Sourcebook 6

[Tor]

Will Palladium ever assign this number to one of the existing sourcebooks for Rifts, or do you think it is holding it in reserve for a future sourcebook?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Will Palladium ever assign this number to one of the existing sourcebooks for Rifts, or do you think it is holding it in reserve for a future sourcebook?

It dosn't have a sourcebook 5, either. At some point they stopped numbering them and just titled the sourcebooks for what they contain. considering they are generally irrelevent of chronology it works fine"

[drewkitty ~..~]

The rifts source books have never been consistent. there are several that have no number.
mercs, RBM, <that one based off the Rifter comic>

[Tor]

It dosn't have a sourcebook 5, either.

This is "Rifts Vampires" according to advertisements on the back of Black Market, Lemuria and VKrevised.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It dosn't have a sourcebook 5, either.

This is "Rifts Vampires" according to advertisements on the back of Black Market, Lemuria and VKrevised.

It may have been advertised as such, but they clearly decided not to do that when actually publishing it.

[eliakon]

It dosn't have a sourcebook 5, either.

This is "Rifts Vampires" according to advertisements on the back of Black Market, Lemuria and VKrevised.

It may have been advertised as such, but they clearly decided not to do that when actually publishing it.

Especially since Black Market and Shemeridan Nation are also source books.....that would be saying that the sourcebook between 4 and this one says that this one is 5.....so are those 4.1 and 4.2?
I just have them 1,2,3,4,<Date of Publication> on my book shelf to be honest.

[Tor]

It may have been advertised as such, but they clearly decided not to do that when actually publishing it.

It being absent on the cover doesn't matter, they advertised the current cover which didn't specify 5th while still calling it 5th.

[eliakon]

It may have been advertised as such, but they clearly decided not to do that when actually publishing it.

It being absent on the cover doesn't matter, they advertised the current cover which didn't specify 5th while still calling it 5th.

So you can call it the 5th book, no one will stop you.
That doesn't mean that it is the 5th book, just that at one time it was going to be the 5th book.

[Tor]

Until something else gets called that, it has monopolized the title.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Until something else gets called that, it has monopolized the title.

Only in your own mind

[Tor]

Is anything else referred to as a sourcebook 5 in any official Palladium publication?

[eliakon]

Is anything else referred to as a sourcebook 5 in any official Palladium publication?

Since there isn't any official publication (other than a couple of ads) that ever referred to anything as Sourcebook 5......

[Tor]

3 laminated color ads, canon is canon.

That said, I'll specify "Rifts Sourcebook Five" due to https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... Earth.html also existing. We should probably do that for the first dozen Rifts World Books as well although I'm prone to dropping them and forgetting that PF/NB have WBs too.

I did notice an E-Bay add referring to Shemarrian Nation as 'sourcebook 5': http://www.ebay.com/itm/Palladium-Rifts ... Swo0JWMuQP

Could've sworn I remember someone calling the Bionics Sourcebook as 5 too.

But in either case I haven't found multiple instances of official canonical cover data to support the claims like this.

[eliakon]

3 laminated color ads, canon is canon.

I would be fascinated to see where "Ads are canon" comes from....

[Tor]

Advertisements are descriptions of books' contents, just as books' contents are. "Internal pages are canon" has some mysterious source that 'covers are canon' or 'ads are canon' doesn't?

[eliakon]

Advertisements are descriptions of books' contents, just as books' contents are. "Internal pages are canon" has some mysterious source that 'covers are canon' or 'ads are canon' doesn't?

Since the material in the books is often different than the advertisement, and since things that have been advertised have been canceled....
I would stick to the "Canon is what has been actually printed in a rule book" rather than trying to interpret it as "anything that has ever been produced by Palladium Books"
And the "Is Art Canon?" question has been debated several times as well, but I don't know if it would be appropriate to do so here, again as it would likely be a non-topical threadjack.

[Tor]

As OP, I don't mind if you bring it up, and do not consider it jacking.

If it were a case of the cover being changed I'd probably agree, but it called it SB5 even when advertising that cover which did not display it.

This established it was acceptable to call it that even if the cover didn't display it.

Kind of like how "Sedition" didn't appear on the cover of the first SoT book and you had to look inside to see it.

[eliakon]

As OP, I don't mind if you bring it up, and do not consider it jacking.

If it were a case of the cover being changed I'd probably agree, but it called it SB5 even when advertising that cover which did not display it.

This established it was acceptable to call it that even if the cover didn't display it.

Kind of like how "Sedition" didn't appear on the cover of the first SoT book and you had to look inside to see it.

First off....where are these ads supposed to be?
And second these canon ads are the same ones that tell us that the next book in the pipe is some book that never materializes: Rifts Scotland, Rifts Lazlo, Rifts Zulu Nation, Rifts Australia Two, Rifts Japan Two, Into the Dreamtime, Rifts Cyber-Knights, Rifts Dimension Book: The Grand Paladins, Tome Grotesque, Old Kingdom Mountains, Old Kingdom Lowlands, Phi & Lopan, Wolfen Wars, Land of the Damned 3, Mysteries of Magic 2, Tribes of the Moon, In the Deepness of Night, Anarchy Unlimited, Hardware Unlimited, The Nursery,
Delpineous' Guide to the Megaverse, Systems Failure Sourcebook, Mechanoid Space, Recon Modern Combat, Alien Conspiracy....

We know that these all have been canceled or pushed back (potentially indefinitely)
The ads are always promising things that never happen, or hyping a project under one name (Sentinel City, The Magic of Russia,) and then a different one (Century City, Mystic Russia), or a modified one (Rifts Cyber-Knights became Siege on Tolkeen 5 Cyber-Knights). *shrugs* It happens, this is why the ads are considered 'speculative' or 'what is desired to be' not a rock solid examination of What Is.

[Tor]

The rear covers of Black Market, Lemuria, and Revised Vampire Kingdoms.

these canon ads are the same ones that tell us that the next book in the pipe is some book that never materializes: Rifts Scotland, Rifts Lazlo, Rifts Zulu Nation, Rifts Australia Two, Rifts Japan Two, Into the Dreamtime, Rifts Cyber-Knights, Rifts Dimension Book: The Grand Paladins, Tome Grotesque, Old Kingdom Mountains, Old Kingdom Lowlands, Phi & Lopan, Wolfen Wars, Land of the Damned 3, Mysteries of Magic 2, Tribes of the Moon, In the Deepness of Night, Anarchy Unlimited, Hardware Unlimited, The Nursery,
Delpineous' Guide to the Megaverse, Systems Failure Sourcebook, Mechanoid Space, Recon Modern Combat, Alien Conspiracy....

Canonically speaking these are still upcoming Later statements cancelling them are probably found as some kind of online announcement holding less authority than printed materials.

Plus there's been no printed retraction stating 'this is not sourcebook 5' that I've seen.

[eliakon]

The rear covers of Black Market, Lemuria, and Revised Vampire Kingdoms.

these canon ads are the same ones that tell us that the next book in the pipe is some book that never materializes: Rifts Scotland, Rifts Lazlo, Rifts Zulu Nation, Rifts Australia Two, Rifts Japan Two, Into the Dreamtime, Rifts Cyber-Knights, Rifts Dimension Book: The Grand Paladins, Tome Grotesque, Old Kingdom Mountains, Old Kingdom Lowlands, Phi & Lopan, Wolfen Wars, Land of the Damned 3, Mysteries of Magic 2, Tribes of the Moon, In the Deepness of Night, Anarchy Unlimited, Hardware Unlimited, The Nursery,
Delpineous' Guide to the Megaverse, Systems Failure Sourcebook, Mechanoid Space, Recon Modern Combat, Alien Conspiracy....

Canonically speaking these are still upcoming Later statements cancelling them are probably found as some kind of online announcement holding less authority than printed materials.

Plus there's been no printed retraction stating 'this is not sourcebook 5' that I've seen.

That's the point. Mystic Russia was advertised as Magic Russia. But when it was released....different title.
Sort of the whole reason that we don't figure something is actually something until it is printed.
When the book is printed, then it becomes officially whatever it is printed as. Until then it is in some nebulous state of being readable only by Schrödinger's cats.
Especially since technically Rifts Sourcebook 5: Vampires has never been published, just the differently titled Rifts Vampire Sourcebook.
(if we are being hyper literal here...)
Guess they love vampires so much that they need two sourcebooks on the subject

[Tor]

Right, and Rifts Vampires was also called "Vampire Sourcebook". The thing is, the title wasn't changed, they just don't always include full titles on the covers. 'Sedition' being absent on SoT1 cover and 'Sourcebook 5' being absent on RV cover don't matter.

The title wasn't changed because the final 'Rifts Vampires' cover was already completed and they were using 'sourcebook 5' to advertise it.

Had it been advertised as sourcebook 5 prior to the final cover I might see your point, but they kept SB5 in ads after the final cover was developed, and listed SB5 next to the cover.

[eliakon]

Right, and Rifts Vampires was also called "Vampire Sourcebook". The thing is, the title wasn't changed, they just don't always include full titles on the covers. 'Sedition' being absent on SoT1 cover and 'Sourcebook 5' being absent on RV cover don't matter.

The title wasn't changed because the final 'Rifts Vampires' cover was already completed and they were using 'sourcebook 5' to advertise it.

Had it been advertised as sourcebook 5 prior to the final cover I might see your point, but they kept SB5 in ads after the final cover was developed, and listed SB5 next to the cover.

Hmmmmmm
So what your saying is that "the exact wording matters......except where it doesn't" got it.

[Tor]

No, that isn't what I'm saying. There has simply been no development since the posting of those ads to indicate that it isn't still sourcebook 5.

It was still called this when the current cover was advertised using the Rifts Vampires title, and it was not retracted.

Apparently 6 years ago at http://www.outsydergaming.com/2009/04/u ... books.html a Mikel Rysk referred to Bionics as SB5 but I am not sure if any of Palladium's printings acknowledged it as such.

Since the RV book itself has no mention of SB5 it does leave the door open for Palladium to retcon this and call some later book SB5 but until that happens, RV has the best argument to be called that.

[eliakon]

No, that isn't what I'm saying. There has simply been no development since the posting of those ads to indicate that it isn't still sourcebook 5.

It was still called this when the current cover was advertised using the Rifts Vampires title, and it was not retracted.

Apparently 6 years ago at http://www.outsydergaming.com/2009/04/u ... books.html a Mikel Rysk referred to Bionics as SB5 but I am not sure if any of Palladium's printings acknowledged it as such.

Since the RV book itself has no mention of SB5 it does leave the door open for Palladium to retcon this and call some later book SB5 but until that happens, RV has the best argument to be called that.

Except that it wouldn't be a 'retcon' since as I have pointed out it is not SB5. You are free to class it as such if you desire sure...
But your personal opinion has no effect on the actual status of the book

[Tor]

You didn't point out anything, you made an unsupported claim. I had 3 books call it that, my opinion's the supported one. So far we're awaiting anything else being called SB5 or an official retraction of the numerical classification.