Who wants a Revisit and Update Mutants in Orbit?

[gaby]

I been thinking maybe it,s time revisit and Update Mutants in Orbit.
Making it into a pure Rifts book.

What do you think?

What would you changed?

What would you add?

[Zer0 Kay]

Already been gone over
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=149312

[gaby]

They can make the info in Rifter 56 canon.

[Glistam]

They can make the info in Rifter 56 canon.

Ugh, no thank you.

[eliakon]

I pure Rifts book would be a good idea personally. In the process of doing an update (Arkhon Retcon, I'm looking at you!) they could also deal with some other issues (the vast number of mutant animals for instance...good in theory but needs less species), cover the Rifts versions of the stations and ships in more detail. And maybe expand on things like the history of the post cataclysm space programs, or answer some of the questions like "why can't anyone see the stations from the ground" or "why can't/doesn't anyone just teleport into space since we know that That Is A Thing."
Doesn't have to be huge....something sourcebook sized not worldbook sized...

[drewkitty ~..~]

If just a revised edition of the MiO book.....no.

Splitting the book up into two books with one being updated to ATB2 standards and the other published after the MiO ATB2 update going to Rifts would be fine.


The MiO ATB2 revised could have the SDC spaceship const. text for building sub-light spaceships compatible with the AUGG starship const texts. Maybe even update the vehicle rules for ATB2 & HU2.

And with the Rifts one they can just do a rehash of a story based ships tables, but for sub-light spaceships. And the Arkon thing eli. mentioned.

[gaby]

Your Right it will be better if the Book was spilt into pure AtB and Rifts books.
every made in Rifts One will be Mdc.
With Sub-light Ship making Rules,Maybe a Spacer OCC and a list of civilians Jobs they can take with specific skills.
Maybe make Mars spilt into different city states,so ther different then the AtB,s one.

[Riftmaker]

I'd love update on mutants in orbit. MARS would be a great survival setting.

[Nightmask]

I'd love update on mutants in orbit. MARS would be a great survival setting.

Minus the killer insects. I swear the only reason that that was tossed in was to remove Mars as a viable colony location because even in the original version of the Mutants In Orbit setting the tech that they had would have provided for a flourishing civilization but would have basically left people likely to favor that over a space-based setting so they basically made Mars too dangerous supposedly to set up shop on (just like they made it impossible to send a ship down to Earth and return to space).

[Riftmaker]

I'd love update on mutants in orbit. MARS would be a great survival setting.

Minus the killer insects. I swear the only reason that that was tossed in was to remove Mars as a viable colony location because even in the original version of the Mutants In Orbit setting the tech that they had would have provided for a flourishing civilization but would have basically left people likely to favor that over a space-based setting so they basically made Mars too dangerous supposedly to set up shop on (just like they made it impossible to send a ship down to Earth and return to space).

Naaa leave the bugs. Let the players take back the planet over a long campaign.

[eliakon]

I'd love update on mutants in orbit. MARS would be a great survival setting.

Minus the killer insects. I swear the only reason that that was tossed in was to remove Mars as a viable colony location because even in the original version of the Mutants In Orbit setting the tech that they had would have provided for a flourishing civilization but would have basically left people likely to favor that over a space-based setting so they basically made Mars too dangerous supposedly to set up shop on (just like they made it impossible to send a ship down to Earth and return to space).

Naaa leave the bugs. Let the players take back the planet over a long campaign.

Or more likely a really short one.
As far as I can tell the real reason the Orbitals don't take mars is that only the Lunars are still gravity adapted for it, and they don't (officially) want it...yet.
It would be ludicrously simple for the Orbitals to take Mars, and forces from Earth would find the exercise trivial. Especially if they had access to magic.

[Riftmaker]

True enough if magics involved. Thing is the orbit people would need to bomb the place from orbit to clean out the bugs the easy way. That might set the terraforming back even with the lay lines.

[eliakon]

True enough if magics involved. Thing is the orbit people would need to bomb the place from orbit to clean out the bugs the easy way. That might set the terraforming back even with the lay lines.

Nah, send in some combat robots, possibly armed with short half life tailored chemical weapons.
Most of the bugs aren't intelligent enough to provide much of a challenge to a moderately well programed combat drone. Let alone a couple hundred of them all synchronized via radio into a single cohesive unit.
And since none of them can hope to use stuff like radio jammers, sensor masking, gas masks, environmental armor or any of the other equipment that is needed for survival on the modern hyper tech battle field....

[glitterboy2098]

in my notes for how i'd revise the setting, the bugs (which would get a bit of rewrite) were part of the terraforming program.. engineered creatures designed to help reshape the planet on both a physical and a chemical level. self reproducing so that they could be seeded and spread to make the terraforming happen faster. (the carnivores existing as a checks and balances system)

only things went wrong, the bugsreacted badly to the magic surge of the catclysm, and made the planet dangerous. then later the arkhons arrived.

[drewkitty ~..~]

What I would not want is for PB to only redo the Rifts space MiO and not even touch redoing the ATB MiO.

[Riftmaker]

True enough if magics involved. Thing is the orbit people would need to bomb the place from orbit to clean out the bugs the easy way. That might set the terraforming back even with the lay lines.

Nah, send in some combat robots, possibly armed with short half life tailored chemical weapons.
Most of the bugs aren't intelligent enough to provide much of a challenge to a moderately well programed combat drone. Let alone a couple hundred of them all synchronized via radio into a single cohesive unit.
And since none of them can hope to use stuff like radio jammers, sensor masking, gas masks, environmental armor or any of the other equipment that is needed for survival on the modern hyper tech battle field....

That all depends on how much of an effort the space people can throw at this. With the constant standoff between the powers, and them barely getting by I don't see some massive armada being sent. Mutants in orbit even by rifts standards is only just scraping by.

[eliakon]

True enough if magics involved. Thing is the orbit people would need to bomb the place from orbit to clean out the bugs the easy way. That might set the terraforming back even with the lay lines.

Nah, send in some combat robots, possibly armed with short half life tailored chemical weapons.
Most of the bugs aren't intelligent enough to provide much of a challenge to a moderately well programed combat drone. Let alone a couple hundred of them all synchronized via radio into a single cohesive unit.
And since none of them can hope to use stuff like radio jammers, sensor masking, gas masks, environmental armor or any of the other equipment that is needed for survival on the modern hyper tech battle field....

That all depends on how much of an effort the space people can throw at this. With the constant standoff between the powers, and them barely getting by I don't see some massive armada being sent. Mutants in orbit even by rifts standards is only just scraping by.

If Mars is being colonized its going to be either a joint venture by everyone, or by no one. No one is going to just sit idly by and let one faction get that sort of massive power base. That and this is a planetary colony not some pc tomb run. I am assuming that an operation to colonize an entire planet will, indeed actually have some resources. Yeah a couple of PCs trying to do it on their own on the sly will get slaughtered. But a full on governmental operation is going to just slaughter the bugs in short order.
There is a reason that many games I have been in/run end up with Tolkeen just moving to Mars....

[Riftmaker]

True enough if magics involved. Thing is the orbit people would need to bomb the place from orbit to clean out the bugs the easy way. That might set the terraforming back even with the lay lines.

Nah, send in some combat robots, possibly armed with short half life tailored chemical weapons.
Most of the bugs aren't intelligent enough to provide much of a challenge to a moderately well programed combat drone. Let alone a couple hundred of them all synchronized via radio into a single cohesive unit.
And since none of them can hope to use stuff like radio jammers, sensor masking, gas masks, environmental armor or any of the other equipment that is needed for survival on the modern hyper tech battle field....

That all depends on how much of an effort the space people can throw at this. With the constant standoff between the powers, and them barely getting by I don't see some massive armada being sent. Mutants in orbit even by rifts standards is only just scraping by.

If Mars is being colonized its going to be either a joint venture by everyone, or by no one. No one is going to just sit idly by and let one faction get that sort of massive power base. That and this is a planetary colony not some pc tomb run. I am assuming that an operation to colonize an entire planet will, indeed actually have some resources. Yeah a couple of PCs trying to do it on their own on the sly will get slaughtered. But a full on governmental operation is going to just slaughter the bugs in short order.
There is a reason that many games I have been in/run end up with Tolkeen just moving to Mars....

Granted the bugs done really have much going for them but numbers and being MDC creatures. I just don't see the orbital community coming together for that reason. Something else would need to unite them.

[Proseksword]

in my notes for how i'd revise the setting, the bugs (which would get a bit of rewrite) were part of the terraforming program.. engineered creatures designed to help reshape the planet on both a physical and a chemical level. self reproducing so that they could be seeded and spread to make the terraforming happen faster. (the carnivores existing as a checks and balances system)

only things went wrong, the bugsreacted badly to the magic surge of the catclysm, and made the planet dangerous.

So, Terraformars, basically.

[Nightmask]

True enough if magics involved. Thing is the orbit people would need to bomb the place from orbit to clean out the bugs the easy way. That might set the terraforming back even with the lay lines.

Not really, when your 'bombs' are ice asteroids. You just pull a Colony Drop which simultaneously kills everything (i.e. all the bugs) after impact and provides large quantities of ice that will sublimate and melt providing for a denser moister-laden atmosphere. Once the dust settles (or perhaps even before depending on how much trouble it causes on the other side of the planet) you can move in and clean things up and start setting up shop.

[Nightmask]

I'd love update on mutants in orbit. MARS would be a great survival setting.

Minus the killer insects. I swear the only reason that that was tossed in was to remove Mars as a viable colony location because even in the original version of the Mutants In Orbit setting the tech that they had would have provided for a flourishing civilization but would have basically left people likely to favor that over a space-based setting so they basically made Mars too dangerous supposedly to set up shop on (just like they made it impossible to send a ship down to Earth and return to space).

Naaa leave the bugs. Let the players take back the planet over a long campaign.

Or more likely a really short one.
As far as I can tell the real reason the Orbitals don't take mars is that only the Lunars are still gravity adapted for it, and they don't (officially) want it...yet.
It would be ludicrously simple for the Orbitals to take Mars, and forces from Earth would find the exercise trivial. Especially if they had access to magic.

Uh no, the Moon colony is explicitly NOT adapted to handle that kind of gravity, it's the occupants of the stations that maintain a simulated 1g that would be adapted to handling Mars. The Moon Colony wouldn't be able to handle it, not without severe problems anyway.

[Riftmaker]

Leys all take a moment to realize this debate is proof that yes some of us would like more of the mutants in orbit setting.

[eliakon]

I'd love update on mutants in orbit. MARS would be a great survival setting.

Minus the killer insects. I swear the only reason that that was tossed in was to remove Mars as a viable colony location because even in the original version of the Mutants In Orbit setting the tech that they had would have provided for a flourishing civilization but would have basically left people likely to favor that over a space-based setting so they basically made Mars too dangerous supposedly to set up shop on (just like they made it impossible to send a ship down to Earth and return to space).

Naaa leave the bugs. Let the players take back the planet over a long campaign.

Or more likely a really short one.
As far as I can tell the real reason the Orbitals don't take mars is that only the Lunars are still gravity adapted for it, and they don't (officially) want it...yet.
It would be ludicrously simple for the Orbitals to take Mars, and forces from Earth would find the exercise trivial. Especially if they had access to magic.

Uh no, the Moon colony is explicitly NOT adapted to handle that kind of gravity, it's the occupants of the stations that maintain a simulated 1g that would be adapted to handling Mars. The Moon Colony wouldn't be able to handle it, not without severe problems anyway.

Meh, okay so I made a mistake. *shrugs* I remembered one faction could live in gravity and one couldn't. Either way...
So its the spacers...great, its still going to be either an organized unified effort by ALL the stations which will thus by definition pretty much have all the resources needed....or its not going to happen. (well I guess it could be the last survivors of a space war looking for someplace to live now that they have blown up all their stations or something....but yeah)

[gaby]

Well in my game,by 2060 a matrial is discover that is key element to Gravity shifing tech,not ture Artificial gravity the tech reduce or amplifs gravity pull on a person or object,on the Moon it wokr with natrual Moon gravity to make it equivalent of earth,s and on ships it the same as the Moon without it..
It why my characters can go on Earth or Mars.
That how,I do it.

What do you do?

I hope Palladium books will spit MiO into two.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As far as I can tell the real reason the Orbitals don't take mars is that only the Lunars are still gravity adapted for it, and they don't (officially) want it...yet.
It would be ludicrously simple for the Orbitals to take Mars, and forces from Earth would find the exercise trivial. Especially if they had access to magic.

Uh no, the Moon colony is explicitly NOT adapted to handle that kind of gravity, it's the occupants of the stations that maintain a simulated 1g that would be adapted to handling Mars. The Moon Colony wouldn't be able to handle it, not without severe problems anyway.

Eli has a point that the Moon's peoples are more in tune with living 'on a planet' then those living on the stations. So while the Lunies have plantetery life (even it is a hostile enviroment) bred into their thinking & culture. Where the inverce is true with the Stationers having plantiary life bred out of their thinking, & out of their culture.
So you could think of it as a cultural Point of View that can be a blind spot in that culture's ability to think about things.

This is just like how different cultures in the here and now have their own cultural PoV and have their own cultural blind spots.

[Riftmaker]

As far as I can tell the real reason the Orbitals don't take mars is that only the Lunars are still gravity adapted for it, and they don't (officially) want it...yet.
It would be ludicrously simple for the Orbitals to take Mars, and forces from Earth would find the exercise trivial. Especially if they had access to magic.

Uh no, the Moon colony is explicitly NOT adapted to handle that kind of gravity, it's the occupants of the stations that maintain a simulated 1g that would be adapted to handling Mars. The Moon Colony wouldn't be able to handle it, not without severe problems anyway.

Eli has a point that the Moon's peoples are more in tune with living 'on a planet' then those living on the stations. So while the Lunies have plantetery life (even it is a hostile enviroment) bred into their thinking & culture. Where the inverce is true with the Stationers having plantiary life bred out of their thinking, & out of their culture.
So you could think of it as a cultural Point of View that can be a blind spot in that culture's ability to think about things.

This is just like how different cultures in the here and now have their own cultural PoV and have their own cultural blind spots.

Yes but if you use the rifter 56 info gravity plating is a reality, and the moon colony is raising its next generation in such a way as not to limit them to micro gravity (or no gravity) in the future. The boards been upset, and the old game altered forever. Now is the time to make long-term plans.

The fact is for all the lives and resources that would need to be spent to take mars and wipe out the bugs, it is vastly closer then the astroid belt and outer planets. It's a resource the orbital community can't afford to ignore in the long run.

[gaby]

you got a point ther.

[gaby]

The Info in Rifter 56 can become Canon.

The Mutant animals will be limited to most usefull in Space.
Taking out all the After the Bomb,s stuff will make more Room for detail on the stations,The Moon,Mars and else where.

[Gamer]

More like a total reboot than a revisit, it has some decent potential don't waste it with a bad recycle.

[gaby]

Ok that would wokr too.

Do you think Palladium books will do it?

[jaymz]

I had worked on a Rifts Space manuscript....then lost everything in a computer crash....

Rifter 56 to me actually causes more issues than fixes.

Also the space stations after 300 years, I would like to think would have "evolved" a bit more along the lines of the the "nations" on earth. It seems when reading MiO that they have done next to zero to advance themselves. They were built to be relatively self sufficient yet they seem to be barely capable of survival in many ways. That is where the biggest rewrites are needed.

Orbitals
Lunars
Arkhons.

Arkhons are on Mars as per canon.

So taking all we have (and I am sorry the article in Rifter 56 just doesn't work for me and most others I've discussed it with) we have more than enough to do a series of splat books. One books for each "colony", one book for the Arkhons on Mars, and a book as an overall "setting".

[jaymz]

Ok that would wokr too.

Do you think Palladium books will do it?

No. They have demonstrated zero interest in this as far as I have ever seen.

[gaby]

thers always hope.

[Riftmaker]

thers always hope.

Keep sending in rifter submissions

[Gamer]

There's a lot to cover Gaby.
First is Mutant in orbit going to be used or tossed out the window?
If it's used there are things in the book thatwill effect the entire megaverse.
It's been about 24 years since publishing that's a lot of material to affect.

[jaymz]

Actually if done right it wouldn't affect all that much.

[jaymz]

What the hell. The only canon references for Rifts "Space" that I know of are MiO, a blurb in SA2 about the Arkhons and some stuff in Aftermath.

ANYONE else know of any canon sources (no that Rifter article, which I am sorry, never really felt right to me, is not canon) ?

I'll start compiling what Rifts info there is and go from there and see where I get.

[Tiree]

I believe the stuff that references ARCHIE III does as well. He's utilizing some satellites up in orbit for communication. But I can't remember if that is Canon or Rifter material as well.

[jaymz]

The article you speak of is official/canon material and I THINK is validated in the revised SB1. Thx, forgot about that.

[Gamer]

It became canon in Aftermath pg84.

[jaymz]

Yeah I knew there was stuff in Aftermath....been a while, Pretty sure the original article was canon from the get go though...regardless it is validated

[drewkitty ~..~]

The problem is that unless there is text that says the whole of a rifter article is official, any text that talks about simmiler ideas in published canon does not say that the optional text is canon. It only means that what was published in a canon book is canon.

[jaymz]

The Article is official

Rifts: A.R.C.H.I.E. Three vs The World - - 64 <OFFICIAL>

That is from the Rifter index on the forums here.

And checking the actual issue it says official in the book too.

[eliakon]

Yes the Rifter 64 Article is official, the Rifter 56 article is not official.

[jaymz]

That is page 64 of Rifter 4

[Nox Equites]

You could justify more casters existing in space after the Arkhon invasion shows that there is something up there. There are spells that let you last quite awhile if you don't have air. Steal ideas from Aliens Unlimited and PW for monsters.

[Riftmaker]

You could justify more casters existing in space after the Arkhon invasion shows that there is something up there. There are spells that let you last quite awhile if you don't have air. Steal ideas from Aliens Unlimited and PW for monsters.

Techno-wizardry could transform life in orbit. I've wanted to do a campaign for mars for a long time now.

[gaby]

Who dos it hurt if Palladium books pic to remake Mutants in Obrit as pure Rifts?
They did it with Rifts Soucebook 1 and Vampire kingdom,Why would this One be so Hard for them.

[Gamer]

They have made leylines out in space canon but they have yet to come out and say that planets cross them during the solstices and such (Which makes perfect sense for them to do so )
once that cat is let out of the bag you have no end of mages or any other leyline using being going from earth to orbit and beyond and no real way for the orbitals to stop them.

[eliakon]

They have made leylines out in space canon but they have yet to come out and say that planets cross them during the solstices and such (Which makes perfect sense for them to do so )
once that cat is let out of the bag you have no end of mages or any other leyline using being going from earth to orbit and beyond and no real way for the orbitals to stop them.

Since the flares are specifically for times of power and include such things as Noon, Dawn, Midnight. This and the fact that it is only available for a few minutes and based on where you can see the specific event, what would be a minor planetary alignment (x10) would be a major planetary alignment (x30) in another. This pretty much means that what ever it is that causes the increase in ley line power it is not because the earth is moving through some space ley line.

But honestly there is no way to stop mages from getting into space anyway. Use a good telescope to see where you want to go. Then use Dimensional Portal to open a rift there.