AI/Robots

[braetyn]

I have been reading and looking at the books, but have come to a question/thought experiment.

While machines/robots/AI/Androids/et al are not able to use magic, if they understand the principles and teaching requirements, could they walk someone through learning how to be a magic OCC? Like say a venerable old wizard had his mind downloaded into a fully mechanical body (this is just one of the many different kinds of scenarios where a machine/ai/robot/etc would have the knowledge but not the ability to cast magic) and wanted to teach someone else how to tap into and become a mage of some type.

From the things I have read the teacher doesn't seem to actually use his ability to manipulate PPE to teach the student in question, so theoretically, I was wondering what people think.

This in no way would have a magic casting robot/machine though, just races that are able to become magic OCC's learning from the mechanical being.

Thanks!

[Blue_Lion]

I have been reading and looking at the books, but have come to a question/thought experiment.

While machines/robots/AI/Androids/et al are not able to use magic, if they understand the principles and teaching requirements, could they walk someone through learning how to be a magic OCC? Like say a venerable old wizard had his mind downloaded into a fully mechanical body (this is just one of the many different kinds of scenarios where a machine/ai/robot/etc would have the knowledge but not the ability to cast magic) and wanted to teach someone else how to tap into and become a mage of some type.

From the things I have read the teacher doesn't seem to actually use his ability to manipulate PPE to teach the student in question, so theoretically, I was wondering what people think.

This in no way would have a magic casting robot/machine though, just races that are able to become magic OCC's learning from the mechanical being.

Thanks!

What you are talking about is not AI but transferred intelligence. I do not think it is possible to program a AI to understand magic as a mage does.

I would think the teacher needs to be able to feel the flow of magic to some degree to help check the student is on the right path.
So in my opinion it would not work any better than self taught magic from a book.

I would think a mage would be more likely to turn to magic or TW methods than archie 3 tech to preserve there life.
There are cases of mages transferring there soul in to constructs ie golems. There was one as a npc in tolkeen.

[braetyn]

Thanks for the reply. I debated a lot on putting any kind of example in as I was afraid the example would become a focus of the answer rather than just a "one of many off the top of my head" kind of deals. So for future answers, please ignore that part about the mage downloading his mind to something (as that really was never intended to be part of why it would or wouldn't work or why they would or wouldn't do it or anything like that or what the proper term for it is etc. Although discussions about why someone feels any given person would or wouldn't take a certain route is always fun to talk or think about).

Sounds like you are saying that without first hand knowledge of how the flow of magic works, which a machine would never have, they could never help someone learn. And the instructor has to be able to watch/feel what the student is doing with the magic to correct them, which machines can't do. That is a fair assumption, and as I had said in the orig post, I didn't see anything in the books where it actually says the instructor has to do anything like that so I was hoping that if I had missed it (or didn't have the book that said it) that would come up as well.

Again, thank you for the reply and thoughts!

I have been reading and looking at the books, but have come to a question/thought experiment.

While machines/robots/AI/Androids/et al are not able to use magic, if they understand the principles and teaching requirements, could they walk someone through learning how to be a magic OCC? Like say a venerable old wizard had his mind downloaded into a fully mechanical body (this is just one of the many different kinds of scenarios where a machine/ai/robot/etc would have the knowledge but not the ability to cast magic) and wanted to teach someone else how to tap into and become a mage of some type.

From the things I have read the teacher doesn't seem to actually use his ability to manipulate PPE to teach the student in question, so theoretically, I was wondering what people think.

This in no way would have a magic casting robot/machine though, just races that are able to become magic OCC's learning from the mechanical being.

Thanks!

What you are talking about is not AI but transferred intelligence. I do not think it is possible to program a AI to understand magic as a mage does.

I would think the teacher needs to be able to feel the flow of magic to some degree to help check the student is on the right path.
So in my opinion it would not work any better than self taught magic from a book.

I would think a mage would be more likely to turn to magic or TW methods than archie 3 tech to preserve there life.
There are cases of mages transferring there soul in to constructs ie golems. There was one as a npc in tolkeen.

[Blue_Lion]

Thanks for the reply. I debated a lot on putting any kind of example in as I was afraid the example would become a focus of the answer rather than just a "one of many off the top of my head" kind of deals. So for future answers, please ignore that part about the mage downloading his mind to something (as that really was never intended to be part of why it would or wouldn't work or why they would or wouldn't do it or anything like that or what the proper term for it is etc. Although discussions about why someone feels any given person would or wouldn't take a certain route is always fun to talk or think about).

Sounds like you are saying that without first hand knowledge of how the flow of magic works, which a machine would never have, they could never help someone learn. And the instructor has to be able to watch/feel what the student is doing with the magic to correct them, which machines can't do. That is a fair assumption, and as I had said in the orig post, I didn't see anything in the books where it actually says the instructor has to do anything like that so I was hoping that if I had missed it (or didn't have the book that said it) that would come up as well.

Again, thank you for the reply and thoughts!

I have been reading and looking at the books, but have come to a question/thought experiment.

While machines/robots/AI/Androids/et al are not able to use magic, if they understand the principles and teaching requirements, could they walk someone through learning how to be a magic OCC? Like say a venerable old wizard had his mind downloaded into a fully mechanical body (this is just one of the many different kinds of scenarios where a machine/ai/robot/etc would have the knowledge but not the ability to cast magic) and wanted to teach someone else how to tap into and become a mage of some type.

From the things I have read the teacher doesn't seem to actually use his ability to manipulate PPE to teach the student in question, so theoretically, I was wondering what people think.

This in no way would have a magic casting robot/machine though, just races that are able to become magic OCC's learning from the mechanical being.

Thanks!

What you are talking about is not AI but transferred intelligence. I do not think it is possible to program a AI to understand magic as a mage does.

I would think the teacher needs to be able to feel the flow of magic to some degree to help check the student is on the right path.
So in my opinion it would not work any better than self taught magic from a book.

I would think a mage would be more likely to turn to magic or TW methods than archie 3 tech to preserve there life.
There are cases of mages transferring there soul in to constructs ie golems. There was one as a npc in tolkeen.

Not that I think it would be completely useless just that it would be equal to learning from books alone. My opinion is the teacher bot would have no sensitivity to magical flow as robot. So would be hard to check on progress of a students control. That is my opinion and not something from a book.

(Note: check out source book 1, that has information on transferred intelligence it is a thing in rifts.)

[braetyn]

Seems that the consensus so far is that a mechanical entity is no better than a book.

Thank you

But why is transferred intelligence being singled out as not a "machine/robot" type? I know it wouldn't be considered an AI, but since it has been specifically pointed out as not being part of the overall category of "machine/robot/et al", or is it just that I made the poor decision to have added any kind of example to my question?

[guardiandashi]

Seems that the consensus so far is that a mechanical entity is no better than a book.

Thank you

But why is transferred intelligence being singled out as not a "machine/robot" type? I know it wouldn't be considered an AI, but since it has been specifically pointed out as not being part of the overall category of "machine/robot/et al", or is it just that I made the poor decision to have added any kind of example to my question?

regarding the transferred intelligence as a teacher.
the truth is it would be roughly like a star wars holocron as a teacher IMO as in yes its better than a book because it can intelligently tailor the information and training the student receives to what they are "ready for" and depending on your interpretation on how "magic" works I would actually give them some benefits over a book.
they may or may not be able to directly sense the magic flows, however based on observable effects they could definitely give some feedback on what the student is doing.

as far as why its not really a machine intelligence/ robot (AI) its because of the way the intelligence is created.

for all practical purposes a transferred intelligence is a kind of cyborg. its not the same mind you but its very similar.

cyborgs are when you cut away the flesh and replace it with "metal" metal in this sense being the cyber/ bionic replacements.

a transferred intelligence is where they take ALL the flesh and put the mind into a computer that happens to be the control for a machine body.

[say652]

I have been reading and looking at the books, but have come to a question/thought experiment.

While machines/robots/AI/Androids/et al are not able to use magic, if they understand the principles and teaching requirements, could they walk someone through learning how to be a magic OCC? Like say a venerable old wizard had his mind downloaded into a fully mechanical body (this is just one of the many different kinds of scenarios where a machine/ai/robot/etc would have the knowledge but not the ability to cast magic) and wanted to teach someone else how to tap into and become a mage of some type.

From the things I have read the teacher doesn't seem to actually use his ability to manipulate PPE to teach the student in question, so theoretically, I was wondering what people think.

This in no way would have a magic casting robot/machine though, just races that are able to become magic OCC's learning from the mechanical being.

Thanks!

Level 8 Earth Warlock Spell.
Transfer Essance.

This will allow a "Robot" to use magic but at a price.

The rules for a transferred intelligence are In source book 1.
-1/2 sip lose all but physical and sensitive psionic powers but magic isn't discussed.

[glitterboy2098]

Seems that the consensus so far is that a mechanical entity is no better than a book.

Thank you

But why is transferred intelligence being singled out as not a "machine/robot" type? I know it wouldn't be considered an AI, but since it has been specifically pointed out as not being part of the overall category of "machine/robot/et al", or is it just that I made the poor decision to have added any kind of example to my question?

in palladium settings a transferred intelligence isn't a copy of a person's mind, it is literally that person's soul moved to a new body. the resutling individual does not exist as software per say, instead being more of a 'spirit in the machine'. they even retain their PPE/ISP, and often any magic or psionic abilities they had.

so for the scenario your asking about, a transferred intelligence isn't a non-magic using AI for your purposes.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I have been reading and looking at the books, but have come to a question/thought experiment.

While machines/robots/AI/Androids/et al are not able to use magic, if they understand the principles and teaching requirements, could they walk someone through learning how to be a magic OCC? Like say a venerable old wizard had his mind downloaded into a fully mechanical body (this is just one of the many different kinds of scenarios where a machine/AI/robot/etc would have the knowledge but not the ability to cast magic) and wanted to teach someone else how to tap into and become a mage of some type.

From the things I have read the teacher doesn't seem to actually use his ability to manipulate PPE to teach the student in question, so theoretically, I was wondering what people think.

This in no way would have a magic casting robot/machine though, just races that are able to become magic OCC's learning from the mechanical being.

Thanks!

Talking about all the PB settings other then the HU setting.

Can a AI teach magic? Only in the abstract since of teaching. They can't produce examples of magic to show the students the magic they are trying to reproduce.

Transferred intel's….it depends on the way they were transferred. If just copied and uploaded then no, they can't make magic. If somehow the soul of the person was somehow bound to the AI core and in control of it, then they could make magic.

BL, the Original Post described is the equivalent to a copied mind, not a soul transfer.

braetyn…. no soul = no magic
Yes, this has been argued over and over again in many variations since 3G setting Book 1 Phase World can out. Because of the Machine People race/RCC.
----------------
In the HU setting the Aliens power cat. there an artificial person that is brought up in rebuttal.
There is no text about them not being able to do magic.
However, it Iiiiissss the HEROS UNLIMITED setting which canon text breaks many of the canon text of the other settings.
Then there is that the HU text are written in the style of loose guidelines, around which the char was made, instead of a char class (CC) that is specifically crafted template.

[braetyn]

Thanks for all the feedback, and I now see more of the nuanced differences that arise from the form of the mind, and possibly soul/lack thereof, motivating the entity in question.

[Killer Cyborg]

Seems that the consensus so far is that a mechanical entity is no better than a book.

I think it'd be better than a book, if it's a decent AI.
You can ask a Bot questions, and get answers.
Can't really do that with a book.

[eliakon]

Seems that the consensus so far is that a mechanical entity is no better than a book.

I think it'd be better than a book, if it's a decent AI.
You can ask a Bot questions, and get answers.
Can't really do that with a book.

A really good book with a (pardon the pun) Spell Checker, Help, and a self referencing index.
It would be extremely useful yes. And honestly I imagine that these are used in places like the UWW as part of the curriculum.

[RockJock]

I can see this going either way.

An AI who worked for decades with a mage, had conversations about how magic worked and so on would be better than a book to me. Almost a Jedi Holocron.

As for needing to be able to sense the flow of magic and all of that, I think it helps, but isn't required. I would let a Mage turned borg, or Undead Slayer help be a tutor, so why not an AI?

[taalismn]

[

A really good book with a (pardon the pun) Spell Checker, Help, and a self referencing index.

"Am I doing this right, Teacher?"
<<"Cast it, and let me see it.">>
"EnvuraKadis-"
#BLAM#
<<"You're doing it wrong.">>

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I have to say this is very interesting idea, an A.I. that becomes a Mage.
I wonder is that instances of this idea in comics or movies?

[Killer Cyborg]

I have to say this is very interesting idea, an A.I. that becomes a Mage.
I wonder is that instances of this idea in comics or movies?

In The Amber Chronicles, a Mage created a magical computer that ran on tarot cards.
It was essentially a Mage in its own right.
It didn't have a humanoid body, but it was an AI.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I have to say this is very interesting idea, an A.I. that becomes a Mage.
I wonder is that instances of this idea in comics or movies?

In The Amber Chronicles, a Mage created a magical computer that ran on tarot cards.
It was essentially a Mage in its own right.
It didn't have a humanoid body, but it was an AI.

Ok thanks KC,
I do find the idea of a Tech based AI becoming a Mage, a wonderful and challenging idea for a character. Perhaps a pre-rifts self learning prototype AI who sees magic as another form of energy to use and manipulate, and creating TW parts to help it. Maybe this is how TW is born. But some many ideas

[Blue_Lion]

I have to say this is very interesting idea, an A.I. that becomes a Mage.
I wonder is that instances of this idea in comics or movies?

In The Amber Chronicles, a Mage created a magical computer that ran on tarot cards.
It was essentially a Mage in its own right.
It didn't have a humanoid body, but it was an AI.

The Xanth novels had a magic computer that what ever it wrote happened. It had its own personalty.

[Library Ogre]

I would allow it as a background sort of thing. I'm actually reminded of the Myth books by Robert Lynn Aspirin... Aahz was not able to use magic due to a joke powder or something like that, but he was still able to train Skeeve in its use because he knew what it should look and feel like.

[Killer Cyborg]

I would allow it as a background sort of thing. I'm actually reminded of the Myth books by Robert Lynn Aspirin... Aahz was not able to use magic due to a joke powder or something like that, but he was still able to train Skeeve in its use because he knew what it should look and feel like.

Good comparison!

[taalismn]

I have to say this is very interesting idea, an A.I. that becomes a Mage.
I wonder is that instances of this idea in comics or movies?

In The Amber Chronicles, a Mage created a magical computer that ran on tarot cards.
It was essentially a Mage in its own right.
It didn't have a humanoid body, but it was an AI.

HEX, the computer of Unseen University in the DiscWorld series, had some limited magic-casting abilities. Though, given that it used some living organic components(ant colonies and beehives) , it could be argued that it was a cyborg in some aspects.