elements work out to doing less than 1MD per round (which is rather pathetic when you consider most machinegun-type RGs do a full die of damage) given it does 3d6x10
-the CR-40 would like 4d4x10 for the burst (pretty close to a BG)
-NG-202 on the Samson PA or the CR-40 on the Mk-V APC would be like 6d6x10
-the Spider Skull Walker's C-100 would look like 16d4x10
-the DHT's C-200DH would be 10d4x10.

[The Beast]

in hilly terrain and has never heard of using IR or thermals

Both useless during the day...

http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/blog/debunking-the-myths-of-thermal-imaging

Myths

Thermal imagers can’t be used during the day!

There is a common myth that thermal imagers are not effective during daytime hours. I believe this myth is largely the result of experiences with night vision devices such as light intensifiers a.k.a. NVGs (Night Vision Goggles). Light intensifiers do just what they say, they intensify light which make them useful at night but useless during the day. In fact, many NVG will be permanently useless if an attempt is made to use them during the day without special testing filters that help block light. Thermal imagers on the other hand, don’t use light to produce images, they use heat and can easily discern between the faintest of temperature differences. So during the day thermal imagers offer the same benefits and there is no risk of damage.

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/115958/can-an-ir-camera-be-used-in-broad-daylight

Can an IR camera be used in broad daylight?

I am wondering if it is at all possible to have an IR camera that can be faithfully used in broad daylight. I have already seen this question here, but I am looking to understand if a full blown camera can even have this capability.

What I would like, is to be able to make out cars (that are on), and humans, against a background using an IR camera in broad daylight. Is that even possible? I would think so, but I am not sure of the physics/electronics constraints in this regard. Thank you...

Answers

It sounds like you are talking about Thermal Infrared, 10um - 14 um wavelength which corresponds to a black body temperature of 300 K. This is what is typically used to image and detect the body heat of mammals. The detector here are either MCT (Mercury Cadmium Telluride) cooled detectors or Bolometer based.

The answer is yes, the ambient visible light levels only affect the image in so much as there might be differential heating of exposed surfaces and those will appear hotter (which appears brighter).

In military systems for thermal targeting they use InGaAs detectors (3um - 5um) which corresponds to higher temperatures from exhaust plumes etc. But again operation in daylight is not an issue...

[J_cobbers]

Couple of points on this thread.
1) Ambushes definitely, and overwhelming numbers if at all possible. If going the tech route, Mini Missiles or short range missiles fired in large volleys and from multiple attackers, hidden by some kind of thermal camouflage before springing an attack.

2) Has anyone thought about teleporting in a character with the super psionic power Telemechanical Mental Operation power? Get them within 20ft (if level 1) and bam, they can takeover the power armor, or with Telemechanical Paralysis shut it down. I would read teh Mental Operation as to allow the PPC to be able to open up the pilot compartment and then you have a very exposed GB Pilot who can't get the power armor to do what he wants anymore.

3) As to the prior discussions on Teleportation lessor and CoA: the mage, if having the means to see, or know exactly where the GB's Boom gun is to teleport the fusion blocks accurately will also have to be touching said fusion blocks. In reading the entry for both CoA and Teleportation lessor, the teleportation spell transfers the objects that the mage is touching, and I would strictly interpret that under RAW, to mean only the objects the mage touches, up to the 50lb weight limit. I would also assume that the COA is 1) an object for the purpose of the Teleport spell based on the wording of the COA spell that specifically says it creates a "carpet" and not just and area of effect; and 2) the COA itself is without weight, as it is a magical construct and there is nothing saying otherwise.

So if only touching the COA, the fusion blocks remain behind, if only touching the blocks the COA remains behind. Not that this is hard to over come. Also I would interpret by touching both the COA and the Blocks that the entire carpet of magic stickiness follows with, so it basically disappears from where the mage is and falls onto the GB with the fusion blocks, and depending how the mage positioned the carpet and the blocks (oh say put the blocks dead center of the 200 sq ft carpet) now the GB is not only likely to have no more boom gun, but also be caught in the COA per normal effect of the spell, and IIRC aren't there some knockdown rules for explosions which may apply, putting the GB magically stuck on the ground and possibly more vulnerable to follow up attacks?

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

You can resize the carpet to be exactly as big or small as needed, up to the 200sq ft.

I wouldnt use a full size carpet for this job.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

and IIRC aren't there some knockdown rules for explosions which may apply, putting the GB magically stuck on the ground and possibly more vulnerable to follow up attacks?

Really depends on the GM, and if Explosions damage/affect all parts of a PA caught in the explosion.

I wouldn't bother with overcomplicating the issue, as just being stuck in the CoA pretty much screw him.

[Shark_Force]

for the telemechanic powers, technically the rules allow you to astral project nearby and then use the power since it does not require physical contact.

of course, it is entirely possible that your GM isn't happy with that rule and will change it.

[J_cobbers]

for the telemechanic powers, technically the rules allow you to astral project nearby and then use the power since it does not require physical contact.

of course, it is entirely possible that your GM isn't happy with that rule and will change it.

Good point, astral projection is possibly a good way to ambush the GB (or any other PA, Robot or other Armored Vehicle threat) depending on the GM's interpretation. However, I see little in a RAW context that would rule against allowing the use of the various telemechanical powers because they do not absolutely require touch; their range is phrased as touch OR X feet so really you just close proximity. Astral Projection in RUE expressly states that a character on the material plane can use any of their psychic powers that do not require physical contact. It then goes on to say that generally (but note, not specifically) that they can only effect the physical world through Sensitive Psychic powers and gives the list of "Telepathy, Clairvoyance, Empathy etc." Since Telemechanic powers are something like telepathy and clairvoyance for machines, I would justify them as falling into that "etc" category as the meet all the other requirements.

Of course adding astral projection means the character is vulnerable in other ways, but the ability to move one's astral body at mach 1 is pretty helpful for the get out and back to your body situations.

You can resize the carpet to be exactly as big or small as needed, up to the 200sq ft.

I wouldnt use a full size carpet for this job.

Fair enough, where as I would make it full sized, just as insurance against the GB having other weapons, or the boomgun possibly surviving the fusion blocks (unlikely but you could roll all 1s for each of the 3 4d6x10 fusion blocks). When I have played a Glitterboy pilot, I always carried a back up Borg sized heavy weapon and Vibro Sword, specifically because I appreciated that the Boom Gun isn't perfect for every situation. Heck even tanks have back up weapons like .50 cal M2 machine guns. And not withstanding that, a GB can be formidable in H2H (maxes out at 13 attacks with boxing, H2H MA and RCE for GBs at level 14) and if the goal is to fully take out the GB, then you may need back up attackers after the boomgun is down.

Really depends on the GM, and if Explosions damage/affect all parts of a PA caught in the explosion.

I wouldn't bother with overcomplicating the issue, as just being stuck in the CoA pretty much screw him.

Indeed it would both depend on the GM and the COA would screw him but only for as long as it lasts. I found the (optional) knock down charts on pg 35 of the GMG, the fusion blocks would do at the least 120 MD, and have a 60% chance of a knocking him down, up to 80% at 151 MD and 100% at 201 MD or more not only is a bot or borg or big supernatural creature knocked down but stunned, and loses all attacks. Soooooo, 120 minimum and 720 max, and a 420 average, Mega damage on those fusion blocks give a pretty good chance the GB will be down for a least one melee, and no boomgun. add the COA to the mix and he could potentially be stuck there quite awhile even with the saving throw.

Since the topic is tatics that would work, yeah COA + high damage attack knocking down the GB is a potentially a devastating combo, and probably effective against any other large mechanical or monstrous foe who has no means to cancel the COA.

I would also say for direct combat with a GB, the 9th level spell, Speed of Snail would be very useful for reducing the number of attacks and speed of the GB by 1/3. The spell states works against robots and vehicles as well as people.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Fair enough, where as I would make it full sized, just as insurance against the GB having other weapons, or the boomgun possibly surviving the fusion blocks (unlikely but you could roll all 1s for each of the 3 4d6x10 fusion blocks). When I have played a Glitterboy pilot, I always carried a back up Borg sized heavy weapon and Vibro Sword, specifically because I appreciated that the Boom Gun isn't perfect for every situation. Heck even tanks have back up weapons like .50 cal M2 machine guns.

technically even the Borg sized weapons you couldn't use (there really aren't "borg sized weapons", per se, merely man-sized weapons that are too heavy for people with low strength to use, and therefore they are commonly given to Borgs and Juicers.) because the hands are too big (called out right in the description). However, Triax has a number of PA and Robot-sized sidearms (and even issues the TX-50 to their T-550 GB standard), NG started making a bunch, and the Coalition has some you can appropriate too (Particle Beam and Missile Rifles), so the idea of carrying a backup is solid, just not the ones you were originally thinking. And finding a place to actually carry it might be an issue, without fouling up the truster system on the back). A big Vibro sword, though, could be hung at the waist no problem.

Honestly, in a "modern" era game (109PA), NG has a great shoulder-mounted heavy particle beam that would go great on the non-Boomgun shoulder.

And not withstanding that, a GB can be formidable in H2H (maxes out at 13 attacks with boxing, H2H MA and RCE for GBs at level 14) and if the goal is to fully take out the GB, then you may need back up attackers after the boomgun is down.

I can actually handily beat that at 14th level as a Techno-Wizard. (Without doing the math, i think he might have... 2 or 3 more attacks). No joke. And ill hit about twice as hard in melee (or more) and have 750 MDC, + hes -9 to hit me and gains no bonuses from his sensors. And i have a passive HF of 16 that he has to save against every round.

Max level comparisons are silly, is what im trying to get at. But yes, just because his Boom Gun is gone, doesn't mean hes useless (which i gather was your original point).

Indeed it would both depend on the GM and the COA would screw him but only for as long as it lasts. I found the (optional) knock down charts on pg 35 of the GMG, the fusion blocks would do at the least 120 MD, and have a 60% chance of a knocking him down, up to 80% at 151 MD and 100% at 201 MD or more not only is a bot or borg or big supernatural creature knocked down but stunned, and loses all attacks. Soooooo, 120 minimum and 720 max, and a 420 average, Mega damage on those fusion blocks give a pretty good chance the GB will be down for a least one melee, and no boomgun. add the COA to the mix and he could potentially be stuck there quite awhile even with the saving throw.

Since the topic is tatics that would work, yeah COA + high damage attack knocking down the GB is a potentially a devastating combo, and probably effective against any other large mechanical or monstrous foe who has no means to cancel the COA.

I would also say for direct combat with a GB, the 9th level spell, Speed of Snail would be very useful for reducing the number of attacks and speed of the GB by 1/3. The spell states works against robots and vehicles as well as people.

Personally, Fusion Blocks always struck me as shaped charges with limited blast radii. I wouldn't have them damage the GB itself, if it were me making the call.

[J_cobbers]

Fair enough, where as I would make it full sized, just as insurance against the GB having other weapons, or the boomgun possibly surviving the fusion blocks (unlikely but you could roll all 1s for each of the 3 4d6x10 fusion blocks). When I have played a Glitterboy pilot, I always carried a back up Borg sized heavy weapon and Vibro Sword, specifically because I appreciated that the Boom Gun isn't perfect for every situation. Heck even tanks have back up weapons like .50 cal M2 machine guns.

technically even the Borg sized weapons you couldn't use (there really aren't "borg sized weapons", per se, merely man-sized weapons that are too heavy for people with low strength to use, and therefore they are commonly given to Borgs and Juicers.) because the hands are too big (called out right in the description). However, Triax has a number of PA and Robot-sized sidearms (and even issues the TX-50 to their T-550 GB standard), NG started making a bunch, and the Coalition has some you can appropriate too (Particle Beam and Missile Rifles), so the idea of carrying a backup is solid, just not the ones you were originally thinking. And finding a place to actually carry it might be an issue, without fouling up the truster system on the back). A big Vibro sword, though, could be hung at the waist no problem.

Honestly, in a "modern" era game (109PA), NG has a great shoulder-mounted heavy particle beam that would go great on the non-Boomgun shoulder.

Admittedly the last time I played a BG was under the RMB, and I don't know how much attention we paid to the size of the guns, but essentially I meant a larger weapons like the handheld Triax PA weapons.

And not withstanding that, a GB can be formidable in H2H (maxes out at 13 attacks with boxing, H2H MA and RCE for GBs at level 14) and if the goal is to fully take out the GB, then you may need back up attackers after the boomgun is down.

I can actually handily beat that at 14th level as a Techno-Wizard. (Without doing the math, i think he might have... 2 or 3 more attacks). No joke. And ill hit about twice as hard in melee (or more) and have 750 MDC, + hes -9 to hit me and gains no bonuses from his sensors. And i have a passive HF of 16 that he has to save against every round.

Max level comparisons are silly, is what im trying to get at. But yes, just because his Boom Gun is gone, doesn't mean hes useless (which i gather was your original point).

Exactly my point. A GB does tend to be front heavy in terms of power at lower levels (hey I just got a walking tank at 1st level woooo!). Though I think I forgot the 2 automatic existing attacks in my math, but none the less I have no doubt that your TW can school the 14th level GB with smart application of TW weapons and equipment creation.

Indeed it would both depend on the GM and the COA would screw him but only for as long as it lasts. I found the (optional) knock down charts on pg 35 of the GMG, the fusion blocks would do at the least 120 MD, and have a 60% chance of a knocking him down, up to 80% at 151 MD and 100% at 201 MD or more not only is a bot or borg or big supernatural creature knocked down but stunned, and loses all attacks. Soooooo, 120 minimum and 720 max, and a 420 average, Mega damage on those fusion blocks give a pretty good chance the GB will be down for a least one melee, and no boomgun. add the COA to the mix and he could potentially be stuck there quite awhile even with the saving throw.

Since the topic is tatics that would work, yeah COA + high damage attack knocking down the GB is a potentially a devastating combo, and probably effective against any other large mechanical or monstrous foe who has no means to cancel the COA.

I would also say for direct combat with a GB, the 9th level spell, Speed of Snail would be very useful for reducing the number of attacks and speed of the GB by 1/3. The spell states works against robots and vehicles as well as people.

Personally, Fusion Blocks always struck me as shaped charges with limited blast radii. I wouldn't have them damage the GB itself, if it were me making the call.

Meh, the boomgun is part of the GB, so you can argue that the damage is connected and apply the (again optional) knockdown rules for explosions and impacts. Allowable under the rules, but not binding on the GM under RAW. I see your point as to whether the hit to the boomgun should apply as to the GB itself if playing under that set of rules. If it was me, I would consider it as a hit that subjects the GB to the rule, but hey for anyone else let the GM figure it out.

[Shark_Force]

honestly, for any remotely competent armourer, i would be extremely disappointed if replacing the trigger guard and extending the handle (which should be all that is necessary for anything with larger than human hands to use a gun) was a challenge.

getting more shots per e-clip? sure, that'd be difficult. optimizing the weapon to get some extra range? sure, that's tricky. getting more damage? yeah, that's gonna be hard. any of those things (even at the expense of others) should be difficult because it's going to involve changing the guts of the weapon. extending the grip and trigger guard, though, that should pretty much be child's play (relatively speaking).

[Killer Cyborg]

honestly, for any remotely competent armourer, i would be extremely disappointed if replacing the trigger guard and extending the handle (which should be all that is necessary for anything with larger than human hands to use a gun) was a challenge.

getting more shots per e-clip? sure, that'd be difficult. optimizing the weapon to get some extra range? sure, that's tricky. getting more damage? yeah, that's gonna be hard. any of those things (even at the expense of others) should be difficult because it's going to involve changing the guts of the weapon. extending the grip and trigger guard, though, that should pretty much be child's play (relatively speaking).

Agreed.

[Blue_Lion]

honestly, for any remotely competent armourer, i would be extremely disappointed if replacing the trigger guard and extending the handle (which should be all that is necessary for anything with larger than human hands to use a gun) was a challenge.

getting more shots per e-clip? sure, that'd be difficult. optimizing the weapon to get some extra range? sure, that's tricky. getting more damage? yeah, that's gonna be hard. any of those things (even at the expense of others) should be difficult because it's going to involve changing the guts of the weapon. extending the grip and trigger guard, though, that should pretty much be child's play (relatively speaking).

Agreed.

Umm I would disagree on the second part.
The first part on trigger guard and handle are something I would expect an armorer to be able to do.

The modifications to shots per eclip, range and damage is more align the lines of a weapons engineer.

[ShadowLogan]

honestly, for any remotely competent armourer, i would be extremely disappointed if replacing the trigger guard and extending the handle (which should be all that is necessary for anything with larger than human hands to use a gun) was a challenge.

I can agree to this somewhat. It would depend partly on how much you want to increase the size of the grip/trigger and the over all design of the weapon could put limits on what could actually be done (ex. Triax's Forward Sliding Clip could limit how much bigger the hand could get without more extensive work).

Though I think there are "lower level skills" that have the same effect, but do so by taking a different approach that amounts to using a servo to activate the stock trigger be it mechanical, electrical, and even remote.

[guardiandashi]

I remember an old star wars novel (Han Solo at stars end I think) where chewie tried to use a weapon intended for humans and the trigger guard kept him from pulling the trigger (couldn't get fingers inside the guard...) so he did a field expedient mod, and removed the trigger guard which then allowed him to use the weapon.

I could totally see someone doing the same kind of thing without any significant skills.
swapping a trigger and handgrip from one weapon to another I could see as a simple armorer check, a basic mechanical or weapons engineer check etc.

[Axelmania]

[quote="Blue_Lion".

Hate to break it to you but at the same general height you can not see a GB 5 miles away, the curvature of the earth prevents it as would anything between you and the target. I have expensed with tactical binoculars and depending on what you are looking for 4 to 5 miles is a bit of a stretch often near impossible to find an unknown target smaller than a house. You are confusing max possible range with what is actually possible in field use or practical range.(Size of a target does matter in how far you can see a target)
[/quote]

Terrain could matter too. With same height at start and end, curvature of the earth wouldnt get in the way as much if the ground in between you was not at that height, like staring mountain to mountain or across a Hades Pit.

Then you have the various supernatural means of projecting your sight. Familiars being a good one unless GBs habitually waste ammo blasting every bird in sight.

Second Sight would work if you met the pilot before. Locate would work if you had a photo. Oracle could also work.

Teleport Lesser requiring knowing the location does not require seeing the location as you cast it.

The problem is timing. Something like a Mystic Alarm or Wards: Alarm could help tell you once they enter an area so long as you know it is them if solo. Harder if the GB is part of a group since a scout in their party could set that off.

The disadvantage there is even if you never met the GB you might Second Sight their party member you did meet and still get eyes on them.

A mage could also Astral Project to scout out the Glitter Boy and then quicklynzoom back to body at mach speed and then cast the teleport. A GB would need to be constantly moving around to prevent accuracy from that. If you summoned/controlled an entity they could also do that spotting for you.

[Blue_Lion]

Hate to break it to you but at the same general height you can not see a GB 5 miles away, the curvature of the earth prevents it as would anything between you and the target. I have expensed with tactical binoculars and depending on what you are looking for 4 to 5 miles is a bit of a stretch often near impossible to find an unknown target smaller than a house. You are confusing max possible range with what is actually possible in field use or practical range.(Size of a target does matter in how far you can see a target)

Terrain could matter too. With same height at start and end, curvature of the earth wouldnt get in the way as much if the ground in between you was not at that height, like staring mountain to mountain or across a Hades Pit.

Then you have the various supernatural means of projecting your sight. Familiars being a good one unless GBs habitually waste ammo blasting every bird in sight.

Second Sight would work if you met the pilot before. Locate would work if you had a photo. Oracle could also work.

Teleport Lesser requiring knowing the location does not require seeing the location as you cast it.

The problem is timing. Something like a Mystic Alarm or Wards: Alarm could help tell you once they enter an area so long as you know it is them if solo. Harder if the GB is part of a group since a scout in their party could set that off.

The disadvantage there is even if you never met the GB you might Second Sight their party member you did meet and still get eyes on them.

A mage could also Astral Project to scout out the Glitter Boy and then quicklynzoom back to body at mach speed and then cast the teleport. A GB would need to be constantly moving around to prevent accuracy from that. If you summoned/controlled an entity they could also do that spotting for you.

Wow not only did you go so far back I had to waste time reading what you where pulling. But you addressed my post out of context. I was repling to a statement that some one said he would expect to be able to spot a GB 5 miles away with tactical binoculars. Something that has almost no chance of being done. So all talk about supernatural and teleporting is irrelevant to the claim of expecting to see a GB at 5 miles with binos. So although you list very unlikely case of no blocking terraine it is still nearly imposible to find a target in an unknown location at that range. With hand held optics such as the proposed bionos you would have 0 chance of finding a target the size of a GB at the 5 mile range. with vehicle or PA mounted optics aided by computer filtration looking for a target it may be possible if you have realy high quality optics and a clear line of sight.

If you are going to quote me please keep it to the last week or something easy to look up so I have an idea what you are talking about.

Note: when you quote some one and cut things back you need to leave the ] after the name of who you are quoting to make the quote box.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Hate to break it to you but at the same general height you can not see a GB 5 miles away, the curvature of the earth prevents it as would anything between you and the target. I have expensed with tactical binoculars and depending on what you are looking for 4 to 5 miles is a bit of a stretch often near impossible to find an unknown target smaller than a house. You are confusing max possible range with what is actually possible in field use or practical range.(Size of a target does matter in how far you can see a target)

Terrain could matter too. With same height at start and end, curvature of the earth wouldnt get in the way as much if the ground in between you was not at that height, like staring mountain to mountain or across a Hades Pit.

Then you have the various supernatural means of projecting your sight. Familiars being a good one unless GBs habitually waste ammo blasting every bird in sight.

Second Sight would work if you met the pilot before. Locate would work if you had a photo. Oracle could also work.

Teleport Lesser requiring knowing the location does not require seeing the location as you cast it.

The problem is timing. Something like a Mystic Alarm or Wards: Alarm could help tell you once they enter an area so long as you know it is them if solo. Harder if the GB is part of a group since a scout in their party could set that off.

The disadvantage there is even if you never met the GB you might Second Sight their party member you did meet and still get eyes on them.

A mage could also Astral Project to scout out the Glitter Boy and then quicklynzoom back to body at mach speed and then cast the teleport. A GB would need to be constantly moving around to prevent accuracy from that. If you summoned/controlled an entity they could also do that spotting for you.

Wow not only did you go so far back I had to waste time reading what you where pulling. But you addressed my post out of context. I was repling to a statement that some one said he would expect to be able to spot a GB 5 miles away with tactical binoculars. Something that has almost no chance of being done. So all talk about supernatural and teleporting is irrelevant to the claim of expecting to see a GB at 5 miles with binos. So although you list very unlikely case of no blocking terraine it is still nearly imposible to find a target in an unknown location at that range. With hand held optics such as the proposed bionos you would have 0 chance of finding a target the size of a GB at the 5 mile range. with vehicle or PA mounted optics aided by computer filtration looking for a target it may be possible if you have realy high quality optics and a clear line of sight.

If you are going to quote me please keep it to the last week or something easy to look up so I have an idea what you are talking about.

Note: when you quote some one and cut things back you need to leave the ] after the name of who you are quoting to make the quote box.

I HAVE a pair of binoculars good for about 3-4 miles, and they aren't exactly high tech expensive military optics. Theyre good enough that i can find my car in a parking lot from a couple of miles away, which is a far sight harder than a GIANT REFLECTIVE CHROME ROBOT.

[Marcethus]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

[Marcethus]

Now onto tactics to defeat a Glitterboy. Missiles, lots and lots of missiles. At more than 4+ missiles you can not dodge. And the percentage of destroying the entire volley even if you take out one missile when a non-missile weapon is used is less than 50% IIRC.

[Killer Cyborg]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

But it's an effect that affects an object.
If you teleport the object that the carpet is cast on, then the carpet would go with it.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

It most certainly IS an object:

The spell caster creates a sticky carpet, up to 10 feet wide by 20 feet long, that will adhere firmly to anyone who touches it.

And the passage you're referring to is when trying to use a Teleport to escape the Carpet; the Carpet is so powerful that you take part of it with you; but it IS an object, and i CAN teleport it.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Now onto tactics to defeat a Glitterboy. Missiles, lots and lots of missiles. At more than 4+ missiles you can not dodge. And the percentage of destroying the entire volley even if you take out one missile when a non-missile weapon is used is less than 50% IIRC.

At any range where you're firing from outside the Glitterboy's range to also hit you, though, he's got several attacks to shoot down incoming missiles, though if you use LRMs, its a functional game mechanical near-impossibility (requires a natural 20).

[Killer Cyborg]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

It most certainly IS an object:

The spell caster creates a sticky carpet, up to 10 feet wide by 20 feet long, that will adhere firmly to anyone who touches it.

And the passage you're referring to is when trying to use a Teleport to escape the Carpet; the Carpet is so powerful that you take part of it with you; but it IS an object, and i CAN teleport it.

Is the object Shag, or Berber?
How much damage capacity does it have, and what kind?
What color is it?

[Marcethus]

Now onto tactics to defeat a Glitterboy. Missiles, lots and lots of missiles. At more than 4+ missiles you can not dodge. And the percentage of destroying the entire volley even if you take out one missile when a non-missile weapon is used is less than 50% IIRC.

At any range where you're firing from outside the Glitterboy's range to also hit you, though, he's got several attacks to shoot down incoming missiles, though if you use LRMs, its a functional game mechanical near-impossibility (requires a natural 20).

At the speeds that missiles fly there is no way in Hades the Pilot of a GB even with the 11000ft range of the Boom Gun would have enough time to fire more than once or twice (GM's call) at any incoming volley.

RUE Pg 364: The character can only shoot at one missile within a volley, at a time. A volley of 6 missiles would require six separate attacks, which is impossible at the speeds that missiles travel. This means the character has only one or two attacks (GM's discretion) to shoot at one or two missiles within the volley.

[Marcethus]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

It most certainly IS an object:

The spell caster creates a sticky carpet, up to 10 feet wide by 20 feet long, that will adhere firmly to anyone who touches it.

And the passage you're referring to is when trying to use a Teleport to escape the Carpet; the Carpet is so powerful that you take part of it with you; but it IS an object, and i CAN teleport it.

The spell caster creates a carpet, up to 10ft wide by 20 ft long, that will firmly adhere to anyone that touches it. The victim stays stuck until the carpet time elapses or until the spell caster cancels the spell. The carpet can be cast on a floor, table, wall, etc., or it can be cast on a person. The spell caster creates this super fly-paper up to 90ft away and can alter the size and shape (Without exceeding the 200 sq.ft limit) Saving Throw: If a successful saving throw vs. magic is made, that player rolls two six sided dice to see how many rounds melee rounds it will take him to pull free. Those failing to make the saving throw are stuck for the entire duration of the spell. Effect even against cyborgs, power armor, robots, and those with Supernatural PS. Someone who Teleports away will teleport part of the carpet with them (just the immediate area around them) and remains stuck when they reach their new destination

It is not an object at all but a magic effect that is attaches to either the floor, wall, table or person. Nowhere does it say that it can be cast on an object. COA is so strong an effect that when a caster teleports out they are still stuck when they arrive at their new destination. You cannot teleport the entire carpet. And even if it were an object Teleport: Lesser says you have to touch an object to teleport it which would make you stuck to the carpet of adhesion which would spoil your idea of teleporting the object because it is now adhered to you. The idea of casting COA on a GB then tossing a fusion block to stick to the COA'd GB that might work. But not teleporting a COA'd Fusion block.

[Killer Cyborg]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

It most certainly IS an object:

The spell caster creates a sticky carpet, up to 10 feet wide by 20 feet long, that will adhere firmly to anyone who touches it.

And the passage you're referring to is when trying to use a Teleport to escape the Carpet; the Carpet is so powerful that you take part of it with you; but it IS an object, and i CAN teleport it.

The spell caster creates a carpet, up to 10ft wide by 20 ft long, that will firmly adhere to anyone that touches it. The victim stays stuck until the carpet time elapses or until the spell caster cancels the spell. The carpet can be cast on a floor, table, wall, etc., or it can be cast on a person. The spell caster creates this super fly-paper up to 90ft away and can alter the size and shape (Without exceeding the 200 sq.ft limit) Saving Throw: If a successful saving throw vs. magic is made, that player rolls two six sided dice to see how many rounds melee rounds it will take him to pull free. Those failing to make the saving throw are stuck for the entire duration of the spell. Effect even against cyborgs, power armor, robots, and those with Supernatural PS. Someone who Teleports away will teleport part of the carpet with them (just the immediate area around them) and remains stuck when they reach their new destination

It is not an object at all but a magic effect that is attaches to either the floor, wall, table or person. Nowhere does it say that it can be cast on an object.

A table isn't an object?

[J_cobbers]

On the issue of teleporting an entire COA, it doesn't work that way. It specifically states that when teleport is used as a means of escaping the Carpet it teleports the small area surrounding the mage when he teleports OUT of the COA. You can not telelport COA it is a spell effect and not an object.

It most certainly IS an object:

The spell caster creates a sticky carpet, up to 10 feet wide by 20 feet long, that will adhere firmly to anyone who touches it.

And the passage you're referring to is when trying to use a Teleport to escape the Carpet; the Carpet is so powerful that you take part of it with you; but it IS an object, and i CAN teleport it.

The spell caster creates a carpet, up to 10ft wide by 20 ft long, that will firmly adhere to anyone that touches it. The victim stays stuck until the carpet time elapses or until the spell caster cancels the spell. The carpet can be cast on a floor, table, wall, etc., or it can be cast on a person. The spell caster creates this super fly-paper up to 90ft away and can alter the size and shape (Without exceeding the 200 sq.ft limit) Saving Throw: If a successful saving throw vs. magic is made, that player rolls two six sided dice to see how many rounds melee rounds it will take him to pull free. Those failing to make the saving throw are stuck for the entire duration of the spell. Effect even against cyborgs, power armor, robots, and those with Supernatural PS. Someone who Teleports away will teleport part of the carpet with them (just the immediate area around them) and remains stuck when they reach their new destination

It is not an object at all but a magic effect that is attaches to either the floor, wall, table or person. Nowhere does it say that it can be cast on an object. COA is so strong an effect that when a caster teleports out they are still stuck when they arrive at their new destination. You cannot teleport the entire carpet. And even if it were an object Teleport: Lesser says you have to touch an object to teleport it which would make you stuck to the carpet of adhesion which would spoil your idea of teleporting the object because it is now adhered to you. The idea of casting COA on a GB then tossing a fusion block to stick to the COA'd GB that might work. But not teleporting a COA'd Fusion block.

You are misreading the spells.

First sentence says "it creates a carpet" plain English means there's a carpet. A carpet is an object, regardless of it's magic properties or temporary nature. But the entry as written describes what can only be a physical object, not a mere magical effect. Please show me the text that says it is an effect in the shape of a carpet and not an actual, though magically created, carpet. The spell also says the "spell caster can create this super fly paper" again describing an physical object being created, not just an effect. Other wise it might read like this: this spell creates an area that acts like a sticky carpet; or creates an effect much like a super fly paper. Instead the language in the description of the spell specifically says "creates a carpet," and "can create this super fly paper." There is no ambiguity in the plan meaning of the language used, and your understanding is therefore flawed.

I understand your argument about only people teleporting the carpet away take it with them. But COA does not say that you cannon teleport the COA itself. Read closely, you are not teleporting away from the COA, it's the COA that's taking the trip. It is an object, therefore subject to Teleport Lesser. At worst, the one finger you use to touch the COA while casting the Teleport would have some COA goo left on it until the spell ended. In my earlier post in this topic you may note I advocate teleporting the COA itself and the Fusion blocks, which are already adhered to the COA, at the same time. In other words: Step 1, cast COA. Step 2, Place Fusion blocks together on the edge of COA close enough to touch all 3 blocks at the same time. Step 3, touch COA and Fusion blocks at same time. Step 4, cast Teleportation Lesser targeting the GB's boomgun as the location the fusion blocks are centered on. Thus they appear on the GB's boomgun with the carpet. Teleportation Lesser allows a weight limit of objects, here we are not surpassing said limit. So in my application vs just teleport the blocks, they all go together, which has the added benefit of putting the COA on top of the GB and it's surrounding area.

Read the spells closely and apply the plain understanding of the language, and by logic this is the correct application of their operation based on those descriptions. I am not saying you don't have a good inference that the COA should be stuck to the person teleporting it, because it seems like that's what would happen as a parallel to the description of someone teleporting themselves away from the COA, but that is an inference only and contradicts what Teleport Lesser purports to be able to do. But you are correct that teleporting the Fusion Blocks alone wouldn't take part of the COA with them, because COA as described says only "Someone who teleports away teleports part of the Carpet with them" and not "SomeTHING teleported away teleports part of the Carpet with them." "Someone" indicates a person or being and not a mere object.

Finally if you want to argue that the COA has to be cast on the ground or another object, and can't be placed on top of the boomgun I would agree with you, but only for the initial casting of COA. Teleport Less changes it's location, and there is no reason why you can't teleport something several feet into the air to be right above the boomgun. Gravity takes over from there.

I actually really like this spell combo as a general long range trap that could be sprung on an area pre-scouted by the mage and his buddies even without the explosives.

Another option I was thinking of requires a pretty powerful caster to get in close to the GB by say Invisibility Superior and then cast Teleport Superior on the GB and send it 300 miles/level straight up into the air, and let gravity do the rest.