[Mashup] Rifts & Mortal Kombat

[Molydeus]

In the near future, an inauspicious event -- a nuclear exchange between Iran and North Korea -- happened during a very inauspicious time. The equinox and total solar eclipse itself might not have been significant, had it not coincided with the same astronomical event in a parallel dimension known as Outworld. Even these correspondences would not have been enough to tear open the barriers between Earth and Outworld, were it not for all the deaths lost in the nuclear exchange flooding the fabric of the world with psychic energy. Wild energy hemorrhaging from Outworld created weather and seismic disturbances, adding to the death toll, which further increased the psychic energy released and thus destabilized the natural barrier between dimensions even more. Similar disturbances disrupted life and order in Outworld, though it was an altogether more brutal world better able to handle these sorts of disruptions.

Now, in the years following that cataclysmic event, everything has changed. Entire regions and cities here on Earth lay in ruins. In a few places, locations and objects transposed -- the monuments and buildings of Outworld litter the Earth's landscape. The world's economies are recovering slowly and sporadically after total collapse, while life and society attempt to find stability in this new and damaged world.

One of the current threats facing us are invaders from the other world -- some people call them Outworlders, others call them D-Bees (slang abbreviation for dimensional beings). The Outworld is a place where magic and supernatural power reign, not technology; that world's inhabitants retain their sorcerous powers when they visit Earth, which most are hard-pressed to counter. Not all D-Bees mean us harm, but enough of them do, and their capabilities are alien, unqualified and often terrifying. Some are for all intents and purposes human, though possessed of uncanny knowledge and capabilities. Others are very clearly inhuman: reptile-people, four-armed dragon-men, humanoids with huge maws of sharp piranha teeth, and demonic entities of varied ability and countenance.

But the advantage is not all theirs. Just as most of our people are unprepared to face magic, the Outworlders often find themselves poorly able to handle technology. The Outer World Investigation Coalition -- often referred to as just Coalition for short -- uses cutting-edge technology and tactics to not only defend Earth, but to take the fight to the enemy. Firearms, cybernetics, grenades, vehicles and other tools of the trade are great counters for bolts of magical energy and rampaging centaur-demons.

Rifts in the fabric of space and time permit limited travel back and forth between the two worlds. So far, the rifts are small, not permitting more than a few people (or other... things) through at a time. Most rifts are unstable, flickering in and out or disappearing altogether, with others appearing in seemingly random places. No rifts found so far are reliable and large enough to march an army through, and so far there have been a lot of individual skirmishes, but no large-scale military action. But the Outworlders are ready for such an invasion, and actively look for apertures through which they might cross. Meanwhile, the Coalition looks for such rifts too, to fortify Earth and mount invasions to the Outworld.

[Zer0 Kay]

Careful the Mods will likely see this as a conversion or IP issue.

[Molydeus]

Careful the Mods will likely see this as a conversion or IP issue.

Palladium is still on that kick? Hi Dean, where are all these hundreds of lawsuits for all those other conversions of intellectual property out there?

That's not how copyright law works. It's never worked that way. If I tried to monetize this, yeah, I would expect both Palladium and Midway or whoever owns MK nail to come after me. But taking your favorite game system or setting and mashing it together with properties like video games or giant transforming robots or other role-playing games? That isn't violating anything. Some people might not grasp that, but at least I do. Otherwise all my other conversion fan work would have caused me to become destitute and probably homeless.

I'm not saying that my Rifts/MK idea is a good one or anything, I'm not defending that in itself. But if the powers-that-be here would throw a fit about this sort of thing, maybe I'm posting in the wrong place.

[Zer0 Kay]

Careful the Mods will likely see this as a conversion or IP issue.

Palladium is still on that kick? Hi Dean, where are all these hundreds of lawsuits for all those other conversions of intellectual property out there?

That's not how copyright law works. It's never worked that way. If I tried to monetize this, yeah, I would expect both Palladium and Midway or whoever owns MK nail to come after me. But taking your favorite game system or setting and mashing it together with properties like video games or giant transforming robots or other role-playing games? That isn't violating anything. Some people might not grasp that, but at least I do. Otherwise all my other conversion fan work would have caused me to become destitute and probably homeless.

I'm not saying that my Rifts/MK idea is a good one or anything, I'm not defending that in itself. But if the powers-that-be here would throw a fit about this sort of thing, maybe I'm posting in the wrong place.

I know, I've always wondered about their attorney. Their stupid stand on IP having nothing to do with actual IP laws has certainly killed many great ideas.

[Nightmask]

Careful the Mods will likely see this as a conversion or IP issue.

Palladium is still on that kick? Hi Dean, where are all these hundreds of lawsuits for all those other conversions of intellectual property out there?

That's not how copyright law works. It's never worked that way. If I tried to monetize this, yeah, I would expect both Palladium and Midway or whoever owns MK nail to come after me. But taking your favorite game system or setting and mashing it together with properties like video games or giant transforming robots or other role-playing games? That isn't violating anything. Some people might not grasp that, but at least I do. Otherwise all my other conversion fan work would have caused me to become destitute and probably homeless.

I'm not saying that my Rifts/MK idea is a good one or anything, I'm not defending that in itself. But if the powers-that-be here would throw a fit about this sort of thing, maybe I'm posting in the wrong place.

I know, I've always wondered about their attorney. Their stupid stand on IP having nothing to do with actual IP laws has certainly killed many great ideas.

You're ignoring a key factor here: the nuisance lawsuit. These frivolous lawsuits (like when whatshisname sued over NightSPAWN because he felt he owned the word spawn and no one else could use it) are extremely costly in time and money to fight and even if you're totally in the legal right to what you've done what it's cost you in time and money can never be recovered. There's a bumper crop of such lawsuits out there that have destroyed some industries and nearly crippled others so it's not surprising Palladium doesn't want to waste a single penny on those people.

[Zer0 Kay]

Careful the Mods will likely see this as a conversion or IP issue.

Palladium is still on that kick? Hi Dean, where are all these hundreds of lawsuits for all those other conversions of intellectual property out there?

That's not how copyright law works. It's never worked that way. If I tried to monetize this, yeah, I would expect both Palladium and Midway or whoever owns MK nail to come after me. But taking your favorite game system or setting and mashing it together with properties like video games or giant transforming robots or other role-playing games? That isn't violating anything. Some people might not grasp that, but at least I do. Otherwise all my other conversion fan work would have caused me to become destitute and probably homeless.

I'm not saying that my Rifts/MK idea is a good one or anything, I'm not defending that in itself. But if the powers-that-be here would throw a fit about this sort of thing, maybe I'm posting in the wrong place.

I know, I've always wondered about their attorney. Their stupid stand on IP having nothing to do with actual IP laws has certainly killed many great ideas.

You're ignoring a key factor here: the nuisance lawsuit. These frivolous lawsuits (like when whatshisname sued over NightSPAWN because he felt he owned the word spawn and no one else could use it) are extremely costly in time and money to fight and even if you're totally in the legal right to what you've done what it's cost you in time and money can never be recovered. There's a bumper crop of such lawsuits out there that have destroyed some industries and nearly crippled others so it's not surprising Palladium doesn't want to waste a single penny on those people.

And yet their splicers look like Guyver and their tunnel worm bot thing looks like a screamer and George Romero should be able to sue anything zombie related that isn't directly the drug induced zombie of voodoo.

BTW it was Todd McFarlane. I used to collect his female figures but then the last wave that isn't shown on his website had cyberspawn vs. the Mechanoids. I thought holy crap he did not, less than a year after the Nightspawn lawsuit. I forget who I sent it to with a note that it would probably be better to nip it in the bud before McFarlane goes into full production. I didn't he's anything, of course, and then McFarlane pulls the wave and since then has never released another wave of spawn figures. So I did good by PB helping keep their IP safe and maby get a little justice on McFarlane, but I screwed myself by killing off my future collection

[Nightmask]

Careful the Mods will likely see this as a conversion or IP issue.

Palladium is still on that kick? Hi Dean, where are all these hundreds of lawsuits for all those other conversions of intellectual property out there?

That's not how copyright law works. It's never worked that way. If I tried to monetize this, yeah, I would expect both Palladium and Midway or whoever owns MK nail to come after me. But taking your favorite game system or setting and mashing it together with properties like video games or giant transforming robots or other role-playing games? That isn't violating anything. Some people might not grasp that, but at least I do. Otherwise all my other conversion fan work would have caused me to become destitute and probably homeless.

I'm not saying that my Rifts/MK idea is a good one or anything, I'm not defending that in itself. But if the powers-that-be here would throw a fit about this sort of thing, maybe I'm posting in the wrong place.

I know, I've always wondered about their attorney. Their stupid stand on IP having nothing to do with actual IP laws has certainly killed many great ideas.

You're ignoring a key factor here: the nuisance lawsuit. These frivolous lawsuits (like when whatshisname sued over NightSPAWN because he felt he owned the word spawn and no one else could use it) are extremely costly in time and money to fight and even if you're totally in the legal right to what you've done what it's cost you in time and money can never be recovered. There's a bumper crop of such lawsuits out there that have destroyed some industries and nearly crippled others so it's not surprising Palladium doesn't want to waste a single penny on those people.

And yet their splicers look like Guyver and their tunnel worm bot thing looks like a screamer and George Romero should be able to sue anything zombie related that isn't directly the drug induced zombie of voodoo.

BTW it was Todd McFarlane. I used to collect his female figures but then the last wave that isn't shown on his website had cyberspawn vs. the Mechanoids. I thought holy crap he did not, less than a year after the Nightspawn lawsuit. I forget who I sent it to with a note that it would probably be better to nip it in the bud before McFarlane goes into full production. I didn't he's anything, of course, and then McFarlane pulls the wave and since then has never released another wave of spawn figures. So I did good by PB helping keep their IP safe and maby get a little justice on McFarlane, but I screwed myself by killing off my future collection

Things like zombies and even the loose appearance of the Guyver aren't going to prompt lawsuits because such things aren't really copyrightable or trademarkable in that fashion, at least not after copyright reached a certain point of maturity (since when for example Superman was new it was possible to successfully sue someone for having a superstrong, super-durable character but you can't now sue because Marvel's got multiple Superman knockoffs as just having similar powers isn't enough anymore), but if they wanted to be aggravating and didn't mind throwing the money away yes they could still do so even when certain to lose (like McFarlane) since it's about harassment since people generally fold than fight on based on principle especially when they can't really afford the fight. Palladium just can't afford those nuisance suits so choose to avoid providing as much fodder for them as they can.

[Zer0 Kay]

Palladium is still on that kick? Hi Dean, where are all these hundreds of lawsuits for all those other conversions of intellectual property out there?

That's not how copyright law works. It's never worked that way. If I tried to monetize this, yeah, I would expect both Palladium and Midway or whoever owns MK nail to come after me. But taking your favorite game system or setting and mashing it together with properties like video games or giant transforming robots or other role-playing games? That isn't violating anything. Some people might not grasp that, but at least I do. Otherwise all my other conversion fan work would have caused me to become destitute and probably homeless.

I'm not saying that my Rifts/MK idea is a good one or anything, I'm not defending that in itself. But if the powers-that-be here would throw a fit about this sort of thing, maybe I'm posting in the wrong place.

I know, I've always wondered about their attorney. Their stupid stand on IP having nothing to do with actual IP laws has certainly killed many great ideas.

You're ignoring a key factor here: the nuisance lawsuit. These frivolous lawsuits (like when whatshisname sued over NightSPAWN because he felt he owned the word spawn and no one else could use it) are extremely costly in time and money to fight and even if you're totally in the legal right to what you've done what it's cost you in time and money can never be recovered. There's a bumper crop of such lawsuits out there that have destroyed some industries and nearly crippled others so it's not surprising Palladium doesn't want to waste a single penny on those people.

And yet their splicers look like Guyver and their tunnel worm bot thing looks like a screamer and George Romero should be able to sue anything zombie related that isn't directly the drug induced zombie of voodoo.

BTW it was Todd McFarlane. I used to collect his female figures but then the last wave that isn't shown on his website had cyberspawn vs. the Mechanoids. I thought holy crap he did not, less than a year after the Nightspawn lawsuit. I forget who I sent it to with a note that it would probably be better to nip it in the bud before McFarlane goes into full production. I didn't he's anything, of course, and then McFarlane pulls the wave and since then has never released another wave of spawn figures. So I did good by PB helping keep their IP safe and maby get a little justice on McFarlane, but I screwed myself by killing off my future collection

Things like zombies and even the loose appearance of the Guyver aren't going to prompt lawsuits because such things aren't really copyrightable or trademarkable in that fashion, at least not after copyright reached a certain point of maturity (since when for example Superman was new it was possible to successfully sue someone for having a superstrong, super-durable character but you can't now sue because Marvel's got multiple Superman knockoffs as just having similar powers isn't enough anymore), but if they wanted to be aggravating and didn't mind throwing the money away yes they could still do so even when certain to lose (like McFarlane) since it's about harassment since people generally fold than fight on based on principle especially when they can't really afford the fight. Palladium just can't afford those nuisance suits so choose to avoid providing as much fodder for them as they can.

Loose Guyver? Mega beam smashers in chest with plates that have to be pulled open a max of two? High frequency bone blades in the arms? Yup loose, and sooooo many variants exist. Let see there is... nope got nothing. Still pretty protectable. The (c) last for a Verrrrry long time now thanks to Disney protecting Mickey or rather Steamboat Willie. Which was apparently never correctly (c)ed.

[Molydeus]

Nuisance lawsuits are the exception rather than the rule, and not really applicable to the subject at hand. The primary motivation for such lawsuits is to prevent others from monetizing one's own intellectual property, which is not only valid but is essential if you want to protect your IP. If there's no potential for profit, most rational companies don't care. Paramount is infamous for its rigid policing of Star Trek novels and merchandise, but they don't really give a damn if you post some short story about Captain Kirk on your webpage. If you try to sell that novel without going through the proper steps, however, they have the right to come after you.

Fan work is stuff that people produce for free because they love something. This includes fanfiction, art, and RPG conversions. You can build goodwill and grow a fan base by encouraging this sort of thing, or you can hemorrhage fans because you go after it. You want some real world examples of this phenomenon?

Let's look at Pinnacle Entertainment Group. They have this neat little game called Savage Worlds they bill as a universal game system. Then they actually encourage you to do what you want to with it and share your work! Crazy, right? They even have links on their very own official web page to unofficial fan conversions of properties such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Avatar (the anime series), Naruto, D&D, Shadowrun, and other properties. They do this because they understand that fans are a resource, not some sort of threat. They also seem to understand how IP laws actually work. It appears their interpretation might be right, because it doesn't appear that nuisance lawsuits are raining down on them.

Essentially, because Pinnacle encourages their fans, said rubes like me work for free to create gaming content, so existing fans play and talk about SW. Further, third party SW conversions entice people interested in that property (like Naruto or Trek) to pick up SW and play it... and viola, new customer. Plus free advertisement for the IP owner, so everybody wins -- if I'm playing a Bajoran in a Savage Trek game, I'm the sort that will go out and buy official Trek resources so I could play that character more effectively. (Just like I am now investing in Palladium books so I'll have more material for my Savage Rifts game. Yes, Savage Rifts is officially licensed, but the principle is the same. Palladium profits as a result of someone else using their ideas.)

There's a lot of love for Savage Worlds, because Pinnacle supports and cultivates its fan base. (So long as they're not trying to monetize it or do things that actually threaten their IP.) And if you do want to publish your own SW material for-profit, Pinnacle actually makes it pretty easy to do that. It's pretty clear that they are benefiting from this practice. They're actually growing without having to do much of anything, just by not abusing their fans.

Meanwhile, another game publisher whose name I won't mention, but one that also bills its house system as universal, doesn't seem to be doing as well. It has this game system that they claim that you can do anything with, any genre... yet has policies that strongly discourage people from actually doing that or sharing their work. This company has sent cease-and-desist letters to fans for website material, and it has lost fans as a result. Aside from a lonely little webpage and forum, and the occasional convention game, the publisher is practically invisible in the broader gaming community. Rather than creating goodwill with its fans, it carefully scrutinizes what those fans do and the sort of ideas they might share. The publisher engages in the exact opposite behaviors that would generate brand awareness and buzz, and thus the fan base slowly atrophies. And it seems that this reactionary mindset is all based on a poor understanding of IP law, and fear of legal doom that will never come. This publisher is so fearful and reactionary that somehow even mentioning something like, say, a video game on their forums might be cause for alarm.

Fear is the mind killer, as it keeps the publisher in question from realizing its potential and growing again. Something I would personally like to see. Despite that, I might be afraid to speak directly to this company and address it, for fear my concern being interpreted as a form of attack.

But I did go off on a little bit of a tangent there, didn't I? Where was I? Oh yeah... seriously and for realsies, I don't think mentioning Mortal Kombat or anything else here is any cause for panic.

[The Beast]

...Paramount is infamous for its rigid policing of Star Trek novels and merchandise, but they don't really give a damn if you post some short story about Captain Kirk on your webpage...

And Palladium does care about it getting posted here...

[Molydeus]

...Paramount is infamous for its rigid policing of Star Trek novels and merchandise, but they don't really give a damn if you post some short story about Captain Kirk on your webpage...

And Palladium does care about it getting posted here...

Wow, what a remarkably intelligent observation, there.

Of course they would care about it. This is not the place to be posting Star Trek fan fiction.

Did you entirely miss my points, or is weak snarking at a throwaway example the best you can manage? Should I have used smaller sentences and words?

Warning: Trolling

[eliakon]

How about we use an easier to follow example.
This forum is owned by Palladium. Thus it is 'their house'. In their house, their rules need to be followed, because speech in their house is construed, legally, to be sanctioned by them, and in fact legally is their speech. Thus they have a rule that on their forums there can be no use of other peoples IPs with out explicit authorization from the IP holder. Because otherwise it can be construed that they are endorsing the unauthorized use of other peoples IP. What you do in your page is your business though and not theirs. Palladium though does not maintain an official links page any more.

To use your Savage Worlds example. Pinnacle games does not host conversions on their site. In fact, the Pinnacle forum rules even say that posting conversions of copyright material is against the rules. Odd that, one would almost think that it was like, the law or something.
The level of enforcement of this varies from company to company. Link pages to fan sites, or web rings are fine as long as the sites are not affiliated with the company in any way. That provides a legal separation so that if an IP holder does decide to come down on someone they will go after the fan not the company.

[Zer0 Kay]

How about we use an easier to follow example.
This forum is owned by Palladium. Thus it is 'their house'. In their house, their rules need to be followed, because speech in their house is construed, legally, to be sanctioned by them, and in fact legally is their speech. Thus they have a rule that on their forums there can be no use of other peoples IPs with out explicit authorization from the IP holder. Because otherwise it can be construed that they are endorsing the unauthorized use of other peoples IP. What you do in your page is your business though and not theirs. Palladium though does not maintain an official links page any more.

To use your Savage Worlds example. Pinnacle games does not host conversions on their site. In fact, the Pinnacle forum rules even say that posting conversions of copyright material is against the rules. Odd that, one would almost think that it was like, the law or something.
The level of enforcement of this varies from company to company. Link pages to fan sites, or web rings are fine as long as the sites are not affiliated with the company in any way. That provides a legal separation so that if an IP holder does decide to come down on someone they will go after the fan not the company.

Ah, however, they go into other peoples "houses" and also tell them to stop.

[eliakon]

How about we use an easier to follow example.
This forum is owned by Palladium. Thus it is 'their house'. In their house, their rules need to be followed, because speech in their house is construed, legally, to be sanctioned by them, and in fact legally is their speech. Thus they have a rule that on their forums there can be no use of other peoples IPs with out explicit authorization from the IP holder. Because otherwise it can be construed that they are endorsing the unauthorized use of other peoples IP. What you do in your page is your business though and not theirs. Palladium though does not maintain an official links page any more.

To use your Savage Worlds example. Pinnacle games does not host conversions on their site. In fact, the Pinnacle forum rules even say that posting conversions of copyright material is against the rules. Odd that, one would almost think that it was like, the law or something.
The level of enforcement of this varies from company to company. Link pages to fan sites, or web rings are fine as long as the sites are not affiliated with the company in any way. That provides a legal separation so that if an IP holder does decide to come down on someone they will go after the fan not the company.

Ah, however, they go into other peoples "houses" and also tell them to stop.

True. Each IP holder is allowed to determine the level of active control they wish to exert.
Palladium chooses to exert a high level of control. But it doesn't mean that their level is 'wrong' or 'not following IP law' just that they are actively enforcing the strictest levels.
And frankly one doesn't know all the reasons behind it. Though we do know that Palladium has gotten burned at least once, and has at least two contracts with other IP holders (Harmony Gold, and Disney) that may include IP maintenance clauses.

[Molydeus]

I'm not saying that an unnamed publisher doesn't have the right to do exactly what they're doing. In their house, people follow their rules. That's understood, and I'm not disputing that.

All I'm doing is questioning how beneficial that behavior is to that publisher, when we can see the negative effects that it's having, while being fan-friendlier is verifiably working for other game publishers. That's all. Because I honestly want the unnamed publisher to do well and continue to sell books because I like those books.

[Zer0 Kay]

How about we use an easier to follow example.
This forum is owned by Palladium. Thus it is 'their house'. In their house, their rules need to be followed, because speech in their house is construed, legally, to be sanctioned by them, and in fact legally is their speech. Thus they have a rule that on their forums there can be no use of other peoples IPs with out explicit authorization from the IP holder. Because otherwise it can be construed that they are endorsing the unauthorized use of other peoples IP. What you do in your page is your business though and not theirs. Palladium though does not maintain an official links page any more.

To use your Savage Worlds example. Pinnacle games does not host conversions on their site. In fact, the Pinnacle forum rules even say that posting conversions of copyright material is against the rules. Odd that, one would almost think that it was like, the law or something.
The level of enforcement of this varies from company to company. Link pages to fan sites, or web rings are fine as long as the sites are not affiliated with the company in any way. That provides a legal separation so that if an IP holder does decide to come down on someone they will go after the fan not the company.

Ah, however, they go into other peoples "houses" and also tell them to stop.

True. Each IP holder is allowed to determine the level of active control they wish to exert.
Palladium chooses to exert a high level of control. But it doesn't mean that their level is 'wrong' or 'not following IP law' just that they are actively enforcing the strictest levels.
And frankly one doesn't know all the reasons behind it. Though we do know that Palladium has gotten burned at least once, and has at least two contracts with other IP holders (Harmony Gold, and Disney) that may include IP maintenance clauses.

Burned at least twice.

McFarlane with Spawn and Trion with Rift

[Jefffar]

Little story about the no conversions policy. A long time ago in an online fan communities far away but arguably owned by Palladium Books, a fan posted a conversion of a certain knight type character from a series of movies about a war in the stars.

Lucasfilm's lawyers were on the phone shortly thereafter advising they saw Palladium allowing such things on Palladium's corner of the internet as an attempt to breach their copyright. Palladium decided that discretion was cheaper than legal fees and banned conversions from their forums.

As for when and if this is a conversion. Well if specific game related terminology that would allow one to interpret game mechanic elements were posted, it becomes a conversion. This could be as broad as positing a certain character would probably be a certain class or as specific as posting direct game stats.

So, crossover ideas, fine. Actually trying to make something not Palladium playable in Palladium, bad.

[Zer0 Kay]

Little story about the no conversions policy. A long time ago in an online fan communities far away but arguably owned by Palladium Books, a fan posted a conversion of a certain knight type character from a series of movies about a war in the stars.

Lucasfilm's lawyers were on the phone shortly thereafter advising they saw Palladium allowing such things on Palladium's corner of the internet as an attempt to breach their copyright. Palladium decided that discretion was cheaper than legal fees and banned conversions from their forums.

As for when and if this is a conversion. Well if specific game related terminology that would allow one to interpret game mechanic elements were posted, it becomes a conversion. This could be as broad as positing a certain character would probably be a certain class or as specific as posting direct game stats.

So, crossover ideas, fine. Actually trying to make something not Palladium playable in Palladium, bad.

So that explains in house. Why do they send cease and desist when people do it on their own? Palladium can not be held responsible for what people it on their own websites.
Now the funny thing is the company that owns the series about the war in the stars also owns the rights to make the Rifts movie. To bad Disney isn't a huge fan of PB and gives the SW game liscenze to PB after the current license is up... That'd be hella funny.
Hey that other forum. Are you talking the one that existed pre 2K? I miss some of the stuff i had on there.

[Molydeus]

Little story about the no conversions policy., <snip>

That actually puts things in context quite a bit. Thanks for the explanation.

I'll quit beating that dead horse now. I still wish that Palladium (okay, I said it) would be less hostile to purely fan-created work. They created a lot of ill will with the cease-and-desist stunts.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Sorry. I don't buy it. I don't doubt that's the story that Jefffar heard but I don't buy it. Lucasfilm isn't putting their lawyers on all the hundreds of thousands if not literal MILLIONS of usages of Luke Skywalker on web pages or by 'fans' on websites for rpg pages. It's just not happening. There's not enough lawyers in the world.

Again I'm not saying Jefffar is lieing. That might be the story he was told. I just don't remotely buy that it actually happened.

[eliakon]

They do however hit some of them. No one, not Disney, not Lucasfilm, not Games Workshop, not Marvel, or DC, not even the RMCA... Nobody can, or does hit every single instance of infringement. But they do hit some so as to show that they are doing their 'due diligence' to protect their IP. If Palladium happened to be the one that won the 'you get to be some' lottery (especially if Lucasfilm felt that it was something that was in some way being sanctioned by Palladium in any official capacity). Well then, it would really suck, badly. And a brush with what would be effectively corporate death by court would make a lot of people get pretty paranoid about making sure that nothing remotely like it ever happened again.

[Pepsi Jedi]

And you might get hit by a falling meterorite when you walk out of your house in the morning but you don't cower in fear that the sky is falling.

Is it "Out side the remote possibility that it 'could' happen in the universe" No. It 'could' happen.

I just don't buy for a second it DID happen.

THAT (The story with Skywalker and lucasfilm) is something a lawyer gives as an example of what COULD happen to scare people. Nothing more.

[eliakon]

Since the question here is "why does Palladium send out CAD letters to people" it would suggest that even small firms like Palladium are quite capable of searching the internet for people doing things with their IP that they don't like.
I would imagine that large companies law firms are at least as competent with search engines as I am and know how to do a search for key words like <Trade Mark #1> + "Role Playing Game"...
And then sending off an automated CAD if its a small offender, and personally calling someone if it looks like it might actually be a potential infringement attempt.
This is after all one of the ways how the RMCA finds people using music.
But hey, you can believe that Palladium is the only person with lawyers willing to go after people if you like. I tend to believe people who say that they ran afoul of a lawyer.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Again it's not that I think such things are impossible. I know that they are 'possible'. If you're referring to the RIAA (RMCA? Not sure what that acronym is) finding people using and downloading (Usually it's 'sharing' that gets you in trouble. Not the downloading) Yes. They exist.

The single grain of sand on the beach. Yes they go after the rare person. They make a huge deal out of it and those unfortunate souls that are singled out, end up paying fines that are retarded anyway you look at it. It's a fear tactic, meant to 'scare' the sheep enough to not do what they shouldn't do (It is illegal. Don't get me wrong)

That said. By and large. Noone cares. Everyone still downloads music.. or grabs them off Youtube and puts them through a converter. or any of another dozen ways. Music, books, even games and what not. Not one or two but hundreds of thousands if not millions a day.

The one or two people that they 'catch' to make examples out of. Whooooo sucks to be them, but they're those 'single grains of sand on the beach' yes.. they get pinched and very unfairly. But millions and millions and millions of people download songs every day and are just fine.

Yes the RIAA 'does' go after people for file sharing. yes if they single you out and you're caught it's all kinds of bad as they do horrible things to you (That frankly shouldn't be legal) but the chances of being that one, are one in tens of millions committing the same 'crime'. So it's so infrequent and unlikely as to be a non issue (Unless you win that lottery and end up in their crosshairs) Heck you probably have a better chance of winning a real lottery.

In this case, yes, I'm sure Lucasfilm does go after people from time to time. No doubt.

Just don't buy it in THIS case.

Of course Palladium would put out a story like that, because it justifies THEIR own actions. I remember when they went after palladium fan sites in the past with their lawyer. They're actually well known for it. (Not in a good way) And some what unfairly. For every claim of people that SAY they got a letter from Palladium's lawyer in that time frame... lol Palladium would have to have had a firm of 20 on retainer drafting letters. (Doubtful).

But yes.. if you fear downloading to the extent palladium does, (They refused VIOLENTLY Doing PDFs of books for years up till very very recently, by accounts only took them on after a meeting kevin had with a Drivetru RPG guy at a con that pointed out how much money he was losing) they refused for years and years and years and years from selling their books digitally due to "PIRACY!!!"

Even though it was pointed out to them (Also repeatedly) That all their books were already out there to download for free if people WANTED to do that sort of illegal activity, so their refusal to put out PDF's wasn't hurting/stopping pirates at all (They already had the books up illegally online) and was only hurting Palladium itself.

Still for years and years they screamed "PIRACY" As their reason. So of course they're going to use the 'example' the lawyer gives them as what happened to THEM. It justifies their fears.

That's IF they even claim that. I've not heard the Skywalker/Lucas film threat story till tonight. So.... *Shrugs*

[Blue_Lion]

It is most reasonable that posting conversions is band as to make sure PB never becomes a target of such a lawsuit. Sights owned by what are seen as major gaming companies likely receive greater attention than most fan sights and Lucas has sued a few people over the years.

PB may be paranoid about protecting IP both theirs and others but they still make some good games. The paranoia does help them avoid risk of a lawsuit that could shut them down even if people do find it annoying at time perhaps they are so diligent on use of there IP is because they got hammered by some one elses.

I would recommend removing all terminology from another IP and work on a mystic martial arts vs tech idea. You could use ninjas and super spies as an starting point and maybe add in super power energy explosion. That would give you your idea while preventing a thread from being shut down. (With all the chi blasting cartoons(could not spell the Japanese name for the life of me right now) and fighting games out there creating that would not violate any ones IP as long as you do not use there charters and names.)

[Zer0 Kay]

Sorry. I don't buy it. I don't doubt that's the story that Jefffar heard but I don't buy it. Lucasfilm isn't putting their lawyers on all the hundreds of thousands if not literal MILLIONS of usages of Luke Skywalker on web pages or by 'fans' on websites for rpg pages. It's just not happening. There's not enough lawyers in the world.

Again I'm not saying Jefffar is lieing. That might be the story he was told. I just don't remotely buy that it actually happened.

Those fan sites aren't seen by LA as attempting to make money off their IP

[Molydeus]

I'm willing to give Palladium the benefit of the doubt here, and assume they wouldn't lie about that. Something happened to put the fear of litigation into them, and if that's the case, it only makes sense to servative about such matters.
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I would recommend removing all terminology from another IP and work on a mystic martial arts vs tech idea. You could use ninjas and super spies as an starting point and maybe add in super power energy explosion. That would give you your idea while preventing a thread from being shut down. (With all the chi blasting cartoons(could not spell the Japanese name for the life of me right now) and fighting games out there creating that would not violate any ones IP as long as you do not use there charters and names.)

Martial arts + hi-tech + magic has been done before, that's really nothing novel. What I want to do is explore the really awesome parallels between Rifts and Mortal Kombat specifically. Interdimensional travel, martial arts action, magic and tech clashing, bizarre alien races... this stuff is gold, and there are too many parallels to not want to explore the hell out of that. I don't want just some extradimensional realm with generic monsters, I want the Outworld and Goro's dragon-man race. I don't want some knock-off cyborg with military rank, I want Jax Briggs because he's one of my favorite characters from any property. And so on and so forth.

But I'll just explore the idea on other forums, or run such a game from the safety of my very own gaming table, where people won't yell "IP violation! IP violation!" at me. I'm here to share ideas, not ruffle feathers, so I will limit my topics of conversation here.

That's my takeaway from this, anyway.

[Zer0 Kay]

I hate having to only be able to share ideas around a table. That was why a few years back some of us had made a forum to speak on that was only accessible by invitation otherwise nothing was viewable. I however have since lost the address, my login and password. Heck probably doesn't exist any more.

[Molydeus]

I hate having to only be able to share ideas around a table. That was why a few years back some of us had made a forum to speak on that was only accessible by invitation otherwise nothing was viewable. I however have since lost the address, my login and password. Heck probably doesn't exist any more.

Kind of sucks, huh? Anyway, if you happen to dig up that info, let me know. I'd be interested in participating, assuming that forum exists anymore.

But I am a guest in Palladium's house here, and out of respect to my hosts, I will respect their rules. Again, I certainly didn't mean to cause any trouble by posting what I did.

[Blue_Lion]

I'm willing to give Palladium the benefit of the doubt here, and assume they wouldn't lie about that. Something happened to put the fear of litigation into them, and if that's the case, it only makes sense to servative about such matters.
----------

I would recommend removing all terminology from another IP and work on a mystic martial arts vs tech idea. You could use ninjas and super spies as an starting point and maybe add in super power energy explosion. That would give you your idea while preventing a thread from being shut down. (With all the chi blasting cartoons(could not spell the Japanese name for the life of me right now) and fighting games out there creating that would not violate any ones IP as long as you do not use there charters and names.)

Martial arts + hi-tech + magic has been done before, that's really nothing novel. What I want to do is explore the really awesome parallels between Rifts and Mortal Kombat specifically. Interdimensional travel, martial arts action, magic and tech clashing, bizarre alien races... this stuff is gold, and there are too many parallels to not want to explore the hell out of that. I don't want just some extradimensional realm with generic monsters, I want the Outworld and Goro's dragon-man race. I don't want some knock-off cyborg with military rank, I want Jax Briggs because he's one of my favorite characters from any property. And so on and so forth.

But I'll just explore the idea on other forums, or run such a game from the safety of my very own gaming table, where people won't yell "IP violation! IP violation!" at me. I'm here to share ideas, not ruffle feathers, so I will limit my topics of conversation here.

That's my takeaway from this, anyway.

You are correct you can not explore that mechanically on this forum. A quick search does show that others have researched or talked about how to do this and even mention which systems are best for it. Rifts mechanically does not support that type of charter creation.

This is a link to mortal kombat forums where they are discussing turning it into a table top RPG. Do not try a rifts conversion of their settings.
http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/conte ... ?id=150144

[Molydeus]

You are correct you can not explore that mechanically on this forum. A quick search does show that others have researched or talked about how to do this and even mention which systems are best for it. Rifts mechanically does not support that type of charter creation.

Well, Rifts mechanically doesn't support much, including good Rifts games. I have no intention to convert anything to the Palladium system, trust that. I'm just discussing a setting mashup, one I may explore in Savage Rifts (along with other crossovers).

This is a link to mortal kombat forums where they are discussing turning it into a table top RPG. Do not try a rifts conversion of their settings.
http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/conte ... ?id=150144

First, at my table, I do what I please. "Intellectual property" is just another way of saying "idea mine" for me. I just know not to discuss it here. Which I conceded, right in the text block you quoted. Did you have problems understanding what I wrote?

I appreciate the link, though. I may use some of the ideas in that discussion. Everything exists for my personal amusement and to give me cool ideas, after all.

[Blue_Lion]

What you do at your table is up to you. What happens on the forums is subject to the forum rules. I did not have problems understanding I recognized it and then provided options.

That is a rather self serving world view if it is truly what you think.

[Jefffar]

Could you guys stop agreeing so hard with each other? I'm worried this is going to turn into some kind of argument where you try to prove each other right.

[Molydeus]

What you do at your table is up to you.

Yup. Just like I said.

What happens on the forums is subject to the forum rules.

Yup. Just like I said.

I did not have problems understanding I recognized it and then provided options.

That is a rather self serving world view if it is truly what you think.

No, it's not. I find inspiration where I can. I find it in RPGs, video games, movies, comic books, real world history, religion, wherever I can. Then I take that inspiration an run with it, channeling it into what I write and the games I run. I'm not sure how this is a self-serving worldview, since I'm certainly not the only one who does it. It's intended as homage, not theft.

You should take inspiration where you find it, too, if you don't already.
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Could you guys stop agreeing so hard with each other? I'm worried this is going to turn into some kind of argument where you try to prove each other right.

I'd rather find points of commonality than argue, actually.

[Zer0 Kay]

Could you guys stop agreeing so hard with each other? I'm worried this is going to turn into some kind of argument where you try to prove each other right.

JERK. You made me laugh too hard. :'(

I'm having a hard time deciding if I wan't to sig that or not...

[Zer0 Kay]

I hate having to only be able to share ideas around a table. That was why a few years back some of us had made a forum to speak on that was only accessible by invitation otherwise nothing was viewable. I however have since lost the address, my login and password. Heck probably doesn't exist any more.

Kind of sucks, huh? Anyway, if you happen to dig up that info, let me know. I'd be interested in participating, assuming that forum exists anymore.

But I am a guest in Palladium's house here, and out of respect to my hosts, I will respect their rules. Again, I certainly didn't mean to cause any trouble by posting what I did.

Watch out for the mean Grandma while your staying in PB's house.