Who wants a Revisit and Update Mutants in Orbit?

[Zer0 Kay]

Since you can't be bothered to read the books, here this is just some from Dimension book 6
pg17
A Magic Nebula can be either a dark or luminous nebula, but within it lays a series of ley lines and nexuses.

pg 20
5. Ley line storms. Networks of ley lines are known to crisscross through expanses, and with ley lines come the chance of
running into a ley line storm or even an enormous dimensional Rift!

pg 21
The travelers come upon a series of cosmic ley lines. They appear and disappear at random and will cover an
area that takes 1D4 days to cross. For every 1D6+6 hours in this area there is a 01-45% chance of a ley line storm.

pg 64
It seems that the largest stars are on the outer edge are not stars but rather, giant Rifts surging with magical energy. The four points seem to form a three dimensional triangle! Surging along the ley lines are immense cosmic storms.

pg 70
The Elemental Lands are a collapsed orange star that formed a plasma field. Within the plasma field are a series of ley lines that intersect to form some rather large nexus points.

pg 71
The Harkon Rift

two tidbits from Dimension book 5
pg 21
entire planetary deaths could send massive P.P.E. surges into the galactic nethersphere, where they might very well channel into the various ley lines connecting certain stars together.

pg 21
preventing evildoers and villains from taking advantage of this turbulent environment, to monitoring the galaxy’s ley line network


I do not have to furnish any information to you regarding something YOU and yourself alone presented as fact.
I merely presented the fact there are ley lines in space and i do believe i have now furnished far more references than should be needed for that as well.

Okay so there are a few locations that have Ley Lines....
....in fact they seem to be so rare that they need to be called out as being present....
.....And of course there is the little fact that as I said the Elves were able to map every Ley Line in the Galaxy in a matter of years.

So yeah....That does not sound like any sort of interconnected system that connects every star.....


Also I believe you may be unaware of how debate works. There is something called "Citing ones sources" it means that when some one says "prove your claim" that you be able to, well, prove your claim.
I.e. if you want to make the affirmative claim that there are ley lines in every system, and that they are so common as to be able to influence planets (even though they are listed as being weaker then planetary lines, not stronger) then it is YOUR burden of proof to provide evidence to back up your claim. It is not my job to sift through several dozen books looking for your evidence for you.
This is why, when you ask me to back up my claim I went and got a quote from a book that backs up my claim.
I didn't try to ridicule or insult the other person (Ad Hominem attacks prove nothing) nor did I tell you "its in there go find it yourself."

If I recall they do say every planet has X number Langer points that are nexus points in space but only Y are usable. It is under the UWW space station in fleets.
To me that does imply that every planet is connected to a larger network.

They did say cosmic networks of ley lines that take 1d4 days to cross are rare and form at random. Makes me wonder how they can have an accurate map of every ley line if they change or form at random. The star elves may have a map of the space ley line network but it can not be every line as it says networks can form and go away in space. Perhaps what they have are the persistant ley lines that can be used for travel, but the network as a whole can change.

Depending on how they mapped them out a interconnected network could be easier to map. If they used a sensor that could track a ley lines length and all lines attached to it, a interconnected network would be easier to map than a broken series of ley lines that have nexus at every planet as that requires visiting every planet.

Five lagrange points between any two massive stellar bodies only L4 and L5 are stable. Stating that lagrange points show a connection and thereby imply a network is saying that gravity is a leyline. That be like saying that the gauss field of the Earth produces leylines as both magnetism and gravity are forces. Whats next? High Voltage Powerlines constructed by humans made leylines that exist even after the powerlines and applied electrical force went away?

As for the mapping all leylines and the leylines that form and dissapear. Maybe they are in flux and always appear there but based on weird things like when planet x in galaxy 549 is in the house of capricorn or when aligned with planet e in galaxy 34w when in the house of cancer. Just because we as gamers and the characters will never see that leyline again doesn't mean that it isn't a constant there every 211 years.

[Zer0 Kay]

And remember...
...a team of highly trained experts studying gravity theory in the hopes of cracking FTL might have two or three doctorates each...
...but that doesn't mean that they have the right doctorates for the job.
If your trying to build a fabricator to built the basic parts for the life support systems then a bunch of eggheads in exotic branches of advanced theoretical physics are not going to be much help.

Exactly!

4 doesn't describe the killer sats going off.. instead it describes massive solar storms and radiation, causing space station systems to crash, 32% of the sattelites going offline, and 5% of the CAN moonbase to die.

given that the moonbase is underground, in one of the best places to survive solar storms (Flares and Coronal Mass Ejections), the fact they lost 5% of their population means that yeah, the stations probably lost a lot more, since they'd have much less shielding than the moon bases dozens or hundreds of meters of regolith, and their lifesupport failing and the like would just compound the issue. you'd get radiation poisoning, as well as the lifesupport related stuff.

32% going offline leaves 68% still functioning. Those functioning satellites could do what Mutants in Orbit page 57 says. That the military satellites interpreted what was going on as an attack and responded as programed attacking targets in space and on the surface. It also says that the satellites created the debris ring and that most killer satellites ended up destroying themselves.

And while the moon base lost 5% of the population during the disaster (Thank you for the number) Chaos Earth pg 15 says that after thousands took their lives in pain and despair. Mutants in Orbit pg 57 says that 20% of the surviving orbital population killed themselves that night and that another 10% died to apathy and that suicide was a daily occurrence. That's 30% of the post disaster population. Not including the 20% who died of injury and radiation. I don't see anything in either book that contradicts each other. Lots of people died during and after the disaster. Then the stations slowly rebuilt with the moon base was better off do to their location.

And don't forget that they lost the Shino-Japanese station.
The largest station in orbit
They had four stations (Laika, Euro, Freedom and Sino) and they lost the largest one!
That is better than 25% casualties right there.
so lets just say that there were 100 people in orbit (absurd I know, but it makes a wonderful 100% so...)
The station goes your down to something like 70
then the stations lose say 20%?
Now your down to 56
After the suicides that number is down to something like 39.2

That would mean that your looking at somewhere around what? 40% AT BEST of original population surviving.
A population that was never meant to be self sustaining in the first place
You just lost 60% of everyone... 60% of your engineers, 60% of your mechanics...
...and some of your people are tourists.
And remember that there is a sizeable mutant animal population, a population that there is NO evidence of being treated as citizens before the CotR and that thus were utterly unlikely to be trained as anything but manual labor and experiment fodder. Which further dilutes your pool of experts and trained personnel.

And of course there is the problem that technology isn't universally compatible. You have multiple hostile countries...
...there is no WAY that the tech on Laika station was originally compatible with the stuff on Freedom station for example.
So in addition to rebuilding you are also having to cobble up a new joint standard. As you go. On live operating gear that you can't turn off with out killing everyone.

Where the heck did it mention tourists? And if it does they're invulnerable, just look it up in the Rifter 9 1/2.

Tech... Russian, American... they're all made in China.

All that being said, they are obviously self sustaining or with little help as they survived for 300 years without having to come back down to Earth (at least that we know of). So self sustenance aside we don't hear of further breakdowns as the years go on but rather stuff being brought back on line. The parts of the stations that are still not repaired are likely portions deemed unnecessary. Even if the mutant animal population were only trained for manual labor they'd still have been trained to read so they could follow the technical orders. In 300 years they would have been forced to develop a training program which is evident by the OCCs.

So then all that background stuff... population. With just two survivors and each female having 8 children in 556 years they'd reach 7 Billion. That takes into account deaths caused by inbreeding deformities as well as aging, BUT also assumes our current terrestrial infrastructure which the orbitals wouldn't have. Point being they'd be able to repopulate the stations and the moon and put up a fight for mars and have enough issues to be looking at expanding further out into the solar system or even making Earthfall.

[gaby]

Sol System need to Balkanized,between the Moon,Stations and Mars.
You can add Stranded Aliens.

[gaby]

I still Hope they make it.